10mm Commander--should I?


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Grayrider
March 23, 2004, 02:40 PM
Fellow Tenaholics,

I have had the urge for a while to have a 10mm CCW gun. Something Commander length or a hair shorter, light frame, with all the usual bells and whistles. I could have that built for some serious cash. I could even do Titanium, but that would be even more expensive. DW promised to make one this year, but I am not sure I want that. I own a couple DWs, but they needed work. Then there is the Kimber Pro Carry in .40. I could have my smith ream the barrel, make a few other changes, and I would have an alloy framed 10mm Commander. I know, it would not last as long as steel. How much would I really shoot it, though? I have other 1911s for the range.

What do you guys think? Should I do it?

GR

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clubsoda22
March 23, 2004, 02:50 PM
you know, you could just get a witness. :D

(BLASPHEMY!)

Sean Smith
March 23, 2004, 02:56 PM
It can be done. A poster named Porter Rockwell over on 1911forum.com did that exact conversion, he got the gun to work but it took some doing. You can do a search for "Kimber 10mm" and find his posts easily enough.

Based on his experience, and what I kind of guessed anyway :D , the main problem is keeping the velocity of the lighter slide low enough to keep the gun from outrunning the ability of the magazines to bring up the next round. A good guess at mods that would help a short 10mm run right might look something like this:

EGW firing pin stop
22-24lb recoil spring & thin Heitt buffer (fat one might screw up function)
25 lb mainspring
Colt or Metalform 8-round magazines with Wolff XP mag springs

The idea is to delay unlocking to keep the slide velocity down, and use the strongest sprung magazines you can so it can tolerate the higher slide velocity better.

Grayrider
March 23, 2004, 03:13 PM
Sean,

I noticed his comments on that and dropped him a PM to see how it has held up. My smith wasn't sure the EGW stop was needed. I suppose we could start with minimal mods then add what seems necessary to ensure reliability. If I am going to carry it, I will want it to run 100%.

Witness? Heh heh....well I will get one of those again one fo these days, but that's not exactly my cup of tea...

:D

GR

Sean Smith
March 23, 2004, 03:42 PM
My smith wasn't sure the EGW stop was needed. I suppose we could start with minimal mods then add what seems necessary to ensure reliability. If I am going to carry it, I will want it to run 100%.

How many 10mm guns has your 'smith built? How much does he know about 10mm in general? In its hotter loadings 10mm about doubles the muzzle energy and nearly doubles the pressure of your basic 230gr .45 ammo. Not everybody knows how to make a 10mm that is really realiable.

Grayrider
March 23, 2004, 03:49 PM
Sean,

Would the heavier mainspring have much of an affect on trigger pull? I don't want to trade one thing for another.

Thanks!

GR

axeman_g
March 23, 2004, 04:05 PM
I like what Sean was stating about insuring your smith's 10mm experience. I am not bashing anyone, I would just be careful, not many smiths play with 10mm that I have found .. at least here in Atlanta, Ga.

On the other hand though, to play devils advocate ... if your going to put that much effort into converting a .40 kimber, why not trial a DW Razorback in Commander length? Even if it needs to be tweaked you won't run into major work, the r&d will have been done for you by DW, they will know as to what works and doesnt work. Lastly the $$ investment should be significantly less with the DW, allowing you more reserves for testing ammo. :)

Plus, you could write a great "Range Report" here on THR.

Axe

Grayrider
March 23, 2004, 04:17 PM
Is DW coming out with a 10mm RZ Commander? I was not aware of that. That would work pretty well, although the alloy weight savings sounds good.

My smith is quite skilled. No offense taken. You are both right, as 10mm fans are few enough (unfortunately) that I doubt most smiths get many requests to do such work.

GR

Robert Hairless
March 23, 2004, 06:15 PM
I've been thinking about a Commander-size 10mm too. Is the Dan Wesson available yet? If not, does anyone know when it will appear? I find it hard to get such information from their site.

I confess that I've also had fantasies of an Officers-size 10mm, but I'm feeling much better now.

agtman
March 23, 2004, 07:28 PM
Grayrider:

Unless you're really fixed on the 1911-platform for a 10mm Commander (the Witness was mentioned), there are the "Commander-sized" S&W 10mms still around - the 1076s & 1066s.

Both pistols sport a 4.25" barrel/slide, with the 1076 having the frame-mounted decocker, while the 1066 has the slide-mounted decock/safety unit. 9+1 capacity.

Grayrider
March 23, 2004, 07:34 PM
I am a diehard 1911 fan. Don't have much use for other guns, although I flirt with them from time to time. I had a 1076 and found it a reliable, accurate gun. But if I can get a 10mm 1911 to suit that role, I would be much more satisfied. I have a call into DW and will see what they are up to. I did find one person online who said they had a DW 10mm PTC, so they must have shipped some.

GR

Jspy
March 23, 2004, 07:40 PM
You might check out the DW section of the 1911 forum for more info on the 10mm's being offered.

rich2u
March 23, 2004, 08:42 PM
Just to throw in my 2 cents. I have my Delta Elite Goldcup... Bwahahaha. But if you went with a commander with an aluminum or titanium frame its gonna kick like a mule. Might be a tad bit hard to get it back on target for a 2nd shot. Course I could be wrong...:rolleyes:

Grayrider
March 23, 2004, 09:49 PM
I don't really notice the 10 recoiling much. Guess my hands are numb from shooting it so often.

:D

GR

gunfan
March 23, 2004, 09:56 PM
He'll give you the straight dope! Call him about 3:00 Eastern Time. :)

Gordy Wesen
March 23, 2004, 09:57 PM
Call Don at the Action Works in AZ.

stans
March 24, 2004, 07:21 AM
As far as I know, DW is still coming out with a Commander length 10mm. They are also planning a CCO style (Commander slide, steel Officers ACP frame) 10mm. All of these will be with steel frames for durability.

Grayrider
March 24, 2004, 01:16 PM
Looks like Lew Horton is going to be able to take care of me. I should have a 10mm DW PTC here in a short while, and a review will be forthcoming. Hopefully it will work out of the box (unlike my other DWs), but if not my smith can get it ship shape. The PTC has their Patriot features, so it should make for a pretty solid platform even if tweaking is required.

GR

George Hill
March 24, 2004, 01:38 PM
10MM Commander?


:evil:


YES!

cratz2
March 24, 2004, 01:55 PM
I personally wouldn't try to get a 10mm with an alloy slide at all... Just too much... well, just 'too much!' :D

If I were going to go the custom route for a carry gun, I'd personally probably go with a 9x23 with the 10mm a close second. Lightweight Officer sized frame and a steel Commander length slide. Brian Bilby special, esp in 10mm.

I say go for it.

cratz2
March 24, 2004, 01:59 PM
Oh... couple other things... Reasonable 10mm loadings don't take much to get used to, even in light weight guns. I'm a die hard 1911 guy but I personally feel that Glocks tend to absorb more recoil per weight than the 1911 platform and 180 Gr Georgia Arms Gold Dots aren't intolerable in the G29... should be even more controlable in a lighweight Commander.

As far as mainsprings... I've never installed a heavier mainspring, but going with a slightly lighter mainspring can work wonders for trigger pulls assuming it still reliably ignites your primers... Of course, the lighter the mainspring, the less consistant your ignition will be.

Grayrider
March 24, 2004, 02:00 PM
That 9x23 is pretty neat. My current CCW pistol will be a Pro Carry HD II in .38 Super (at least when I get the paperwork back from the sheriff). I am thinking I need to try that with 9x23 and see if it runs. Might be fun as well.

GR

nvrquit
March 24, 2004, 04:23 PM
.... why, oh why, do these wonderful new pistols begin to become available after we've comitted to building the new house and are ready to move in?!?!?

All the new makes/models of 10mm flavors and very limited discretionary funds..... AAAUUUGGHHH!!!!!!:(

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