A thread about .32 acp


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The Good
September 19, 2013, 01:02 AM
Hey guys, I came here with the intention of learning a little about the .32 and noticed a few threads where different .32 acp handguns were being discussed. I don't have anything to contribute about those specific guns, but I am interested in more info on them and other .32 acp guns and the cartridge itself.

I was almost positive I was gonna get a revolver for my next gun, but then I startrd thinking about the possibility of a semi.. In the past i had a semi in .380 and while the recoil was very easy to handle, I still thought it was too much for such a small round. In other words, if i'm gonna choose a round with less power, i should make sure i get a significant decrease in felt recoil, at least to the point that i can execute accurate follow up shots at a noticeably higher rate.

So, having no experience with the .32, my question is this: if i had two firearms that weighed the same, one chambered in .380 and one in .32, how significant would the drop in recoil be?

Another question: i notice there aren't a ton of new .32 handguns available(at least where i live, the worst gun state in the union). Is the round itself unpopular? Are there drawbacks to it aside from it's size? Thanks in advance guys.

Also interesting: i was talking to my Dad about the .32 on the way to the gun store and i decided I was gonna look at any .32 they might have. There ended up being a really great looking colt 1903. I didn't have nearly enough money for the thing, but i when i held it, it felt like it had been designed for my hands. I had never heard of a colt 1903 beforr.. I was really impressed.

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Cokeman
September 19, 2013, 01:13 AM
This is a thread about .32 acp and a little bit about .380, not what other calibers are better. The first person to say that .32 or .380 are too small to use for self defense and then recommend something bigger, especially .45 acp is a gigantic jerk.

rondog
September 19, 2013, 01:27 AM
Even though I own two .32acp pistols, a 1914 Mauser and a French MAB, I really know little about the caliber. I've shot them a few times, the recoil isn't bad, I'd say less than my .380.

I wouldn't use either for CCW, but that's mainly because I don't know the pistols well enough to trust them, and I own many others more suited for the job. Both needed some tinkering to get them running, which makes me nervous, and I don't trust striker-fired pistols anyway. Especially old ones like these.

But the ammo that I fired in them seemed to be more powerful than I was expecting. If I were to carry one, I believe I'd stick with FMJ's, but that's JMHO.

Hunter2011
September 19, 2013, 01:40 AM
They only have about twice the power of a .22LR. So I can't think recoil could ever be a problem, no matter what platform you use to shoot it in.
I would not mind to buy a Keltec P32 for deep concealment, but I don't think there is even one of them in my country, South Africa. If I could buy one I would have. If shot placement is fine the little bullet will do the job.

Then I also would not mind to get a target revolver for this cartridge. Apparently it is a inherently accurate round. So if you can get a dedicated target handgun for it, it might be a good silhouette handgun. I would have bought that too..

MICHAEL T
September 19, 2013, 01:47 AM
Lots of people from Police to citizens for around 100yrs or so. Carried or kept 32 revolvers ,semi Autos for self defense . Then the. world got internet and nothing less than a 9mm 357 or 45 auto will work against. Bad guy.
All the ladies in my family carry 32 KelTecs. I have one my self . I do like 380 KT a little better But again like the 32acp it won't stop a piss off flea :rolleyes: So I am just wasting my time with it also.

Buy what you want can shoot and control If for carry I would say KelTec 32 is small light and very little recoil. Blow back action 32 like NAA Guardian SeeCamp, and other in blow back design have more felt recoil.


,

critter
September 19, 2013, 06:08 AM
I have a NAA Guardian in .32 auto and a Ruger LCP in .380. IMHO, the NAA has SIGNIFICANTLY MORE recoil than the Ruger. Go figure!

The NAA is straight blowback and, even though it is quite heavy for size, felt recoil and muzzle flip is quite pronounced. One other reason is that there is not a lot to hold onto with it.

Phantom Captain
September 19, 2013, 07:17 AM
I think the .32 shoots nicer and felt recoil is definitely less than a .380 in a gun the same size. How do I know? Well I have a PPK/s in .380 and a PPK in .32. The .32 is definitely easier, nicer and has less recoil. Because of that it's very easy to line up second and third shots etc.

I love both my PPK and PPK/s, some of my all time favorite pistols and I carry them both.

Don't let anyone tell you different, .32s are FUN!!!

Vodoun da Vinci
September 19, 2013, 07:32 AM
I'm a .32 ACP aficionado in general and specifically a lover of the Colt Model M in .32 ACP. I regard the Model M as possibly the best pocket pistol ever built. I own 2 and have a third one being researched. Here is my inherited Model M built in 1918 with my Colt Officers ACP in .45 for comparison.

http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p709/VodoundaVinci/Colt1903and1911_zpsa200a184.jpg

I am reloading soon for the .32 ACP as I feel a lot of the current ammo is rather anemic compared to what it can be if hand loaded. There is no doubt that the .32 ACP has been neglected to some degree due to the popular opinion that it is not suitable for self defense.

With concealed carry now allowed in all 50 states, more and more people are carrying and many of them simply cannot conceal full size or even compact pistols in 9mm, .40 .45. The advantage of the .32 ACP is lower felt recoil and conceal ability. My wife is very comfy shooting it and our Model M's are very accurate in rapid fire at 21 - 30 feet.

The advantage of a .32 ACP is that it is in yer pocket when you need it and can unleash a rapid volley to a critical area without huge muzzle blast and recoil.

I'm a huge fan of the .32 ACP and will carry mine when Illinois gets it all set up. I don't feel outgunned at all - I have 9mm and .45 and .357 and can shoot well with all of them. My carry will be a 95 year old .32 ACP.

VooDoo

Tomac
September 19, 2013, 08:12 AM
Action type makes a difference in perceived recoil as well. A locked-breech .380 (like the SIG P238 or Colt Mustang) has about the same perceived recoil to me as a blowback .32 (like the Beretta Tomcat) but the Tomcat's perceived recoil is less than a blowback .380.
Tomac

Storm
September 19, 2013, 12:46 PM
I think that many folks have come to realize that shot placement is critical regardless of the caliber. In my experience, with a small pocket sized guns, the .32 results in less recoil and muzzle flip (of course depending on recoil system as noted above by critter) quicker and more accurate follow-up shots, putting more rounds accurately onto target.

For subcomoacts I would go with 9mm as a minimum such as my P290. For deep concealment I consider .32 to be the pick of the litter.

Mat, not doormat
September 19, 2013, 04:36 PM
Both .32 and .380 ACP were designed by John Browning, and first found homes in his Pocket guns, produced by both Colt and FN.

One of the issues that crops up a lot with both of these small calibers is that a lot of the early designs of guns chambered for them are blowback operated, like a rimfire, rather than locked breech, like most larger centerfires. This has advantages and disadvantages. In tha advantage column is the the fact that, since the barrel is fixed to the frame, they often give excellent accuracy, with less necessity for the precision fitting that's necessary to accurizing a Browning-type tilting barrel design. Many European police agencies used .32 and .380 service pistols on this pattern, particularly before 9MM took the world by storm. You'll occasionally find such designs used in Bullseye matches, for the "centerfire, but not necessarily .45," segment.

The downside is that the felt recoil is considerably sharper than seems reasonable or necessary to a shooter accustomed to larger caliber locked breech pistols. Walthers and early Colts are excellent examples of small caliber, heavy steel guns that kick, seemingly, more than they have any right to do. This can be disheartening, if one moves to a small caliber for increased shootability, only to find that they haven't gained much, or anything after all.

The various Saturday Night Specials were mostly also blowback pistols in these small calibers, (along with their little brother, the .25 ACP) as are the baby Berettas, like the Jetfire and Tomcat.

The recent revolution was sparked by Kel-Tec, which introduced the locked breech principle to these little cartridges, first in the P32, then the P3AT. The latter was cloned by Ruger as the LCP. These little guns are both lighter and recoil less than their older, metallic framed brethren in these calibers, which is something that doesn't usually happen in guns.

JERRY
September 19, 2013, 10:02 PM
I like the .32acp/7.65mm.

PRM
September 19, 2013, 10:45 PM
OK, I like the .32 ACP.

One of my favorite carry guns is a Manurhin (French) Walther Model PP in .32 ACP. The nine shot (8+1) in this gun is a very respectable package. Its light, easily concealed, with light recoil, fast follow up shots, and very accurate.

The Interarms Walther PPK/s. 32 ACP is a shorter slide version of the PP in SS. Sweet!!!

My NAA Guardian in .32 ACP is a great little gun for deep concealment. A 10 yards and in it has acceptable accuracy (3 inch +- groups). Close in design to the highly sought after Seecamp, it's an easy gun to carry.

For small and light, I have become a recent aficionado of the NAA Black Widow. If someone is looking for a light easily concealed pocket pistol, this gun has a lot to offer. The larger .22 magnum frame, 2 inch barrel, enhanced sights, and over sized grips make this gun something really special. Mine is the .22 magnum/.22 LR convertible. It weighs in at 8.8 ounces. At 15 yards, it will print an easy 2-3 inch groups. The magnum is a pretty potent little round and the .22 LRs make for cheap plinking.

riddleofsteel
September 19, 2013, 10:59 PM
Love my little 1908 Dryse SCMMERDA. Accurate and shoots like a dream. I actually load for the .32 ACP. Kinda neat as it only takes a couple of grains of powder. I think the primer does almost as much.
I always think back to turn of the century Europe when hundreds of thousands of citizens carried vest pocket handguns in self defense and police in many countries were issued larger .32's as service weapons. As I remember, an Israeli security guard once used a .32 ACP to foil a hijacking with a well placed head shot.

gym
September 19, 2013, 11:20 PM
The lighter the gun the more recoil you will get in general. that should hold true with all calibers. If you get a heavy "steel framed" pistol, you will have lees recoil, but lose the concealment factor. Shooting my little seacamp in 32, was more recoil sensitive than most other guns in those calibers, "like a Walther PPK's in 380". If you stick with a Beretta or Walther in either caliber you should be ok. Personally I would not go below the 380 for self defense. Of course you can argue the point all day, but the more powerful bullet is generally the better way to go, with all things being equal.
Don't forget these guns come from an era where there were not a heck of a lot of choices as there are now.
I am sure James Bond would have carried a 9mm, if there was one that was the size of his PPK's, or Beretta, at the time.

capttom
September 19, 2013, 11:34 PM
I had an aluminum framed PPK in 7.65 that was a joy to shoot and literally disappeared in a cross draw position. I miss that gun more than my third wife.
I currently own a Beretta 70 New Puma in the same calibre. It's a bigger gun than the PPK but shoots as well.
I carried the M 70 in lieu of an S&W 642, at least sometimes. Are the 8+1 rounds of .32 as good as 5 rounds of .38? I don't know. The one time I needed a gun to defend myself or a loved one, I put three of the hard little .32 pills into a charging pit bull and it dropped before it could reach my wife.
One thing I know: the SA Beretta is certainly easier to shoot well than the DAO Smith.
What finally settled the carry question for me, though, is the excellent Smith&Wesson CS9, virtually the same size in every dimension to the Beretta, but firing the 9mm P. Easy to carry, great to shoot.

TheNev
September 20, 2013, 07:18 AM
The only two handguns I own similar enough to compare happens to be a stainless PPK/s and a CZ-70.

The 70 is slightly longer, but they both have the same basic pattern. They're both single stack, blowback pistols.

The PPK/s in .380 barks and recoils something fierce and the 70 has very little perceived recoil.

Vodoun da Vinci
September 20, 2013, 07:34 AM
I understand the concept of blowback vs locked breech and have shot a number of .32 ACP pistols side by side with each other during evaluation. My personal favs are the Colt 1903 and the Kel Tec P32.

Shooting both of these pistols side by side, with S&B 73 grain hardball, it is obvious that they handle differently but the perceived recoil out of the Colt (blowback) as opposed to the Kel Tec (locked breech) is minimal for me. I'm 6'3" 185ish and my Wife is 5' 1" and about 120ish.

Recoil even with Buffalo Bore hot loaded 75 grain flat noses is virtually zero and not an issue for either of us. Is it snappier in the Colt? Maybe...but it's still virtually nothing. Perhaps it's because the Colt is so perfect in balance and point ability and a bit heavier, all steel gun.

For .32 ACP and self defense/CCW/pocket guns make mine the Colt 1903 Model M, hands down.

VooDoo

MedWheeler
September 20, 2013, 08:09 AM
I was shopping for a deep-conceal pistol two years ago, and that, of course, led me to the mocro-.380s and the .32 caliber. I own a Grendel P10 (the great-grandfather to the Kel-Tec P3-AT), and had a PPK/S. Neither was especially comfortable to shoot, but both were about as small as I'd want to go in that caliber.

In doing my comparisons, I weighed the pros and cons of the P3-AT and the other contenders in its price/size class, and those of the Kel-Tec P32. The last-shot slide-lock, significant reduction of "snap", and the extra round in capacity, led me to choose the latter, and I have been nothing but pleased with it since.

That being said, the .380 is hurting the .32 in both supply and demand, as so many more easily-carried guns are available in the bigger caliber. Even the 9mm has made its way down to nearly as small as some of the .380 pistols. Most gun-makers are finding it impractical to offer nearly-identical guns, one in each caliber, in the flyweight platforms. Taurus did this with its TCP-series (732 and 738) and soon let the smaller one quietly fade away. Too bad; I would have liked the 732.

If your state is the one I suspect it is, the smaller guns in .32 may not have made the list of "approved" guns for its subjects to be trusted with. Small guns are what moves those small calibers, so demand would simply not be there.

Onward Allusion
September 20, 2013, 08:12 AM
I have the P32, P3AT, NAA 32, LCP, & NAA 380

The softest shooting is the P32. The others are listed from least recoil to most.

- P32 - feels like a 22LR - It's my EDC. Follow-up shots are easy. I can land all shots in the 6" CoM on a B-27E from about 10 yards.

- NAA 32 - a little snappy but still very close to the P32 in recoil.

- LCP - snappy but manageable. Believe it or not, it's almost feels like the NAA 32 in terms of recoil.

- P3AT - about the same as the LCP - I think the LCP is softer shooting because of the more ergonomic design. Both guns are pretty much identical

- NAA 380 - Hurts to shoot. Thumb knuckle actually bled after a half dozen mags. Worst than a Airweight J-Frame snub.


As for new production guns in .32 ACP: KT P32, NAA 32, Beretta Pico (WHEN it gets released), Taurus 732, & Beretta Tomcat. I'm sure there's also some bottom rung new production from a couple of other companies.

It's sad that so many think they need a pocket 9mm and only focus on the caliber's stopping power (oxymoron). Follow-up shots are SO much easier with a 32ACP that I know I would have a better chance hitting the target in a stress situation.

PRM
September 20, 2013, 08:17 AM
John Moses Browning was a firearms design genius. He gave us the Colt 1911, Browning High Power and many others. He also designed the 7.65, .32 ACP cartridge. A little known and often overlooked fact was that one of his favorite carry guns was the FN Model 1910, in 7.65, which he also designed. It was reissued as a military variant with a longer slide and grip as the FN Model 1922. Browning again brought this little masterpiece out in 1955.

weblance
September 20, 2013, 11:13 AM
My Kel-Tec P32 is my EDC. Its a great little pistol that is mild to shoot, accurate, and powerful for such a tiny little thing. The 32acp is a semi-rimmed cartridge. It can suffer from rim lock. What happens is that some ammo is not as long as FMJ. Winchester flat tip, and all hollow point bullets are shorter than FMJ. The rim can slip behind the next round below, and cause the gun to jam. There are work arounds for this. You can install a spacer in the back of the magazine to push the rounds forward to the front strap of the mag. You also can simply avoid Hollow Points, and use FMJ ammo. Thats what I do. I load a Winchester flat tip in the barrel, and the first round in the magazine, then FMJ below that. I have read many threads about 32acp, and some will tell you rim-lock cant happen. I will tell you, it does happen. I tried to make it happen to see for myself, and it will. It will lock up a magazine so that you need to take the floor plate off and dump the cartridges out the bottom. Avoiding hollow points or installing a spacer will eliminate this issue. If you can find a Kel-Tec P32, its a great choice. Once I bought mine, I sold both my LCPs and have never looked back.

Vodoun da Vinci
September 20, 2013, 11:41 AM
I have almost 1000 rounds of flat point (Winchester) thru my 2 Colt 1903 pistols and it is short enough to cause rimlock but never has...I'm *not* saying it "can't happen" in the 1903 but I have tried repeatedly to make it rimlock and have been unsuccessful with any ammunition.

I think there is more to "rimlock" than just a shorter flatpoint/hollow point round and that magazine construction, geometry, and the angle at which the ammunition is loaded into the mag (the steepness of the angle of the grip of the pistol) may play a part in a manifestation of rimlock.

But I have not been able to make my Colt Model M's rimlock even if I manually manipulate the ammo in the mag by shoving a rounds rim over the rim of the round beneath. Again...not saying it "can't happen". Just sayin' I can't make it happen and have not seen it occur.

VooDoo

KYamateur
September 20, 2013, 12:09 PM
I have been searching for a 32 as well. My findings are that the best current offerings are Seecamp ($500 and ammo picky, a little snappy), NAA Guardian ($400 eats anything but has snappier recoil), Kel-Tec P32 (under $300 less recoil, quality hit ot miss, but Kel-Tec will make it right), and Beretta Tomcat ($350-500 eats anything, light recoil, quality better in Stainless Model).

I will buy a stainless Tom-cat if I ever find a good deal on one, or will pick up a P32 if I can find a good used one. If I am going to shoot 32 ACP I don't want it to be snappy either.

Buffalo Bore makes a 32 ACP round that is considered to be a very effective self defense round. It is a hard cast bullet. If I get a 32 I will definitely buy some of it.

I ended up purchasing a Bodyguard 380 last week because a friend had a used one for sale. I don't like the laser and therefore don't use it. I put orange fingernail polish on the front sight and it is accurate as heck from 7-10 yards. The recoil is much less than the Keltec and Ruger LCP. I'm not sure why, but it is a mild shooter. I fired 200 mixed rounds to test reliability and had no problems at all. I bought a ten dollar Blackhawk pocket holster and it slides right in my front pocket easily.

Henryfan1
September 20, 2013, 12:15 PM
I like the old spanish ruby pistol in 32. Really nice shooting little guns.

MedWheeler
September 20, 2013, 04:34 PM
I had indeed forgotten to mention the rimlock issue Weblance covers. His load-up is the same as mine. First two up are WWB flat-tips, and the rest are FMJ (Fiocchi, in my case.)

Vodoun da Vinci
September 20, 2013, 04:43 PM
I have a 500 round box of the 75 grain Rim Rock .313 flat nose hard cast bullets that Buffalo Bore uses in their rounds....I'm gonna hand load some of my own and see what happens before I move on to more potent 94 grain flat points. :neener:

A few weeks ago my Wife and I were shooting our 1903's at the indoor range right next to a couple who were breaking in their Beretta Tomcat. They were shooting Winchester flat nose hardball and having one hell of a time getting more than 2 or 3 rounds without FTE or FTF - they were very inexperienced and I was helping them clear the gun every 3 minutes.

I let 'em shoot my 95 year old Model M and she asked where she could get one as she liked it a lot better, shot better with it, and it fed the same Winchester flat nose flawlessly. We traded ammo to get her thru the session (my Wife's suggestion...) and we took 50 rounds of Winchester for 50 rounds of S&B 73 grain hardball. They had no problems with the S&B and we had no problems with the Winchester.

Dunno if it was teething trouble with the Tomcat or limp wristing or just bad luck but that Tomcat *did not* like Winchester 73 grain FMJ flat points one little bit.:banghead:

VooDoo

KYamateur
September 20, 2013, 06:43 PM
I have a 500 round box of the 75 grain Rim Rock .313 flat nose hard cast bullets that Buffalo Bore uses in their rounds....I'm gonna hand load some of my own and see what happens before I move on to more potent 94 grain flat points. :neener:

A few weeks ago my Wife and I were shooting our 1903's at the indoor range right next to a couple who were breaking in their Beretta Tomcat. They were shooting Winchester flat nose hardball and having one hell of a time getting more than 2 or 3 rounds without FTE or FTF - they were very inexperienced and I was helping them clear the gun every 3 minutes.

I let 'em shoot my 95 year old Model M and she asked where she could get one as she liked it a lot better, shot better with it, and it fed the same Winchester flat nose flawlessly. We traded ammo to get her thru the session (my Wife's suggestion...) and we took 50 rounds of Winchester for 50 rounds of S&B 73 grain hardball. They had no problems with the S&B and we had no problems with the Winchester.

Dunno if it was teething trouble with the Tomcat or limp wristing or just bad luck but that Tomcat *did not* like Winchester 73 grain FMJ flat points one little bit.:banghead:

VooDoo
The Tomcat does not like the flat nose winchesters. They are however one of the few brands that the Seecamp prefers. With most hollowpoints and round nose shells the Tomcat will feed very reliably. I shot several hundreds of rounds through one about 8 or 9 years ago, but traded the gun after I read about alot of durability issues. However, apperently the Stainless (Inox) Tomcat fixed that problem and they are very well built guns. Cost is an issue when you can find a good one though. The P3 is cheap and it eats everything for the most part unless you get a lemon. However, from what I hear they will always make it right. I beleive I read somewhere that the WWB flat nose shells were kind of made for the seecamps. There are only about 4 or 5 brands reccomended to shoot through them and WWB is one of them. I don't have any knowledge of the older larger 32 acp guns, but I have tested and studied the pocket pistols quite a bit. Buffalo Bore is awesome for the guns. I don't know if it will run in the seecamp or not.

JERRY
September 20, 2013, 09:28 PM
back in the 1980s I had a .32acp Beretta Roma, looked like a walther pp clone but a little different. like many things in life I wish I had that one back.

C0untZer0
September 20, 2013, 11:56 PM
Do you shoot the Seacamp one handed?

It seems like you would have to...

usp9
September 21, 2013, 12:19 PM
Do you shoot the Seacamp one handed?

It seems like you would have to...

I shoot mine single handed unless I'm shooting at distances greater than 50 yards, then I do a modified weaver stance. Seriously... one could maybe "teacup" a Seecamp, but it's pretty much a one hand, two finger gun.

Phantom Captain
September 22, 2013, 10:02 AM
I carry Buffalo Bore 75grain HCFN +P in my .32 PPK and the same Buffalo Bore HCFN +P .380 in my PPK/s.

The PPK is my summer gun mostly, a touch flatter and lighter and I feel fine with carrying it wearing shorts, the PPK/s is for everything else. I love my carry guns. I'm a complete Walther guy though, I own six (PP, PPK, PPK/s, P-38, P5 and P99AS). I'm a HUGE fan of the PPK and PPK/s and carry them always.

I am completely comfortable with the BB defensive carry rounds. I think they are the perfect answer for the smaller guns. I don't like HPs in my PPK or PPK/s and regular FMJs are too rounded (however I would carry the Fiocchis if I had to in a pinch, they are certainly hotter than American made stuff). I know the BB will penetrate and do the job.

mr.trooper
September 22, 2013, 10:19 AM
My main gripe with 32acp is that its difficult to find a proper sized pistol to shoot it from.

Everyone is making these sub-sub-compact flea weight pistols for it. Bring on the Walther PP (no 'K' need apply), and the Savage 1910, and Remington 51. The Beretta Jaguar and the like were the last proper sized guns produced in 32acp until the Bersa came along.

Schlegel
September 22, 2013, 12:18 PM
My main gripe with 32acp is that its difficult to find a proper sized pistol to shoot it from.

Everyone is making these sub-sub-compact flea weight pistols for it. Bring on the Walther PP (no 'K' need apply), and the Savage 1910, and Remington 51. The Beretta Jaguar and the like were the last proper sized guns produced in 32acp until the Bersa came along.
IMHO, the Walther PP is just right for 32. Though sadly not made anymore, their long use as a police sidearm in Europe has resulted in a good number of used ones being available. The prices are rising, I've noticed, but they can still be had for not much more than half the price of a German-built PPK.

I would really like a Colt 1903 hammerless sometime, my other pick for most attractive 32.

Phantom Captain
September 22, 2013, 01:18 PM
I LOVE my Manurhin PP. It's a 1971 Swedish police surplus.

The trigger is probably the nicest of all my Walthers, just smooth as butter. It's also ridiculously accurate. All around just an awesome pistol. I carry the PPK and PPK/s though because they are just that much smaller. Plus since my PP is police surplus it has the ring for a lanyard at the bottom of the grip. Makes it slightly less comfortable to carry.

Awesome gun.

USAF_Vet
September 23, 2013, 07:54 AM
I'm sorta interested in toying with the .32 ACP. But, I'm not a fan of mouse guns. I've been waiting to see a Skorpion come up on the used market when I happen to have cash in my pocket.

The Keltec P32 is sort of appealing also, though I can't really imagine carrying one in lieu or, or in addition to, one of my 9mm guns.

The Skorpion is more of a range toy and rather expensive plinker than a serious carry or SD/HD weapon.

It would be an interesting platform for a barrel swap and stock addition to make a legal Skorpion carbine, which would be a lot of fun.

Cocked & Locked
September 23, 2013, 09:24 AM
.32 autos....

The Kel Tec is carried daily by my wife and has been for several years.

The Colt is well worn in appearance but is a fun and accurate shooter. Feels great in my hand.

The Llama works great and has never malfunctioned that I recall. It has been in the family several decades. My oldest son has it now.

The NAA Guardian is heavy for size and is a real hand smacker.


http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/6263277/403339262.jpg
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/6263277/402945497.jpg


http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/6259764/381649867.jpg

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/6263277/375630501.jpg


http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/6263277/403777759.jpg
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/6263277/403777758.jpg

Vodoun da Vinci
September 23, 2013, 08:10 PM
Gotta love that Colt..thanks for sharing the pix of that one especially! :p

You seem to have a broad sampling of .32 ACP pistols and I'd be interested in your opinions on the likes/dislikes of the individual pieces and how they differ from each other in your perspective.

I'm a recent new comer to the .32 ACP and the guns that chamber this round. Never gave it any thought until the first time I laid hands on a Colt 1902 and then shot it. I never knew a gun could be so ergonomic and balanced. Gave me the incentive to read and learn about the .32 ACP and the guns that shoot it.

http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p709/VodoundaVinci/ColtModelMTypeIV_zps264bb0a8.jpg (http://s1347.photobucket.com/user/VodoundaVinci/media/ColtModelMTypeIV_zps264bb0a8.jpg.html)

My Wife's Colt 1903 built in 1930.

Been an interesting and satisfying experience.

VooDoo

Cocked & Locked
September 23, 2013, 08:57 PM
You seem to have a broad sampling of .32 ACP pistols and I'd be interested in your opinions on the likes/dislikes of the individual pieces and how they differ from each other in your perspective.

Are you asking me? If so, or if not, here are my thoughts.

The Colt is the best feeling gun in my hand. Thin and flat with no sharp edges or corners. Easy to carry and shoot but heavy and large by today's definition of concealed carry .32 autos. I feel uneasy carrying the Colt with a round chambered because of how old it is. Some folks say don't carry with a chambered round because the safety is NOT SAFE.

The Kel-Tec seems to fit most folk's definition of a .32 suitable for carry. Inexpensive, surprisingly accurate, light weight, etc., etc. These smack the hand fairly hard when shooting but not as bad as the NAA. I like them. They seem to shoot FMJ and hollow points equally as well.

The Llama seems to be well made but supposedly hard to find parts for these days. It shoots and functions great and is on the heavy side like the 1903 Colt. It is a fun-gun...never carried it and don't recall shooting any ammo other than FMJ in it.

The NAA Guardian is my least favorite. Shoots JHP and FMJ just fine. Seems to be solid and well made. Never any misfires or function problems. Some folks say these are bad to drop the magazine when firing...especially when using the magazine with the finger piece. I've not had that happen.

NAA is big time heavy for the size. Not that comfortable to carry even in a pocket holster. Due to the small size and weight it shifts around too much in my pocket...not comfortable to carry. Not comfortable in my hand due to small size. Not fun to shoot...really a hand smacker. Accurate enough.

I'd rather carry the Kel Tec.

fine looking Colt you have!

TacticsWithPractice
September 23, 2013, 09:37 PM
I love my Gardone VT. great for light clothes, and ankle carry. I keep a round similar to glazers in it, as i would think it would be mainly a very close confrontation leading to needing a B/U gun, or if i was without my daily cc.

Good accuracy for a blowback, reliable, and negligible recoil.

SharpsDressedMan
September 23, 2013, 10:29 PM
I believe a "Gardone VT" is a Beretta, possibly a Model 70. Some of the older Model 1935's in 7.65 might also be marked Gardone. You'll have to put up a picture. I have a Model 70, and think it is as good as the Colt or Walther PPK, maybe even BETTER! http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt274/Vins_cb/Armi/Beretta%2070%20series/70-1.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/Vins_cb/media/Armi/Beretta%2070%20series/70-1.jpg.html)

The Good
September 24, 2013, 07:37 AM
The lighter the gun the more recoil you will get in general. that should hold true with all calibers. If you get a heavy "steel framed" pistol, you will have lees recoil, but lose the concealment factor. Shooting my little seacamp in 32, was more recoil sensitive than most other guns in those calibers, "like a Walther PPK's in 380". If you stick with a Beretta or Walther in either caliber you should be ok. Personally I would not go below the 380 for self defense. Of course you can argue the point all day, but the more powerful bullet is generally the better way to go, with all things being equal.
Don't forget these guns come from an era where there were not a heck of a lot of choices as there are now.
I am sure James Bond would have carried a 9mm, if there was one that was the size of his PPK's, or Beretta, at the time.

First of all.. I'm sure a lot of knowledge and research goes into your choices of firearms.. So please don't imply that anyone here is interested in a certain gun because they saw James Bond use it. In my life I admit I've bought plenty of pairs of sneakers after seeing them worn by a famous athlete, but please don't suggest I would base an important decision like preferred pistol caliber on hollywood movies. Your opinion that James Bond would have carried a 9mm if they made a pocket sized one may have mattered to you when you bought your guns, but I prefer to base my decisions on reality. I do research. I read. O ask other people with experience. That's why this thread is here.

And obviously I realize the .32 isn't a high stopping power round. I pointed that out in the post I started with. I was asking if there was any reason besides it's lack of stopping power that it wasn't a common handgun round. Let me restate the foundation of my beliefs when it comes to modern handguns and concealment:
I used to carry a gun, but I stopped because I found it tedious. I would carry if I had a gun that was more comfortable to carry. With no gun, i have very little stopping power. If I started carrying the smallest caliber handgun on the market, i would be increasing my stopping power by 100%. I see a lot of subcompact pistols on the market that would be very easy to carry concealed, however I find these lightweight guns very unpleasant to shoot, and I would not feel very confident with one if I needed to defend my life with it because i feel the follow up shots would come too slowly and my first shot would be all i'd have. Yes it would be better than no gun, but that's where personal preference comes in. I have to decide how much discomfort I am willing to put up with for a certain level of safety. My problem with most modern pistols(especially living jn MA, where my choices are drastically limited) is this: I want to get a smaller caliber so I can enjoy low recoil not just for self defense, but also for fun at the range. I had a sig p232 in .380. I liked it. I only sold it because i needed money, so my complaints here are not major. However, i feel the .380 is a less than ideal for self defense. In the 232, the round was pretty snappy. So why am I carrying a gun with less stopping power if it's not giving me any advantage in decreased recoil? This is why I don't like that most of the guns available in .32 are tiny. I feel a platform like the sig p232 is perfect for the .32 because despite it's low stopping power, it's significantly lower recoil would be enough of an advantage to meet my personal preferences. Personal preference is what it's all about. I'm not the slightest bit ashamed to say i found the recoil of the .380 to be unpleasant. For some people it's probably the ideal gun.

MedWheeler
September 24, 2013, 08:07 AM
Is the Kel-Tec on your state's "good" list? It is a small, flyweight gun, as mentioned, but it's really not that harsh in .32. Add a magazine extension, or use KT's optional ten-round magazine, and the gun carries and holds even more easily.

I'll never disparage someone who carries a .22, let alone a .32 pistol. But, the round does make for expensive plinking. At one time, I would have said get two guns, the KT P32 for carry, and the Taurus PT-22 for training and fun, but I can't honestly say that anymore due to the lack of available (and affordable!) .22LR ammunition.

Vodoun da Vinci
September 24, 2013, 05:35 PM
Cocked & Locked: Yup, I was asking you and *Thank You* for your perspective.

The way I understand it, the older Colt 1903's (I have one from 1918 as well) are *not* drop safe - they are very safe with one in the tube due to the grip and the thumb safety as long as they are not dropped.

After 1922, the type III's have an added half cock notch and the same firing pin arrangement as the Colt 1911's and are generally more drop safe. I'd love to say "drop safe" but I do not know this to be true. I *do* know that a gunsmith buddy of mine and I tried to force an impact induced firing with some really beat up Model M's that are not drop safe (pre 1922) and it is near impossible but if it really hits the ground or is impacted on the muzzle very hard it can discharge. I have not been able to get a discharge in a half cock hammered model no matter how I try.

The half cock hammers are available yet as are the additional parts and can be transplanted into the earlier Model M's but I have not done this with my 1918 built Type III.

I intend to carry a Colt 1903 when licensed to do so in Illinois and that carry gun will be of the half cock notch type - a later model type III.

VooDoo

Phantom Captain
September 24, 2013, 08:44 PM
Here's my little family.

The top is a German made 1970 PPK/s .380 (I know it's a .32 thread but had to throw it in there).

Middle is the Manurhin 1971 PP .32

Bottom is my prized 1938 German PPK in .32

I completely dig shooting the .32 for all the reasons stated. It's fun to shoot and I have no problem carry them for self defense. Also as stated above I just am not comfortable carrying full size guns and for my needs the .32s or .380 Walthers fit just fine. The thing about the small guns is exactly as stated, I always have one on me because they ARE comfortable to carry.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r130/mboyd13/IMG_20130924_193353_zpsebd693bd.jpg

TacticsWithPractice
September 24, 2013, 11:16 PM
Yes sir Beretta it is. Couldnt recall the model for sure. Could be a model 70 variant but it is not marked. Mine is stamped "1957" and the serial lines up. What year is yours.

TacticsWithPractice
September 24, 2013, 11:26 PM
Shes a 1935. My very first handgun gun ever given down from my grandfather. I have never seen another beretta marked gardone but I assume its a facility?

Old Fuff
September 25, 2013, 01:32 AM
From post #44.

The half cock hammers are available yet as are the additional parts and can be transplanted into the earlier Model M's but I have not done this with my 1918 built Type III.

This is true, but be aware that the 1922 modified hammer also requires a matching sear, that was also redesigned from earlier ones.

clang
September 25, 2013, 06:55 PM
A downside of .32ACP that hasn't been mentioned yet is that factory ammo can be expensive, but right now all factory ammo is expensive.

I have a Colt 1903 and a Beretta Tomcat. Also had a MAB, but sold it because it was not left handed friendly (the safety was in the way). I probably should have kept it anyway..

batjka
September 26, 2013, 02:28 PM
7.65 European ammunition is a lot hotter than 32 ACP American ammo. Most chronograph tests show at least a 100 fps gain. WWII German military ammo is at the top range. Geco commercial ammo, S&B and Fiocchi follow.

I would not bother with US-made stuff. It's weak. The gentleman that exchanged 70 rds of S&B for 50 rds of Winchester got taken advantage of.

Interesting to note that Germany issued pistols in both 7.65 and 9K. At the same time, they preferred 7.65 and actually made Hungary re-tool production lines for FEG 37 to 7.65 from original 9K.

Vodoun da Vinci
September 26, 2013, 05:11 PM
I don't feel taken advantage of - I have shot Winchester FMJ at the range before and the other folks were having a hell of a time. So, I traded Winchester flat nose for a box of S&B at the range to help newbies out. I now have new friends and good will for a $20 box of ammo.

At the range the Winchester is more accurate thru my Colt's anyway and since this was not a self defense situation I didn't need hotter ammunition for which I currently carry Buffalo Bore's 75 grain Flat nose hard cast lead...talk about hot. :cool:

So, all was not lost. :)

I also scored *all* the brass as they left all 50 rounds of the S&B brass for me and I scored almost 100 rounds of once fired Winchester factory brass as well. I'll reload the Winchester brass with 75 grain hard cast flat nose and it'll be running 1000 fps+ out of the scored brass.

So, it's a win/win and I have new friends at the range to show for it. I kinda feel like .32 ACP aficionados are forming a "family" or group of .32 pistoleros so I just paid it forward a little.

VooDoo

batjka
September 26, 2013, 05:56 PM
No offense intended. I understand your reasoning and it's great to make new friends at the range.

I just feel that .32 gets a bad rap mostly due to the underpowered American ammo. The difference between .32 and .380 is really dismal if European ammo is used.

I enjoy my P32 and shoot it accurate enough at 25 yds to have full confidence in it. Greco 73gr bullet does close to 1000 FPS from a P32 and that's pretty respectable.

What loads are you using?

Vodoun da Vinci
September 26, 2013, 06:45 PM
Handloads? Next run will be Rim Rock 75 grain hard cast flat nose lead bullets (same ones Buffalo Bore uses) with 2.7 grains of Unique behind it. The last rounds were the same bullet with 2.6 grains of Unique and were running about 860 fps average out of my Colt 1903 with a 3.75" barrel.

They are a little "peppery" and recoil wise feel like a Fiocchi or S&B round but were quite a bit more accurate. In fact they were very accurate at 21'. No signs of pressure and the gun handles them just fine so we are gonna push it a little more.

I get my new dies from CH4D on Saturday and no longer have to rely on borrowed .32 ACP dies from a Gun Buddy so things should move ahead quicker in the coming weeks. Eventually we will work up some loads with Meister 94 grain flat nose lead bullets when we feel more comfortable and have more experience under our belts.

Until then I use S&B or Buffalo Bore for self defense in our .32 ACP Colt Model M's. My Wife and I each have our own pistols and are both lovers of the .32 ACP rounds as they are controllable in rapid fire and accurate at 21' - 30' and don't beat us up so we can shoot about 400 rounds month at practice.

I'm a big fan of deep penetration and heavy bullets for .32 ACP as opposed to some who feel that the 60 grain hollow points are better. I'm a firm believer that the round nose flat point bullets driven deep and hard will do more damage and are more effective in this caliber than expansion or round nose FMJ.

VooDoo

golden
September 26, 2013, 07:32 PM
GOOD,

I have shot a number of small pistols in both .32ACP and .380ACP. There is a difference in recoil, but a lot depends on the gun.

The softest recoiling .32ACP pistols that I have shot are the:

BERETTA model 82 CHEETAH.

COLT 1903 POCKET HAMMERLESS

Both are large guns for the .32ACP cartridge, but that is not the whole story. The COLT 1903 is solid steel and that pound and a haf weight and full size grip give a light kick and easily controlled kick. The COLT 1903 makes it easy to shoot the .32ACP accurately.
If I were going to carry this gun, I would probably go with CONDITION 3, empty chamber and full magazine. I just do not trust that safety.

The BERETTA is even better as it weighs almost the same and has a wider grip which spreads the recoil over a wider area of your hand. It is the softest shooting .32ACP I have used.
Other advantages are a smooth, double action trigger, excellent sights, good grip design and the open slide reliability that BERETTA has built its reputation on. I keep mine full of HYDRA SHOK which feed 100 % in this gun.

My BERETTA 84, which is the double stack magazine version of the CHEETAH in .380ACP is probably the one .380ACP pistol I would consider a substitute for a 9m.m. Parabellum defense gun. It has the 13 round magazine capacity, great double action trigger, mild recoil for a .380ACP, same great sights.

Other guns can be hit or miss. The NAA GUARDIAN has harsh recoil, really poor sights, heavy trigger, but has been reliable.

My KEL TEC .32ACP is just not reliable.

My WALTHER PPK in .32ACP is very reliable, but not as good as the BERETTA which never seems to jam.

My .380ACP SIG 232 is terrific on recoil. The kick is less than the .32ACP PPK. On the other hand, the SIG is bigger and harder to conceal. The SIG has a very ergonomic grip which fits me to a tee.
Add in a terrific trigger, very safe design, perfect sights and you have a winner.
The negative is that the larger grip makes it harder to conceal than the PPK.

In the end, if recoil is the deciding factor, try a large .380ACP like the BERETTA model 84 or a SIG 232 as they have all the advantages of a modern design with very light recoil and excellent control.

If concealment is more important, then a .32ACP like the WALTHER PPK may be a better choice than a .380ACP version of the same gun.

Jim

Vodoun da Vinci
September 26, 2013, 08:03 PM
Wow! Golden, thanks for the impressions of a number of .32 ACP variations!

I'm looking for a Beretta 82 in 90% condition....I had one back in "The Day" and sold it for food money and have regretted it ever since. If I find another one I'm buyin' that Bad Boy. :p

VooDoo

batjka
September 26, 2013, 08:27 PM
You said your P32 is not reliable. Could you elaborate please? My P32 (knock on wood) had been 100% and I have about 500 rds through it. If there's a problem, a trip back to the factory might be required. These guns are great and I hate to hear that you cannot depend on the one you have.

readyeddy
September 26, 2013, 08:52 PM
I don't believe it. 56 posts and no "gigantic jerk".

Some beautiful guns in this thread. Now I want a 32.

GyMac
September 26, 2013, 08:59 PM
Lots of beautiful, classy guns in .32 ACP, but that 1910 Browning earlier shown by PRM is stunning! Thanks for posting!

Cokeman
September 26, 2013, 09:06 PM
I don't believe it. 56 posts and no "gigantic jerk".

Some beautiful guns in this thread. Now I want a 32.

Great :cool:

Vodoun da Vinci
September 26, 2013, 10:08 PM
I think reliability with the P-32 is a function of ammo and bullet type. They seem to be overly susceptible to "rim lock" with hollow point or flat nosed bullets due to the shorter OAL of the cartridge. My Gun Buddy has a P-32 and I do like it very much but without a kit in the mag or modifications I think your options for ammo are FMJ - period.

The Beretta Tomcats seem to be rather finicky as well with flat nosed bullets - I dunno about hollow points as I have not discussed that with anyone who owns a Tomcat.

Kel Tec owners and Beretta Tomcatters: Please add information if you have it to share.

VooDoo

Vodoun da Vinci
October 5, 2013, 08:30 AM
Bump....:neener:

Ran across this pix of a range visit. The exercise was to try "point shooting" or threat focused/quick kill (whatever you call it...) shooting triple and quadruple taps in rapid succession without using sights. My first attempt was not that bad remembering that these targets are 6"X10" so most of the rounds are clustered within a 4" area which is a circle about the size of the palm of my hand.

http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p709/VodoundaVinci/PointShooting_zps65bfc96e.jpg (http://s1347.photobucket.com/user/VodoundaVinci/media/PointShooting_zps65bfc96e.jpg.html)

This was factory ammo - Sellier and Bellot 73 gr FMJ shot at 21'. The pistol is a 95 year old Colt 1903 Model M. Pictured is the original mag but I have 3 after market mags I purchased from Numrich and they have yet to fail me in any way. 6 mags between 2 pistols, 4 of them reproduction mags and 2 of them originals and all of them function flawlessly.

Keep the .32 acp thread moving my mouse gun brothers....:cool:

VooDoo

krupparms
October 5, 2013, 11:37 AM
I have a Colt model M & a Beretta & a Kel-Tec in .32acp. I find them all fun to shoot. The Tomcat is my favorite, followed by the Colt & then the Kel-Tec. The Kel-Tec can hold more rounds! But the Tomcat is very easy to shoot &very accurate with the right loads! They are all fine guns. I would choose the Kel-Tec as firepower & price are your best features about the Kel-Tec. But the Tomcat is a better pick if price is no problem. BTW. The S.S. tomcat is wider & heaver than the blue version. Good luck! Hope that helps. But remember it's just my opinion.
:)

golden
October 5, 2013, 06:35 PM
The KEL TEC just will not feed.
I have tried WINCHESTER White Box with the flat tip bullets. This is the most troublesome ammo I have tried. It has misfed by catching on the flat tip of the bullet in several guns and is just a bad design in my experience.

I switched to AGUILLA, S&B, REMINGTON ball and FIOCCHI and WINCHESTER jhp and none would feed even a single magazine full without a misfeed. I gave up. I will send it back to the factory, but I have lost confidense in it.

The other listed pistol is a BERETTA Tomcat. My first one (I have had 3) would not feed the WINCHESTER White Box, but was 100 % with AGUILLA, S&B and FIOCCHI ball. I eventually loaded it with COR BON Powerball and it is 100% reliable with that ammo. My wife liked it so much, she decided it was hers!
My second is my occasional carry gun and is much less choosy on which ammo it will shoot. I carry it loaded with a FEDERAL Hydra Shok in the chamber and FIOCCHI jhp in the mags, but I will be switching to Powerball as I have finally been able to get some at a reasonable price.

My WALTHER feeds FIOCCHI jhp and WINCHESTRE Silvertips, but will now get the same treatment as the Tomcat with a Hydra Shok in the chamber and Powerball in the mags.

The BERETTA model 82 Cheetah gets only Hydra Shok as it is 100% with every ammo I have tried in it.

I also have an 87 year old COLT 1903 in very good condition. It can shoot the Silvertips and FIOCCHI jhp without a problem. So that would be the ammo in the mags.

I also had a BERETTA model 70 Puma, that shot well with ball and the FIOCCHI jhp. I did not have it long enough to test the Silvertip or Hydra Shok.
It was light, had a nice grip, but I wanted a double action pistol, so it went and was replaced by the WALTHER PPK.

Jim

rondog
October 5, 2013, 07:50 PM
I mentioned my two back in post #18, here's photos now. I recently had them both out shooting, and they did very well. I've since decided the Mauser is OK for CCW duty, so it's been seeing some pocket time lately. Once I got the firing problem fixed, this is actually a pretty neat little pistol and fun to shoot! Accurate too.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/my%20handguns/DSCN3895.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/my%20handguns/DSCN3900.jpg

The MAB still has feeding issues once in awhile, so I think it'll remain just a range plinker. It has an awful trigger anyway.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/my%20handguns/DSCN3915.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/my%20handguns/DSCN3909.jpg

Walkalong
October 5, 2013, 08:26 PM
Seecamp
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=150080&stc=1&d=1317422254
One of my BUG guns, and sometimes a main carry. (Correction) No sights, but it's not a long distance gun. Fairly easy to hit my 10" steel plate at 10 yards with. Fits me pretty well, despite being a small gun. Nice smooth DA trigger.

FN Browning Model 1922
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=142230&stc=1&d=1305496541
Fits my hand very well. Tiny sights, but easy to use. Somewhat heavy SA trigger, but easy to manage. Fairly easy to hit my 10" steel plate at 40 yards with.

Beretta Model 81
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=142157&d=1305391784
Nice DA, sweet short SA. Fits my hand great. Very easy to hit my 10" steel plate at 40 yards with.

Llama Especial
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=182318&stc=1&d=1365116571
A bit small for my hand. SA trigger is smooth but heavy, making it a bit harder to shoot well. Could probably be fixed easily. Tougher to hit my 10" steel plate at 40 yards consistently.

CZ Model 83
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=143422&stc=1&d=1307197472
Superb DA, nice smooth long SA. Fits my hand great. Pretty easy to hit my 10" steel plate at 40 yards with.

usp9
October 5, 2013, 08:58 PM
Tiny sights
Your Seecamp has sights?

Vodoun da Vinci
October 5, 2013, 10:35 PM
Dude...you got a Beretta 81? :what:

I have scoured the 'Net looking for a decent Beretta 81 or 82 and not only did I not find a decent one, I didn't find one. :banghead:

I need another .32 besides my Colt 1903's and I admit I'm absolutely obsessed with my Model M's. Maybe a CZ..there's an FN at the LGS that's killing me not to buy it but I have a line on another Colt 1903 that i have to have.

Did I mention it's an obsession?

VooDoo

Walkalong
October 6, 2013, 09:36 AM
Your Seecamp has sights?Whoops, thinking of another gun.
Dude...you got a Beretta 81?
Yep, and it's sweet. It's a police trade in, just like my CZ was, and there were a bunch on the market for a while. Before that I was like you, frustrated at lack of availability and high prices. I would love to have a Colt 1903, but pricing has kept me from that as well. :)

gloucestergarand
October 6, 2013, 09:43 AM
Walther PP in .32 in my cargo pocket as I type this....99% of the time I'm wearing my Colt Commander, but when I need discrete carry, my Walther is my go to piece. One of the best trades I ever made!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Deaf Smith
October 6, 2013, 10:02 AM
I have both a Beretta 1935 .32 made in 1954 (called the 935 by then) and a P32 made by Kel-tec.

Surprisingly the P32 is quite reliable and I use it when I mow the lawn (carries well in a pants pocket and a Nemesis holster.)

The Beretta is a safe queen!

Deaf

TestPilot
October 6, 2013, 10:34 AM
...
And obviously I realize the .32 isn't a high stopping power round. I pointed that out in the post I started with. I was asking if there was any reason besides it's lack of stopping power that it wasn't a common handgun round. Let me restate the foundation of my beliefs when it comes to modern handguns and concealment:
....

Well, if that's the answer you're looking for, then the answer is quite simple.

It's unpopular because it is a weak round compared to 9mm or higher, or even 380ACP. And, when JHP desgin is concerened, even 380ACP is really pushing it.

There is no hidden secrets or mysteries to be discovered.

Why not popular for sport shooting? Simple. If you want really low recoil chaeap and accurate sport shooting, there is 22 LR. Also, since there is no size restriction involved with range shooting, even 9mm guns can be sized up so recoil would be mild.

32ACP does nothing better than 22LR for sports and fun plinking, and noting better than 380ACP or 9mm for anti personnel role.

Sure, someone will come along and say stuff like "Police and citizens of hundred years ago used 32ACP to protect themselves, blah, blah...." Not that I think you buy that. But, that was because blow back pistols that use weak rounds are more easier to design with with old engineering technology, and ignorance.

If any one approaches any police subject matter expert and try to convince them why 32ACP is appropriate for police issue now, they'd look at them like they're nuts.

black_powder_Rob
October 6, 2013, 11:06 AM
Interesting thread and some really cool pictures, I thought about getting a .32 acp cz scorpion lately but then looked at the price of the ammo, and while I do reload I really didn't feel like adding another set of dies to the mix. Luckly I all ready reload for the 380 and there is a 380 version of the scorpion.

On the other hand if I did come across a good deal on a 32.acp pistol I still think I would pick it up. As for the daily carry I think I will stick to my LCP. It shoots just fine and I don't find the recoil bad at all. I could only imagine that the P-32 would be just a little bit less in the recoil depart.

batjka
October 6, 2013, 11:20 AM
.32 and .380 are pretty close in performance. But there's an extra round in the magazine for .32 as opposed to .380. I agree that full-sized pistols in .32 have lost their practicality, but a CCW chambered in .32 definitely has its place in the modern world.

Marlin 45 carbine
October 6, 2013, 11:37 AM
I have the tomcat .32. when lightly dressed - cargo shorts or even swim trunks it's in a pocket and spare mag other side pocket. it has never jammed and I've shot 100s of cast slug handloads thru it.

Jim K
October 6, 2013, 11:43 AM
One of the main reasons .32 ACP guns are not more common is that until recently the import regulations under GCA '68 made import of guns in .25 and .32 caliber very difficult. They have revised the rules to put .32 with .380 rather than with .25, so that gets a few more points.

Jim

Vodoun da Vinci
October 6, 2013, 08:04 PM
I wondered when he'd get here....:neener:

:D

VooDoo

Cocked & Locked
October 6, 2013, 09:31 PM
I wondered when he'd get here....:neener:

:D

VooDoo

Who is this 'He" of which you speak?

Archie
October 8, 2013, 12:53 AM
I collect 'art deco' .32 ACP pistols (roughly from 1900 to the end of WWII, not precise.) I have about 10 specimens and looking for more. They are really interesting bits of history, and excellent examples of the gunmaker's art, both design and execution.

I use exclusively Prvi Partizan ammunition - it seems to be uniform and 'average' in the caliber. My impression from chronographing the various pistols I have indicates the PP ammo is loaded more to U. S. levels than European. I don't carry these pistols for defense use. I have other pistols more 'suitable' (greater power, accuracy and handling). Although I have carried my model M Colt on occasion. If pressed with no other choices, I would carry one of my .32 pistols for defense; it just isn't my first choice.

I've written up some firing reports on my blog (see signature) and I'm still procrastinating a couple others. They are all fun to shoot - other than the Savage and Beretta pistols are prone to slide bite the web of my somewhat fleshy hands - and they are all more accurate than is commonly thought.

Lucky Derby
October 8, 2013, 06:29 AM
I really liked my Beretta Tomcat. Easy to shoot and carry. Only gun I ever had in this caliber.

Vodoun da Vinci
October 8, 2013, 07:13 AM
Good stuff...thanks Archie!! :)

In regards to ammunition I find that groove diameter in .32 ACP pistols seems to range from .3085 in some Mausers to .311 and even .312 in some Colt 1903. As I progress in hand loading for these pistols I'm finding that the "hot" Euro ammo is generally shooting smaller diameter bullets to cater to the Euro style pistols with generally smaller groove diameter barrels. These rounds are hotter in my Colts but not as accurate as things like the Buffalo Bore 75 grain flat nose offering which has a .312 diameter bullet.

Not only a little hotter still but it's larger diameter more closely fits the Colt bore and they are way more accurate.

Has anyone slugged the bore of a Kel Tec P-32 and, if you have, could you tell me the groove diameter? Thanks in advance!

VooDoo

capttom
October 13, 2013, 06:41 PM
I have a nifty .32 which someone mentioned earlier, a Beretta 70 New Puma. However, regarding it's calibre, I prefer to use the European designation, considering the origins of this fine little pistol. The aluminum frame makes it easy to tote, the crossbolt safety makes it quick into action, and the single action trigger makes it a dream to shoot. It's the only pistol I have that's been used to stop an attacker. I used to slip it in an IWB holster when the chance of conflict seemed small. As things sometime happen, though, a pit bull slipped it's chain and came after my wife and I on our evening stroll. Three shots, rapid fire, put the beast down.
However, the Beretta doesn't get carried much any more. It's been retired to a place of honor and will no doubt go to a family member when I shake off this mortal coil.
An S&W CS9, roughly the same size as the New Puma or an S&W 642, weighs not much more than either and packs more punch in 9mm.

SharpsDressedMan
October 13, 2013, 06:58 PM
It was me that brought up this little Beretta earlier, and I STILL think it a visual beauty of a handgun. Very sleek lines, and a joy to carry.

capttom
October 13, 2013, 07:43 PM
Most correct, sir.

Vodoun da Vinci
October 13, 2013, 08:25 PM
I also have a soft spot for the Beretta design...be they model 70's, 81, 82, or the older designs I really like the way they look.

I'd buy a model 81 or 82 if I could find one.

VooDoo

C0untZer0
October 13, 2013, 08:34 PM
I wish I had picked up the Model 86 when it first came out.

It had the longest barrel of any 380 sold in the U.S, the tip-up barrel was very cool, it's a beautiful gun and a great shooter.

capttom
October 13, 2013, 09:23 PM
Speaking of older Berettas, I found a Model 101 35 years ago in a pawn shop, downtown Houston. It had a six inch barrel, the same safety as the Model 70, and adjustable sights above the chamber. Those sights had the smallest adjustment screws I've ever seen. I think I paid $60 for that sweet little .22.
My boss at the time saw it and wanted it. She wasn't the type of boss one said "no" to - certainly for a recent college grad who needed the job. She graciously paid $65 for the pistol. I've been looking for another ever since.

mec
October 13, 2013, 10:50 PM
I wondered when he'd get here....:neener:

:D

VooDoo
"It's unpopular because it is a weak round compared to 9mm or higher, or even ..."
took him almost 4 pages. Remarkable

Vodoun da Vinci
October 14, 2013, 07:27 AM
Yeah...my mistake/my bad. :banghead:

This is probably the best on going thread about .32 ACP pistols I have seen for some time on The 'Net. Let's concentrate on keeping it nurturing and positive so folks wanna continue to play. I *love* seeing pix of other folks' .32's and rolling in all things .32 just for a little while. :cool:

VooDoo

mec
October 14, 2013, 07:58 AM
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=189971&d=1381751753


http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=189970&d=1381751753

C0untZer0
November 10, 2013, 10:43 PM
My problem with the 380 AUTO is that most of the gel tests I've seen show the hollow point top out at 10" penetration and I've seen the FMJ, even truncated flat nosed penetrating 17-18 inches and even zipping out the back of 19" blocks.

There doesn't seem to be a way to get the round to penetrate between 12 to 15 inches.

rondog
November 11, 2013, 01:13 AM
Does anyone here reload .32acp? Lead RN bullets, or?

Vodoun da Vinci
November 11, 2013, 06:51 AM
I reload .32 ACP and I know that others here at THR do as well. I love it...really, I treat it just like a small 9mm. I use Rim Rock Bullets 75 gr. RNFP hardcast lead. Same bullet Buffalo Bore uses in their supposedly "+P" version of premium .32 SD ammunition but we all know that there really is no +P .32, right? :eek:

The Buffalo Bore are hot rounds, no doubt but they are not +P. I set out to duplicate them to some degree with the idea of getting 200 FPE of energy out of a flat pointed .32 bullet. That's just shy of 1100 FPS out of the 3.75" barrel on the Colt pistols I shoot. The flat pointed bullets penetrate deeply and seem to open a nice wound channel unlike round noses that seem to push substance aside and then close up behind it.

I'm a big believer in hot, flat points in .32 ACP for SD and don't really feel the need of hollow points or round noses. Round noses penetrate but don't open as big of a wound channel and hollow points don't penetrate deep enough.

http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p709/VodoundaVinci/PointShooting_zps65bfc96e.jpg

IMO/YMMV. I do think the .32 ACP is given less credit than it deserves as a self defense round - certainly not ideal or a "knock down" caliber *but* very easy even for smaller folks to drill a BG with multiple taps very accurately and very quickly. And the .32's hide so easy there is always the element of complete surprise and the added plus of always having the gun with you to do that. And with 15" of penetration and accurate follow ups with the right bullets I don't feel under gunned when I have one in my hand.

VooDoo

SharpsDressedMan
November 11, 2013, 03:48 PM
I reload .32acp, and mostly use 71ghr FMJ's (came into a bunch several years ago). Either Bullseye or Unique does the job. I shoot them in a Beretta 70, a '64 Walther PPK, or a 1913 Colt 1903 (yup, just turned 100 this year!). http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/matquig/DSC05339.jpg (http://s106.photobucket.com/user/matquig/media/DSC05339.jpg.html)

788Ham
November 11, 2013, 03:49 PM
SharpDressedMan,

Seeing your post #41 earlier, I have a Beretta 1953, 7.65mm. It has the Gardone V.T. stamp on the slide. This little piece is a pawn rescue, 90%, with an original leather flap holster, dark brown. I shoot the Fiocchi brand ammo only, 73 gr. FMJ. This little pistol really shoots well, never a flaw. When I got it, I ordered springs from Numrich, magazine spring also, had a smith change the springs, like new. Like some have mentioned about them not having as much power as blah, blah, blah, I won't stand out anywhere and let anyone shoot this one at me ! The Euro cartridges do have more power than the US made ammo.

mio
November 11, 2013, 05:36 PM
My mom has a Beretta Tomcat it makes a smaller hole than my .357 but that isn't very important if that hole is where it should be.

Magnuumpwr
November 11, 2013, 10:43 PM
Per the serial number, manufactured in 1912. Savage model 1907 in 32ACP.
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/magnuumpwr/IMG_20131111_213203.jpg

PaulKersey3
November 12, 2013, 04:03 AM
.32 acp/7.65 Browning is a fine round for defense. I go with Fiocchi FMJ in my beretta. Someone also mentioned Prvi partisan which is great as well. For modern day pistols you can try jhp, but with this specific round, one should favor penetration over energy transfer. I've seen numbers with 73gr Euro (Fiocchi) penetrating 13.5 inches into ballistic gel. That's more than enough for major organ trauma to shut down a bad guy. Plus when I've been blasting away at the range with my larger, louder weapons, my 32 is a good change of pace with low recoil rapid fire.

MatthewW
November 18, 2013, 03:31 PM
I just joined the community and have a question .

I recently came across a Model 10 or 22 (serial # in the 285 thousand range) FN pistol. There is no caliber marking on it, the seller says it's a .32

When the safety is pushed up to engage the slide, there is a small amount of play to the trigger. It pushes back about 1 mm or a bit more. The seller says this is normal, but I don't know. I am a novice when it comes to handguns, usually shooting a .22 rifle or black powder.

Is this bit of play normal (safe) or if not what would be the best fix for it?

Ignition Override
November 18, 2013, 08:01 PM
My first handgun (to be picked up in two days) is a WW2 Sauer 38H. All of these were in .32 acp.

It was a surprise comparing the .32acp next to a Makarov 9x18 rd. and until now the Mak. round had looked really small.
Wish that the Polish P-64 (9x18) were more comfy to shoot, as three friends "carry" them.

How much less does .32 acp penetrate gelatin blocks compared to .380 and Mak?:scrutiny:

CZguy
November 18, 2013, 08:18 PM
Wish that the Polish P-64 (9x18) were more comfy to shoot, as three friends "carry" them.

They are so accurate, that I tend to overlook their snappy recoil. I find them very well made and fun to shoot.

Walkalong
November 18, 2013, 09:23 PM
I just joined the community and have a question .

I recently came across a Model 10 or 22 (serial # in the 285 thousand range) FN pistol. There is no caliber marking on it, the seller says it's a .32

When the safety is pushed up to engage the slide, there is a small amount of play to the trigger. It pushes back about 1 mm or a bit more. The seller says this is normal, but I don't know. I am a novice when it comes to handguns, usually shooting a .22 rifle or black powder.

Is this bit of play normal (safe) or if not what would be the best fix for it?
Mine (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=130611&d=1289679106) has a bit of take up in it as well. Sounds normal. Fun gun to shoot.

Welcome to THR.

Blade First
November 19, 2013, 12:32 AM
SharpsDressedMan...

I'm a fan, too, and scored a Beretta Model 70/7.65mm earlier this year after looking and hoping for one in really good shape for many a year. Have always thought this to be a rather elegant design; mine's a late 50's version and so isn't encumbered with false target grips or any other nonsense that was to be foisted on collectors over the next decade. A fine shooter, it's reliable [likes the hotter ammo] and quite accurate.

By the way, the first Model 70 I ever fired was an alloy-framed version that didn't have a single marking of any kind on it...no caliber designation, no model number, no proof marks, no serial number...nothing. A shame they can't talk.

Vodoun da Vinci
November 19, 2013, 07:27 AM
SharpsDressedMan...
By the way, the first Model 70 I ever fired was an alloy-framed version that didn't have a single marking of any kind on it...no caliber designation, no model number, no proof marks, no serial number...nothing. A shame they can't talk.

Roger that...I wish my two Colt 1903's could tell me their story.

Is anyone here anticipating the release of the Beretta Pico? Supposedly they will be offered with a .32 ACP barrel as an option using the same .380 magazine. All we'll have to do is buy a .32 barrel and drop it in. Sounds like a "must have" pistol for me being a Beretta lover and a .32 ACP aficionado.

VooDoo

chicharrones
November 19, 2013, 05:18 PM
Is anyone here anticipating the release of the Beretta Pico? Supposedly they will be offered with a .32 ACP barrel as an option using the same .380 magazine. All we'll have to do is buy a .32 barrel and drop it in. Sounds like a "must have" pistol for me being a Beretta lover and a .32 ACP aficionado.

VooDoo

I forgot all about the Pico! I am interested to see it come out in .32 ACP as I have a "soft spot" for that round. :)

chicharrones
November 19, 2013, 05:31 PM
Since this thread is still alive and kicking . . .

I own an NAA Guardian .32 ACP and a Taurus TCP732 .32 ACP. Firing the NAA is about like firing a Ruger LCP in .380 as far as felt recoil, however the Ruger is actually easier to fire and is more reliable. With the NAA you absolutely have to hold that gun firmly gripped with nary a hand movement or it will stovepipe on ejection.

The easiest to shoot out of those three is the Taurus 732. It feels downright pleasant and with careful aim can shoot good groups out to at least 15 yards. The NAA, well it hardly has rifling in that short barrel so it patterns like a shotgun in comparison.

The NAA and Taurus have their own ammo likes though. The NAA does best with Fiocchi FMJ and the Taurus does best with S&B FMJ. In fact, I had troubles out of the box with the Taurus until I made a few mods and got it to work with the S&B. Now the Taurus won't work with anything else except S&B. Perhaps the Taurus would work with some stout Buffalo Bore, but I've never purchased Buffalo Bore yet.

As much as the NAA is a PITA, it does keep its place in my carry rotation by the fact it will fit in pockets that the Taurus and my snub nose revolver cannot.

My only other .32 ACP experience is with my brother's CZ vz 27 WWII issue pistol. It is very accurate for a smallish .32 ACP gun and is plenty fun to shoot with. :cool:

silicosys4
November 20, 2013, 04:09 AM
I watched a video online of a 1903 colt being emptied as fast as could be done....no muzzle flip. Those guns are old, but give a bad guy a 5-tap into the vitals in literally 1 second...should make their night ugly. My only .32 is a ppk I scored out of a pawnshop but I don't shoot it much because it turned out to be an rsha gun. The few times I have shot it were enjoyable, but recoil was still somewhat sharper than I was expecting for the cartridge.

Vodoun da Vinci
November 20, 2013, 06:47 AM
Just loaded up a 100 rounds of my personal .32 ACP rounds last night shooting 75 gr flat pointed hard cast lead at around 1000 fps and near 200 fpe. These are hot but not really so hot that they are scary or that they kick like a mule. They are approaching a .380 in recoil but are now giving me as much muzzle energy as a .38 out of a snubbie.

Dying to dial them back and work them back up using a Pico and see how they shoot. In my Colt 1903's they are *very* accurate at 21'.

We shot some in my Gun Buddy's Kel-Tec .32 but it does not like to feed them 'cause of rim lock whcih brings me to another question for the .32 aCP Aficionados Club.

How many have experienced "Rim Lock" in their .32's? This is where the top round in the mag slips over the rim of the round under it and effectively locks up the magazine not allowing a round to be chambered. I understand that this phenomenon *can* occur in any .32 ACP due to the semi rimmed cartridge design but I have never had it happen to me, nor seen it in any .32's but the the Kel-Tec P32.

Have other experienced this phenomenon?

VooDoo

chicharrones
November 20, 2013, 08:32 AM
How many have experienced "Rim Lock" in their .32's? This is where the top round in the mag slips over the rim of the round under it and effectively locks up the magazine not allowing a round to be chambered. I understand that this phenomenon *can* occur in any .32 ACP due to the semi rimmed cartridge design but I have never had it happen to me, nor seen it in any .32's but the the Kel-Tec P32.

Have other experienced this phenomenon?

VooDoo

I have never had rim lock in my .32 ACP guns. I'm sure that is due to my choice of FMJ full length ammo. I have tried the Winchester truncated nose FMJ ammo, but my guns don't run well with it at all. The short non-rounded nose won't chamber consistently in my pocket guns and that Winchester ammo is actually too weak to reliably cycle my NAA Guardian.

Even if I didn't have to think about rim lock, I'd still choose full length FMJ in a .32 ACP for reliable feeding and penetration in a target.

PRM
November 20, 2013, 08:42 AM
I guess it does occur, people write about it. In 30+ years of shooting, I have never personally experienced rimlock. Maybe Walther(s) don't have that???:)

Never had it happen with my NAA or Browning either.

foxchase
November 21, 2013, 06:18 PM
CZ 50, .32acp. Made in 1950 but still operates flawlessly. One of my favorites.

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