Why it's good (and bad) to be a girl with a gun!


March 24, 2004, 11:19 AM
Here are some pros and cons to being a woman shooter. Feel free to add your own.

Reasons its NOT good to be female (in relation to shooting):

1) You have to give up shooting for 9 long months if you want
to have a baby.
2) People assume you want the smallest caliber gun or one that
"looks pretty".
3) Figuring out where to carry is more of a challenge due to
low rise pants and form fitting shirts.

Reasons its good to be female (in relation to shooting):

1) You are automatically dubbed "awesome" by your husband,
boyfriend and others just because you like guns.
2) When you speak, people usually listen.
3) People are generally more than willing to help you out if
4) Women only shooting clinic= $20, Regular shooting clinic= $80
5) You look COOL! :cool:
6) You know that just cause ya look pretty and innocent, an
attacker is going to be in for an unpleasant surprise if
he messes with you. ;)

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March 24, 2004, 11:36 AM
Why do ya have to give up shooting if you are pregnant? Granted I wouldn't recommend blasting away everyday with a 50 BMG but I'm sure you could still pop a few rounds now and then.

March 24, 2004, 11:37 AM
Is it really necessary to avoid all shooting while pregnant? I believe some women on THR have continued. :confused:

TFL Survivor

March 24, 2004, 11:38 AM
Probably to reduce lead exposure.

March 24, 2004, 11:40 AM
Sound travels through the womb.

While my wife was pregnant with our daughter last summer, we had a rather violent thunderstorm. During one extremely loud crash of thunder, my wife felt our baby jump inside her. While loud, it was nowhere near as loud as a firearm.

Not worth the risks (auditory damage, lead exposure, etc), IMO.


Jay Kominek
March 24, 2004, 11:46 AM
Not worth the risks (auditory damage, lead exposure, etc), IMO.
I wouldn't really expect any meaningful lead exposure when shooting outdoors.
And the fetus won't have ears or auditory organs formed at the instant of conception.

Obviously we need supressors to be more available! For the children!

March 24, 2004, 11:47 AM
Lead is especially dangerous during pregnancy. It can cause severe developmental problems, even in very small doses.

March 24, 2004, 12:24 PM
I think you can shoot in your first trimester with no-lead ammo but really, no matter how much I'd hate giving up my 1911, I wouldn't want to take the risk.

Brad Johnson
March 24, 2004, 02:45 PM
Dang it, why are all the good ones already taken!


Eskimo Jim
March 24, 2004, 02:57 PM
That's a good list you have going! Glad to see you on the forum.

I'd add a couple to the benefits:

7) your husband or boyfriend will carry your range bag because he's a gentleman
8) The words "thank you sweetie, I love it" often follow the announcement that a new firearm was bought and is now in her collection, rather than his.


March 24, 2004, 03:19 PM
Another good point (more may follow after consultation with my wife)

9) It's never hard to get your husband/boyfriend to buy you a new gun.

Series 70
March 24, 2004, 03:35 PM

Much easier for the men in your life to shop for gifts for you.

Bad: (Maybe)

All you ever get for gifts are gun accessories.

March 24, 2004, 03:46 PM
i wouldnt call that a 'bad' thing series70.... heck i WISH people would just buy me ammo instead of cloths or other things as gifts!

(230 grain .45acp fmj please. in reloadable brass.)

SiG Lady
March 24, 2004, 03:54 PM
Would somone please tell the rangemasters at MY range that I should receive a $60 discount on MY courses of study there just because I'm female!!!! Ha! Not a chance!!

Thankfully, though, we lady shooters at this range are treated as equals in all ways and not offered little pearl-handled foo-foo pistols as the only option. Most of my shooting buddies are pretty quick to point out the latest 1911s to me in the showcase when they arrive. :cool:

Hmm... perhaps if you start shooting EARLY in the pregnancy, the baby will get used to the noise and not jump about so much. (Rolling thunder's enough to scare ANYONE who's not used to it.......) ;)

March 24, 2004, 04:25 PM
Agree with Girlwithagun and SiG Lady.

No course discounts for me, either, but I don't expect them...

I am usually treated at the range as an equal, but I do get the occasional "sideways" look at the beginning of a class, as in "Great, someone that's going to slow down the class." Bad.

About midway through the class, once I start kicking some fanny, I get the same "sideways" look as in "Damn, I wonder what agency she is with?" I've been asked that several times. The answer is "None!" "Civilian!!!" Good!

And, I have had my range bag carried for me....


March 24, 2004, 04:33 PM
I gotta' get my wife shooting!

ken w.
March 24, 2004, 04:46 PM
I wish my girlfriend would go shooting with me more often,and when she does she shoots better than most of the guys!.She made a complete a$$ of an old guy who said something rude about her and handleing a rem. 1100 trap gun.She shot a strait 24 but missed the last one.It was her 3rd or 4th time out.I can't shoot that good.That old guy didn't shoot the rest of the day!Every time I take her out she seems to enjoy it but says she does it for me and then makes me take her to the mall!:rolleyes:

March 24, 2004, 04:56 PM
GirlWithaGun, after having the pleasure of meeting you in Annapolis,hearing your testimony,and talking with you, as well as associating with you on this fine board, I'd be honored to have you as a shootin' partner ANYTIME,ANYWHERE.:D Remember folks, she showed up on Feb. 10th,and March 16 with her two sons,stayed all day,both days, to help our (hers too) cause. And her two boys were about as lively as a 220 charge going through a 110 line.

Admit it, most guys,some guys would have punked out,having to stay all day with two lively kids. All the above to say that she showed more devotation,dedication,spirit,etc then a lot of so called RKBA/2A involved male shooters.

As far as the issue of pregnant woman and shooting, In our basic pistol classes we cover this at length. While there is no solid medical proof that the fetus is harmed by exposure to the noise of gunfire,to be on the side of caution,we strongly advise that any woman in any stage of pregnancy abstain from shooting. The embryonic fluid will substain and protect the fetus,but will also allow sound to travel and either have a harsh and/or soothing effect of the fetus.

SiG Lady
March 24, 2004, 05:13 PM
One of the neat things about being treated more or less 'equal' at the range is, the guys let me shoot THEIR guns, no questions asked. If someone brings in a new gun, one of the first things they do is offer to let me put a few rounds thru it. And I usually do. We learn by doing. ...and sharing.


March 24, 2004, 06:51 PM
girls with guns are hawt!

even my wife :neener:

March 24, 2004, 07:46 PM
Dear Girlwithagun,

My Grilwithagun shoots skeet with me, goes to the range with me, takes shooting related classes with me and helps me make decisions on the next gun to buy. This next August, we will have been married for 36 years. I love to shoot, but mostly, I love to shoot (or anything else) with her. I think the best thing about a Girl with a gun is when the interest is shared with someone special.

I wish you the same happiness we have had.

Be well,


March 24, 2004, 07:59 PM
Don't know if its good or bad. Just an observation.

Is it really a smart idea to give woman a loaded handgun when she is in that "irritable" time of month? Just askin'.

March 24, 2004, 08:08 PM
Dear Waitone,

We've made it 35 years and counting and always had a gun in the house. Believe me, she's got a temper, too. For me, her big brown eyes are much more dangerous than any firearm.

Be Well,


March 24, 2004, 08:10 PM

Well, it sure isn't wise to try to take it away from her.


Premenstrual Syndrome: Just before their periods women behave the way men do all the time. -- Robert Heinlein

Dave R
March 24, 2004, 08:51 PM
Yes, there is danger to a fetus' ears from shooting while pregnant.

The ears become fully funtional around 6 months into the pregnancy. And they are developing before that. (Someone who knows more can verify/amend that timing)

Water transmits sound much more effectively than air does. Any noise that could damage your hearing, could damage the baby's. There is no way to put on hearing protection in utero.

So that's a downside to being a girl with a gun.

One more advantage--I've talked to several instructors who say girls become better shooters faster than boys. Dunno if its better fine motor skills, fewer bad habits to undo, or what. I guess that's sexist, but that's what I hear. In the CCW class I took, a woman won the final competition.

'Course, we had to use range guns instead of our own. And the light was bad. And I didn't know POI/POA on the gun I was using.

March 24, 2004, 09:58 PM
10) If you give him that cute, pouty look, you husband/boyfriend will probably clean your guns for you after you're done shooting. Even if he didn't go that day!

March 24, 2004, 10:08 PM
You forgot to mention that you also will have no trouble FINDING at least a boyfriend, if not husband by going shooting. :D

Ladies who like "guy stuff" like golf, hiking, fishing usually have no trouble finding guys who are happy to take them along :)

March 24, 2004, 10:45 PM
One more advantage--I've talked to several instructors who say girls become better shooters faster than boys.

I've been told that it is because women actually listen to trainers as opposed to guys assuming that they excel with any tool just by a virtue of being guys.

And it was my husband who told me so I tend to agree.


March 24, 2004, 10:49 PM
OK, shooting and pregnancy. here goes:

1) loud noises pose no risk to the fetus.

though sound is transmitted well underwater,
sound originating in air is not transmitted well across the interface
from air to water. When scuba diving you hear the boat motor well
regardless where the boat is, but it is not deafening. Further, if a
seaplane lands on the water (even right over you) you can't barely hear
the engine, despite the 'loudness' of the plane engine.

if loud noises could cause deafness in feti, then women couldn't work
as baggage handlers on the ramp, nor in factories where
loud noise exposure is more pronounced and prolonged (8-12 hours
at a time while working a shift) than firing for a few minutes at the firing range.
many pregnant women work in settings where they are required to wear
hearing protection, and their offspring do not become hearing impaired.

2) lead poses a risk to the mom. Anyone who shoots (alot) SHOULD
wear gloves when policing brass (cloth or leather) and cleaning the weapon
(nitrile). However, most of the lead exposure when shooting is NOT from skin contact,
it is from the inhalation of the powder, primer and aerosolized bullet.
lead tranmission across the placenta (to the baby) is nominal ( ie VERY LITTLE).
(feti are different than small kids chewing on window sills with lead based paint)
further, ingestion of food containing heavy metals (say mercury in fish)
MAY THEORETICALLY pose a risk to the fetus! no one knows!

if you shoot indoors (alot) wearing a respirator is a good idea. if you shoot alot
regardless of locale, you should check your lead level regularly (yearly).
if you shoot and you are pregnant, you may continue to shoot.
if you work in a loud factory 8 hours each day, 5 or 6 days per week
please be sure to wear hearing protection, and don't worry about
your baby having hearing loss after pregnancy.

"I don't know nothing about shootin' or fightin' but if it was me, I'd..." Clint Smith

March 24, 2004, 11:52 PM
Just curious if you have any kids Doc?

I can't imagine taking a chance with something so precious as a baby for something so mundane as a little range time.

March 25, 2004, 12:11 AM
Another opinion, less soothing than Doc's ~

From http://iweb.tntech.edu/cpardue/pregnant.html

Numerous studies demonstrate that exposure to noise during pregnancy, has been linked to such disorders as miscarriage, intrauterine growth retardation, premature delivery (less than 37 weeks), decreased birth weight, hearing loss in babies and children, altered immune response in the fetus and hypertension during pregnancy (a potentially severe disorder). Interestingly, one study showed that a combined exposure to noise and lead seemed to have an increased toxicity, causing heart lesions, which was not observed for either of those agents in isolation. The question again, is "How relevant are the studies to our very specific question?" The answer again, is "We just don't know." Is it something we want to chance?

Lots more info at the link.


She's descended from a long line her mother listened to. -- Gypsy Rose Lee

March 25, 2004, 07:29 PM

yes, twin boys, they are five.
yes, i take umbrage to your inference.

to anyone else who cares:

you know, i can be wrong about firearms, alot, and it doesn't matter.
however, i know ALOT about pregnancy, birth, medicine and womens health.
and i really can't be wrong in those areas
do you really want to argue with me about these topics?

endangering pregnant women and their unborn infants
is anathema and antethetical to my existance.
I AM the one person who has to cut through all the
garbage which is told to pregnant women
and tell them what ACTUALLY poses a risk to their fetus.

Please believe whatever you would like.
Please feel free to abstain from shooting while pregnant.
But in answer to the original question as to whether
women who are pregnant can shoot,
the answer is 'yes'.

you really don't need to read the rest, because the rest
is just the rantings of 'some guy on this gun board on the internet'

Dr. Heiskell is an acquaintance of mine and an "expert" about alot of stuff.
He is an ER physician and more into the tactical world. He is not a researcher.
He is not an OB nor does he have to tell pregnant women every day
what may or may not pose a risk to their fetus.

If you read the OPINION of the authors they state that there is NO EVIDENCE
as to the impact of loud noises on the fetus. And the "experts" they cite
have differing OPINIONS. In the EEC they have noise limits for pregnant
women. That's great! Mom also gets a year off after the delivery in Sweden!
Just so you know, in the Scandanavian countries OB's routinely reccommend sauna to
their pregnant patients BUT IN THE USA WE ADVISE AGAINST IT!!
One cultural conclusion/recommendation is neither DATA nor FACT; just more

As to lead, more conjecture and opinion.
We know Heavy metals are dangerous, especially to kids and to feti;
BUT the data comes from mercury exposure to pregnant women who
worked in hat factories around 1900. Unfortunately,
there is NO DATA from which to draw conclusions regarding the actual exposure
to a fetus if mom SHOOTS GUNS. It's neither equivalent, nor can it be
acurately extrapolated.

If mom shoots. She already has lead in her system.
And the fetus will be exposed to lead during the pregnancy.
Even if she does not shoot when pregnant!
(Metals are not 'cleared' from the body.)

FWIW, the quote above is an utter fabrication,
loud noises do not cause any bad effects including:

miscarriage, intrauterine growth retardation, premature delivery (less than 37 weeks), decreased birth weight, hearing loss in babies and children, altered immune response in the fetus and hypertension during pregnancy (a potentially severe disorder)

just so you know lots of activities are incorrectly blamed for bad occurances:
powerlines cause cancer, for example. and even if one person were to be born
deaf who's mom worked in a loud environment doesn't mean the loud
environment caused deafness (anedote does not equal causality).

And since you brought it up:

25% of all human pregnancies which reach 6+ weeks miscarry.
85% of them are because of genetic defects which are
incompatible with life the rest we don't know why.
75% of women who have a positive pregnancy test on day 32 of the menstrual
cycle miscarry!! most before they even know they are pregnant.

50% intrauterine growth retardation occurs because of smoking, drug use, placental
problems and infections in mom, the rest we don't know why.

33% of premature labor happens because of smoking, drug use, placental
problems and infections in mom, the rest we don't know why.

no one knows why some babies have premature delivery
(which means before 36 or 34 weeks, because delivery after
36 weeks is not stopped and is considered of no concern in a spontaneous labor).

except for the occurance of infections
(particularly due to the exanthema of childhood: measles, rubella, et al and herpes)
no one know why kids are born blind or deaf.

i don't even know what an "altered immune system" really means so I can't tell
you what may cause it, but if it was a disease, that would be different.

these are all bad things, BUT
sometimes bad things just happen and
no one and nothing is to blame!!
humans are not machines which
easily lend themselves to causal relationships.

The chemicals inhaled at the nail salon (xylenes) are MORE dangerous
than lead, but women who are pregnant are want to give
up visits to the salon, and often refuse to believe that there
could be a risk from an activity which they desire to persue.

PS: how come no one fills out the profile and actually admits to a profession...

March 25, 2004, 07:57 PM
how come no one fills out the profile and actually admits to a profession... No one?? Hey come on ... I'm pretty sure I did on mine!!:p And there are others too I'm sure.

March 25, 2004, 08:08 PM
Doc said:Please believe whatever you would like.
Please feel free to abstain from shooting while pregnant.
But in answer to the original question as to whether
women who are pregnant can shoot,
the answer is 'yes'.


Careful here. This is like argueing with the guys that swear up and down that using Reloaded ammo for Self defence is a probelm.

Can't argue with a religion.

March 25, 2004, 09:17 PM
i could go on and on.

pregnant women see NO RISK in the usual activities
which they desire to perform:
coloring their hair, getting their nails done,
house cleaning with chemicals, painting the baby's room,
heavy lifting, driving a car, SMOKING...

but shooting, that's bad...

all of life is risk taking.
calculating the risks and assuming them is what we do
in order to live day to day.

loud noises pose no risk to the fetus

there is no data to refute that point.
furthermore, there is a myriad of anedote in this country
where pregnant women are exposed to lots of noise
without adverse outcome.

lead poses a risk to the mom...most of the lead exposure
when shooting is...from the inhalation...lead tranmission across the placenta (to the baby) is nominal...if you shoot indoors (alot) wearing a respirator is a good idea...

if you are concerned about lead exposure while shooting
(pregnant or not) you should wear a respirator.

I AM the one person who has to cut through all the
garbage which is told to pregnant women
and tell them what ACTUALLY poses a risk to their fetus.

yep, and unless there are other OB/GYN's lurking out there,
i am the only one at THR who can say that.

there is no scientific reason why pregnant women cannot shoot,
but there are lots of emotional opinions about
why Dr. Stevenson is callous, uncaring and/or wrong.

i wish i wasn't so stupid. it would seem my job is so easy to do,
anyone one can do it. no training, no education, just read a little
on the internet and POOF you are an expert.

just as a little reality check:
how many of you armchair scientists and gynecologists
go to the lawyer with a problem and tell him which court
in which to sue, and which precedents to cite
OR go to the CPA at tax time and TELL him what to
deduct :banghead:

March 25, 2004, 09:39 PM
Thank you all for your replies. Looks like this thread has been hijacked into a shooting while pregnant thread. On that subject, I suppose we should just listen to each opinion and agree to disagree.

One thing I have always liked about THR is that we all seem to respect differences in opinion, even if we don't always see eye to eye. Let's try to remember that and just get along!

Hmmm... "Trying to always get people to kiss and make up" Good or bad part of being a girl with a gun? :p

March 25, 2004, 09:48 PM

sorry for the hijack,
just trying to answer the question that was posed

i think it's awesome that you shoot
mrs. doc agrees (http://homepage.mac.com/plsmd)

as far as 'kiss and make up' goes,
nah, i'll just tell someone what's "true" in their world
over their informed opinions and facts...:fire:

remember what Standing Wolf said here on THR:

...a friend of mine is convinced that a handgun
won't shoot through a wall...
He's entitled to believe anything and everything he'd like,
but he's mistaken.

Travis McGee
March 25, 2004, 10:06 PM
Here's one more reason for women to become shooters: latent bullies who like to dominate and push ladies around will avoid you like the plague. Some of these pricks can be Prince Charming while dating, so it's nice to repel them in the early stages.

BTW, there's a strong female lead character in my novel.


March 25, 2004, 11:26 PM
Doc ~

I'm not a doctor and don't pretend to be one; I just posted what looked to my layman's eye to be an interesting link.

What I do know about having babies I know from the other side of the exam table -- I have five healthy sons. With each pregnancy, I went to a different doctor or care provider, with a different level of medical intervention, in five different towns and three different states. My first two sons were born in different hospitals in California. The next was born at home (with a certified midwife) in Arizona, the one after that was born at home (again with a certified midwife) in one town in Washington. The last one, again in Washington, was delivered in a hospital via emergency c-section following a partially abrupted placenta previa at 37 weeks (I wasn't in labor, I had had excellent prenatal care, knew that it would be a c section -- but I woke up in a puddle of blood a week before the section was scheduled). I also had one early, unexplained miscarriage, between sons #1 and #2, which happened in yet another city in California and with yet a different care provider. I always took my pregnancies and health care seriously, and studied the whole thing (I mean really studied real text books, not just read feel-good pamphlets written for weepy pregnant people or nutritional quackery wrapped up as medical advice).

None of which makes me qualified as an OB/GYN! :D

Thanks for taking the time to post the info above. It is a question that comes up fairly often when women get together to shoot, and there really isn't any solid info readily available to the layperson. (You surely aren't going to find advice on shooting while pregnant in the usual don't-worry-honey books written for pregnant people...)


Common sense is in medicine the master workman. -- Peter Latham

March 26, 2004, 01:13 AM
I can't believe nobody has mentioned dry fire practice. If you don't feel comfortable with shooting while pregnant, dryfire is the way to go. We all could use a little more dry fire practice anyway!

March 26, 2004, 04:04 AM

It sounds like it's time to get an airgun!

Chuck Jennings
March 26, 2004, 05:30 AM
The fact of the matter is, it is a good idea to reduce risk factors while pregnant. When there is inconclusive data it is prudent to err on the side of caution. Especially when a life that you are responsible is at stake. This is not irrational. It is behaving responsibly to reduce the risk factors that can easily be removed.

Btw, most women prefer their concerns to be taken seriously, not dismissed as uninformed hysteria.

Also, an advantage to being a girl with a gun is the ability to be a great role model for your children (esp the girls!)


Eskimo Jim
March 26, 2004, 08:25 AM
To get your thread back on track I'll relate last night's experience with a little background.

About a month ago I bought a S&W model 17-2 made in the 1962 that is in rather good shape. At a recent gun show, I bought a silcone gun sock and a padded gun rug for it. The only gun rug that I could find was for an 8" barreled gun and this is a 6".

Anyway, I go to put this in my range back and it wouldn't fit. It did however fit in my wife's new range bag and she proceded to claim the model 17 as her own!!!!:cuss: There's nothing like having a new purchase 'taken' away by my better half.:banghead:

Instead of taking my new addition, she lent me her range bag for the weekend.:D


March 26, 2004, 09:03 AM
You can put a pink stock on a 10/22 and not get weird looks at the range..... :)

March 26, 2004, 11:03 AM
CLBJ said: Btw, most women prefer their concerns to be taken seriously, not dismissed as uninformed hysteria.

The fact that often the concerns ARE uninformed hysteria and the expectation of being taken seriously is still there, holds both women and men back with equal vigor.

This is the essence of true equality.

I will go with a OB/GYN and medical research over a "women concerns".

Btw, Many men prefer their rational reactions to the physical world not be dismissed as lacking concern or emotional empathy.

March 26, 2004, 11:33 AM
I will go with a OB/GYN and medical research over a "women concerns".

I would go with a wide selection of medical research over the opinion of any one OB/GYN, especially if the medical research is not at all conclusive and the OB/GYN is the type of doctor who will dismiss my informed concerns as womanly hysteria that I shouldn't worry my pretty little head about.

If the research is not conclusive, I'm going to err on the side of caution -- just as I did in avoiding all alcohol while pregnant (research is not conclusive as far as what level of alcohol exposure is safe), just as I did in avoiding having my hair dyed while pregnant (hair dye probably does not cross into the blood stream in amounts sufficient to represent a true concern, but research is not conclusive), just as I did in wearing a high-quality air mask while painting the babies' rooms (realistically, I was in more danger from standing on the ladder than I was from the fumes, but I avoided the fumes and exercised due caution on the ladder).

To be told that such caution is "uninformed hysteria" is offensive -- and if it comes from a doctor, it erases much of the respect I would ordinarily give him as a medical professional. I don't like arrogance, whether it comes from an ordinary male who thinks he is more intelligent or level headed than I am just because he has a wee bit of proud flesh between his legs, or whether it comes from a doctor who refuses to believe that a layperson could possibly have any valid concerns that are not legitimately assuaged by a wave of his hand and a dismissive (and condescending) lecture that doctor knows best.

Anyway, I would very much like to see some valid studies about this, one way or the other. As I said, the topic often comes up when women get together to shoot, and there really do not seem to be any useful data out there, just a lot of opinions and speculation from all sides.


G M: So, Mrs. Smith, do you have any children?
S: Yes, nineteen.
G M: Nineteen! That's a big burden and a big responsibility. Why do you have so mnay children?
S: Well, I love my husband.
G M: Lady, I love my cigar but I take it out of my mouth once in a while.
-- Groucho Marx, on You Bet Your Life

Chuck Jennings
March 26, 2004, 12:52 PM
It is fun to share a hobby with a spouse. There is less complaining about "so much time at the range", or "so much money for guns" if you are both on the same page!!

Gus Dddysgrl
March 26, 2004, 01:26 PM
Bad-you are expected to know what to get hubby/significant other.
-female blissninnys feel threatened by you since all the guys like to hang out with you even if they aren't interested in you.
-guys expect your life to revolve around shooting and guns and no girlie things

Good-When you do get something for hubby/so you can always use it. Thus when you pick it out you pick something you will like too.
-everything hubby/so buys for himself you can take and use too.
-much more respect is given when others find out you like guns(if they are also Pro-gun)
-some guys like to hang out with you just as a friend, fellow RKBA supporter and shooter (and not always just for your body.)

Good or Bad-Lots of guys like you for it. (If you are taken more guys keep coming after you-bad. If you are single you easily find guys and get to pick the best one-good)

I think that's it for now.

March 26, 2004, 02:04 PM
One more advantage--I've talked to several instructors who say girls become better shooters faster than boys. Dunno if its better fine motor skills, fewer bad habits to undo, or what.

I've been told that it is because women actually listen to trainers as opposed to guys assuming that they excel with any tool just by a virtue of being guys.

As someone who's taken a number of women out shooting for the very first time, I think that it's mostly that "fewer bad habits to undo" part. I don't have to worry so much about them emulating their favorite movie action heroes and doing all that fine Hollywood gun handling. Ditto with the listening-to-training part--they're less worried about performing excellently right off the bat and looking macho so they relax and thusly pick it up faster.

Chuck Jennings
March 26, 2004, 02:48 PM
In CA (home of the 1 handgun every 30 days), married people have an advantage. TWICE as many guns!! :D

March 26, 2004, 03:08 PM
While there may be times when it's inconveinient in be a girl/woman/lady/female-with-a-gun it's NEVER bad to be one.

While I have respect for amlost all women, I admit I do have more admiration for intelligent ones. Owning and using firearms indicates a higher intelligence level. At least it does to me.

March 26, 2004, 06:32 PM

no offense taken as to the link.

it's too bad there is no information on most risks to pregnant women

March 26, 2004, 10:03 PM
Bad--being handed a big-a$$ mule-kicker at the range to "try", knowing full well the snickers going on behind your back.

Good--sending all 5 (or more) rounds down range without blinking an eye, or rubbing the shoulder and saying "thanks, that was cool" to the jaws sitting on the floor.

I think it's funny when the guys at the range give me funny looks when I pull out the AR or the AK or some bolt-action mil-surp.

Good--people are more willing to share with the gals than the guys. Shot my first "thutty thutty" last weekend. Got to try a .45-120 once too. Ouch!

Worst--arrogant chauvinists (of which I'll admit aren't very numerous) who think that not having external plumbing means I can't shoot. To which I respond that if they think that's the case, then they wouldn't be worried about heading down range to hold my target for me!

Almost as bad--men who think they have to shoot better than women because they are men. Had one guy with a tricked-out AR miss a steel plate at 300 yds consistently. Yet, I was able to hit it 4 out ot 5 times with the AK (granted, I wasn't aiming for the center of the plate! :eek: ) But he got so pissed that I could hit more often than he did. It was almost pathetic.

Good--being able to completely debunk the bullcrap soccer moms seem to believe. For some reason they listen to other women more than men, even though the information is exactly the same. Of course, I routinely try to use the victim thing to help them "see the light" so to speak. Fear is such a powerful motivator. :cool:

March 26, 2004, 10:30 PM
and i really can't be wrong in those areas

Ooops. Just disqualified himself from being taken seriously.

March 27, 2004, 03:13 AM
hey Quartus:

yep, i really can't be wrong in these areas.
that is, i am not allowed to be, i am not able to be
incorrect in issues of women health.
if i were wrong, then my patients would be harmed.

March 27, 2004, 05:00 AM
4.) Spamming, trolling, flaming, and personal attacks are prohibited. You can disagree with other members, even vehemently, but it must be done in a well-mannered form. Attack the argument, not the arguer.

March 27, 2004, 05:24 AM

March 27, 2004, 05:42 AM
Remember that thread we had not too long ago about experts being chased off the board by people who aren't as qualified? Ever think that some legitimate experts might not take too kindly to armchair experts?

Maybe Doc's initial posts were a bit arrogant and dismissive (I can see how there might be some of that, but they seemed on the whole more informative than anything) but it certainly can't help his response when other users put words like 'uninformed hysteria' in his mouth, or interpret a line in the most malicious way possible. For that matter, STFU isn't exactly nonconfrontational.

Maybe folks on both sides need to be a bit more thoughtful? I'd hate to see this get closed, there's some good discussion on firearms while pregnant that could be relevant to a number of our readers.

March 27, 2004, 06:49 AM
Bloodletting was a good idea used by qualified professionals.

As far as good/bad, I don't see a lot either way, except the difficulty of finding comfortable and effective carry methods.

March 27, 2004, 10:36 AM

First, I need to apologize here to Doc. I think my earlier posts in this thread were a bit too harsh, could be read as (but were not intended to be) personal attacks, and helped create an unpleasant atmosphere in this thread. Please forgive me.

Secondly, Geech makes several good points in the post above. I urge everyone to reread it. (Starting with myself, dangit.) It is very easy to come off in ways that you do not intend when communicating only by the written word, with no vocal inflection or visual cues to help clarify what is meant. It does none of us any good to immediately assume the worst about others' meanings or intentions. Good reminder, Geech.

Finally, I've done a little bit of housecleaning in the posts above. Most of the editing was simply to get the thread back on track. If you must respond to a post above, please respond to it as it is rather than as you may remember it to have been.


wearing the moderator hat on her head and a little egg on her face

The biggest problem the world experiences is that the human race still only hears and understands 13% of what the other half converys...despite speaking the same language...No wonder we have wars. -- John Collins

March 27, 2004, 11:58 AM
Well - I do envy those with significant others that share each others hobbies. (passions)
Ok - my .02¢
I'm no doctor...(musician actually-for whatever that's worth)
But - sound waves can disrupt tissue right?
sonic destruction of gall stones, sonic tissue damage to increase blood flow?
So, could or would sound waves damage fetal tissue - or would they not be "focused" enough on the specific area?
BTW - The Mozart Effect is a great book on pre-natal sound affecting intelligence - also Music, The Brain and Ecstasy is also a neat read.
Sorry to get off track....
Girls with guns..
Daydreambeliever³..... do you get better prices???:D
gensnickerwithdelighteral (sorry buddy!)(don't really work for me², does it?)

March 27, 2004, 01:15 PM
Is it really a smart idea to give woman a loaded handgun when she is in that "irritable" time of month?

Dude, I CANNOT believe you went there. You aren't married, are you?

In regards to shooting while pregnant, why risk it? God made dryfiring for a reason.

March 27, 2004, 01:46 PM
Some years ago, we lived far from everytging ( one mile to the nearest paved road). One night, the same car passed our driveway several times and parked the last time. Typically we got one car a week going by, so I thought this unusual enough to check it out. While I was investigating, my wife joined me. It was only later that I found out she had tucked her Single Six in her waist band to cover my defenseless six o clock. It was very good to have that girl with a gun on my side.

And yes, I carry her range bag and yes, I clean her pistols after every trip. She's always deserved those small courtesies.

Be well,


March 27, 2004, 03:25 PM
to pax et al:

i have reread the tread (again)

i apologize if the tone of my original post was arrogant.
it was actually frustrated. as i mentioned later,
i do dispel alot of misconceptions about risks for pregnant

i also apologize to pax if my comment on her ref to drs. heiskell
et al was abrupt. that egg looks MAVAHLOUS DAHLING, lemme
have some too...

Larry's a great guy, but his expertise is focused
just like all of ours! The other two i don't know, but clearly don't
want women who are pregnant to shoot. As far as i can tell,
they are NOT OB/GYN's. Their references, FWIW, are not on point.

Fine, they probably recommend that women don't shoot while pregnant.
I don't view pregnancy as a 'disease' but rather try to encourage women
to 'normalize' their lives while pregnant and not reorder the majority of
their activities "for the baby".

i'll be here


March 27, 2004, 04:54 PM
pax wearing the moderator hat on her head and a little egg on her face

For the egg on her face I thought that was why we have Cats and Dogs. I have always found them willing to remove said egg. Though it might be mentioned that there are those who would agrue that pregnancy should preclude any contact with dogs and cats.

In the end all any can do is get the most information you can, evaluate it to the best of your ability, then act as you see fit.

If you are wondering that is the same process that both Dr.'s and the rest of us use and sometimes neither science or emotion control for either group.

March 27, 2004, 05:41 PM
One of the many advantages of being a woman with a gun is that you get to hang out at THR, with a wide variety of fascinating and opinionated and knowledgeable people who are willing to teach you almost anything you would like to know, anytime you ask them to (or even anytime you just demonstrate, with an off-the-cuff remark, that there's something you maybe should know.) So far this thread has demonstrated that, in spades. Thanks, folks. :D


I have always believed that a true gentleman provides covering fire while a lady is reloading. -- Tamara

March 27, 2004, 05:47 PM
I can't imagine a better reason for a Girl with a Gun to get an NFA suppressor :)

March 27, 2004, 09:29 PM
My wife is an avid and very competent shooter. One of her favorite things to do is to go to the range dressed to the nines with her gorgeous 1952 Tula SKS over her shoulder, then shoot the center out of the target. First time she did that, I saw spotting scopes up and down the line all turned toward her target.:D

She also opened my eyes to the concept of treating your rifle's stock like fine furniture. When she got her SKS (all cosmolined up), she broke out the Murphy's Oil Soap (furniture soap) and cleaned up the wood without harming the finish, then applied some Old English red oil to the stock, and the wood now looks like something out of a furniture store. Best looking SKS I've ever seen.

Other thing is, it's nice to have backup! My wife is extremely levelheaded, and I trust her with a gun behind me more than any police officer I know. There have been numerous occasions throughout our married life when I had to go check on something (i.e., thump at the other end of the house, back before we had children--probably nothing, but after waiting a while and no further sounds, we wanted to clear the house before going to sleep; she always insists on backing me up with her tritium-sighted Glock 26).

March 29, 2004, 12:12 AM
My wife is a Marine Brat, which means she's probably seen her share of military ordnance. Or so it seemed when I handed her an AR-15 and several full magazines, she got right down to business:


But she was more than a little intrigued by my .45-70 and the big chunks o' lead it was sending downrange. So much so that she asked to try it herself. A big-a$$ mule-kicker, but there was no snickering by the menfolk, she was dead serious. That's a grin on her face during the recoil roll, by the way:


I clean her guns for her, too. Well, she's learning how to clean her Winchester 9422...

March 29, 2004, 03:49 AM
The good things about my wife shooting are (for her):

I get everything ready to go - range bags, ammo, target stands. Everything loaded in the truck, and all she has to do is get in.

At the range, I set up the target stands and make sure all is ready. She gets into her range bag for stuff and shoots her Ruger MK II.

After we get home, I unload everything and clean the guns.

The good things about my wife shooting (for me):

She goes to the range with me! :) This is the biggie - I don't mind doing every bit of work as long as she goes. She doesn't even shoot everytime - that's ok too.

She helps pick up my .45 brass! Sometimes my feet hurt so much she gets out there and picks it all up. She knows I hate doing it and she doesn't mind.

Now I'll go to the range by myself, but it's alot better when she goes. :D

March 30, 2004, 02:52 AM
People assume you want the smallest caliber gun or one that
"looks pretty". Umm, but I thought you were into pretty guns:confused: Aren't you a 1911 lover? Now what (handgunwise) is prettier than a nice 1911?

March 30, 2004, 08:41 AM
*tickle Chaim*
Yes, yes, my 1911 is pretty *strokes her precious*.
But that's not why I'm in love! :neener:

March 30, 2004, 10:37 AM
I've got a group of women I shoot with on a fairly regular basis, and I've become convinced that we have a lot more fun than the guys who shoot.

For one thing, there really isn't any nasty competition between us, not even in undercurrents -- just the friendly stuff. Everyone cheers for everyone else and is actually glad when the others do well.

We laugh a lot.

When we have a match, it is really fun to see the women comparing notes before shooting a stage, deciding what strategies they are going to use. Cracked me up the first time I realized that as soon as one woman had figured out "the trick" to one of the stages, she and those around her made sure everyone else had figured it out too -- because otherwise it wouldn't be as much fun. :D

For another thing, when we get together, even if no one has planned a potluck, it just kinda happens that a lot of the women bring goodies for everyone else to snack on. How many guys do that?

Every woman I shoot with also seems to have extra little creature comforts in her range bag -- things like a tube of chapstick, sunscreen lotion, baby wipes, extra gloves, or headache pills. Of course a lot of guys carry such things, too, but the proportion of well-prepared women to well-prepared men certainly seems to tip towards the women's side. Plus, if a man's got a bottle of headache pills or some sunscreen, he's just not quite as likely to offer them to everyone around him as a woman is.

All other things being equal, it is just generally more pleasant to go to the range with women shooting buddies than with guy buddies.


March 30, 2004, 11:49 AM

"Almost as bad--men who think they have to shoot better than women because they are men."

Now I don't mine being out shoot by a woman,
but being out shoot by a girl (or boy), I hate that.

DANG kids:banghead:

I hate being out shoot by 12 year olds:(

March 30, 2004, 07:10 PM
Every woman I shoot with also seems to have extra little creature comforts in her range bag -- things like a tube of chapstick, sunscreen lotion, baby wipes, extra gloves, or headache pills.

When I am shooting with THE GUYS, I am always hit up for that stuff...

And First-aid kit, and extra water and ice, and spare ear protection...

I may have gone a bit overboard when I brought the freshly baked Toll House cookies, though...

March 30, 2004, 07:21 PM
I may have gone a bit overboard when I brought the freshly baked Toll House cookies, though... Um... no.

Eskimo Jim
March 31, 2004, 08:32 AM
I'm sorry to hear that your shooting friends need the extra assistance.

I guess that I can pride myself on bringing everything I need when shooting with very little assistance from others, except pointers and advice which is always welcome.:D

Growing up I was taught to be self sufficient.


March 31, 2004, 09:08 AM
Exactly Eskimo Jim,

I am 100 Percent in agreement here. When I am someplace doing anything and find myself having to ask for help or barrowing items from others it feels like failure to me. I try always have my ducks in a row before I arrive and then make do with what I have.

When I do have to depend on others......its never more than once for the same thing.

and PAX...... Do you really share chapstick with your fellow shooters?

I look at the people I shoot with and that makes me shudder..... EEEWWWW!

March 31, 2004, 04:51 PM
Not complaining, just reporting prior experience...

As several people here have already said better than I, the idea is to be there for each other and learn from each other. Share the knowledge, water, chapstick (depending how friendly you are) extra rounds, and anything else it takes to make a good day at class or the range.

And the extra cookies...


Eskimo Jim
March 31, 2004, 04:54 PM
would you like to go shooting with me and my wife? I'll bring the gear, you bring the cookies.:D

Have a great time.


March 31, 2004, 06:09 PM
Thanks, Jim.

Appreciate the offer.


Eskimo Jim
April 1, 2004, 08:19 AM
Anytime!:D The more in the shooting sports, the better!!

Have fun shooting.


April 4, 2004, 07:43 PM
Well, Mrs. Doc just finished Ladies Defensive Hand Gun Two
at Thunder Ranch in Texas. She and the Church Lady and two
mutual friends did the course, through the blazing Texas sun,
a day of torrential rain, the low light of night shooting and
800 rounds of ammo in three days. :D

Mrs. Doc tells me that some of the ladies were unfortunate in
that their husbands had never been to the ranch, and they were
planning so they could return as a couple.

She also encourages ALL the ladies lurking on THR to go to TR;
go, go soon, go often, go without your husbands! Nothing intimidates
the MEN on the shooting line, like an unaccompanied woman
who can shoot! They often (in the later part of the course)
ask what they can do to get there wives to go to TR!

I will post photos to the web page (http://homepage.mac.com/plsmd)
as soon as i get a chance.

Oh yeah, she says there is NOTHING like the charger deck before 9 am!

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