Crimped .38 Spl Brass?


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MI2600
September 12, 2013, 01:42 PM
I came across .38 Spl brass that appear to crimped primers. The headstamp is "LC". I thought only military type brass was crimped. I don't know of any time when .38 Spl was military...but I have been known to be wrong before.

Can anyone clarify?

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rcmodel
September 12, 2013, 01:48 PM
LC is military.
Lake City Army Ammunition plant.

The 38. Special has been a military cartridge for about 100 years, serving in various capacities with solders, MP's, plant guards, Air crews, etc..

rc

1KPerDay
September 12, 2013, 01:55 PM
. I don't know of any time when .38 Spl was military...

Can anyone clarify?
You don't? The .38 Special was used by many soldiers as a sidearm in WWI, and some navy and Marine air crews were issued .38 specials in WWII. The Air Force issued it starting in 1956:
n 1956, the U.S. Air Force adopted the Cartridge, Caliber .38, Ball M41, a military variant of the .38 Special cartridge designed to conform to the rules of land warfare. The original .38 M41 ball cartridge used a 130-grain full metal jacketed bullet, and was loaded to an average pressure of only 13,000 pounds per square inch (90 MPa), giving a muzzle velocity of approximately 725 ft/s (221 m/s) from a 4-inch (100 mm) barrel.[19][20] This ammunition was intended to prolong the life of S&W M12 and Colt Aircrewman revolvers equipped with aluminum cylinders and frames, which were prone to stress fractures when fired with standard .38 ammunition. By 1961, a slightly revised M41 .38 cartridge specification known as the Cartridge, Caliber .38 Ball, Special, M41 had been adopted for U.S. armed forces using .38 Special caliber handguns.[20] The new M41 Special cartridge used a 130-grain FMJ bullet loaded to a maximum allowable pressure of 16,000 psi (110,000 kPa) for a velocity of approximately 950 ft/s (290 m/s) in a solid 6-inch (150 mm) test barrel, and about 750 ft/s (230 m/s) from a 4-inch (100 mm) revolver barrel.[21][22] The M41 ball cartridge was first used in .38 revolvers carried by USAF aircrew and Strategic Air Command security police, and by 1961 was in use by the U.S. Army for security police, dog handlers, and other personnel equipped with .38 Special caliber revolvers.[22] A variant of the standard M41 cartridge with a semi-pointed, unjacketed lead bullet was later adopted for CONUS (Continental United States) police and security personnel.[20]

I've shot a LOT of military .38 special from the 50's. I don't remember seeing any crimped primers, though. Hmmmm.... got any pics?

MI2600
September 12, 2013, 01:56 PM
Good to know.

Jesse Heywood
September 12, 2013, 02:22 PM
In the early 70s one of our police officers was regular army. On occasion he would show up at the range with 38 spl FMJ, the only stipulation was that he had to return the empties in the boxes. Only problem was it had corrosive primers.

ReloaderFred
September 12, 2013, 02:53 PM
I've shot tons of GI .38 Special ammunition and still load the brass. You'll run across headstamps of WCC, RA, FC, LC, IVI, TZZ, and others. Several of them are crimped and the brass is normally of heavier construction.

Corrosive primers haven't been loaded in military .38 Special ammunition since at least the early 1950's.

GI .38 brass is good heavy brass, and will outlast most commercial cases.

Hope this helps.

Fred

MI2600
September 12, 2013, 04:34 PM
Thanks all. I came across four LC cases mixed in with some other .38 Spl headstamps. I noticed they did not deprime (is that a word?) easily and would not accept new primers without some creative metal removal at the pocket.

I always thought the Army went from the .38LC to the .45 and pretty much stayed with it. I forgot about air crews and such.

Jesse Heywood
September 12, 2013, 06:08 PM
Corrosive primers haven't been loaded in military .38 Special ammunition since at least the early 1950's.


I always wondered about that. It would explain why he was able to get the ammo.

rcmodel
September 12, 2013, 07:47 PM
I have WWII .38 Spl military ammo made by WCC.

It was loaded with Stynless non-corrosive primers.

I am not aware of any post WWII U.S. military .38 Spl military ammo being loaded with corrosive primers.

In fact, all post-World War II .38 Special and 9mm Parabellum pistol ammunition from US military arsenals is known to have used only noncorrosive primers.
Also all U.S. .30 Carbine WWII & later ammo is non-corrosive.

rc

ArchAngelCD
September 13, 2013, 12:52 AM
I've shot tons of GI .38 Special ammunition and still load the brass. You'll run across headstamps of WCC, RA, FC, LC, IVI, TZZ, and others. Several of them are crimped and the brass is normally of heavier construction.

Fred
I have a bunch of WCC brass I load and it lasts a VERY LONG TIME! it's very good brass and I'm sure the LC brass is too.

medalguy
September 16, 2013, 01:04 AM
I snagged a lot of .38 Special brass while I was in the Air Force, still have much of it. All I got was ICI headstamped (Valcartier Industries, Quebec Canada) and it has some of the heaviest crimps I have ever encountered. Once the crimp has been removed and the depriming pin replaced :( it's excellent brass and seems to last forever with light loads.

Wildbillz
September 16, 2013, 10:30 AM
Up into the 80s we were issuing out Smith model 10s and Ruger's to our Helo pilots in the unit I was in. I have a couple of ammo cans full of once fired LC brass that I picked up at a gun show years ago. At the time it was dirt cheap cause you had to remove the primer crimp.

WB

medalguy
September 16, 2013, 03:53 PM
rcmodel's post got me looking at my brass. I forgot I had a couple of 50 cal cans full of crimped LC brass too. That was from .38 Special PGU-12/B ammo made up for the AF in 1978. I still have some of that ammo.

It seems there were some folks taking the rather anemic M41 ammo, pulling the bullet, and adding powder to the case and reseating the bullet, resulting in a few blown up pistols. So to prevent this, Lake City loaded up some high velocity rounds with the same 130 gr FMJ bullet, and heavily crimped the bullet so as to keep them from being pulled. This ammo was pretty snappy and I have almost a full 50 cal can of it in my stash. It's pretty snappy to shoot and should probably only be fired in a good condition heavy frame pistol.

bamacisa
September 19, 2013, 11:36 PM
Some LC thirty eight brass has crimped primers. Remove the crimp and reload. It is good brass.

ljnowell
September 20, 2013, 01:49 AM
I can always tell when I come across a piece of LC or WCC brass while reloading 38s. It hits the sizing die way harder! The brass is definitely thicker and stronger, no doubt. Once you cut the primer pockets its good brass though.

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