First Ar15!


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josiewales
September 14, 2013, 06:31 PM
Ok, it's not mine REALLY. It's actually my dad's, but I live at home so same thing. :) It is a Bushmaster Carbon 15 my dad got at Cabelas during their sale. It has the red dot scope which, surprisingly, isn't complete junk. The Ar itself has decent ergonomics and is pretty accurate. The red dot scope isn't a precision optic, but I managed under 1.5 inch groups at 50 yards. I am convinced it could do much better with a good scope. Probably the best thing about the Ar is the trigger. No creep, no wiggle, a little heavy but very crisp. I real pleasure to shoot. Time will tell how reliable the Ar is, but for now I am very happy. I have friends in Georgia, and am planning a hog hunting down there next year, and def. going to take it.
Next year I will be 18 and I am planning to celebrate my coming of legal age by buying my own Ar. I'm hoping to get a S&W M&P 15 with Magpul accessories.

Anyway, thanks for letting me ramble for a little bit. In case you couldn't have guessed, I am a little young, so ANY advice, tips or just general knowledge about Ar15s is appreciated.

Thanks, and have a good weekend,
Josey

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allaroundhunter
September 14, 2013, 06:43 PM
The GI trigger (what your gun has) is actually quite poor compared to aftermarket ones.

Do yourself a favor and don't shoot a Geissele, Timney, or AR Gold or you will be dropping some money on one...

josiewales
September 14, 2013, 07:37 PM
The GI trigger (what your gun has) is actually quite poor compared to aftermarket ones.

That maybe true, but I still like it. :) When I get my Ar I would like to put a Timney trigger in it.

gotigers
September 14, 2013, 09:01 PM
Some milspec triggers can be quite good. My S&W M&P15A has a sweet trigger. Almost no creep or extra travel. I put JP yellow springs and it breaks at 4.5lbs. However, I agree. Don't shoot a Timney or Geissele. I have both.

By lots of bulk ammo and shoot the mess out of it. You will find that it is an expensive addiction. Welcome to the sickness.

Edit: When I get my Ar I would like to put a Timney trigger in it.

What will you be doing with the AR? Plinking, training, matches(several types), 3 gun, target, etc? Some triggers can serve different applications much better than others.

josiewales
September 14, 2013, 10:32 PM
What will you be doing with the AR? Plinking, training, matches(several types), 3 gun, target, etc? Some triggers can serve different applications much better than others
Probably target and woodchuck hunting mostly(don't worry I'll make sure it's legal).



And for the hogs -- select the right ammo young man.


Yes sir. I am thinking about this http://www.midwayusa.com/product/167412/winchester-razorback-xt-ammunition-223-remington-64-grain-hollow-point-lead-free-box-of-20

or this
http://www.code3tactical.com/rem-hog-hammer-223rem-62gr-tsx-20.aspx

ironworkerwill
September 16, 2013, 10:33 PM
A guy I work with/ my girlfriend's cousin has one. The BM C15 is one of amazement and amusement. I definitely could not afford to shoot the thing because at the range I was like a greedy kid with candy. My turn, my turn!

WinThePennant
September 16, 2013, 11:01 PM
Mil-spec triggers aren't THAT bad.

Try throwing in some KNS anti-rotation pins, and a QMS (Quality Mil-Spec) trigger. A nice combination. The KNS anti-rotation pins really smooth out a mil-spec trigger.

Outlaw Man
September 16, 2013, 11:04 PM
That's very similar to my first one, also a Bushmaster. I now have two ARs and have spent more money on them than my first car. You can get hooked.

Enjoy it! A little practice and some good ammo should definitely get you a hog.

MistWolf
September 16, 2013, 11:18 PM
KNS pins are not needed. They tend to be soft and a little undersized. The best and cheapest way to fix up a standard AR trigger is to remove it, clean it and lube the pivot points, contact sears and the bottom of the hammer. It will go a long way towards making the trigger smoother and predicatable. Don't spend a dime on pins, triggers or springs until you clean & lube whoat you've got. Simple non-sulfur and non-graphite grease will work fine. Some fire control groups in polymer lowers are also made of polymer

WinThePennant
September 16, 2013, 11:55 PM
KNS pins keep your pins from walking out on you. A side benefit is that they smooth out a trigger.

MistWolf
September 17, 2013, 02:01 AM
The pins of a properly installed FCG will not walk. Geissele tells folks not to use KNS pins with their triggers because the pins are the wrong diameter and are soft. You want a smooth AR trigger? Lube it. Works everytime and it's as cheap as it gets

Fishbed77
September 17, 2013, 01:10 PM
The GI trigger (what your gun has) is actually quite poor compared to aftermarket ones.

Well, none of these triggers are "GI" or "milspec" because they aren't select-fire. ;)

That said, the feel of "standard" AR triggers vary widely. I've shot some that truly do suck. But I've shot others that are actually quite good. An example of some rather good ones are the standard AR trigger groups from PSA that I have in two of my AR builds. Neither are very light (at 6 lbs) but both have a consistent and crisp break, are quite smooth.

Yes, the feel of a Geissele trigger blows them away, but you will only see results if you are doing some serious precision work, which is not the domain of most 16" carbines.

WinThePennant
September 21, 2013, 10:51 AM
The pins of a properly installed FCG will not walk. Geissele tells folks not to use KNS pins with their triggers because the pins are the wrong diameter and are soft. You want a smooth AR trigger? Lube it. Works everytime and it's as cheap as it gets
Do you have a link where they say to not use KNS pins with a QMS Mil-Spec trigger? I am looking, but can not find anything saying that.

MistWolf
September 21, 2013, 11:13 AM
Geissele used to have it up on their website and the link at the Adco website used to takeyou there, but it's not working. This link takes you to the Geissele portion and there is a "Read This" hotspot which used to take you to the document http://www.adcofirearms.com/acc/ProductLineSingle_q.cfm?brand=Geissele

MistWolf
September 21, 2013, 11:28 AM
Ok, after a bit of digging around, I found where somebody posted an email they received from Bill G-
From Bill Geissele himself:

DasRonin,

I didn't see an email from you. It might have got hung up in my spam filter or something.

Here is the deal on non-rotating pins

Geissele SSA pins are 0.1550" dia +/-0.0001
Holes in the trigger can be 5 tenths over Geissele pin size
Kns pins are either .154 or .1555. So they are either too loose or just about a metal to metal fit in our triggers

Geissele pins are chrome-moly steel that is rough turned, rough ground, heat treated and then centerless finish ground. They are a quality pin.

Why do we not recommend KNS pins? One is that they are the wrong size. Can the smaller diameter pins work? Yes, but they are not the intended size and there can be a 'softer" break to the 2nd stage with them.

But the biggest reason is that the KNS pins are soft. Sometimes when they are installed they pull up a burr that causes havoc with trigger operation. I get calls from frustrated customers where they are totally disappointed in their SSA because it either feels terrible or it hangs up. I spend all kinds of time on the phone wracking my brain trying to figure out what is going on and trying to work the customer through the problem. Finally, I ask the customer to send the trigger in (which I hate to inconvenience the customer with) and the issue is that the KNS pins are jamming the trigger up.

Yes, our website is a total mess. We have a new one almost ready but I would rather spend time in the shop. We doubled our manufacturing floor space in Dec and am still getting everything set up. BTW - the company has a Facebook page if you guys want to check us out.

I hope this helps, guys. Don't ever hesitate to contact me if questions come up.

Link to the thread- http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=47476

WinThePennant
September 21, 2013, 12:33 PM
That's Geissele. Not ALG Defense (makers of QMS). Now I know there is a relationship between the two (Amy started ALG), but they are not the same trigger.

I still think the QMS will work just fine with KNS pins. It is, after all, a mil-spec trigger.

That information you provided is the first time I've heard anyone say that KNS pins are soft. They are made of stainless steel. It is true that chrome moly is harder than stainless steel, but stainless steel is still very hard.

MistWolf
September 21, 2013, 02:21 PM
Depending what alloy of stainless steel is used and whether or not it's been hardened

Warp
September 21, 2013, 09:22 PM
That's Geissele. Not ALG Defense (makers of QMS). Now I know there is a relationship between the two (Amy started ALG), but they are not the same trigger.

I still think the QMS will work just fine with KNS pins. It is, after all, a mil-spec trigger.

That information you provided is the first time I've heard anyone say that KNS pins are soft. They are made of stainless steel. It is true that chrome moly is harder than stainless steel, but stainless steel is still very hard.

"Stainless steel" is a rather vague term that doesn't actually tell you all that much about the steel in question/its properties.

Kind of like "aircraft grade aluminum".

As a general rule, if a manufacturer, marketer, retailer, etc, uses one of those terms...but doesn't tell you the exact type of metal...it's because they are playing marketers word games, making things sound better than they really are.

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