What do I have? ( Identify Please)


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sm
March 24, 2004, 05:08 AM
What do I have?


Markings: One side of primer in semi circle: 90 – MM – T24
Below the primer in semi circle: Lot NOR – 1-77 1953


Fired height: 23 11/16”
Case head dia: 5 1/16”
Case mouth dia: 3 11/16”
[ and the primer extends into the case approx. 11”…never knew that, makes sense tho’]

As a kid my dad was in the National Guard. He was involved in many aspects, retired after 32 or so years- last assignment was from some type of Intelligence (I think). Retired mid '70's...perhaps...dunno. At one time early on he was involved with tanks.
Attended Summer Camp at Camp Robinson, AR,- Fort Chaffee, AR,- Fort Polk, LA, and Fort Hood, TX [ best I could I gather - possibly others]

So I’m over at mom's, digging through "stuff" and find this old casing and drag it home. Understand dad left the family a l-o-n-g time ago, figures it was left at the old house and mom moved this and other “stuff” into her newer home some 25 yrs ago. Communication with dad is difficult at best, I’ve tried too many times over the years, let’s just say he made a choice and not an option to ask him.

So I thought I’d clean it up and find out what I had, what powder charge, weight of projectile, range…what the heck fired it...any and all info would be appreciated.

I did a search trying to find a couple of old threads Mike Irwin, Tamara and others gave great information about artillery used by various battleships and tanks, a couple of web sites were cited…no luck.

Thanks.

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NightWolfe
March 24, 2004, 05:51 AM
If I had to guess how bout THIS (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/90.htm) ..

otherwise you can try searching through HERE (http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/index.html)

The Federation of American Scientists (http://www.fas.org/) site is a wealth of information .. which is where the previous come from ..

good luck ..

EDIT: Found something similar ..

5567 U.S. 90mm Brass shell casing M19 - Excellent plus brass shell casing, headstamp 90MM M19 LOT NOR 5-54 1953 with ink stamped markings AMM LOT JA-3-20, FLASHLESS, SHELL M71. I believe that these were used inthe main gun of the M46 and M47 tanks, and also with some of the "motor gun carriage/ tank destroyers". Primer removed INERT $95.00 (View Picture (http://oldguns.net/5567.jpg))

Preacherman
March 24, 2004, 06:00 AM
I'd agree that it's probably a 90mm. tank shell, but with a 1953 datestamp, it wouldn't be one of the current generation - how about a shell from the main gun of an M26, M47 or M48 main battle tank? They used the 90mm. gun, later upgraded to a 105mm. gun in the last two models of the M48 and on into the M60 range. The date stamp would fit.

Tamara
March 24, 2004, 06:26 AM
I know the T7 90mm gun (like on the M-36 tank destroyers) was based on an antiaircraft gun and used long flash-tube primers. Not sure if the later M36 90mm did or not.

M-36's were certainly in our inventory up until the Korean War era, when they became popular MAP giveaways due to the shortage of available M-46's and M-47's.

sm
March 24, 2004, 06:26 AM
NightWolfe :
"View Picture" resembles what I have, except the one I have the markings are in a semi circle and there is no "flashless".

I admit, I know nothing about this stuff, how I would have enjoyed seeing these tanks and the night firing I heard other kids talked about...I was not afforded that opportunity.

I will continue my search and the site is a great start, thank you.

Preacherman...thanks, I don't know my tanks...not having the "chance" and "situations and priorites" changed ...I honestly was turned off, hurt and needed to take care of sibs and a mom. Some stuff sours a kid on some interests...and he quits being a kid. I think you and others understand.

Story goes the "charges" were similar, somehow the wrong charge was used in a tank and it blew up at Ft Chaffee one year. IIRC a death and serious injuries resulted...we knew he was at Ft Chaffee and doing tanks...we didin't know if he was one of the unfortunate.

The other is , deer were rampant at Ft Chaffee. During night firing the deer figured the range and ran between the tanks and targets...a sight to behold...never a deer hit - to smart.

Sigh...maybe someday I will see one of these things and see it in action...

Tamara, I'm as dumb as a brick on this stuff...turned off as I said. So I need to do research and understand all this new language.

That time in life you see where some neices and nephews are asking questions about a certain grandpa...here I go again...just the role of an uncle this time...their parents ( my sibs) darn sure don't know...they know less than I and I know very little .

Grandma ( mom ) doesn't...and one doesn't know how much longer she will be around...

Sigh...one must do what one must do...

Tamara
March 24, 2004, 01:14 PM
So I need to do research and understand all this new language.

T7: 90mm gun used on the M-36 Tank Destroyer. Based on an AA gun, with modified trunnions and recoil system to fit in the same turret ring as a 3" AA/76mm AT gun or a 105mm howitzer. When using T30E16 HVAP, it was capable of knocking out a Jagdtiger at 900 yards (as was proven at Rimling.)

M-36: US late WWII tank destroyer, designed to replace the ad hoc M-10. Sometimes known as the "Jackson". Armed with a 90mm T7 gun and based on an M-10A1 chassis.

M36: The 90mm gun used on later US tanks, not to be confused with the M-36 Tank Destroyer.

MAP: Military Assistance Program, by which we gave away a bunch of old WWII stuff, like M-36 Tank Destroyers, to folks who promised to hate the commies a whole lot, and trained them to use it.

Josey
March 24, 2004, 05:28 PM
ARE YOU CERTAIN IT IS INERT!? Recently, a guy brought an old WWII shell into the PD. HE and live!! It was something to see when it was set off. Left a biiiig hole in the ground.

BluesBear
March 25, 2004, 06:40 AM
Fired height: 23 11/16”
Case head dia: 5 1/16”
Case mouth dia: 3 11/16”
[ and the primer extends into the case approx. 11”…never knew that, makes sense tho’]


Josey,

That sound like the description of a fired casing to me.

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