Dick's Sporting goods issues


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lostdog
March 23, 2004, 12:05 PM
I work at dick's sporting goods part time while waiting on my LEO aplicationd to go through. I'm a CWP holder in SC, and am trained in legal uses of force. I am a criminal justice major at USCS. I've said to say that to say that I am not just some soldier of fortune who wants to run around armed. I just want to exercise my legal right.

Here is my problem-I sell guns for a living right now, and do it well. The thing is that Dick's policy is that "No employee shall have personal weapons on company property during hours of work"

1) I have a legal right to carry, mandated by the state.

2)I have had to deal with irate and threatining people who have been denied the buying of a firearm and would rather be armed.

3)I need this job.

4)There is no security on sight to deal with potential problems.

5) It is store policy to NOT put the signs on the doors forbidding CWP. They know that almost all our gun buyers carry, and have no problem with it.

6)all the guns in the store have trigger locks on them, and would take a while to load it needed.

7)The policy is "No Weapons", not "No guns"...but yet I am allowed to carry my Emerson CQC7-B to "Open Boxes"....That's a pretty strong weapon.

Now don't get me wrong, I have carried, and intend to keep on. I have yet to be "Made". I am just wodering if there is anything I can do about this unfair treatment. If I was a customer, I could bring in whatever gun I wanted, but as an employee, I can't even bore-sight my own rifle.
:cuss:

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FPrice
March 23, 2004, 12:16 PM
"If I was a customer, I good bring in whatever gun I wanted, but as an employee, I can't even bore-sight my own rifle."

I think most of us would agree that this policy sucks, but it is the store's policy and you, as an employee, are expected to follow it.

Consider that you are waiting to get into Law Enforcement. Would you really want to have to explain why you were terminated from a job for violating a firearms policy? I think that you have to remain as pure as Ceasar's wife in this instance.

How about looking at other options such as a spray, or some innocuos looking but handy striking implement? Maybe ask your supervisor about the store policy for dealing with "irate and threatining people who have been denied the buying of a firearm..." and make it clear that you have a concern. Possibly you can serve as a catalyst to get a store policy for someone in the gun section to be armed because of the possible threat.

At least they do not prohibit the general public from carrying. But I am sure that that little fact is of little confort to you in this situation.

BlackJack
March 23, 2004, 01:22 PM
Dicks is managing their liability. Their insurance company requires no employee weapons based on their assessment of the risk. If you have an AD on Dicks time/property it could cost them big time. If you shoot someone, even if justified, while on Dicks time/property it could cost them big time. Their gamble is that there is less chance that you will get hurt or that it will be cheaper to deal with if you do. That's the way things are.

What can you do about it? Vote Republican to get the judicial activists off the bench wherever they are. Work to impeach judges who enable litigiousness. Support tort reform. This takes a lot more effort and energy than most gun owners/shooters are willing to put out. Which is why things are the way they are.

We all know it cost a lot to make us free. We forget it costs to stay free.

Devonai
March 23, 2004, 01:59 PM
Do you have keys to the pistol display? If so, why not carry a full magazine in your pocket for your favorite. Better than nothing.

WonderNine
March 23, 2004, 02:05 PM
Carry anyways like most people do. :rolleyes:

Preacherman
March 23, 2004, 02:23 PM
I think Devonai's suggestion is excellent. Carry a loaded mag for a gun that you know is likely to be reliable while still unlubricated and straight out of the box - probably a Glock, SIG or Beretta, in my book. That way you're only a few seconds away from a loaded gun if the need should arise, and you haven't violated any store policies.

Also, ditto what FPrice said - one slip here and you can kiss your LE career goodbye. Ain't wuth the risk, IMHO...

hillbilly
March 23, 2004, 02:27 PM
Better yet, use your time not at work to look for a new job!

hillbilly

KMKeller
March 23, 2004, 02:34 PM
The Dick's here in NC doesn't sell handguns, only longarms. I don't know about SC though.

odd1805
March 23, 2004, 02:37 PM
.

Greg L
March 23, 2004, 02:37 PM
Do you have keys to the pistol display? If so, why not carry a full magazine in your pocket for your favorite.

I don't think that any of the Dick's that I've ventured into have any pistols for sale (perhaps a bb gun). They'll sell you ammo, cleaning supplies, & holsters (big old clunky things designed to be worn while out hunting rather than concealed under a shirt) but not the weapons to use them with.

rust collector
March 23, 2004, 02:47 PM
Sorry, Dog, but your employer has the right to dictate the terms of your employment. Taking the money but not following workplace regulations is deception.

Taking this a step further, if you become a LEO there will be many opportunities to disregard policies and procedures that are in place for a good reason. In most cases, no one will be looking over your shoulder, and you will have the opportunity to "get away with something" if you decide you are smarter than your supervisors.

Sooner or later, someone will be hurt, a BG will skate, or the department will get to explain what went wrong, because you decided not to follow the rules. If you won't follow instructions you disagree with, you'd be a whole lot better off in a different line of work.

RustyHammer
March 23, 2004, 03:06 PM
... sounds like you boss is in the wrong business.

When you get tired of walking around with a bullseye on your
back, you'll move on!

tc300mag1
March 23, 2004, 04:04 PM
Im uin same boat cant carry a gun etc etc even though i deal with sometiems lots of money for the compnay ..just rember they dont care about you just there liabilty if you get smoked there well it aint you shooting a customer so its ok

MaterDei
March 23, 2004, 04:15 PM
Because that's all I have to offer.

I work in a high rise in downtown Houston. My building is not posted so visitors/vendors etc. can legally carry. For that matter I can LEGALLY carry here too. However, like you, my company policy prohibits carrying for employees. I can either change jobs or I can carry and hope that I'm never somehow caught.

Look on the bright side. At least where you work if a bunch of BGs came in it is likely that some of your customers are carrying and can respond. Where I work we are entirely defenseless.

odd1805, you seem to have a problem with lostdog wanting to be a LEO. From my perspective the more THR LEOs, the better.

Firethorn
March 23, 2004, 04:25 PM
If they carry handguns, see if you can 'sign out' a company weapon for each shift. That way you're not carrying a <i>personal</i> weapon.

As for the exemption to the rules, it's not entirely clear if he's carried on the job. I don't carry at work because of work policies, but I carry everywhere else.

It could be that the policy pre-dates SC concealed carry, or is a 'generic' multi-state policy.

outfieldjack
March 23, 2004, 04:27 PM
I "USED" to work at the Dick's in Columbia..... And I asked the same question..... one of the managers told me there was an accidental discharge of a .22 pistol by an employee with CWP at another store that the ropund hit the floor, and then hit a customer in the leg. I think since then Dick's has had the policy of no carry by employee. Check the employee manual though and make sure it says that, and see if you had to sign the maunal. Sometimes it only takes one to ruin it for everyone else.

In SC we do not sell handguns at Dicks.

odd1805 You have 1 post so far, I hope the rest of your posts are better.... I also hope you read the "rules of conduct" before you post again..... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Eskimo Jim
March 23, 2004, 05:45 PM
I don't necessarily agree with the concept that your rights end at your employer's door. Unfortunately, many courts believe that your rights do end at someone else's doorstep.

Since you're looking for a career in law enforcement and would like to be able to own firearms in the future, it might be in your long term best interest to be a 'good' worker bee and leave your arms secured in your car or at home.

It might be in your best interest to look for employment elsewhere. You will probably find more anti gun bias at other places of employment.

What would happen if you researched work place violence stories and send them to the corporate human resources department? I've been tempted to ask HR at a previous company if they guarantee my safety while at work and when travelling to and from work since they disarm me with their rules.

-Jim

edited to correct spelling and grammar

BowStreetRunner
March 23, 2004, 05:56 PM
lostdog,
who ever said that they were managing their liability was right
thats all it is about
they have made a decision that they would rather not be sued for you shooting someone to protect yourself
simple efficient economics
you can be replaced, their money cant
i know it sucks
:fire:
good luck on your career in law enforcement lostdog!
BSR

odd5108
March 23, 2004, 06:24 PM
OK, I apologize if I was a bit too personal in regards to L-Dog’s post. However, the point that I was making is the same.
1. If you cannot respect the rights of others e.g. ignoring your company’s policies, YOU SHOULD NOT BE A LEO!
2. If you are going to do whatever you want because you feel that the rules are stupid, YOU SHOULD NOT BE A LEO!
3. A LEO must be able to operate within the confines of the Constitution, not around them.
The conduct that L-Dog has stated he engages in (carrying regardless of store policy) leads one to believe that L-Dog would be just as ready to disregard a suspect’s Constitutional rights because it was inconvenient or because it was just too much trouble. I personally have an issue with any LEO (or one who wishes to become a LEO) who cannot respect an individual’s rights. There has become an all too often trend in law enforcement to dominate, intimidate and control with little or no recourse for “The People”. An example of this is that many police officers are now referring to everyone except themselves as “civilians.” The last I checked, the police were subject to the same laws as the rest of us, unlike those in the military. In the interest of brevity I will not enumerate instances of the Jack Booted Thug mentality that many officers have begun to exhibit in the last 10 or so years, with the exception of the Hiibel case http://papersplease.org/hiibel/, but I am sure a short search of the internet or THR will give ample examples of what I mean.
I am sorry if this offends someone because I do not have enough posts to warrant respect, but the fact is if you can’t respect the rules you shouldn’t be a LEO, if someone has a problem with that then you can deal with the cop when they start stomping on your rights and repressing you.

ODD - out!

tc300mag1
March 23, 2004, 06:48 PM
Eskimo Jim I did ask our Hr person if they would provide for my safty since i drove a company van and carry cash etc etc.. she says no.. Basically she said your on your own .Since its against company to carry its a termanting offince.. Not that it stops a lot of guns from carrying at work

Standing Wolf
March 23, 2004, 06:54 PM
I'd find a better job where my civil rights are respected.

lostdog
March 23, 2004, 11:51 PM
I thank you guys for all your support and rebuke. I spoke with the manager, and she said that the policy is not to carry.....Therefore, I now have resolved to bring my G23 only when I am closing out the store alone. I will bring it in with my gunsmith gear, and leave it under the counter...It's faster than a carry anyway. There has been some gang activity in the parking lot recently and the girls who work there have had me walk them to thier car, and in those instances I have gotten my Glock from the car and carried it in my jacket pocket.......The parking lot is
SCDOT property and I can carry there.

As far as work...I am happy to report that we recieved a M59A-1 mossberg in by accident(20" bl, 9rnd mag, bayonet lug, heat shield) so I leave it with the mag loaded, and a key in the trigger lock. Legal, faster, and better.

Odd....I understand your concern. I am not offended.....I apologize if a LEO has left a bad taste in your mouth. I want to make a diffrence in peoples lives, not take away their rights. The badge will be awarded to me b/c I am a officer, I am not an officer b/c I have a badge. I will not "hide behind it" and if the government, supervisors, or my own pride ever attemp to violate the rights of a person I am sworn to protect, then I will give up my commission. I will not forget that I was once a kid getting pulled for driving stupid, a young man just getting his CWP, or now a 23yr old college freshman trying to get his foot in the door.

To clarify somethings....the CWP issue was not addressed in my hiring interview, even though every one in management new I was a pistol shooter(it was on my aplication..I do sell guns). I was CWP from day one. I just recently found out about the change, and so now I'm frustrated about it. I have NOT been blatantly violoating policy.

MaterDei
March 24, 2004, 12:05 AM
You certainly sound level headed to me and your attitude is one that I wish all LEOs had. Hopefully you'll have an impact on those around you who might feel differently.

Regarding your G23; I'm not trying to be critical but please reconsider leaving it under the counter. If you're going to bring it in the store leave it on your person. No telling who might get a hold of it under the counter. Best case you get busted by management, next best you get it stolen and worse case a child gets a hold of it.

Blue Skies,

MaterDei

lostdog
March 24, 2004, 12:35 AM
I will consider it. I refer to what I said about it being in my gear, under the counter...but only when i'm closing alone. At that time, I am the only one behind that counter, and arms reach from my gear bag at all times. This does not violate the "letter" of the policy.

Soap
March 24, 2004, 12:47 AM
I worked at a Dick's for a summer. I did not carry since I was only 19 and PA's carry laws are 21+. You guys should try working around a few million cash unarmed, now that's fun! :) Dick's is private property and your employment is not forced. So if it is worth it to you, I would do what Standing Wolf said.

Eskimo Jim
March 24, 2004, 09:16 AM
I think that you might want to check into OSHA regulations about work place safety.

The bottom line is that the courts tend to side with employers and it would take a large amount of resources to sue an employer to allow you to excercise your rights on company time. I don't agree with it, just recognizing the situation.

Good luck.

-Jim

ninjaj448
March 24, 2004, 12:55 PM
I have the same problem with my employer. Working for a major bank in Michigan, I'm held to their policy of 'no weapons of any kind on bank premises by employees'; which includes the parking lots. This was reiterated shortly after Michigan became a 'shall issue' state in July, 2001. Customers are not affected by this policy.

While there is nothing under Michigan law that states I may not carry on bank premises, the issue of company policy and treaspassing does come into play. Most employers have such a policy to protect themselves from liability hassels - my thought, anyway.

Black92LX
March 24, 2004, 01:13 PM
What about us? can't we write to corporate Dick's (umm pun not intended) and tell them that we do not like their employee policy for CCW and we will not shop there until it is changed. this has worked when it's the customers right to carry in question. so why not help our brother out, he likes his job except for one aspect. how about we each send off a letter. stating we won't shop there for any reason until the employee policy is changed.

Proctor & Gamble just recently sent out the no firearms policy (with Ohio CCW about to pass) and got me pondering this question. and now here is a situation where it could possibly be implemented.

It's my understanding that it's Corporate Policy. So why don't we write them and try to get it changed. Much like we did with Home Depot (though that was the customers side)

I am fairly new to all this gun stuff and really having to fight to keep my rights. So i could be completely off this is just my opinion.

a possibility of losing money vs. us telling them that are going to lose money if the policy isn't changed. money talks in todays society right?

sendec
March 24, 2004, 01:40 PM
People keep harping on their "rights" in the workplace. Well, the employers have "rights" also, and are well within their bounds to post regulations they deem fit in furtherance of their business interests. People keep trying to apply Constitutional logic in private matters and is does not fit. Suppose my employer enacts a policy requiring emplyees in a restaraunt to wash their hands after using the restroom, or to require the use of a particular piece of equipment. Who will argue that these are unreasonable?

You do not have a "right" to employment, or to dictate your conditions thereof, within reasonable limits. CCW is not up their with racial discrimination or unfair labor practices. If a person feels that strongly about their need to carry a weapon on the job, they should either develop a feasible plan to get the policy changed or move on.

Black92LX
March 24, 2004, 02:51 PM
but we are the ones that keep that business going. don't you think if enough CUSTOMERS express their problem with the policy it can be changed??

243_shooter
March 24, 2004, 08:44 PM
Quit, problem solved.

They have a right to set the rules for the workplace, you have the right to work somewhere else. Simple.

For gosh sakes don't leave a loaded weapon laying around, I don't see where anything but bad can come of that.

If you enjoy selling firearms and are good at it, I'd say go work for the local gunshop. Odd's are you'll not only be allowed, but encouraged to carry ;)

I made the mistake of buying a rifle at Dicks once. The clerk carried it out to my car for me :barf: From that point forward I decided that I would be willing to pay up to 30% more for a gun, rather than buy it from Dicks/Wal-Mart.

Leo

lostdog
March 25, 2004, 12:16 AM
I would be happy to get another job in the gun buisness. My problem is the job market right now.....trying to work through college and keep my GPA up isn't easy when nobody is hiring. I don't live in the land of gun shops, or I would work there. There are two shops in my area, one is over priced to the point of being criminal, and one is new and hasn't gotten his FFL yet. I will probably work there when he gets it up and running. Like I said before, I'm in the process of sending out applications, some of which have been accepted, to be a LEO......just playing the waiting game.

The reason I've posted this is to get advice from those who have changed policies at their workplace. From what I here it sound like "Untill it affacts us we don't care, work somewhere else" that is fine. But from talking to my manager, this is a step of an "Employee saftey" program that will eventually keep even customers from carrying.

243_shooter
March 25, 2004, 07:52 AM
I wish you luck in trying to get them to change the way they have the policy setup, I really do.. Getting them to actually change it would be quite an accomplishment for sure.

Keep studying, keep your GPA up, graduate, and it'll all be in your past. I don't think to many LE agencys have similar anti-carry policies :D

Leo

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