Home Defense Shotgun: Mossberg 590 or Remington 870


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tommy.duncan
September 5, 2013, 12:15 AM
I am looking for a short barrel 12g pump for home defense. I like the Mossberg and Remington. Which one is better and more reliable? I hope I never need to use it for defense. This leads to question 2. Which one is easier to modify for hunting purposes?
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Uniquedot
September 5, 2013, 12:31 AM
The 870 is easier to modify as it offers many more options, but as far as reliability either one is reliable. Your best bet is to handle each one to see which one fits you better and find out your preference of control locations. The safety on the 870 is much quicker to operate if you are right handed as it doesn't require altering your grip at all, but I like the location of the slide release on the Mossberg. You might also have a preference for one elevator type over the other.

P.B.Walsh
September 5, 2013, 12:44 AM
I am coming at this from a biased view, but my 590A1 (just a dressed up 590) is very natural with it's controls and operation. The pumping action can be a bit rough and requires some pressure to pump, but has lessened with just under a hundred rounds. I am absolutely happy with my 590A1, wouldn't trade!

You can do just about anything to either shotgun, my nearest Academy sells replacement barrels for the 500/590 series.

That said, a used 870 is a proven shotgun.

frankenstein406
September 5, 2013, 01:10 AM
Go mossberg, I would only use a 870 for hd if the mim extractor was changed out.

DeMilled
September 5, 2013, 01:17 AM
Hickok45 put together a informal comparison video that's worth watching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vaa6wsw7Ts

DeMilled
September 5, 2013, 01:24 AM
If you like how the 870 feels and prefer it over the 590 you can change out the extractor in a couple minutes.

http://www.rem870.com/2012/10/16/remington-870-non-mim-machined-extractor/

Texan Scott
September 5, 2013, 02:41 AM
Tommy, the 870 is a heavier gun... it soaks up a bit more recoil, but it's a bit more to carry all day on your shoulder.

For me, it'd be the 870, because I don't hunt with a shotgun. If I did, it'd be the 590. Either one, however, will probably do well enough for twice-a-year or God-forbid-ever. Both have a following, and for good reason; either's a fine gun.

Get what's available to you at a good price, and put enough birdshot through it to prove it works and make it second nature. You can't go too far wrong either way.

Be safe.

Lone Star
September 5, 2013, 04:17 AM
You might just buy an older M-870 Wingmaster and install a slug barrel or short riot barrel. I don't trust the parts and work in the current Express.

Frankly, I'm leery of all modern Remington products, inc. their ammo.

Old Unc'
September 5, 2013, 04:17 AM
personally, a Mossberg 500 for me...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HS41ewsltvQ/UgPFsIPqCLI/AAAAAAAAd0M/r-amMZQpD9s/s912/photo%25203%2520%25281%2529.JPG

tnxdshooter
September 5, 2013, 04:20 AM
personally, a Mossberg 500 for me...

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HS41ewsltvQ/UgPFsIPqCLI/AAAAAAAAd0M/r-amMZQpD9s/s912/photo%25203%2520%25281%2529.JPG

Same here

http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o685/dsclaiborne35/facebook_-862592537jpg_zpsd964e741.jpg

http://i1338.photobucket.com/albums/o685/dsclaiborne35/facebook_726704478jpg_zps769d7127.jpg

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

Old Unc'
September 5, 2013, 04:24 AM
great minds think alike!! ;)

tnxdshooter
September 5, 2013, 04:25 AM
Secondly,

If you like the 870 style safety then get a Maverick 88. Its basically a mossberg 500 only with a cross bolt safety like the 870. Plus, the mavericks are usually around 220 tax and all. I know the academy sports here always runs them for 189.99 to 199.99.

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

tnxdshooter
September 5, 2013, 04:28 AM
great minds think alike!! ;)

Damn right

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

lemaymiami
September 5, 2013, 07:37 AM
If possible handle both makes in short barrel configuration and work the safety on each before that first purchase. When a daily carry shotgun was part of my life I always had the option of drawing one or the other from our arsenal (small/medium police agency). Over the years I came to prefer the Remington -it felt more solid and I much preferred their safety... I was always worried that under stress I might clear the safety on the Mossberg before I should. Can't remember how many times I pointed a shotgun at someone on the street and never disengaged the safety. My trigger finger was always on the safety instead.... I had great confidence that I could operate safely yet be ready to fire in an instant with the 870... Most of our shotguns were beaten up rack grade specimens but nothing rules a close quarters situation like a shotgun.....

Fred Fuller
September 5, 2013, 08:57 AM
They're pretty much a tossup in terms of reliability IMHO.

Durability, long term (and I mean over a couple of generations) the Remington probably has a slight edge - ask again in another 20 years or so :D

As to ease of converting to a hunting/sporting gun, Remington is easier in that regard, with a vast number of factory spare barrels and other accessories available.

tnxdshooter
September 5, 2013, 09:26 AM
If possible handle both makes in short barrel configuration and work the safety on each before that first purchase. When a daily carry shotgun was part of my life I always had the option of drawing one or the other from our arsenal (small/medium police agency). Over the years I came to prefer the Remington -it felt more solid and I much preferred their safety... I was always worried that under stress I might clear the safety on the Mossberg before I should. Can't remember how many times I pointed a shotgun at someone on the street and never disengaged the safety. My trigger finger was always on the safety instead.... I had great confidence that I could operate safely yet be ready to fire in an instant with the 870... Most of our shotguns were beaten up rack grade specimens but nothing rules a close quarters situation like a shotgun.....

Sounds like the 870s we have at work.

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

jmr40
September 5, 2013, 10:12 AM
I prefer the 870. The 590 is definately a step up from a 500 and would be my choice if I wanted a Mossberg.

PabloJ
September 5, 2013, 10:28 AM
In practical terms new 590 cost as much as very, very nice second hand Wingmaster. Unless you're going to knock doors down with the thing get nicely polished Remington with short barrel. LGS had 12ga Wingmaster Upland Special with short choke tube barrel for $500. That gun was head and shoulders above Mossberg 590.

Madcap_Magician
September 5, 2013, 10:50 AM
I prefer the Mossberg purely on the basis of its control locations being more ergonomic- the action release lever is located behind the trigger guard instead of in front of it, which means I can keep my grip on the stock without having to move my hand to open the action. And the safety is located for thumb access on the back of the stock instead of a toggle bolt safety behind the trigger guard, so the safety can be rapidly flipped off without changing shooting position.

evan price
September 5, 2013, 11:00 AM
The mossberg is my choice. Dont limit yourself to a 590, the 500 is great too, just only have two mag options, but barrels are plentiful and no tools to change.

PabloJ
September 5, 2013, 03:31 PM
The mossberg is my choice. Dont limit yourself to a 590, the 500 is great too, just only have two mag options, but barrels are plentiful and no tools to change.
For civilian the 500 is lighter and less expensive making it a better choice. The 590 is 'Jarhead' proof weapon though (they are rather hard on equipment they use).

Delford
September 5, 2013, 10:21 PM
Matt I understand where you are coming from but I just bought a used 870 with the extension tube from my LGS. Someone must have traded for something more elegant because it may have never been fired and it was nearly $100 off the new price. It was made in Illion, NY and was very stiff. I oiled it with gun oil to loosen up the action. After 50 rounds at the farm I took it home and washed it down with WD40. Now it loads and cycles smoothly and will soon get at least 50 more rounds through it at the farm real soon. It comes to the target just like a friend's wood version he changed from a 28" to a 18" barrel. It had some miles on it tho I don't know when it was made. I put 100 rounds thru it a few weeks ago and had a ball. My black version is as accurate and fun to shoot as his. It fits like it was made for me and at HD ranges I just can't miss. Now I have to see if I can shoot skeet at the farm with it or my brother in law's 1100. I know the short barrel isn't for skeet but I like a challenge :-)

tommy.duncan
September 5, 2013, 11:35 PM
I want to thank all those who responded. I really appreciate all the advice. Now I gotta go to all those gun stores and start handling all those shotguns...Damn!!

leadcounsel
September 5, 2013, 11:56 PM
Ford v. Chevy.

I have and rely on both shotguns. Main difference is the Mossy is aluminum and abit lighter for all day carry. The safety location on the Mossy would be more difficult to operate with a pistol grip, but easier in my view for a rifle grip.

wunderkind
September 6, 2013, 10:35 AM
The Mossy has some advantages for defense or combat that make absolutely no difference for hunting or gaming.

*in battery, the shell lifter is out of the way
*you don't have to break your firing grip to operate the safety
*ambi safety by design
*intuitive safety--push the button in the direction you want the shot charge or slug to go
*two extractors. Not that the Remmy's 1 is a huge issue, but built-in redundancy is not a bad thing
*6-shot sidesaddles fit without modifying the slide
*you don't have to break a firing grip to release the action

In my experience, newer shooters or folks that don't shoot much seem to like the Mossy. Those who grew up around firearms & were handed their grandpa's 870 when they were 10 prefer Remington. No science there, just observation.

Either is customizable up-the-wazoo. Lights, slings, forends, stocks, sky's the limit either way.

LeonCarr
September 6, 2013, 11:06 AM
Right handed - Remington 870
Southpaw or Ambidextrous - Mossberg 590 due to tang safety location

Either one, in bone stock confirguration, will handle 99% of the social situations you will ever encounter.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

jim243
September 6, 2013, 12:33 PM
Now I gotta go to all those gun stores and start handling all those shotguns...Damn!

Yep, shotguns are like cars, some like sports cars, some like sedans, some like SUVs, some trucks. An AR is an AR, but a shotgun is much more personal.

Good luck I am sure you will find what you like.

Jim


My choice. (Weatherby 549)
http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt284/bigjim_02/SAM_0826.jpg (http://s620.photobucket.com/user/bigjim_02/media/SAM_0826.jpg.html)

GTR done
September 7, 2013, 12:43 PM
Mossberg sells a combo gun, comes with 18 & 28 inch barrels. Big 5 in california has them on sale every few months. The cheapest is a blued finish, goes for $300. Neither barrel has modular chokes though.
Once or twice a year, they will have a sale on the Mossberg 500 camoflage combo. I just picked that up. Sale price is $370. The long barrel is ported and has 3 choke tubes. It has an adjustable trigger. All parts have the Realtree camo finish on them.
I hope to shoot it this weekend. For $70 more, its a good deal.

ElToro
September 7, 2013, 01:06 PM
the inherent design flaw of the moss 500 is the safety when racking that slide hard it can be jarred loose into safe. not a good thing to happen during high stress situations. a mere annoyance when shooting skeet doubles. i got rid of my 500 because it happened about every other shot and i didnt want to remove the safety altogether.

i just picked up an Ilion made 870 express with wood furniture for 200 used. heck that chokes 28 inch barrel is worth 125$. older wingmasters can be found in the 300 range. i'd prefer the chrome bolt and metal trigger guard assembly, magnum receiver optional

evan price
September 7, 2013, 03:38 PM
El Toro, you had a problem with your safety. I own and shoot mossbergs, I have *never* seen that problem. The only way I could envision it would be under recoil, the safety pops back and that would only happen if the ball detent mechanism was worn or had parts missing.

WALKERs210
September 7, 2013, 03:52 PM
Last year I purchased a youth model 870 in 20ga for my grandson. One thing I liked about it was the adapters that mount on butt to either shorten or lengthen. My wife and her first (late) husband never even allowed a bb gun in their home. That was then this is now, tease her that she now has Alabama mud on her and it don't wash off. Her go to HD gun is a Mossberg 500C with a pistol grip, no other bells and whistles but I did add a flashlight on tube just in case of. Recently I picked up another 500C that has the breacher barrel, pressure switched light, reflex sight mounted on rail on top of receiver. The Mossberg has been around I think since he beginning of time, easy to operate and like others have said I think the safety on top of tang is the best. But everyone has their own preference. I recently visited a gun shop in Hoover Al that will rent anything from pistols, rifles and full auto. I like this because the wife can rent, try out a different model without having to buy it and then find out its not what you thought it would be. Wish I had found a place like this many years ago, would have saved a lot of money in the long run.

Kuyong_Chuin
September 7, 2013, 05:03 PM
You might want to check out the Stevens security combo http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/7-G19490 you are getting two guns in one at less than half the price of one Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 combo. Take the extra $260 and buy more ammo or a second Stevens combo and still have money left over for a box or two of ammo.

tnxdshooter
September 7, 2013, 05:48 PM
the inherent design flaw of the moss 500 is the safety when racking that slide hard it can be jarred loose into safe. not a good thing to happen during high stress situations. a mere annoyance when shooting skeet doubles. i got rid of my 500 because it happened about every other shot and i didnt want to remove the safety altogether.

i just picked up an Ilion made 870 express with wood furniture for 200 used. heck that chokes 28 inch barrel is worth 125$. older wingmasters can be found in the 300 range. i'd prefer the chrome bolt and metal trigger guard assembly, magnum receiver optional

I've never had that happen even with shooting it fast not have I ever heard of that happening. Nor do I believe its ever happened.

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.

ElToro
September 7, 2013, 05:58 PM
I've never had that happen even with shooting it fast not have I ever heard of that happening. Nor do I believe its ever happened.

Sent from my mind using ninja telepathy.
calling me a liar ? thanks. i bought the 500 NIB with a 28 inch barrel i was doing a lot of skeet shooing with it. granted i never sent it to the maker for a fix, multiple shops recommended drilling it out and going with no safety. i didnt think that was a great idea. i could demonstrate making it pop off just under heavy racking during dry fire. maybe i had a lemon. regardless i got rid of it and i still think its a poor design. glad you have good luck with yours

Uniquedot
September 7, 2013, 07:41 PM
I'd go with the Moss for one reason only, the top tang safety where you can positively see it and operate with the thumb, keeping the trigger finger on standby.

The problem with that is that in a defense situation you should never be looking at the gun as your eyes should always be looking in the direction of the threat...exactly where it's pointing. Ask any bird hunter and they'll tell ya that if you look back at the gun while swinging at your dinner it's likely gonna fly away after the shot.


*you don't have to break your firing grip to operate the safety

Now that's exactly the problem that I do have with the mossberg. There is absolutely no way to disengage the safety from the firing position without breaking your grip. Now if you push it off before the gun hits your shoulder all is well, but then you may be pointing a loaded shotgun RTF at the wrong person. Take an 870 and put a snap cap in it and point the shotgun at your pretend target and push the safety off and pull the trigger. It's so fast that you can only hear the hammer shove the firing pin into the false primer. You never hear the safety click off.

I do like my 500 with it's security barrel as it's very light with it's thin walled barrel and aluminum frame. It's become a favorite camp gun as well as a home defense weapon. I picked up a 20" barrel for it as well that can serve some hunting purposes as well as home defense, but in my opinion that barrel is just a bit too heavy for a defense barrel. Someone that prefers the mossberg controls, but wants a gun to serve for hunting and defense might wanna look into the 500 instead of the 590 series as there are many more barrel options and if one wanted a heavy walled barrel he/she could cut off a standard 28" barrel and end up with a truly heavy walled barrel.

Uniquedot
September 7, 2013, 07:49 PM
the inherent design flaw of the moss 500 is the safety when racking that slide hard it can be jarred loose into safe. not a good thing to happen during high stress situations. a mere annoyance when shooting skeet doubles. i got rid of my 500 because it happened about every other shot and i didnt want to remove the safety altogether.

Something was definitely wrong there. It could have been missing the detent ball and spring or just the ball. I suppose it could also just be the crappy plastic safeties they put on them that allowed the detent ball to get away. I saw a post on another forum where the safety failed and when the detent ball fell into the action it got caught in the workings and ripped the bottom of the frame off his 500! now that's something you wont ever have to worry about with a steel framed gun. I replaced the safety on my 500 with a steel safety button and have a great deal of confidence in it although the design is not as sturdy overall as a crossbolt safety...that's just plain to see when you break them down and compare the two.

Bobson
September 7, 2013, 09:21 PM
The only 870 I'd take would need to be the Police model, built in 2003 or earlier. Funny thing is, if I actually found one in great shape, it was be an easy primary choice. Else I'd take a 590A1.

Bobson
September 7, 2013, 09:30 PM
the inherent design flaw of the moss 500 is the safety when racking that slide hard it can be jarred loose into safe. not a good thing to happen during high stress situations. a mere annoyance when shooting skeet doubles. i got rid of my 500 because it happened about every other shot and i didnt want to remove the safety altogetherWhat the heck are you talking about? Please cite your published source about this "inherent design flaw," and if it's just you or really an "I heard," let us know that too. I think that's utter nonsense...
I've never heard of that either. Something this serious wouldn't just be noted as a "design flaw." If true, it would be fixed, or the firearm wouldn't be anywhere near as popular as it is.

ElToro
September 7, 2013, 11:50 PM
It's not "something I heard" It happened on my mossberg and I could reproduce it multiple times and demonstrated it to gun Shop people. So maybe I got a lemon and its " not an inherent design flaw". So yes on my sample size of 1, I have an opinion. I think the 500 is crap. Take it or leave it. It's my opinion. For basically the same money you can have an 870. And I have several and have never had a problem with any of mine

hatwerinrednek
September 8, 2013, 12:21 AM
870 for me

Uniquedot
September 8, 2013, 01:08 AM
This bird hunter left the cross-bolt safety on a few times. His thumb likes tang.

Perhaps you do, but I'll bet your eyes aren't watching your thumb (or looking at the safety) whilst you're swinging on your target.


I think the 500 is crap. Take it or leave it. It's my opinion.

Did you ever completely disassemble the gun to inspect it? The way the safety works on the 500 a piece of trash lodged atop the bolt might could cause that problem. I have used and owned a few since the early 80's and have always considered them next to total garbage, but the one I have now has become a favored gun especially since they've quietened up the darn things. It still ain't an 870 for sure, but I like it a lot.

ElToro
September 8, 2013, 04:08 AM
The "L" shaped hook that hangs under the thumb safety on the inside of the gun was not obstructed. Whatever. It was 15+ years ago. It happened on my specimen and I got rid of it and moved on. Just telling you all why I won't own another. I hope you get great service out of yours.

If anybody interested who thinks im exaggerating the truth, I will gladly PM name of the gun shop in San Jose CA and the manager who still works there will confirm the problem on that particular gun.

Uniquedot
September 8, 2013, 07:15 PM
No ElToro, we'll ignore The Bull as you suggested.

I don't know why people are doubting the man or more bluntly calling him a liar. The mossbergs have a tang type safety except there is no tang so they are top mounted receiver safeties. If anything at all is loose or missing (spring or detent ball) inertia can very easily cause the problem he stated and that is quite simple to understand.

Uniquedot
September 8, 2013, 08:01 PM
El Toro means The Bull which is what he laid down: "the inherent design flaw of the moss 500 is the safety when racking that slide hard it can be jarred loose into safe."


And he he stated this in a later post.

So maybe I got a lemon and its " not an inherent design flaw". So yes on my sample size of 1, I have an opinion.

ElToro
September 9, 2013, 01:54 AM
El Toro means The Bull which is what he laid down:

"the inherent design flaw of the moss 500 is the safety when racking that slide hard it can be jarred loose into safe."

That's why and that's all.
Friend. Take the bolt out of your 500 And you can clearly see what I'm talking about. Sorry I didn't use the word you prefered I used. I know what happened in my 500 and that's that. As I have said before I can give anybody here te phone number of a gun shop that's been in business many years and you can discuss with the manager if this happened or not as he witnessed it. Sorry I don't have the names and numbers of the random guys that saw it on the skeet field.

And shlock means cheap and inferior so I guess we're even. I have been on this website for 10+ years and never had my integrity questioned. Especially when another member clearly states what I am saying can happen. You've been here what ? 7 months.

Inebriated
September 9, 2013, 03:13 AM
OP, there have been thousands of threads on this topic. Go handle them and buy your favorite. It's that simple. If you stay on the internet too long, you'll find that every 870 is rusted out and every 500 has a weak and warped receiver. Just pick one and go shoot it.

What the heck are you talking about? Please cite your published source about this "inherent design flaw," and if it's just you or really an "I heard," let us know that too. I think that's utter nonsense...
In the post that you quoted, he said that the issue happened to him.
No ElToro, we'll ignore The Bull as you suggested.
He told you how you could verify. As emotionally-invested in this as you appear to be, why would you not follow-up on it?

mgkdrgn
September 9, 2013, 07:57 PM
tomatto --- tomahtto

which one is on sale?

sappyg
September 9, 2013, 08:21 PM
Here is a video of what ElToro has mentioned about his safety.

http://youtu.be/I6ZC-UJydvo

ElToro
September 9, 2013, 09:18 PM
That's exactly what would happen. Even the guy in the video says its known to happen. Thanks for finding video evidence of the malfunction. Obviously not a design flaw, merely a feature of the weapon. Apparently it wasn't me just making it up.

I'm sure there are 870 haters that can find a video of it failing and that's cool too. It has just never happened on my 870s.

Mat, not doormat
September 9, 2013, 09:39 PM
I'd suggest the Mossberg. The central safety is in a more natural position to me, and if in trying to load it in a hurry, you don't lock a shell into the magazine, it'll just fall on the floor. Remingtons, on the other hand, have the annoying habit of getting them stuck behind the carrier, thus tying the gun up.

Oh, and while there may be some more aftermarket toys for the 870, it's not like there's a shortage of options for the Mossberg, either. Do you really need 57 different choices for a forearm? Or will 43 do?

Uniquedot
September 10, 2013, 12:54 AM
Here is a video of what ElToro has mentioned about his safety.

Looks like that gentleman had more problems than just the safety and that's a relatively new model. The first thing I did to mine was upgrade the safety and have been trying to decide whether or not the trigger group is worth upgrading. I'm an 870 guy though and I understand when comparing the two that the Mossbergs were never manufactured to be as fine a gun as an 870 is. A 590 is closer to the quality of an 870 than is the 500, but still it isn't an 870 either.

b.thomas
September 10, 2013, 07:08 AM
It's a crap shoot as either gun will do just fine. See which one you can get the best deal on and fells good when you handle it.:D

evan price
September 10, 2013, 07:42 AM
Currently own a large number of Mossbergs. Shoot the crap out of them often. I like to buy cheap beat up ones and clean them up and shoot them. I have *never* seen that malfunction. I did point how it might happen, but it's never happened to me and I shot everything including magnum 3" 15-pellet buckshot and heavy slugs.

Let's not fight about it, mossberg vs 870 is one of those glock vs HK things. As long as you like it, shoot it well, and can afford it, buy it.

ElToro
September 10, 2013, 10:59 AM
Looks like that gentleman had more problems than just the safety and that's a relatively new model. The first thing I did to mine was upgrade the safety and have been trying to decide whether or not the trigger group is worth upgrading. I'm an 870 guy though and I understand when comparing the two that the Mossbergs were never manufactured to be as fine a gun as an 870 is. A 590 is closer to the quality of an 870 than is the 500, but still it isn't an 870 either.
Nobody should have to upgrade anything on a NIB gun. That's like the old days When people would say send your NIB colt 1911 off to a smith to make it run. Agreed, have spent too much time on this issue.

Like any gun you intend to bet your life on, Buy the one you prefer and run it a lot to make sure it's reliable with your choice of ammo.

Uniquedot
September 10, 2013, 08:09 PM
I have *never* seen that malfunction.

The reason you haven't seen it is because you haven't operated one with a broken or missing piece. The guy in that video obviously fell victim to poor QC as the only way it could have happened is if the detent ball, spring or plate were missing...or the darn thing could have just not been tightened up when it left the factory and the ball escaped as a result. Still would like to know why his trigger broke though. You say you have lots of experience with these guns? do you keep the safeties stock? I'd be interested in knowing how often the plastic safeties fail or if the failure is the result of a loose screw causing the ball to get away. I use thread locker on mine, but I also upgraded it to steel.

Nobody should have to upgrade anything on a NIB gun.

I've read a lot of threads where people say the 870 express extractors need replacing as soon as you the gun with one for a wingmaster or police model. Most folks claim the 500 safety should be replaced before relying on it So I guess if you're interest is in the 500 or the 870 express you will need to upgrade one part or the other in order to make it work.

ElToro
September 10, 2013, 09:22 PM
Agreed re: the 870 extractor. I guess I've been lucky with mine

Uniquedot
September 10, 2013, 09:49 PM
Agreed re: the 870 extractor. I guess I've been lucky with mine

I do have one express, but it probably hasn't been fired ten times so I couldn't say whether the extractor can be relied on. I like the wingmasters and I can say for sure that the extractors don't fail in those guns. I usually like to keep a few spare parts for my guns on hand, but I don't think I've ever felt the need to keep anything on hand for my Wingmasters.

Inebriated
September 10, 2013, 10:18 PM
FWIW, my 2011 Express has several thousand rounds through it, and has had no extractor problems. The only issue I had was feeding, which was solved by upgrading to the WM/P Carrier Dog spring.

JShirley
September 10, 2013, 11:19 PM
I prefer a Mossberg safety, but I have a Mossberg bolt-action that "safes" itself after a shot. Been meaning to send it in to Mossberg for repair for, oh, 9 years.

John

evan price
September 11, 2013, 04:48 AM
@ uniquedot-
Have only seen broken safety (plastic) twice. Once on a gun that was a $99 pawn shop special that also had.a broken trigger housing...not the guard, the entire housing, the mainspring would pop out the back with a chunk of housing...plus muzzle was.dented....was obviously dropped.
The second is one I broke from overtightening the screw.

skypirate7
September 11, 2013, 03:31 PM
I'm a Remington 870 owner. It's a good gun except for the finish. The finish is absolute garbage and prone to rusting. I have to wipe it down after every time I touch it, otherwise it'll get tiny spots of orange.

For this reason, I now recommend people get Mossberg 590's. The Remington 870 is reliable but unless you get a premium model (ex: stainless or Police) you'll curse the finish.

When it came time to buy a .308 rifle, I went with a Savage instead of Remington. You get more gun for your money when you buy from Remington's competitors. With Remington, you're paying a premium for the name and getting a slightly inferior product.

If you do buy Remington, it's not a disaster... just keep an oiled cloth handy. You'll need it.

Uniquedot
September 11, 2013, 05:06 PM
The second is one I broke from overtightening the screw.

Well I suppose the good thing about the steel button is that you would be able to twist the screw off before you could ever break the button. I tried three different types and I actually liked the feel of the aluminum as well as the plastic buttons better, but stayed with the steel for what I felt would be indestructible.

It's a good gun except for the finish. The finish is absolute garbage and prone to rusting.

My boy bought one of the camo express guns and the darn thing was coated in what looked and felt like that heat shrink camo stuff. I even took a knife and cut a small piece of it away before we painted it black. It holds up well as it can't rust from touching it, but if you don't like camo you have to pay for duracoat. I like the wingmasters because they are mirror polished (or at least used to be) and therefore they don't rust easily, but any blued steel gun will rust from salty sweaty hands if not kept cleaned and oiled. I have to keep my 500 well oiled as the rougher finish on the magazine tube and barrel holds sweat and/or moisture easily. I thought about duracoating it, but I like blued finishes.

Uniquedot
September 11, 2013, 05:15 PM
I prefer a Mossberg safety, but I have a Mossberg bolt-action that "safes" itself after a shot. Been meaning to send it in to Mossberg for repair for, oh, 9 years.

Depending on the model it likely uses the same safety components as the 500 does. You could probably order the parts to repair it much cheaper than you could pay postage to send the gun in.

Inebriated
September 11, 2013, 05:28 PM
My Express never had issues with rust, but I did notice a massive difference in the finish when I started using Frog Lube. When properly applied, the finish looks brand new for months. With CLP, it would dry in about two or three weeks.

If you've got rust issues, I'd suggest giving Frog Lube a try. After you call and see if Remington will replace it, of course. I have had excellent CS experiences with Remington.

PJSprog
September 12, 2013, 05:58 PM
I have owned one of each for many years now, and have had zero failures from either one. The Mossberg 500 is set up as an HD weapon with 18.5" bbl and pistol grips, and the Remington 870 puts meat in the freezer. I'd feel comfortable grabbing either one to remedy a HD situation.

s9601694
September 13, 2013, 04:26 PM
You might just buy an older M-870 Wingmaster and install a slug barrel or short riot barrel. I don't trust the parts and work in the current Express.

Frankly, I'm leery of all modern Remington products, inc. their ammo.
Exactly what i did. I had an old 12ga wingmaster, rough around the edges. Bought a 18.5" mossberg built (!) 870 replacement barrel (Mossberg model 90335) and dropped it in. Bought a magazine extender (http://www.cdnninvestments.com/remo87018mae.html) and done!

It looks pretty badass and it is a never failing, always reliable gun. I have never ever had a problem with it and I almost feel sorry for the idiot that decides to break into my house! I only want to add a light.

The only picture i could find is this one. The gun closet i was building at the time in my old house. The 870 is (obviously) the second from the top.

http://i996.photobucket.com/albums/af89/s9601694/d2a6ab48.jpg (http://s996.photobucket.com/user/s9601694/media/d2a6ab48.jpg.html)

s9601694
September 13, 2013, 04:42 PM
But i also used to have a 18.5" barreled Mossberg 590A1 (model 51517)

I sold it to fund another project.. I learned the hard way NEVER to sell a gun. I miss that mossberg, it was so bad ass

I am going to one day buy the exact same model back.

Hunter125
September 14, 2013, 10:21 AM
My circa 2001 Express has many thousands of rounds through it. If I had to take a guess I'd say I'm pushing 9k. I have never had a failure, never had the extractor break. The gun slicked up the more I used it and is way smoother than my dad's Express bought a couple years later. He doesn't shoot it near as much as I do and has never detail cleaned iy like I do. The only thingine chokes on are aluminum cases. Doesn't eject them well, not sure why. So I just buy brass and all is well.

s9601694
January 5, 2014, 10:44 AM
193217 this is my wingmaster. Don't know how old it is, bought it off of someone at a great price. I put a 18.5 barrel, mag extender and a tactical light on it. Has never failed me at the range and I am confident it won't fail me when I need to use it on a bad guy.

Fishbed77
January 5, 2014, 11:22 PM
But i also used to have a 18.5" barreled Mossberg 590A1 (model 51517)

I sold it to fund another project.. I learned the hard way NEVER to sell a gun. I miss that mossberg, it was so bad ass

I am going to one day buy the exact same model back.

s9601694,

I just beat you to it. I picked up this two weeks ago as a Christmas present to myself. So far, it's proving to be a fantastic shotgun. I was glad to find one - it seems like the 20" M590A1s are all over the place, but the 18.5" versions are as rare as hens' teeth around here. The balance of the 18.5" heavy barrel feels just right, and I'm really digging the ghost ring sights - I find them to be every bit as fast as a bead.

I've been a Remington shotgun guy in the past, but so far, I'm finding this shotgun to be considerably better than any 870 Express I've encountered, and every bit the equal to an 870 Police in terms of quality.

Actually, I may like the M590A1 better than the 870 Police, due to the balance and the awesome sights. The only downside at all is the poorly-molded corncob foreend, but I will be replacing that soon with a Magpul foreend and Inforce weapon-mounted light.

http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff427/Fishbed77/DSC_1225_zpsf51fd058.jpg

Grunt
January 6, 2014, 01:18 AM
Of course, you could just make this simple and own both. :evil:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q236/USMCGruntUSAFCATM/Firearms/Shotguns/DCP_2022.jpg (http://s137.photobucket.com/user/USMCGruntUSAFCATM/media/Firearms/Shotguns/DCP_2022.jpg.html)

The Mossberg M590 was what was thee standard issue shotgun when I first went into the Marines back in 1988. The Remington 870 is in the same dress when I first came back into the USAFR back in 2004.
Now the Mossberg I think has a better safety location but the plastic button is breakage prone and I swap mine out with a metal version. They are also easier to work on and in some ways are more prone to longer life than the 870. I say this because when I was at Hurlburt Field, we had 10 old 870 shotguns that were some EARLY 870 shotguns! The problem was that the shell catches were replaced so many times over the years that there was very little metal on the receiver left available for future restaking jobs if the catches needed to be replaced. Same goes for an ejector. Just how does a user replace this? It ain't easy and generally requires a trip back to the factory. The Mossberg doesn't have these problems. Another thing I like about the Mossberg is the lifter rides against the bolt. If a shell jumps the catches, the round falls out on the ground. In a Remington, a shell winds up on the lifter. If you have a newer Remington with the flex tab, it's not a big deal. With older guns, you have to take the gun apart or cut a slot in the lifter so you can run the shell back into the magazine tube with a knife blade. I have one 870 that I modified in this manner and it does work but like I said, it's not even an issue with the Mossberg.
Now the Remington does have a more solid feel and not nearly as "rattley" as the Mossberg. There are also scads of aftermarket parts for the 870 as well for the guys that have to modify them. The Mossberg is no slouch in this area as well, but the Remington still has more offerings. If you want to use a pistol grip design, the safety button of the 870 is far more friendly than the tang mounted safety of the Mossberg.
Really, you aren't going to go wrong with either one. Both are reliable, rugged and combat tested over the years. Just go ahead and get both, I did and am very happy with both designs....along with an Ithaca 37, Winchester Defender, and even a Norchester 1897 trench gun if you want a few more options to think about.;)

gamestalker
January 6, 2014, 01:40 AM
I have 870's that are quite old, and also some that are newer, brand new actually. All of them have functioned without a single break down, flawlessly functioned would be an appropriate description. I did buy a new one back in the mid 90's that had a bad barrel, so I guess that isn't exactly flawless.

On the other hand I've had two 500's, both were decent SG's, but certainly not trouble free like my 870's have been. And the 500's don't have that slick positive feel when you rack a round in, always stiff and rough. I also had problems with the 500's getting locked up if I didn't rack them with enough authority.

Then there is the, which one is easier to break down for cleaning, 870 wins that hands down.

And after market up grades are easy to come by for the 870's, also easy to do your self too. I think I read or heard that more 870's have been sold, than all other SG's combined.

GS

Grunt
January 6, 2014, 11:58 AM
I agree that when it comes to taking down a Mossberg, it's a little more tricky since the shell catches will fall out every time then you have to hold them in place while you put the trigger group back in whereas the 870 doesn't have that problem as these parts are staked in place. However, as I said earlier, a shell catch wears out on a Mossberg, you drop in a new one. Wear out a shell catch on an 870 and you need to restake a new one in place....and there is a finite number of times you can do this! Now the average shooter will probably never have to replace enough shell catches that this will ever be an issue during their lifetime but it still is something that is a flaw in the 870 design in my opinion. Same goes for an ejector. Replace an ejector in a Mossberg is as simple as turning a screw where the 870 is a factory repair job that has to be staked in place.
The 870 is smoother than the Mossberg but that being said, I have a WELL WORN Mossberg M500APT I got years ago that is actually pretty slick these days. It's just a matter of how many cases of shells you are going to run through a Mossberg before they get slicked up. Then again, all of my Remingtons pale in comparison to my Ithaca M37 when it comes to the "slick" department.;)

gamestalker
January 7, 2014, 01:03 AM
My Brother in law has an Ithaca M37, and I agree those are a fine SG.

I have a old Wingmaster, 2-3/4" chamber, 28" VR from the mid 70's. I can rack the slide all the way back, and with the SG sitting on the recoil pad, barrel vertical, I can't pick that SG up without the action sliding smoothly shut. I've probably got at least 6 thousand rounds through it, mostly trap & skeet loads and dove and quail loads. But it has seen more than just a few turkey hunts over the years too. And since that was the first SG I started reloading for, and considering how inexpensive it was to load SG back then, it has likely had far more than 6k. Which brings to the conversation how well a Mec 600 Jr holds up, and how slick they get with age and use.

GS

Inebriated
January 7, 2014, 02:34 AM
I've never liked Mossbergs. They work, but I don't like them.
Mine: Awaits Inforce WML and Wilson extension. Also, bolt has been polished since this photo was taken.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2863/10859309946_3114d48525_c.jpg (http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2863/10859309946_cf44949bcb_o.jpg)

jimsouth
January 7, 2014, 05:35 AM
I know someone who cycled a round ( slug ) in his 500 in the house - which is really something you shouldn't do - but people do; and it fired into the floor the second the round was racked, and took out about 2 inches of concrete. Jesus

jon86
January 7, 2014, 06:48 AM
I like my mossberg. If I had a remington I'd probably like it just as well.

Fishbed77
January 7, 2014, 12:22 PM
Oops - double post.

Fishbed77
January 7, 2014, 12:25 PM
I have 870's that are quite old, and also some that are newer, brand new actually. All of them have functioned without a single break down, flawlessly functioned would be an appropriate description.

On the other hand I've had two 500's, both were decent SG's, but certainly not trouble free like my 870's have been. And the 500's don't have that slick positive feel when you rack a round in, always stiff and rough. I also had problems with the 500's getting locked up if I didn't rack them with enough authority


...and the last two Remington 870s I've handled extensively (an Express Tactical and an Express Super Magnum) have both had repeated failures to extract due to poor manufacturing. The 870 Express Tactical locked up so bad (on an attempt to unload the shotgun) that it had to be soaked in penetrating oil and completely dissembled to free the live cartridge. I shudder to think of what could have happened in a defensive situation (or with a less experienced user).

That said, most of my experience with Remington and Mossberg shotguns have been very positive, but I am currently very wary of new-manufacture 870s (at least any Express models).

I agree that the action of a good 870 feels tighter and slicker than any Mossberg, and that they are definitely easier to field strip.

oneounceload
January 7, 2014, 12:48 PM
The only thingine chokes on are aluminum cases

Those aren't aluminum, they are steel and not contracting as easily after expansion. The issue has another facet - most of those "brass" ones are merely brass washed over steel, so the same issue can arise

Inebriated
January 7, 2014, 01:33 PM
...and the last two Remington 870s I've handled extensively (an Express Tactical and an Express Super Magnum) have both had repeated failures to extract due to poor manufacturing. The 870 Express Tactical locked up so bad (on an attempt to unload the shotgun) that it had to be soaked in penetrating oil and completely dissembled to free the live cartridge. I shudder to think of what could have happened in a defensive situation (or with a less experienced user).

That said, most of my experience with Remington and Mossberg shotguns have been very positive, but I am currently very wary of new-manufacture 870s (at least any Express models).

It's widely known that the Express guns have lower QC standards than the Police and Wingmaster line. If you can't handle and cycle a few shells before buying, you probably shouldn't buy. I've never seen a bad Police or Wingmaster, but I've seen a couple Expresses covered lock up and others with finish issues.

It's sad that a gun that has existed as the standard for what, 55 years(?) has fallen to the "check it over before buying it" realm, but that's the way it is. Luckily, Remington customer service is spectacular, and will fix your issues.

I have an Express that is flawless. Purchased in 2010, thousands of rounds, no failures. Replaced the carrier dog follower spring with one from a Police model for more positive feeding, but it never had issues before that. It's my favorite gun. I also have a Wingmaster from last year that was, out of box, as slick as my well-used Express. So if it's me buying another 870, I'm probably buying a Police or Wingmaster. MIGHT get a used Express or a new one that's a steal, but even then... police trade-in Wingmasters are cheap enough if finish isn't a concern.

Fishbed77
January 7, 2014, 06:26 PM
Luckily, Remington customer service is spectacular, and will fix your issues.

Actually, in the case of the 870 Express Magnum (my brother's) mentioned above, they apparently could not fix it.

It was sent back to Remington, "repaired," and returned. It still did not function correctly. The shotgun was sent back to Remington a second time. Remington found "nothing wrong" and sent it back. My brother eventually took it to a local gunsmith who reamed out the chamber so it could function properly.


.

MCgunner
January 7, 2014, 06:48 PM
Old Unc, I like that 500, nice, not overly tacticooled, and has sling swivels which I do like on a shotgun. I probably need to buy me an 18.5" barrel as I have two Mossberg hunting guns. Barrels are cheap!

MCgunner
January 7, 2014, 09:30 PM
I'm a Remington 870 owner. It's a good gun except for the finish. The finish is absolute garbage and prone to rusting. I have to wipe it down after every time I touch it, otherwise it'll get tiny spots of orange.

The salt marsh is a rough environment. My camo mossy is easy to keep rustless, very resiliant finish, but then, I like camo. :D Hey, it's a DUCK gun. The guys I know that hunt with 870 express end up stripping the oil and coating with black spray rustoleum before every season. They're working guns, not pieces of art.

Something I do to my blue/wood guns is use paste wax on 'em, regular old floor wax like Johnsons. Learned that trick right here on this board. It works well. I'll just strip the oil and wax 'em before the season, then wipe 'em down with Corrosion X. I don't know that the trick would work on the 870 express, but I don't know that it wouldn't, either.

If I wanted to hunt the marsh with an 870 express, I'd just do the spray paint thing with it. Yes, they're rust magnets.

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