Your favored 7.62x51mm/308 defensive cartridge


PDA






fragout
September 18, 2013, 01:45 PM
I seen a thread about 5.56mm, so I figured I would ask the same thing, but with 7.62x51mm/308 in mind.

What load of the above caliber is your preferance for a defensive load?

EDIT:

Only interested in 7.62x51mm/308 for the purpose of this thread. Please leave all others out, as my intention has not to do with comparisons of other calibers.
Thanks.

If you enjoyed reading about "Your favored 7.62x51mm/308 defensive cartridge" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
HorseSoldier
September 18, 2013, 02:40 PM
Any one that goes bang will get the job done.

TexasPatriot.308
September 18, 2013, 03:25 PM
I cant see any .308 cartridge being considered a great defense round if you are talking close quarters unless you live out in the boondocks where it don't matter where the bullet goes after it penetrates two or three walls. as for defense in combat, fmj have always been used, but for me I would want a jhp.

303tom
September 18, 2013, 03:57 PM
Same thing I use on White-tail or anything else a JHP.................

splithoof
September 18, 2013, 04:03 PM
Remington 180 JSPC (as they used to say "the deadliest mushroom in the woods"). Well, bullet technology has come a ways since then, but it should still work very well, at about half the price of the premium offerings.

50 Shooter
September 18, 2013, 04:48 PM
Glaser blue, you did say defensive.

back40
September 18, 2013, 05:02 PM
defense from what?

Reloadron
September 18, 2013, 05:50 PM
While I never entertained the thought of using a 308 Winchester or for that matter a 223 Remington as a defensive (as in home defense) I guess if I did (for reasons I'll never understand) I would use any good hunting bullet like a PSP or JHP flavor in 160 to 180 grain weight class.

Ron

yzguy87
September 18, 2013, 06:08 PM
7.62/308 packs some energy. Id say any decent hunting bullet would do the job (and do it very well too).

AKElroy
September 18, 2013, 06:27 PM
My .308 loves 150 gr. remmy corloked. It is cheap, and drops deer like Thor's hammer. Regularly shoots sub MOA out of my weather warrior.

ACP
September 18, 2013, 06:31 PM
For SHTF any 147-150 gr. surplus should do, for animals, what AKElroy said.

Geno
September 18, 2013, 06:33 PM
I like my 165 grain, hollow point, Sierra Game Kings, over 46 grains of Varget. They are 0.75" accurate at 100 yards in my m70s, and they feed reliably in my M1As.

Geno

Robert101
September 18, 2013, 09:42 PM
For self defense I favor the lighter 150 grain bullet in either FMJ or SP. I really don't mind the penetration of the FMJ for self defense. If someone pulls out a 308 for self defense then it is likely that penetration will be more of an asset than a problem. If not, then that little .224 just might do the trick at close ranges.

Magnuumpwr
September 18, 2013, 10:13 PM
If I had to use my 308, my choice would be my Extreme Shock 160gr SW. FPS= 985 and Ft#'s= 344. Short range/CQ.

fragout
September 19, 2013, 03:05 AM
A list of my current favorite factory loads I have used.

Fed XM80C 149gr
Win Q3130 147gr
Fed (AE) 168gr OTM
Fed (Vital shock) 165gr SGK
SSA 168gr OTM
Win 168gr BST
Black Hills (gold) 168gr TSX
Fed XM118LR 175gr
Fed 168gr GMM

ZGunner
September 19, 2013, 06:07 AM
Any one that goes bang will get the job done.

I'd have to agree with this. Assuming this defensive shot will be within 20 ft, as long as you can hit something you'll have your desired effect.

jonnyc
September 19, 2013, 07:11 AM
+1
Is this really a serious question? If you have the need of any rifle for a particular defense situation, the problem is now well beyond bullet choice.

DeMilled
September 19, 2013, 11:58 AM
I think about the best you are going to find are the Reduced Ricochet Limited Penetration, Winchester PDX1, or a Hornady TAP.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/components/mle-tactical-bullets/mle-rrlp-bullets/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44ZI-a6oI9c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p8C3VmTYtE

http://www.hornadyle.com/products/rifle-ammunition/308-win-tap/110-gr-tap-urban


Military type Ball Ammo will go through plenty of walls.

Ammo designed for expansion will not.

Buy the proper rounds and 308 for defense can be counted on to stop the
threat very well and penetrate fewer walls than 45 ACP JHP.

fragout
September 19, 2013, 01:50 PM
After reading a similar 3 page thread regarding 5.56mm defensive ammo, I was impressed by the work put into it by the various members here that contributed to that thread. ( A good read by the way)

I was simply hoping for similar results in regards to 7.62x51mm.

Thanks to the folks that contributed here.

Arizona_Mike
September 19, 2013, 02:14 PM
I would not use 7.62x51 as an intended home defense or even urban defense environment. Out in the wild, if you hit him you are pretty much going to do the job.

I love 5.56 for home defense and police work since it performs so poorly on construction material. I keep a shotgun for home defense but if my house were more crowded (a goal of mine), I would probably use a 16" AR loaded with Winchester Ranger 64-grain Power-Points. They are excellent in flesh and won't even penetrate a single layer of 5/8 drywall.

These drywall tests are very interesting: http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/test-parameters.html

I would not use a short barrel AR unless it was a 300 BLK using 22/30 cal sabots like the old Remington Accelerator loaded to .223 like velocities.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Owgw7gKFzH8/T9qn8ZKFMGI/AAAAAAAADmk/gM9_9HJD5IQ/s640/Accelerator.jpg

If I absolutely had to use an AR-10 vs an AR-15 for home defense (like if I was in some God-forsaken place like Maryland), I'd load up some sabots with Power-Points. The faster the better.

ElToro
September 19, 2013, 11:22 PM
I have a few mags of 155 TAP ready to go in my m1a scout and grab and go. Then after that some various hunting rounds. After thats gone then 147 FMJ for everything else

Ignition Override
September 20, 2013, 04:32 AM
For use in my Spanish FR8, "non-imitation scout rifles" (i.e. Ruger), anything works.

TRUTH ABSOLUTE
September 20, 2013, 03:56 PM
Hornady TAP URBAN. think there are a couple in 308. Popular in law enforcement circles. I use this one currently.
http://www.hornadyle.com/products/rifle-ammunition/308-win-tap/110-gr-tap-urban

herkyguy
September 20, 2013, 04:15 PM
I've seen Hornady TAP down to 110 grain and then heavy stuff in the neighborhood of 168 grain. but for the most part, my .308 shooting is 150 grain because it's cheap and available.

HankC
September 20, 2013, 04:58 PM
If you don't want the bullet go thru wall after wall and hit the neighbor next door, the German plastics training ammo will be a better 308 home defense ammo if 308 bolt gun is the only weapon you have. I would not use a 308 for anything home defense!

W.E.G.
September 20, 2013, 05:20 PM
If you touch off a .308 indoors without really good ear protection, you better get the bad guy with the first shot.

The blast of that kind of rifle fired in a confined space is going to be profoundly disorienting.

M1key
September 20, 2013, 11:24 PM
The OP didn't specify SD at what range, so I am assuming long...

Federal 168 Gold Medal Match

Lake City M118 Match

M

jagdpanzer347
September 21, 2013, 07:42 AM
147 grain FMJ. I can't imagine using a 7.62x51 rifle for home defense. But if the SHTF, ball will do.

HankC
September 21, 2013, 07:13 PM
"The OP didn't specify SD at what range, so I am assuming long..."

will be hard to explain to policeman when arrive how a long range is a self defense!

CB900F
September 22, 2013, 12:33 PM
Fella's;

Doesn't exist. Don't have a .308 of any version. Don't want one, and ain't gonna get one.

900F

fragout
September 22, 2013, 03:18 PM
Fella's;

Doesn't exist. Don't have a .308 of any version. Don't want one, and ain't gonna get one.

900F
=================================================================================

The quote above = Useless post.

Then why bother posting here at all?

308 bashing, or are you just another idiot that cant read?:neener:

ECVMatt
September 22, 2013, 06:13 PM
Someone better hurry up and tell all those guys in Kenya not to shoot there 7.62x51 rifles indoors or they will hurt their ears!

Just kidding a bit, but it is a good example of going with what you got.

This thread it very interesting to me as I am sort of focusing on the Ruger GSR for pretty much all my needs. I have owned one now for several years and it is a joy to shoot and carry. I do live in the city, but spend most weekends in the desert. It would be nice to have a viable option for the city side of the equation. I like the TAP and PDX, but might consider this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/233209/remington-managed-recoil-ammunition-308-winchester-125-grain-core-lokt-pointed-soft-point-box-of-20

This might also be interesting to experiment with:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/683994/federal-fusion-lite-ammunition-308-winchester-170-grain-spitzer-boat-tail-box-of-20

I would like to see if one of those is reasonably close to POA in comparison to my normal load. I shoot a 150 Grain SP over Varget. I also have a ton of 147 Ball for whatever happens next.

Anyways, I think this is a worth while discussion and like the choices put forth thus far.

Just a quick post script: I have a buddy who lives in a medium sized town up in the Sierras who works his tail off, but struggles to make ends meet. The only firearm he has is a Browning BLR in .308. I think sometimes we forget that not everyone can tailor guns to individual situations and some folks have to make the best use out of what they have. This thread would be most interesting to him if he had a computer...

CB900F
September 22, 2013, 07:23 PM
Fragout;

The question was asked. I answered. I read and comprehend quite well. But there's a section in the tests entitled "reading comprehension" for a reason.

900F

fragout
September 22, 2013, 08:12 PM
Someone better hurry up and tell all those guys in Kenya not to shoot there 7.62x51 rifles indoors or they will hurt their ears!

Just kidding a bit, but it is a good example of going with what you got.

This thread it very interesting to me as I am sort of focusing on the Ruger GSR for pretty much all my needs. I have owned one now for several years and it is a joy to shoot and carry. I do live in the city, but spend most weekends in the desert. It would be nice to have a viable option for the city side of the equation. I like the TAP and PDX, but might consider this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/233...oint-box-of-20

This might also be interesting to experiment with:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/683...tail-box-of-20

I would like to see if one of those is reasonably close to POA in comparison to my normal load. I shoot a 150 Grain SP over Varget. I also have a ton of 147 Ball for whatever happens next.

Anyways, I think this is a worth while discussion and like the choices put forth thus far.

Just a quick post script: I have a buddy who lives in a medium sized town up in the Sierras that works his tail off, but struggles to make ends meet. The only firearm he has is a Browning BLR in .308. I think sometimes we forget that not everyone can tailor guns to individual situations and some folks have to make the best use out of what they have. This thread would be most interesting to him if he had a computer...

=========================================================================

Interesting. Thanks for the links. I spend most of my time with my M1A-A1, and M14S Tanker, and use them for hunting hogs, deer, coyote, elk, and eventually want to hunt moose.

Have also used an issued M14 rifle in a few countries via Uncle Sam.

I have always favored the most precise shooting load I can reliably run thru my rifles, and have decided on the 168gr match loads as the 1 favorite for a defensive sort of setting, and also for hunting hog, and deer.

If I was forced to decide on one load for both hunting and security, it would have to be the following, as my rifles shoot this load well, and have used this load to take all the critters mentioned above, with exception to 2 legged critters.
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/rifle.aspx?id=303

The primary reason I have so much FMJ is that it is more cost effective to stock. ( Hog hunting for me is not economically feasible with a 168gr TSX factory offering.

Have recently begun to reload here, and am also looking into subsonic fodder, but haven't did a lot of hands on with it as of yet.

Since 308 is an extremely popular cartridge, I was thinking that quite a few folks might have their own "pet" load concerning defense/security.




__________________

M1key
September 22, 2013, 08:12 PM
nevermind

M

Art Eatman
September 22, 2013, 08:25 PM
As in Post #32, I figure that you go with what you got. So, in .308, while anything will do just fine, I'd use a hunting-bullet load of 125 to 150 grains. Don't need more, for sure. :)

fragout
September 22, 2013, 09:11 PM
Here is something all might find interesting........

Fed SMK 168gr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBs8sVtVwMc


Barnes TSX (They don't mention what gr bullet)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQx2eHpDVnE


M198 Duplex

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yOnztOOptg

168gr HOR AMAX

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDkO7BXX3WM

Silverbear 140gr soft point

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnIBK5XxxyA

M80 Ball (147gr)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGYF8DTLcj4

Fed Power shock 150gr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Senp6dYkXIY

Win Supreme Nosler ballistic tip 168gr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgbaT-X86ms

Winchester PDX1 Defender 120gr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p8C3VmTYtE

Remington 180gr Core- lokt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KspUUBzKb7w

Win power max 150gr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkKaljE-XkI

Barnes Vor-tex TTSX 168gr
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t4Nibj0AF0

Black Hills BTHP match 168gr

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Qtxm5FdZ-c

If you enjoyed reading about "Your favored 7.62x51mm/308 defensive cartridge" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!