.410 for HD. Yes, I'm ducking


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Armor Snail
September 5, 2013, 11:07 PM
Not for me but my wife. Who is very recoil sensitive, especially in the shoulder. The weight of the gun and LOP is also an issue with short arms and fibromyalgia. Not for me but my wife. Who is very recoil sensitive, especially in the shoulder. The weight of the gun and LOP is also an issue with short arms and fibromyalgia. 1⅛oz #8 12g Federal was too much out of my heavy 18.5" 870 clone(H&R PPP).

Saw the Mossberg 500 persuader in .410 in a video on YouTube. Even with 000 buck the recoil was next to nothing for a shotgun. Without a stock even.

She liked it. Believes she can handle it.

With 000 buck will this be a better HD solution than her 9mm that she can shoot like a laser?

I know I wouldn't want to be shot with it.
What say you all?

I'm always looking for an excuse to buy another gun so any input helps.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

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MErl
September 5, 2013, 11:11 PM
It has to beat a sharp stick. :)

If thats what she can comfortably use a .410 slug is still a good chunk of lead moving fast.

rcmodel
September 5, 2013, 11:11 PM
Sure would beat a sharp stick in the eye, or a purse up side the head I betcha!!

A .410 at close range will kill you just as dead as a 10 ga Magnum.

A hole in your chest is a hole in your chest.

And a .410 will certainly make a hole in your chest at close range.

Some of the new personal defense .410 ammo coming out recently for the .410 revolvers is pretty impressive to say the least.

I would not want to be on the receiving end of it out of a shotgun!!

http://www.winchester.com/Products/New-Products/Pages/pdx1-410.aspx

rc

19-3Ben
September 5, 2013, 11:14 PM
Yup. .410 is definitely not the most powerful of loads, and many here will tell you to just get her a 20ga. But the .410 really does have a lot less recoil and quite frankly, out of a shotgun like that little pumper that Mossberg makes, it would be a darned effective HD tool.
It does lose a lot of its power when people these days stick it in a revolver with 2-3"bbl. But out of a proper shotgun I would feel well armed with one if it were all I had in a close range gun fight.

T Slothrop
September 5, 2013, 11:32 PM
A .410 bore long gun loaded with either these (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/679225/federal-premium-personal-defense-ammunition-410-bore-3-000-buckshot-5-pellets-box-of-20) or these (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/440699/federal-premium-personal-defense-ammunition-410-bore-3-4-buckshot-9-pellets-box-of-20) would certainly work just fine for home defense. I'm still unconvinced about the threat stopping abilities of these loads out of a three inch barrel, however.

I6turbo
September 5, 2013, 11:37 PM
Some tend to talk about a .410 as if it's a Daisy Red Rider, but that's not the case at all. A close-quarters, typical HD distance blast from a .410 shotgun, especially with buckshot or a slug, is plenty brutal. Plenty.

rcmodel
September 5, 2013, 11:43 PM
A friends teenage son was killed by a .410 loaded with #6 bird shot while hunting rabbits years ago.

They believe he was poking around in a brush pile with the butt of the gun trying to flush a rabbit out of it.

Apparently, the hammer snagged on the brush and cocked it far enough back to fire when it slipped off.

Anyway, he was found DRT with a rat hole in his chest..

rc

VA27
September 5, 2013, 11:50 PM
Rather than the pistol grip persuader, have a look at the bantam and the hds. The bantam has a short youth stock and a 6-shot mag. The hds has a 9-shot mag, but the stock is longer. If you put the short stock on the hds, you'd have a slick little rig for home defense. 9 rounds of 410 across the room is nothing to sneeze at.

suemarkp
September 5, 2013, 11:59 PM
Or perhaps buy the PGO version since you have some modifications options with it because it is a "firearm" and not a shotgun. Then, buy an accessory stock, as it is more effective with a real stock. This will turn it into a shotgun, but you'll be able to put it back to a "firearm" by putting the factory pistol grip back in place.

USAF_Vet
September 6, 2013, 01:16 AM
Not a fan of PGOs.
Yes, the humble .410 will be plenty lethal at HD range, but so is a 9mm. Since you say she is accurate with the 9mm pistol, keep with it.

There are other factors dependent on the situation like house layout, neighbor proximity, whether or not she is going to be hunkered down in a safe room on the phone with 911, etc.

ugaarguy
September 6, 2013, 02:54 AM
With 000 buck will this be a better HD solution than her 9mm that she can shoot like a laser?
In PGO configuration, no. A PGO, even in .410, is just a big handgun with heavy recoil. In standard stocked shotgun configuration, probably so. The advantage to a long gun is that you get three points on contact for added stability, and the stock helps to mitigate recoil. If she's smaller framed then the shorter bantam and youth stocks are great options, as already mentioned. If she needs the recoil tamed further then getting a Sims limbsaver or Pachmayr decelerator recoil pad fitted is well worth the small expense. As far as ammo goes, those Winchester disk and pellet loads tend to pattern very poorly. Standard slugs or 000 buck from any reputable manufacturer will be just fine.

The greater stability and recoil control of a long gun will always make me choose one over a handgun, provided that the long gun is at least 9x19 or .410 bore shotgun.

I think you're on the right track.

wgaynor
September 6, 2013, 06:20 AM
Go for it. At across the room distance, it will be every bit as lethal as any other rifle. Just stick to the slugs or buckshot for peace of mind, but I do think birdshot at close range will suffice.

The self defense ammo that RC pointed out is supposed to be effective. I'd buy some, test it, build up confidence with it, and go from there.

Pulling the trigger in a life or death situation is not the time to find out about poor patterning.

rodinal220
September 6, 2013, 09:53 AM
You can draw your own conclusions but I wouldn't want to get hit by any of it. Moms "cache" includes a H&R .410 with the Winchester 000 in it with a butt cuff. Simple to operate for her.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/410BoreShotgunSlowMotionVideo.htm

Deltaboy
September 6, 2013, 12:30 PM
410 slugs kill deer and yotes so I would not feel under gunned with one.

jeepnik
September 6, 2013, 07:33 PM
Hey, if she want's a .410 go for it. I sure wouldn't want to stand down range. My mom used a .410 pump gun toward the end, and my wife likes a twenty semi auto. Whatever works, and whatever they are comfortable with.

goon
September 6, 2013, 08:17 PM
I agree with going with a stocked shotgun.
The 000 pellets from a .410 load are going as fast as they'd be going from a 12 gauge. A pattern of them hitting center mass stands a very high chance of stopping an attacker. I'd prefer a 12 gauge, but if a .410 is all I had, it would work.

RetiredUSNChief
September 6, 2013, 08:31 PM
If anybody at all should duck, it should be the person you point the .410 at, not you.

The .410 would make a perfectly suitable home self-defense weapon.

I seriously doubt any bad guy unfortunate enough to have the business end pointed at him will laugh and say "Don't worry! It's only a .410!"

:neener:

Apple a Day
September 6, 2013, 09:06 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=586306&highlight=.410
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=570776&highlight=.410 post #5

I like it as an option.

Onmilo
September 7, 2013, 08:54 AM
And why not a .410 long gun?
When manufacturers are touting Walker Colt size revolvers chambered for .410 as a viable defense gun, a long gun should be just as viable.

I have shot some of the Defense .410 ammo designed for the revolvers out of my .410s and the stuff, if anything, hits way harder from a long gun than from my buddies must have Taurus Judge

PonyKiller
September 7, 2013, 09:40 PM
If you can find the right length of pull for her, and find one that fits right, it'll do the job. I've fired Defense loads out of a judge, 3 00 bucks right next to each other will do the job.

plumberroy
September 8, 2013, 05:17 PM
the federal handgun #000 buck is the best patterning buck out of a long gun I have tried . The last year I lived out where I could have chickens, I kept a rossi 410 and a handful of those shells in the feed bin. Most of the time all 4 pellets hit a coon or possom at 25 yards with enough power to get to the vitals from the north end of a southbound critter

Deltaboy
September 8, 2013, 06:02 PM
I killed tons of things with a 410 growing up on the Farm.

Dirty Bob
September 8, 2013, 10:44 PM
I've tested 3- and 5-pellet 000 buck from a.410, and I'm a believer. Great patterns and good penetration. You may find that some pellets get flattened partially when fired, so I see the .410 as a 10-15 yard gun. Not much of a problem in home defense, though.

All my best,
Dirty Bob

JShirley
September 9, 2013, 06:10 AM
You could also consider a Marlin .357 rifle, if she's comfortable with that action style. A .357 from a rifle barrel is much better defensively than any .410 offering.

Deltaboy
September 9, 2013, 06:18 PM
You could also consider a Marlin .357 rifle, if she's comfortable with that action style. A .357 from a rifle barrel is much better defensively than any .410 offering.
Yep any of the pistol rounded lever actions will do the job.

deputy tom
September 9, 2013, 07:47 PM
With 000 buck will this be a better HD solution than her 9mm that she can shoot like a laser?


No. Keep the 9mm pistol. If she didn't suffer from shoulder problems then a .410 MIGHT be a good alternative. tom. :cool:

WALKERs210
September 9, 2013, 11:02 PM
I carry one of the Public Defender Judge, while it will pattern very well using either #8 or HD rounds (2disc 3 buck) , and the 45 Colt is nothing to sneeze at. Biggest issue is the pistol needs to be held firmly because it does jump. For your wife the Pump .410 is great choice, my wife's first handgun that she picked out was a PT25. Not my choice but she was happy with it, for her birthday in June I bought her a 38Sp revolver. Think she liked it better than a $2000.00 necklace I got her for Christmas. Last trip to a major Gun shop in Hoover she picked up a new purse just because of the design that allow her pistol to be carried and very easily accessed.

pikid89
September 10, 2013, 12:07 AM
While i usually take Rc's advice quite readily, I dont think I agree with the premise of the winchester pdx-1 .410 loads. The 3 discs are just strange and have the flight charachteristics of a cream pie thrown clown style, and the BBs packed in there are just too small to be of much good imo. The .410 is a good choice IF youre using traditional 000 buck or slugs. just my 2 cents

Jaymo
September 10, 2013, 12:24 AM
I hate to disagree with a mod, but .410 from a shotgun barrel has muzzle energy on par with a .41 magnum. More than a .357 revolver.
Plenty of power for HD. I think Lehigh Defense has .410 loads with .375" diameter lead round balls.
.357 is great, but a .410 shotgun at close range is VERY deadly.
The 5 pellet buckshot loads will put 5 000 pellets into a bad guy.
My wife has the Mossberg HS410 and she loves it.
Myself, well, my thumbs are too thick to load it quickly.
That's why I have a 590. I pray we never need either.

Even though the 18.5" barrel may have less energy than a longer barrel, you're still looking at good .357 energy with a heavier payload.
I don't think any bad guys would notice that they weren't shot with a 12 gauge.
They'd be too busy being dead.

.410 doesn't get treated with the respect it deserves.
My only problem with one is the fact that it doesn't pattern as well as a 32, 28, 20, 16, or 12 gauge, but that's purely a function of shot column length vs diameter.
That's only an issue when hunting or shooting clay pigeons.
Inside a house, it's a non-issue.
I don't use the Winchester PDX loads in my wife's Mossy.
I haven't heard anything to recommend me changing from buckshot.

With all due respect to the mod. I respectfully disagree.

Deltaboy
September 11, 2013, 09:58 PM
I would use it to defend my house.

Mohawk
September 12, 2013, 02:11 PM
I had a famous gun builder come out to my house for a vacation some years ago. I'm retired and live in a fairly close neighborhood as the kids are grown and gone. My wife is 5 foot nothing and 105 soaking wet. This famous gunbuilder looked over my situation and told me he'd build me the absolutely, best weapon for my home defense.
It is a Saiga with a 10 rd factory mag in 410 with an 8.5 inch barrel and a full choke(It shows a promag in the pic but I've moved away from them). It shoots Winchester XXX Buck just about perfect. With 5 38 cal lead balls that spread 3 inches at 30 feet. Recoil is very slight. It has a surefire LED mounted on the factory optic rail. I'm a lefty and it was made to work best for a lefty. I love this gun. The BATFE wait was almost 8 months for the stamp. Whenever I bring it too the range, it draws a nice crowd. Ammo is very expensive. especially the good stuff like Brown Bear metal. brass washed and Winchester XXX-000 Buck. I had problems using promags with the occasional jam on some ammos. Factory 10 round mags and the 4 rd mag have been flawless for me with approx 400 rds through the gun.

ugaarguy
September 12, 2013, 05:24 PM
I hate to disagree with a mod, but .410 from a shotgun barrel has muzzle energy on par with a .41 magnum. More than a .357 revolver.
Plenty of power for HD. I think Lehigh Defense has .410 loads with .375" diameter lead round balls. ...
...Even though the 18.5" barrel may have less energy than a longer barrel, you're still looking at good .357 energy with a heavier payload.
Mr. Shirley never said anything about the energy of a .357 Mag from a carbine vs a .410 shot shell from a conventional shotgun. He said "better choice". Those pellets of 00 buck from a .410 shell may be fewer than the 00 buck pellets from a 12 gauge shotgun, but they're the same weight and shape, and going at the same velocity. That means your .410 with 00 buck loads will have the same over penetration on barriers that they do when fired from a 12 gauge shotgun. On the other hand, .357 Magnum cartridges are loaded with bullets designed to give deep penetration and controlled expansion at velocities attained from 3 to 6 inch barrel revolvers. When those same cartridges are fired from rifles they hit peak velocities from 16" barrels. Commercial .357 loads have a 40 to 50 percent increase in velocity when fired from a 16" bbl carbine vs. firing from a 4" bbl revolver. This increased velocity exceeds the design parameters and the bullets come apart much more quickly. In other words, when fired from a rifle medium to heavy construction .357 mag bullets start to behave like light to medium construction rifle bullets. Light construction rifle bullets pose even less barrier penetration risk than handgun bullets at handgun velocities. That's why he said it's a better choice.

mooner
September 12, 2013, 05:51 PM
Yes indeed. 410 is just fine out of a shotgun.

One thing I noticed is that people who are recoil sensitive tend to be smaller not as strong (not to make huge generalizations!). A 357 lever, while a very fine gun, can be a bit heavy. A 410 youth shotgun is lighter and less expensive than the 357. Just something to consider..

Deltaboy
September 14, 2013, 03:09 PM
410 pump will get it done.

Sam Cade
September 14, 2013, 03:29 PM
A 357 lever, while a very fine gun, can be a bit heavy. A marlin 1894C is 6 lbs. About the same as a 500 Bantam in .410 or a Colt 6720.

Recruit
September 14, 2013, 04:10 PM
I'd duck for a 410 too!

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