[Lawyerman]

I have come into two nice 870 barrels. One is a 2 3/4" unit, IC choke, plain with bead, 26". The other is a Magnum barrel, Full choke, plain with bead, also 30". They are in beautiful condition. They barrel date to the early 1970's.

I am thinking of having them cut down to 18". A gunsmith owes me a favor, the cost would be nothing and I got a great deal on the barrels. I would mount rifle sights on them. Again, my cost on the mods is $0 versus either selling these and buying "real" riot barrels or keeping them and finding riot barrels in the future.

I understand that the older, unmodified barrels are getting harder to find, especially in good condition so that gives me some pause. Thoughts?

[Fastlane]

Would you consider trading your 30" full choke barrel for a 20" inch rifle sight barrel with an IC and rifle choke? Barrel is in excellent condition.

[Lawyerman]

If it's a Magnum barrel I would be very interested.

[Fastlane]

If by magnum you mean 3 inch and not 3.5 inches then it is a magnum barrel. The barrel has a mattie/parkerized finish. hope this information helps. :) Dose your 30 inch barrel accepts 3 inch shells?

[Lawyerman]

Check your email!

[riverdog]

Win-Win

I've got two 30" FC barrels, one 3" and the other 2 3/4". The most I'd consider is lengthing the forcing cone. Cutting them down would never happen. Glad this worked out.

[Guyon]

Magnum = 3" Super Magnum = 3.5"

It's nice to see that old barrel saved from the saw.

[Lawyerman]

The IC 2 3/4 is still on the chopping block. You can see yourself in the bluing it is absolutely gorgeous. I really don't want to whack it.

[Guyon]

Well, the difference between an 18" barrel and a 26" inch barrel is, well...... 8 inches. (My mama didn't raise no fool). :D

Seriously, you'll lose the choke and once that 8" is gone, you can't put it back. If you don't want to keep it and just buy an HD barrel, you might list it on the trade forum and see if you get any offers to trade or buy.

[Lawyerman]

Thanks, may do that.

[sm]

I'm glad one was saved from the saw...If I didn't have other commitments I'd buy the other.

IME , I rec'd some of the best patterns ever from all my pattern board testing from the plain fixed choke bbls. Some of , if not THE BEST bbls I ever pattterned were a 26" IC and 28"Mod fixed choke plain bbls.

When I get the coins, I will start buying the old plain bbls with fixed choke, that is how good these are. Pattern boards DO NOT lie...these older bbls...yeah I know something. ;)

I could have only one bbl, for everything...FIXED IC at the top of the list...with Modified and Cyl fighting for 2nd place.

[Dave McCracken]

PLEASE do not saw those wonderful old barrels.

Older Remington barrels are among the best ever made, anywhere, anytime. True, straight, and nigh perfect in weight and dimensions.

Being ribless, they run a few oz less than target barrels, and for most shooting the difference is not important.

Some upland hunter putting together a field 870 can use that 26" job. If you check the This Old Barrel thread, you can see that's basically what I'm doing with that hacked off piece of shot pipe.

Riot barrels are not uncommon, and the RS 20" Express one I use on my Deer 870 is built to the old standards. Less than 5" ETE groups at 100 yards with a peep and my old eyes are excellent, and it'll do them all day long. The Remchoke feature means I can dial in the buck pattern I want at a given range to some extent.

[Lawyerman]

Noone seems to have what I need or be interested in trading.

I have a buddy though that has a plain barrel that is not nearly so nice as this one, we will probably swap and I will have it cut down instead.

I really like the 18" barrels, 20" gets heavy, especially when you add the 3 shot extension vs. the 18 inchers 2 shot.

[Fastlane]

I assumed that both barrels are 12 gauge am I correct? We have worked out a trade for the 30' for my 20" RS barrel. What are you asking for the 26" barrel?

[Lawyerman]

Have it in the FS forum, see ad there. Email sent.

[dangmissedit]

"Older Remington barrels are among the best ever made, anywhere, anytime. True, straight, and nigh perfect in weight and dimensions."


Well, maybe. Many of the old Remington barrels are not bored straight. In fact, when cut back to 18", I am often surprised at how thin they are on one side. Brownell's used to sell a measuring device to check wall thickness the full length of the barrel. This problem applies to almost all older barrels, not just Remington.

The newer Remington barrels are better. They are made of much tougher steel and most of them are bored on much newer machines. They still have a problem keeping the bore concentric with the outside of the barrel, but they don't cost $15,000.

[Dave McCracken]

I stand by my statement. A couple barrels here are off center. One's the cut down Express job that was Frankenstein's first barrel. The other is This Old Barrel. Both pattern true, though TOB is impacting a bit high.

IMO, more newer barrels run off center than of old. The LC bought last year is long, light and true. So is the 1955 one on #6.

As far as tougher steel, the old stuff is tough enough....

[dangmissedit]

Well, as they say, everyone has an opinion.....you know the rest.....

When you have cut as many barrels as I have, you tend to have an informed opinion. I have seen cut down barrels with wall thickness a little as .020" on one side. In my opinion, that is much to thin at the 18" mark. Newer barrels tend to run closer to .070". The exception is the light conture barrels which seem to be made of even tougher steel

Let me remind you of the class action lawsuit against Dupont over failures of Remington shotgun barrels. (At the time, Dupont owned Remington) Dupont didn't lose the suit, but they paid $17,000,000 in damages and Remington changed the design and type of steel used in their barrels.

I'm not saying that Dave is wrong, but his experience is different then mine.
Hey, believe what you want. It won't hurt my feelings.:cuss:

[sm]

It is not what you say sometimes - but how you say it
One never knows whom all is on a BB, nor their experiences or background, some never reveal

Personally I see no reason to cut down a bbl, especially a fixed choked bbl. Nor do I see a need to fiddle with ports,for 99% of the folks. Why?

Plenty of short bbls available on the market today. Many with the "ehancements" already or easily adaptable. Now in the old days with fixed chokes a fella would bust the end out of one trying to shoot through a mud obstructed bore...I've bought a few.

Then again I've seen my share of new guns all gussied up and high dollar split , crack and KB using the factory loads too.

Not long ago CDNN had 18" bbls for $50 with bead sights to fit 870s IIRC...Unwrap package ,put onto gun...easy enough for me...

[dangmissedit]

OK. I think I understand now. One is not allowed to dissagree with the locals, especially the boss man. Well I is sorry boss. I won't do it again and I'll be sure to wear my hip boots the next time I check this forum.;)

[sm]

I'm not a boss, a moderator ...or anything...

I'm no big deal. THR has graciously allowed me to be a member that is all.

Disagree, oh we agree to disagree. Heck I have been disagreed with and had the threads locked. Probably made the ignore lists on quite a few folks "user cp". I have and still get some pretty nasty pm's. I have made apologies to members and have a quite a few recipes for "crow"...it don't taste like chicken no matter how you fix it.

The reality is , the older I get , the more I realize what I don't know. I do tend to be "practical" and not one to jump into everything new and the current rage. Hell I miss some of the paper taget loads, and fixed choked bbls. About to turn 49 so I am a young "old fart".

I can only share what I have experienced - right or wrong. Too many folks - no matter what age - a whole bunch smarter than I . Heck we have some ladies that know more in their little finger than I ever will. Folks like Tamara, pax, Kaylee...to mention only a few - not afraid to admit it either.

So if I offended you , I'm sorry.

I am hard headed and prefer to attack the argument and not the poster. Granted I'm not as prolific as some with words ( Tamara, pax, Kaylee...If I may again use as examples) , so this medium sometimes gets things tangled and garbled...add my writing and ...I come across wrong.

My nature is to agree to disagree, I'm also one that is not afraid to stand my ground ...I am alive because I have done just that.

So lets try this again.

dangmissedit welcome to THR!

[Dave McCracken]

Disagree away,dang. You're not being personal, petty nor scatological. Those are the things that get one edited, warned and/or banned. We welcome debate, all this heat may generate some light.

I sure don't know it all. I do know off center barrels existed before 870s, I've seen some on Elsies, Fulton Arms, and Greeners as well as hardware guns.

As to that lawsuit, no firearms experts that testified said the barrels were at fault. All the damage was consistent with that shown by firing shotguns with a plug of snow or mud in the muzzle. Unfortunately, the court was ruled by cretins, and stupidity abounded.

"It's almost impossible to make anything foolproof, because fools are so ingenious"- HL Mencken.

The changes in Rem barrels were more designed by lawyers than engineers. And while many of those barrels have held up, some shoot different loads to wildly different POIs. They're also heavier.

BTW, DML of this BB shares your opinion, and he's an experienced smith.

[riverdog]

Just did a search trying to find info on Remington shotgun barrels. It seems that following the Garza v. Remington lawsuit Remington did change the steel to a stronger (chrome-moly?) steel. The settlement letters that went out stated: The lawsuit alleged that the value of the shotguns was reduced because the barrels are not strong enough and sometimes burst in normal use, causing damage to the gun and, in some cases, serious bodily injury. Remington, DuPont and Sporting Goods deny such claims and assert that (1) barrel bursts are extremely rare and occur only when improper ammunition is used, including improperly loaded ammunition generating much greater than normal firing pressure, or when the barrels are obstructed, and (2) the Remington owners' manual and the accompanying firearms safety booklet give full and adequate warning of such hazards. The enclosed check constitutes a compromise of the claim that your shotgun has lost value. The amount is not intended to represent the cost of a new barrel, and you are free to use the money however you wish.

The $17 million fund from which your check is paid is only one part of the settlement. In addition, Remington now makes, and will continue to make, barrels for Model 870, 1100, and 11-87 12-gauge shotguns from a different type of steel, which can withstand higher pressure.

That said, Remington now markets both a standard barrel and a Light Contour (LC) barrel. Which is the stronger barrel? Perhaps this question should be directed toward Remington, but considering the lawsuit sensitivity they probably have following the Garza case, I doubt they'd want to go on record saying one of the barrels is weaker than the other.

Any thoughts?

[dangmissedit]

Believe it or not, I am not trying to be contentious. (Oooh. That's a big word) I came across this forum several months ago and after lurking for awhile it seemed like a "good old boys club". That isn't a bad thing, but it doesn't leave much room for dissagreement.

I agree with Dave that off center bores have been a problem for a long time. The problem is that without the proper tools you have no way of telling how much off center the bore it until you cut it. All you have to do is look around a good size gunshow and you will see some scarry stuff. Not long ago, I saw a cut down 1100 barrel that was so thin that you could squeez it with your fingers. Since the cut was made at 20", the pressure would have dropped to a safe level. Still, it could be a problem.

The other potential problem, which I'm sure has been discussed here, is rechambering a 2 3/4" barrel to 3". Fireing a heavy 3" load in one of these old barrels could be very dangerous.

I see very little reason to cut down an old barrel. There are lots of cheap 18" barrels out there that are better suited to HD use. Unfortunately, there also a lot of "Bubbas" that insist on butchering their guns to save a few bucks.

[Dave McCracken]

No offense taken, dang. I think all we really disagree on is the quality of old Remington barrels.

The grapevine sez that Hastings is planning on bringing out an 870 TRAP barrel like the one for the 1100 they intro'd a few years back. High rib, overbore and house chokes. It might be an interesting test to see how modern French steel compares with the old US made stuff, as well as overall quality and finish.

As to whether new vs old Rem pipes are best, you may want to check the Archives for a Comparison of 870 Barrels thread we did.