[standingbear]

well,with the passage of Ohios concealed carry law,our company has made some policies.In the new handbook,they state no guns,ammunitions or weapons of any sort are to be brought onto company premises(including the parking lot) and if theres reasonable suspicion to do so,they may search our cars,locker,handbags and backpacks.violation is grounds for immediate dismissal.I disagree with this somewhat.I travel a distance to work and I had planned on getting the lisc to carry.it wouldnt make any sense to leave the gun at home(over an hour away) or rent one at the indoor range after work-why get the lisc if you cant carry?.I can understand them not wanting people bringing guns into work but see nothing wrong with a lisc indivual saftly storing one in their locked trunk in the car until after business hours.I dont want to get fired yet I feel if I just keep quiet about it and get the lisc,they will find out one way or another and start searching my car ect..kinda getting second thoughts on getting the permit(or lisc) now.somehow...feeling kinda letdown at the issue of getting the lisc in the first place which I couldnt wait to get.thoughts?

[goalie]

Get a permit. Get a lock box to store the gun at work. Refuse to open the box if your car is searched. Say that the key is at home. Oh, and tell no one that you have a permit.

[aguyindallas]

This may start a fire.....

First of all, its not Concealed if ANYONE knows about it, lets be very clear about that. Can you think of ANY reason they would have the suspicion to check your car? Seems to me that if NOBODY knew you had a gun in the car, lawfully or otherwise, your company would not do anyting not needed. I would not mention to anyone at work that you even want a license or intend to get one. This will raise the first suspicion to which they may try to search.

I say, carry it and keep it in the car. By the way, I would be curious to know what commie company you work for in case I want to boycott their products or services. Would you mind posting that?

On the other hand, some people may just say follow the company rules and be an unarmed subject instead of an armed citizen.

Be safe and discreet. I would also see if your company has a place that you can put suggestions. If not, perhaps start getting your fellow workes that do not like the policy to submit letters to the president of the company on an anonymous level....maybe something will change.

[aguyindallas]

By the way, get the license because its your right and you can. Even if you carry the gun once a year. My reasoning is this. When the time comes that the states want to take away CHL, it will be a much larger fight if more of the states residents have the license. Its kinda like voting in my eyes. The more people have them, the more votes for having them.

[P95Carry]

Same, same old story. The law abiding employee must remain unarmed and vulnerable ... whilst any jackass with a mind to it .. could get a gun into work and do about anything .. unchallenged.

The company is proving it has no trust for it's employees ... why should you trust them ... it's classic. Probably all they are mindful of is Dollars ... insurance Dollars probably ... and little or no concern for their people. I'd wager that if the CEO had a carry permit and chose to carry ... he sure as hell would ..... but the peons ... they must stay at risk. And the parking lot deal .... well that's just plain stupid .... pretty much negates anyone's chance of day to day carry, if they adhere to policy.

It's rather nauseating.:(

[standingbear]

Isnt there some part of the new ohio concealed carry law that dictates applicants names are to be made available to any newspaper?this is whats eating at me,if the newspapers can find out,im sure anyone can.Funny...a good portion of the good people I work WITH enjoy shooting after work...many have expessed dissagreement over the car search business at the range...but nobody is talking at work,dont want to lose their jobs. pretty much negates anyone's chance of day to day carry, if they adhere to policy. exactly..so I couldnt even go to the range after work with my own unloaded gun locked away in the trunk,lest someone get suspicious and I get fired.Ill get the permit but I guess I'LL have to leave it at home...just seems a waste.

[aguyindallas]

Standingbear....would you be so kind as to post the name of the company. I think its time for me to write a letter myself. Don't worry, I will stay very vague about where I got the policy info.

[bogie]

Well, all I know is that the first time I get an emergency call on a night or weekend, they're gonna hear about how I have to drive home first, because I'm not permitted to drive my vehicle onto the grounds...

[sumpnz]

Is there a nearby place you can park that is not company owned? Are you imaginative enough to find a hiding place in your car that a gun could be stored in that would not be easy for someone else to find, but still give you fairly quick access?

There are ways around this if you are willing to put in enough effort to do so. The big question though is whether or not it is worth risking your job to "get around" the company policy. Do you think the potential dangers are sufficiently grave to make you feel you need to carry (better 12 than 6 kind of situation)? If you can easily get another job in the same town with a more gun friendly company, why not do that. If not, calculate the risks vs. benifits of carrying and base your decision on that result.

For myself, I work at a company with similar policies, and I have chosen not to carry. I probably would if my neighbors hadn't fixed their dog situation enough to keep them contained in the yard, and if they become a problem again, I will most likely get a can of pepper spray (the really high capsacin content ones), plus a big maglight to keep in the car (for illumination of course, not bludgening ;)).

The company I work for pays better (by far) than anyone else in town, and to even get a vaguely similar job I would have to relocate. With my wife still in college and a baby on the way, quitting is not an option, and getting fired for bringing a gun to work is even less appealing because I would also lose my security clearance.

[Lennyjoe]

Ask about the company's liability policy should someone come into the workplace shooting folks.

Ask them if they are ready to face a lawsuit because they would not allow you to defend yourself should the first sentence happen. God forbid!



I can understand them not wanting people bringing guns into work

Why is that?

[Bruce H]

For all the fine floks out there looking for a new business venture. How about gun vaults built like ministorage places? I know it sounds completely crazy but with the atitudes of some businesses they could work.

[Standing Wolf]

I'd get the permit whether I had an immediate full time use for it or not.

I doubt your employer can legally search your car even if it's in a company lot, and if it illegally searches your car, I believe you'd have grounds for a law suit for a very large dollar amount.

I don't know whether this is true, but I've heard it's much easier to replace jobs than lives. I've had to replace jobs, but have never tried to replace my life.

[Highland Ranger]

Not sure what you do, or how easy it is to get another job, but in my situation I'd carry anyway. Company policy be damned.

As long as you don't drop it on the floor and are careful to buy good gear that doesn't print, who would know?

[fjolnirsson]

?No choice as far as I am concerned. I'd carry at work, regardless. A job is easier to replace than my life.

[Michigander]

Hmmm. This thread got me to thinking...

I could buy/rent a building in a business or industrial district in which most of the businesses do not all weapons on company property and make a business of temporary storage of people's weapons.

Sorry. Just thinking out loud. Hijack aborted.

[mrtgbnkr]

The company's grounds to search your car would be when the local paper publishes your name as a CCW holder...and IANAL but I believe that as private property owners, they can lay down the rules as they see fit, no matter how assinine. That said, I'd get the license, wait until they had searched my car after the local rag printed my name, and then start carrying, keeping the weapon locked in the car....just my .02.

Mark

[biere]

Run some searches as employees having guns gets discussed now and then, I think there are some relevant news articles that might help you.

I would get the permit, heck with the worry about being listed in a paper. I plan to list the reporter's info as well as the head folks of the paper in an ad if I see my name listed simply because I wish to have a firearms permit. Amazingly this shuts lots of folks up real fast. One thing you can research is being singled out simply because you have a permit. This is if your car gets searched more than others because you made the news.

You can either carry the gun and never let anyone know or you can be vocal or you can just not carry the gun.

If you do carry the gun in the car I would not use it at the gun range since others will know you did not go home to get it. As some others have said, concealed means totally concealed all the time.

I tend to be vocal and have found that it makes the bosses wonder. I ask questions about when the trained and armed gaurds will be in place since I worry about a criminal not obeying the rule and shooting me or others. And since I obey the rules I would expect managment to have a solid protection method in place before I voluntarily disarmed myself. Overall this concept gets the rule chucked in the circular file and I am considered wacko, so it comes out fine all around.

I can type this post because I have the luxury of few responsabilities and low bills. So being a pain and losing a job does not really bother me. If you are similar to the one poster who is paid above average for the area and seriously needs the money, then I would weigh the job a lot more heavily than the fun I get from messing with silly authority figures who like to make rules.

One thing you should research if you plan to conceal 100% is the legality for the business breaking into your car. If you have a real trunk I would switch that lock out for one that has its own key instead of a shared key with the doors and maybe the ignition. I chuck the remote key fob things so that is also something to lose. You can honestly hand them a key ring that allows them to open the doors and start the car and hide the trunk key elsewhere on another key ring or something. The mini vaults are another thing to research.

When I partied my way through a little college years ago there were some serious rules on the dorm rooms being allowed to be searched. But they could not pop the locks on a briefcase and I always seemed to never recall the digits properly. I basically used the briefcase the way many use a mini vault now. And actually since I live in ohio I tend to use the briefcase as a locked thing when in an suv that lacks all those seperate compartments the current law wants.

Your main problem is that you wish to be employed and park on their property. Doing so gives many of your rights away, especially is you have signed things agreeing to follow the rules of the silly book and what not.

I can't answer your question for you, but I would be vocal and use some of the facts that have caused more and more states to allow concealed carry. Research that one since this site rocks on logical and well thought out discussions about how ccw does not equal the wild wild west.

[standingbear]

quitting or getting fired isnt an option with me either...we are barely getting by as it is-seriously working poor-cant afford to take any chances or move.I wonder how many other places will start doing the same thing with the new law coming into effect soon...will be interesting to see how things will change once the law takes effectin ohio.....but Ill still have my days off and weekends for the permit,so I guess it wont be a total loss.thanks for the thoughts.

[armoredman]

Get a small concealable weapon in a very good rig, like a P32 in a pocket rig, unless they have metal detectors. A new job is a lot easier to find than a new life....:(
Edited to add - as long as carrying does not violate any federal state or local laws....

[Greg L]

Can you park off their property easily? If so, that and a secure lock box might be a good solution.

Or, drive to work with someone who feels the same as you, meet in a local parking lot, lock up both your pistols in the lockbox, & then take the other car to work.

Greg

[kbsrn]

to search your car. They can search your desk, locker, and so on, but you have a reasonable right to expect privacy in your car. Of course this goes out the window if they see you put the weapon in your truck. I would carry and lock the pistol in the car, just make sure no one sees your weapon or holster.

[Treylis]

What utter hogwash.

If somebody at my workplace insisted on searching my car like that, I'd laugh in their face. Self-defense is a human right, regardless of what packs of lawyers want to claim.

[Ben Shepherd]

I've faced similar decisions. Something about the 5th ammendment comes to mind. And I would also give Standing Wolfs post some serious weight in your decision.

Just 2 weeks ago the police chased a bank robber through our parking lot. What if he'd made a hard right into the building and took hostages?

"Won't happen to me" is a stupid, uniformed posistion to take.
It can, it does, and it just might happen to you.

Trust me, stuff happens. I'm barely 30 and I've already been shot, stabbed, and ran over. And I live in "happy valley" in Utah.

[Eskimo Jim]

Standing Bear,
You're in a situation that many people are faced with.

I'd suggest:
1) do a search for workplace shootings on the internet or if you can get to Lexus-Nexus, the newspaper search engine, print out news events of work place shootings. Include the note, "Company policy forbidding lawful possession of firearms on company property would make this possible" and leave it annonymously on the owner's desk

2) concealed means concealed. Keep quite and don't ever let them search you

3) don't ever let them search your car etc. If you have a locked box, the key or combination in not accessible.

It is going to take a court case to make companies realize that they shouldn't violate a person's rights when they go to work.

-Jim

[AJ Dual]

WI's carry law adressed this, unfortunately it failed by one vote.

IIRC, there was specific verbage in the bill that made suitable storage in your car in a employer's parking lot legal, and overrode that portion of any employer's code of conduct or handbook policy as a requirment of employment. :D IIRC the employer could also not ban car storage/carry if you used your own privately owned vehicle in the course of your job.

The original version of the bill even had specific language laying out employer liability if they banned CCW and a permited employee was ever injured or attacked in a crime on thier premises. Unfortunately, it was never taken seriously, and was probably intended from the start as a throwaway bargaining chip to get legislatiors on board with the promise of a "reasonable bill".

The upside to WI's CCW defeat is that it only failed by one traitorous vote on a two-thirds veto-override majority, from an assemblyman who had voiciferously supported and co-sponsored the bill. In the end he felt it was more important to not weaken his party with the first gubanatorial overrride in 20-odd years. And a cush state job from the Govenor once he gets voted out next year, if he even bothers to run.

However, due to the closness of the vote, the NRA, WCCA, and the WI Pro-Gun Movment are out for blood, and hopefully several senate and assembly seats will flip over the CCW issue, and others like taxes, and we'll get an even better bill through in 2005, with more of the original CCW protections intact, enough to make the years wait worth it even.

Frankly, my attitude about carry on private property is based on two things:

- You normally can't be forced to sign away your basic human rights as a condition of employment, and self-defense is a basic human right.

- My body, clothing, and what's under it does not cease being private property just because it is momentarily located on someone else's private property. If you're a guest in my home, I cannot simply thrust my hands in your pockets and grab what I want because you are on my property. As long as what you carry does not adversely effect the external environment, it is none of anyone else's business. I think that an employer ought to be able to fire you for brandishing improperly, flashing etc. but not for carry. I feel that dismissal for carry is akin to having a Jewish or Muslim employer fire you because he suspected you came back from lunch with pork in your belly. But if you took that pork and excreeted it on the floor, or carried porkchops in your hands and swung them around and slapped people with them, it's a different story.

[HankB]

our company has made some policies.In the new handbook,they state no guns,ammunitions or weapons of any sort are to be brought onto company premises(including the parking lot) Well, you can thank them for taking full, 100% liability for any harm that should befall you either at work or during your commute as a direct result of their policy that a) disarms you and b) fails to protect disarmed employees.

Even though you're not in Texas, you might find the following link to be interesting: http://www.tsra.com/boma_letter.htm

[aguyindallas]

Hank brings up a good point...they have taken full responsibility for your safety. So, if you get hurt at work, its a workers compensation case, if you get shot or injured because of some whacko, it must be a workers compensation case too since it would be a workplace injury or death.

Thank God I live in Texas! I have my SigPro 2340 IWB right now(like always). Freedom is an amazing feeling!

[aguyindallas]

Oh yeah...and I am at work too. :D

[Carlos Cabeza]

I am in a similar situation at my place of employment. They do not allow concealed weapons on premises or in the parking area. You consent to a search of your vehicle when hired, as a condition of employment. To be honest, I ignore the stupid policy and keep my weapon locked in a mini-safe inside the locked car. I also keep it a tightly guarded secret and never tell ANYONE! I know it is almost useless when it is stored so securely. If the management ever wanted to search I would politely tell them to F____ OFF ! and I would find another job. It is definitley not worth my life to allow the corporate policy to render me defenseless. :fire: EXAMPLE: There is an individual at my place of employment who is an introverted reclusive strangoid. This person has made several references to "I'll just come in here one morning and shoot the place up". :eek: Whenever he gets angry with management decisions that do not reflect his wishes. A manager happened to overhear him and was visibly shaken when I said "Oh nevermind Mr. XXXXX, he always says that kind of stuff". I then said not to worry 'cause he'll probably come after you first and you can't do anything about it ! :D Thanks to your COMPANY POLICY !!!!!! He understood the point..................

[starfuryzeta]

The company I currently work for had such a provision in their handbook the year I started about cars and the parking lot. However, for some reason I have yet to find out, the following year, it was amended to specifically say company vehicles, not all vehicles.

The right to concensual search of vehicles, IMHO, is not given, but it is given to anything that interacts with the work environment (cubical, drawers, notebooks, backpacks, etc.).

I think the parking lot issue is spot on, because they don't want you transfering weapons from one car to another on their property. That is their right to do. Remember the AOL guys.

My arguement on the whole car thing is that it is my car that is on their property. What's in my car is my property. Their rights end at my tires. They can tell me to no longer park on their property, but they can't tell me what to do inside my car because it is my property.

Also, I'm not sure what your specific revision of policy entails, but did you have to sign something when it was re-issued? If so, you may have given them the right to search you as a term of employment.

I know its this way in Florida. You have the right to carry on your person at your place of business. Your employer also has the right to fire you for doing so.

[AJ Dual]

Just a thought and slightly OT from the L&P theme of CCW vs. Work, but I just had a brainstorm about searches in a locked car. If they find the lockbox, and you refuse to open it, you're likely to still be terminated...

There are several flat pistol lockboxes with pushbutton locks out there that are suitable for mounting in cars. Many people have upgraded stero systems with extra boosters and amps in the trunk, or under the seats. These Amps often look just like one of these lockboxes, but with that domed aluminum heatsink and radiator vanes on top...

I smell a project coming on... :evil:

Make this: http://www.safe-guns.com/images/TopLock.jpg

Look like this: http://www.electronixwarehouse.com/graphics/audiovox/amp-comp.GIF

I know there's a very similar unit to the lockbox above out there for sale, but the gun compartment slides out like a cash register drawer, it's also black, that'd make blending it in as the body of an amp even easier. Just buy an old amp on the used market from some kid upgrading his "boom car". Another possible source would be to buy the cheapest thing you can find at one of those computer and stereo flea market shows that caters to those looking for the hoopty-car look, but can't afford the ca$h. Mount the heatsink cover on top, add a few fake wires that run off under the rug and presto!

[sumpnz]

AJ, where would one find a box like the white one pictured, and how much do they cost? I know my cube mate would be very interested in one for a P32 he's looking into buying, and I would like one myself to secure my pistol, and the bolts for my rifles. The main attraction is the mechanical (i.e. no batteries required) keypad combo lock.

[AJ Dual]

They're all over the place. Ads in the back of most gun magazines, major outfitters and sporting goods chains often sell them too. All the ones sized for a single pistol seem to be around $90-110 in price.

Search the internet for "Gun Lockbox".

Since my wife's pregnant with twins, I've moved the nightstand gun into a GunVault brand unit bolted to the floor under the nightstand. (I know, it's a little early, but once the kids are here, I can only assume cash will be short...) http://www.gunvault.com/ I got it for $95 on sale with a $5 cupon at Dunham's Sports.

This is the famous battery operated one everyone knows about that I got. However, if batteries make you nervous, it does have a key backup, an external AC power source is availible with the batteries then in a backup role if the power goes out. The unit will also give you a signal when the batteries are getting weak well before it would stop operating. You could also buy some lithium AA's from Radio Shack or a camera store if you want some serious life out of the batteries, or a serious margin of safety in the battery life. It just has to click a little selonoid once, and run the keypad, so they do last a long while.

Here's the place I got that pic from: www.safe-guns.com and there's plenty of others out there.

The one I'm thinking of for the car, to disguise in an amp body would be a non-electric one with that kind of lock on it, but it's flatter and the gun slides out in a drawer instead. Of course, if it's just for your house, all sorts of sizes and operating styles would work. I'd also worry about summer heat and winter cold in the car ruining battery life as well.

[M1911Owner]

How about parking on the street in front of your workplace?

[Ed]

My company said no weapons in company vehicles. I'm in sales and the only person in my state from my company. I carry.

[Black92LX]

i would have to agree on parking on the street. my brother just got the letter from Proctor & Gamble this week. though i am not sure if it stopped you from having one in the car.

[fjolnirsson]

carried porkchops in your hands and swung them around and slapped people with them,

LMAO at the miental image.:D

[Atticus]

The company I work for has always had that policy...and I'm sure they'll send out a reminder soon. I've never heard of them asking to search a car, and I doubt they ever will. If they ever do ask me to step outside and open the trunk of my car, I will go out, but I'll drive away. If they fire me over that, so be it...I'll claim that I was frightened, intimidated, and due to my aging prostate, I had to pee - and I'll betcha I would win in court.

[fix]

My employer prohibits concealed carry, but open carry is allowed! Leave your covering garment at the door!!! IWB no more!!! :D

[Watchman]

Let me tell yall a little about CCW's and big companys.

A good story...the kind you never hear...


After the Sept.11 crisis, many things were done to implement security all over the nation. One of the things that recieved little notice was the tightening up of security procedures at power plants, in particular nuclear power plants.

Companys that owned nuclear power plants spent millions of dollars on new equipment,training and many even hired additional security personell.Things that were low priority suddenly became important in the eyes of coporate America when it was realized that perhaps we werent as secure as we once thought.

Personell and security policys were reviewed and brought up to date. Badged personell underwent new background checks and were made aware of changes.

In my particular company,one of the largest nuclear operaters in the nation, the plant manager of the one of the nuclear plants decided to ban personal weapons in the parking lot. I supect that he did it soley because he thought it was the right thing to do.

What he didnt understand,or know, was that a fair number of his employees chose to carry weapons in their vehicle. Being from rural communities from a fairly large (and predominatley conservative)area, he recieved much negative feedback about this. Out of over 1000 employees, over 25 percent had CCW's. Three were CCW insructors and very active in the local shooting club.

So, in a meeting of minds the instructors informed him of the reason that people carried and how the law dealt with it and pretty much enlightend the plant manager in things he had never really thought about.

To their credit, all was done in a very polite and proffesional manner and he was even told about a CCW class that was coming up.

Low and behold, the manager and his wife decided that in light of recent events, they alone would be responsible for their individual security and they both enrolled in the class. Neither had much of a background in guns, but after a bit of special instruction in the fine arts of gunhandling they
took the class and did quite well when the shooting part of it took place.

The manager all of a sudden had a different outlook on personal weapons...to the extent that he amended the rules for carrying concealed weapons in the parking lot. Every day at work, when we enter into the protected area, we are subject to search. I have been searched numerous times. The guncase under the seat with the .40 caliber in it is not a concern. The guards dont even give it a second look. Occasionally a gun savy guard will ask what you've got, just out of interest and curiosity.

In this case, a rule that seemed to be pretty anti-gun was changed through intelligent converstaion and perception, thus making it a success story.

While I dont expect it to ring true everywhere, it certainly cant hurt to talk to the people that make the rules. I think that sometimes when seemingly bad rules are made that we mistakenly think that they cant or wont be changed.

I mean, who would have thought that at a nuclear plant with guards all over the place carrying M-16's that we would have ever had a chance to talk about and change the rule ?

If I was a betting man, Id have lost a Coke over that one...:scrutiny:

[71Commander]

Irony defined:

Where I work firearm's are prohibited on company property, and yet with a training fund, they paid for my CCW class. :confused: