2000 MR .308 Results


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12guns
September 16, 2013, 10:18 PM
Hello from Arkansas! I'm fairly new to the reloading scene but I've grown up with guns, shooting, and some exposure to reloading. I successfully loaded a nice .45acp load and have moved on to my first rifle loads.

I know magnum primers may not be the best choice, but they are used frequently and happened to be what I had on hand. Here's what I loaded:

-misc brass federal, hornady match, and Winchester all trimmed 2.06
-CCI250 primers
-165 grain Nossler BT spitzer
-2000mr powder

Rifle: SS Ruger 77 syn stock. Shoots sub MOA with factory Federal match kings or Winchester supreme.

I started at 47 grains which didn't group worth a crap. I jumped up from there to my max load of 50 grains since I knew pressure wasn't an issue (shot one last weekend testing for function). I got a little over an inch group with the 50 grain load, which was my best of the multiple loads I tried. Note I
The barrel was quite warm, at 90 degrees today I'm sure I didn't let the barrel cool sufficiently. NO signs of pressure with the 50 grain load. I had issues with a faulty caliper, so seating depth was off the lands, but slightly too long for my ruger magazine. cool thing with this powder is the added velocity with minimal pressure. I'll have to search but I'm confident I'm getting good velocity with this 50 grain load.
Any thoughts on where to go from here? I tried 49 grains biput skipped 49.5. Also tried 48 but skipped 48.5. Only due to time constraints really. Plus I want to get a replacement caliper and zero in on a good seating depth.
Thanks for any advice! I'll have more to report in the weeks to come as I play with this load a bit more.
I also loaded and shot some moly 168 grain hornady BTHPs over 47 grains of 2000mr that were about .5 inch with a called flyer...so I know I'm doing something right!

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12guns
September 16, 2013, 10:27 PM
I'll try a pic, not sure if it will let me yet.

12guns
September 16, 2013, 10:30 PM
Here's the match bullets with 47 grains. Killed me that I had a flyer...my rest wasn't the best, so I'll blame it on that. It also was with a hot barrel. Ignore the other shots. My uncle and I shared the target and w
He was zeroing his rifle in. Messy, I know.

NCsmitty
September 17, 2013, 12:09 AM
Good info on a powder that few have tried. Your use of magnum primers isn't an issue if they are used in workups like that.


NCsmitty

grubbylabs
September 17, 2013, 12:45 AM
I would try those .5 grain increments you skipped. You just might see that group tighten up some more.

I did a work up with a Varget in mine using a .2 grain increment. It was a good learning experience to see the groups change from the minimum charge to the max charge.

I know the .2 grain increment is a little unnecessary, but I enjoy shooting and it was fun to watch the groups change. They went from OK to horrible to acceptable back to horrible and then to OK again. A very interesting experience.

12guns
September 17, 2013, 12:57 AM
Thanks for the replies. I like most of the stuff I have read on the 2000mr, there's just not much data out there yet. I'll load a few more in .5 step from 48.5-50.5. While I don't want to push my luck, I am curious the accuracy of the 50.5 grain load. Most say this powder does best near max, and while I thought 50 was close to max, I had no signs at all of issues that would make me back tha load down. I did have a flattened primer, but only with hornady match brass and it happened on all rounds loaded with hornady brass, even the light loads. No issues with fed or win brass. I also need to measure my seating depth to my rifle, but I'm not sure how much that will affect accuracy.
Can crappy brass (flattening primers) affect accuracy much? That 50 grain load didn't include any hornady brass, but all others did - excluding the match bullets that I shot. If that brass can mess with grouping, then I'll redo my testing with all the same brass. I'm open to advise and thanks again!

12guns
September 17, 2013, 12:59 AM
Also how important is a cool barrel? I always thought it was critical, but a lot of guys seem to be shooting with just a few mins between groups.

grubbylabs
September 17, 2013, 01:19 AM
I am no expert but if I recall their are a few brass makers whose brass is thicker than others, making the case capacity slightly different than the others. I think It is mostly military brass (lake city) But I am not sure.

I would try those 165's with some 4064 and or some Varget, those two powders seem to be in the top 3-5 powders for accuracy, My best groups are with with 4064 and are clover leafs, I use that load combination as the standard to judge all other component combos against. I use mixed brass IMR 4064 and Rem 9 1/2 mag primers.

Varget does not perform as well for my gun as 4064 does but it has a huge following for a reason.

ArchAngelCD
September 17, 2013, 04:52 AM
IMO, when working up loads and testing accuracy it's best to use groups of brass which are the same. Mixed brass can effect the results of your tests.

When using a magnum primer with some powders and cartridges you can open up the ES and SD numbers which in turn can effect accuracy. I would re-test those loads with a standard primer when you can get a hold of some. Until you do try the same loads with a standard primer I wouldn't come to any accuracy conclusions.

Thanks for the report on Power Pro 2000-MR.

12guns
September 17, 2013, 10:05 AM
Thanks guys!

scottishkat
September 17, 2013, 09:35 PM
I am interested in this powders performance I would like to hear any info about temperature sensitivity. If its like RL19 or 22. Purchased some last month for a try in either 260 rem or 308 win. Try fedreral 210M primers they have always worked well in my 308's and came highly recommended.

Keep us posted.

Bob

12guns
September 17, 2013, 10:55 PM
I'll shoot some more this weekend and report back, but honestly I'm not the one to do any real temp testing. If I narrow down a good load, I'll be happy to re shoot it this fall in cooler tempeture a but that's about as high tech as I get.

witchhunter
September 18, 2013, 05:55 PM
I would sort brass by headstamp and start over if you are looking for accuracy loads. Also you can adjust your seating depth after you get the powder load you like. I also would recommend a standard primer retest with the same loads. You never know...each rifle is different.

12guns
September 19, 2013, 01:07 AM
Good advise. I just finished up a few more loads to try. Some are the same, but I used all Federal brass and my seating depth is more consistent at 2.80. I have 48, 48.5, and 50 grains to try out this weekend. I also will shoot the 47.5 that I already had loaded but didn't shoot last time. I stuck with the magnum primers since most of my existing brass is already primed. I'd like a load to work with them, but standard primers will be my next step if these still don't perform like I want them to.
I think a lot of my problem was the poor rest I had the other day. It was old and just didn't hold as steady as I would like. I now have a better adjustable rest. Can't shoot tight groups without that! I'll update after I shoot this weekend.

12guns
September 22, 2013, 11:14 PM
Today I shot another round of mostly the same olds with a much better rest. Still not very good. I finished up with a round of light loaded match bullets that were .5" just to be sure it wasn't me or the gun. So what would you guys suggest? I'm thinking a 46 and 46.5 load just to see the results. I also amcurious what an even hotter load of 50.5 or 51 would do since I haven't seen any worrisome signs of too much pressure and the fact that this powder shoots best near max. Your thoughts? I did pick up some IMR 4895 but I would like to get the added velocity of the 2000mr if possible. Any tips would be great. Oh, and this was stil with 250 magnum primers. Should that be my first thing to change?

jwrowland77
September 22, 2013, 11:29 PM
I wouldn't worry about the magnum primers and they work fine. I have a 7mm Rem Mag that uses mag primers so I just use CCI 250 in both so I don't accidentally mix them up. Only one primer to keep track of.

What's the max charge for the 168? I know for the 175gr it's 47.7.

Here's the best group out of the workup I did today for my match ammo SMK 175gr using a near max load of 47.5 of 2000-mr. 100yd best grouping. I did notice that the groups did close up the hotter the load got. This group is about the same spot I sighted in at with factory federal 175gr SMK. I had absolutely 0 signs of high pressure. Bolt opened like I was shooting any other factory load.

I don't know if I'd workup in .5 grain increments but rather .2 or .3 if you decide you want to go a little hotter than max. If you see any signs at all that your at high pressure back off immediately and don't shoot anymore.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/23/e2ypyda8.jpg

12guns
September 22, 2013, 11:46 PM
Thanks for the help. I'll try a lighter load first then might play in .2 increments down from max and slightly over (still no signs of pressure at 50gr). I doubt it will get any better over max, and maybe I shouldn't even go there but my curiosity wants to push slightly farther. Is there any reason to close the .5 gaps and try some in the same 47-50 range but with smaller steps?

jwrowland77
September 23, 2013, 12:04 AM
I believe in the OCW that .3 grain increments are used.

What I normally do is when I find a load that shoots good using the .5gr steps, then I'll load some more rounds .3 below and .3 above. I'll load 10 of each of those to see and verify what works best. YMMV though.

Bart B.
September 23, 2013, 08:23 AM
I don't see any test range the OCW tests are shot at. So here's some info about shooting OCW's at different ranges.

A 3/10ths grain spread of powder loaded in good ammo and shot from a good rifle will shoot 1/2 MOA all day long at 200 yards. Therefore, if you're expecting to see a change in bullet drop at that range with that charge increment between loads, it probably won't happen.

At 300 yards or less, a 2 grain increment in charge weights is the minumum to use. In some rifles, several 20-shot groups with a 1 grain increment between them, their groups at 300 to 500 yards will overlap some amount.

Run some ballistic software with 1 and 2 whole grain increments for the load you're testing. Check the bullet drop in 100 yard increments down range starting at 100 yards. Note the drop difference for each charge weight increment. If the groups you shoot your stuff at that range are bigger than a given charge increment, your stuff won't resolve that incremental change. The more they overlap, the bigger your increment charge weight has to be if you want to see a meaningful change in drop.

An example using Berger's software.... With a 100 yard zero, 49 grains of IMR4064 under a 175-gr. bullet leaves a .30-06 at 2700 fps and drops below the line of sight about 33 inches at 400 yards. Cutting the powder charge by 2 grains to 47 makes the bullet leave at 2600 fps. The drop at 400 yards goes to 35 inches. That's 2 inches at 400 yards; 1/2 MOA, for a 2-grain change. At 200 yards, the drop difference between these charge weights' is about 4/10ths inch or 2/10ths MOA; at 600 yards, about 9 inches or 1-1/2 MOA. With a 1/2 grain increment in these charge weights, the drop difference at these ranges will be 1/4th the amounts shown.

How accurate does your stuff have to be shot in order to see the difference in charge weights down range on paper?

12guns
September 27, 2013, 07:50 PM
One more question...
I measure the distance touching the rifling to be 2.93. My Ruger 77 magazine will accept 2.87. I have been loading at 2.80 COAL. Are there any educated guesses about how longer or shorter will affect accuracy? I should have measured before I tried some of these loads but didn't.

jwrowland77
September 27, 2013, 08:25 PM
One more question...
I measure the distance touching the rifling to be 2.93. My Ruger 77 magazine will accept 2.87. I have been loading at 2.80 COAL. Are there any educated guesses about how longer or shorter will affect accuracy? I should have measured before I tried some of these loads but didn't.

You just have to try it out and see what your rifle likes. If you don't mind single loading, try 2.900, if you do, try 2.870, 2.860. If you're shooting comps with it, you'll single load any way.

If it was me, I would probably try 2.830, 2.860, 2.900, but that's just me. I tested my 7mm RM by going longer but it loved being .025 off the land. I tried .010 off and .035 off, and I kept going back to .025 off.

12guns
September 28, 2013, 01:04 AM
I loaded a few longer to see if they shoot any better. I hope to do some shooting Sunday.

Oh, and just for kicks I loaded some 110 grain v-max bullets with the 2000mr powder! 46 grain charge and jumped to 50 grains...50 grain was fine with a 165 bullet with no pressure signs. Might not shoot worth a crap, but I had the bullets for a blackout. "Load 'em if you got 'em" right? LOL

jwrowland77
September 28, 2013, 06:41 AM
I like them v-max bullets. Good shooting little bullets. Looking forward to a range report.

12guns
September 29, 2013, 10:08 PM
Shot some this afternoon. Better, but still not great results. I'll admit I didn't let the barrel cool completely between groups, only waited a couple mins. E 110 grain vmax shot pretty good for a random charge I picked. And at 50 grains of 2000 mr it has to be smoking at over 3100fps.
The longer COAL seemed to help with accuracy, but the 4895 43 grains was seated at 2.80 and shot great considering a very hot barrel. I'll look up some chrony results on a similar set up to make sure the velocity is there for hunting and proceed with narrowing down the 43 grains of 4895 further.
Here's a coupe pics with load details. Coal was not consistent but will be on the next batch.

12guns
September 29, 2013, 10:09 PM
Pic...

12guns
September 29, 2013, 10:11 PM
Pic

jwrowland77
September 30, 2013, 12:14 AM
On the IMR4895 43gr load, I would investigate around that one a little more. I would go .2/.3 below and .2/.3 above and shot 5-10 shot groups. I don't know what the min is for IMR4895 but if it's lower than 43, you might want to take a look at it any way just to see.

That 2000-mr load is looking good. I would probably do the same as above with it as well.

12guns
September 30, 2013, 12:54 AM
I'll do just that. I wish I could get better grouping with a hotter charge of 2000mr, but my rifle may not do it. 46 grains is still sufficient for hunting so I'll see how it works out. I have a whole pound of the imr 4895 and will look into the 43 grain load more. IMR lists 42.7 as min with a 165 grain bullet.

I also loaded some of the 175 Bergers tonight with 47-48 grains of 2000 mr in. .5 increments. It's a nice looking bullet, so I hope it shoots. My seating depth is max for my magazine at 2.877. The longer coal seemed to help with this powder.

For my first round of rifle loading it's been fun and I've learned I may not be the right person to play with this new powder. I've had fun, but have run through 100 bullets in no time!!

My uncle has 8 lbs of free (to me) IMR4064, so that may be what I focus on with the Berger hunting bullets. Should be easier to nail down a. Load with more data available. Thanks for all your help.

Oh, and I was shocked the 110 grain vmax shot near an inch with 50 grains of 2000mr...that's got to be pushing 3200fps!

12guns
September 30, 2013, 12:56 AM
Should I wast my time with the charges over 46 grains that had two shots close but always a flyer? Could have easily been me and that hotter charge would yield the velocity I want. Guess I'll never know unless I shoot 'em again.

jwrowland77
September 30, 2013, 06:19 AM
Should I wast my time with the charges over 46 grains that had two shots close but always a flyer? Could have easily been me and that hotter charge would yield the velocity I want. Guess I'll never know unless I shoot 'em again.

Yeah, I would probably do a bigger sample size per charge. Like maybe a 5-shot group. Just to make sure.

Never know, that 4064 may be the powder your gun really likes. I'd try it out too.

popper
October 1, 2013, 06:05 PM
Where does the 2000MR fall in the burn rate chart? I don't find it. I've used varget, 335, 4895 AR comp, 8205XBR. Cast & 168 Amax, MOA @ 100; I think the Amax is a stronger bullet. I assume a 1:10 twist? What distance are you shooting?

Ike Arumba
October 1, 2013, 09:35 PM
Western Powders' burn rate chart at www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/burn_rates.pdf places PP 2000-MR at the same rate as H380.

12guns
October 1, 2013, 11:52 PM
I was shooting at 100 yards. I'm embarrassed to say I don't know my rate of twist, but it's a stainless ruger mk2 model 77. The vmax kind of surprised me, I loaded with the 50 grain charge not expecting it to do anything but shoot fast. With some refinement it should do an inch or less which I consider good for a smokin' lightweight round. Now if I could only get the 165's or 175's to shoot as good! If I don't have any better luck tomorrow at the range, I'll find a good load with imr4064 and the 175 grain Berger VLD. That should be easier for an ammature like me to nail down.

RentaCop
October 2, 2013, 03:55 AM
Where does the 2000MR fall in the burn rate chart?

An Alliant tech stated a little slower than RL-15. That is what I used to develop loads in the 8x57.


Western Powders' burn rate chart at http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-con...burn_rates.pdf places PP 2000-MR at the same rate as H380.

I have little experience with H380. But my work with Pro-2000MR, shows it's tracking right along with IMR-4007SSC, charge for charge velocity wise in the 8x57 FWIW.

12guns
October 2, 2013, 05:07 PM
Made it out to the range today and with 47, 47.5, and 48 grain charges seated out at 2.877 which is as long as my mag will allow, they still don't shoot like I want groups are consistently 1.5-2". I didn't try around the 46 grain charge because it's a fairly light load and I can get better accuracy and speed with imr4895 or 4064. I'm not sure but I would suspect that I'm not doing something right with the overall Langton or something. I'll still explore some more with the 2000 mr, but for now I have found a good load using 175 grain VLD's and imr 4064 so that's what I will focus on. The pic is of 43.5 grains of 4064, which is plenty accurrate for hunting.
I have had several of the 2000 mr loads shoot two holes almost touching but there is always a third flyer that I'm fairly sure I'm not pulling. Thanks for all the help and I'll post back should I find a decent load with th2000 mr.

jwrowland77
October 2, 2013, 06:28 PM
That's a pretty good looking group there. I know not with the 2000-mr but still a good group to go hunting with for sure.

Are shooting from bags or bipod or full out rest?

12guns
October 2, 2013, 07:33 PM
"Lead sled" style full rest. Made by stonypoint I think. I'll use the 2000mr to play with until I'm out. Again, I think if I backed off to 46 gr I could nail down a load, but honestly if I'm not going to get the added MV then I'll stick to 4064...mainly because I have so much available. Most of my groups are consistent, yet large. From time to time I can feel when I pull one, but other times I feel like everything was just perfect yet the third shot is off by 1.5" and not in a pretty triangle. I've shot some of the charges three times now just to rule out shooter error. I ink I'll load a couple more of the 165's with 2000mr at a hot-but not max load with a couple different seating depths. I haven't yet tried below 2.80, so who knows...maybe my gun will like more jump with this bullet and powder combo.
My original 50 grain group was close enough to refine for hunting IF I can shrink it down a bit with a different seating depth and standard primers.

12guns
October 7, 2013, 03:49 PM
Finally got a decent group at about anime with 47.6 grains of 2000mr. Problem is I think I over tightened my stock after breaking it down to polish the trigger some more. Muzzle velocity was 2710, 2715, and 2737. I'll try to duplicate that
Pad and hope it holds after readjusting the stock.
Odd thing was at 50 grains I had two shots at 2801 that we're touching but the third was 4" away at 2795 fps. Now that I'm out of 165 gr bullets and almost out of powder I'll have to wait til I find more to proceed.

jwrowland77
October 7, 2013, 06:33 PM
Check Ft Thompson. Last time I was in there, they had a bunch.

12guns
October 8, 2013, 06:36 PM
47 grains has some potential assuming I pulled a couple shots, which if think I did. This was with 175 grain Berger VLD. As I find more powder I'll shot more and try to duplicate that load.

jwrowland77
October 8, 2013, 09:04 PM
I think that's close to my load for 175gr SMK. 47.5, but, 47 was a good load as well. Actually both loads were pretty dang close, so I went with the hotter load to get a touch more MV.

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