Question on Aiming


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MELTHR
September 13, 2013, 12:01 PM
I fired my first pistol 1 year ago during my conceal carry class.
Since then I have been to the range many times and shot a good 4,000 plus rounds, easily.

I primarily shoot and carry a Glock 19. I have no issues hitting where I aim. I can shoot it one handed, off handed, and "without aiming" (meaning having my arm down brining it up and firing without really focusing on the sight picture, IE a rushed, arenaline type move) and hit center of mass on a 20' Target.

MY PROBLEM is I can't hit Center of Mass consistently at 10' with the Khar. I have this problem with an assortment of other firearms, the Khar has just been the most extreme. Even close up I have a really hard time hitting within say 12" of where I am aiming. It doesnt matter how hard I focus I just cant seem to shoot a whole variety of firearms accurately.

I can shoot my GP100 with full power loads just about as well as the glock, but it does require focus, and there are a few others that I have good control with.

MY QUESTION is this common? Is it perhaps related to grip angle and the wrist?

I understand that practice with one gun improves efficiency with that gun. But some guns are just naturally on target for me and others just are bad. I practice with the Khar almost equally with the Glock as I prefer to carry it, but I dont as I cant hit consistently at point of aim. And its not the specific Khar thats the problem. My wife can drive tacks with it (very tight groupings at least) and I have the same problem with my friends Khar.

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243winxb
September 13, 2013, 01:26 PM
A shorter sight radius makes a handgun harder to shoot accurately. Plus some sights are just harder to see. This is common. Welcome to THR

Sam1911
September 13, 2013, 01:57 PM
If you can get some one-on-one help from a qualified instructor you'll save an awful lot of money in ammo costs trying to figure it out on your own. Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. In other words it may be really difficult for you to self-diagnose what your primary problems are and solve them, and you could spend thousands more rounds essentially reinforcing the mistakes you're making.

Having said all that, it sounds like you've never really had the opportunity to master the fundamentals. You've been fortunate to find that the Glock happens to work ok with whatever you're doing naturally, but without a solid basis in sight picture, trigger control, follow through, and so forth, your best won't be all that great and it falls apart completely when you try to transition to another gun.

It all starts with the fundamentals. Seeing your front sight on the target. Pressing the trigger without disturbing your aim. The break (often described as a "surprise break," though that's not exactly accurate). Follow through (eyes still on the point of aim, seeing the gun return to battery, still on target). Calling your shot. Once you're doing that correctly, you can start speeding up. You'll learn how to do these things right in the very minimum time necessary to make accurate shots -- BUT NO FASTER.

Seeing as you'd rather be carrying the Kahr, I'd devote my time entirely to that pistol for now. Learn these techniques correctly with that gun and you'll find that your performance with other guns will improve dramatically as well.

and "without aiming" (meaning having my arm down brining it up and firing without really focusing on the sight picture, IE a rushed, arenaline type move)Ok, stop doing that. I know that's what it looks like those master-level guys shooting 5 shots a second are doing. IT ISN'T. You must see your sights to shoot accurately. (There are some advanced techniques for very close-and-dirty unsighted gunfighting, but you aren't there yet.) Learn to do the fundamentals correctly and the speed will come.

Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast.

Good luck!

YZ
September 13, 2013, 02:51 PM
Most likely, a different trigger. I don't know the size of your hand, but a Kahr trigger will break after a long pull. Combined with a slim grip, it may contort your shooting hand which leads to poor stability. Anticipation of recoil is another possibility. What is your pattern relative to the point of aim?

9mmepiphany
September 13, 2013, 04:33 PM
I primarily shoot and carry a Glock 19. I have no issues hitting where I aim. I can shoot it one handed, off handed...on a 20' Target.
I'm going to figure that you aren't really shooting a a target that is really 20 feet in diameter. If you really meant you were shooting at a foot under 7 yards, how small is your aiming area?

MY PROBLEM is I can't hit Center of Mass consistently at 10' with the Khar.
...Even close up I have a really hard time hitting within say 12" of where I am aiming. It doesnt matter how hard I focus I just cant seem to shoot a whole variety of firearms accurately.
If you can't hit within 12" at just over 3 yards, it isn't an aiming problem

MY QUESTION is this common? Is it perhaps related to grip angle and the wrist?
No it isn't...neither common, grip angle or wrist (limp?)
It is all about trigger management...how well you can press the trigger smoothly straight to the rear while you hold the sights on target. At 3 yards (or 10') your shots should be on top of each other...surely within a couple of inches of each other.

You can have the worst grip, barely be able to hold the sights on target and still able to hold within a couple of inches...if you are using correct trigger management techniques

I understand that practice with one gun improves efficiency with that gun.
As Sam has already pointed out, there is no benefit to practicing incorrect techniques...it only makes for permanent bad habits.

I'd strongly recommend that you seek out instruction on shooting fundamentals

gschoelles
September 15, 2013, 11:15 AM
Grip...

A practiced shooter with a good grip can make consistent groups at seven yards without aiming. Your are leaving point of aim too far and your grip surely is changing with follow up shots with small handguns.

Instruction could help identify what is going on, but I bet you can figure it out, if you compare your grip, hand-arm position and stance between shooting tools.

arizona98tj
September 15, 2013, 02:06 PM
OP....which Kahr are you shooting? Same caliber as the Glock?

I have a Kahr and love it, but it took me more practice time to become as proficient with it as I am with one of the Springfield XD handguns I have. The big difference is the trigger....double action only vs. single action. My Kahr PM9 as a very long double action trigger pull and while it is smooth, is a lot different than the XD.

As was suggested, a lesson from an instructor might be the best investment you make in the near future....and the long term payoffs are priceless. I've taken many, many hours of professional instruction and it never ceases to amaze me that a tiny little "issue" spotted by the instructor can make such a notable difference in my shooting. Certainly worth the time and money. ;)

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