H&R Pardner Pumpgun?


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Onmilo
September 21, 2013, 12:23 PM
I saw these guns on the shelves for a while, now they have disappeared.
What is the story?
Are they decent shotguns or junkers?
Either H&R isn't importing them right now, or are there issues?
Anyone have one and what do you think of the gun?

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wgaynor
September 21, 2013, 01:17 PM
I love budget guns. I trade a M91/30 for one a few months ago. I cut down the barrel to 18.5 inches and it's now my HD gun.

I've ran about 50 rounds through it so far. No problems noted. It works as well as a Mossberg that I had ac ouple years ago.

Some call them the 870 clone.

Ed N.
September 21, 2013, 01:39 PM
Bought one for my son last Christmas. He was only able to shoot it a few times before hunting season ended, but he did take his first snipe with it. Seems like a decent, solid gun. Servicable, well made, it's good utility gun. With some screw-in chokes and maybe an extra barrel, it'll do for everything from deer to doves to defense.

Don't know why you're not seeing them. Cabela's has them on sale for $200 right now.

ErieLurker
September 21, 2013, 02:33 PM
I prefer them to the 870 Express/SPS, others may differ. Solid, but oh are they heavy!

Fred Fuller
September 21, 2013, 11:09 PM
Local wallyworld had a 12 security model and a 20 youth model last time I was by there...

Hunterdad
September 22, 2013, 08:20 AM
< Deleted >

I've owned 3 pardner pumps. My first one was a security model I had about 8 years ago and hung a bunch of crap off it. Ended up needing to sell it for some $$.
My 2nd one was a security model as well. Put a really nice Wingmaster stock from an 870 on it and kept it in the closet. My cousin at the time was living in a pretty crappy side of town, so I gave it to him for HD. He actually had 3 guys trying to break into his house and convinced them not too with that shotgun.
I also have a camo 28" version. I used that as a waterfowl gun, oar, ice breaker for quite a few years. It even spent some time on the bottom of Lake Ontario. Decided to make the move to auto loaders for bird hunting and turned it into a slug gun. Scored a rifled slug barrel from Gander, put the remington shurshot stock on it with a 4x scope. It's a fricken tack driver.
Great gun and I would assume you can't find one because they are such a great gun.

jack p
September 22, 2013, 08:25 AM
H&R is owned by Remington, all parts with the exception of the barrel is interchangeable with the 870. I dont own one but my brother does and when compared to my 870 it stacks up quite nicely. I would have no problem relying on it to save my life made in China or not.

Uniquedot
September 22, 2013, 01:36 PM
My local wal-mart had them the other day and academy had some the last time I was in there. I haven't handled one, but I don't think I've heard anything negative on them other than where they're made.

DNS
September 22, 2013, 06:02 PM
My Protector is a tank and works great. Norinco is the parent company of Hawk btw. I believe they build all the shotguns for the PRCs military and police so they have plenty of experience. Can't keep them on the shelves here either.

ErieLurker
September 22, 2013, 06:03 PM
The 870 and the PP are assembled in the same Remington plant (Ilion), with the same Remington proof marks on the barrels.


DNS wrote:

My Protector is a tank and works great. Norinco is the parent company of Hawk btw. I believe they build all the shotguns for the PRCs military and police so they have plenty of experience. Can't keep them on the shelves here either.

Was so impressed with the PP that I got a couple before they sold out up here. And I'm an Ithaca fan.

BemidjiDweller
September 22, 2013, 06:19 PM
I bought two H&R P3 security models this summer. Only have one issue that affects both of them. They won't pick up the last shell in the mag tube, tried all different kinds of pumping. Only fix is to get a new, longer/stronger mag spring. Other than that, they have been great.

Inebriated
September 22, 2013, 06:20 PM
The Pardner is a decent shotgun. The two that I've shot felt pretty rough, but they worked for the hundred or so rounds I've run and seen run between the two. For the price, I'd rather get an 870 (used for the same price, new for a tad more). But if you like it, go for it. I like them better than Maverick 88's, and I guess if the only criticism people have is where it's made, it can't be all bad.

md2lgyk
September 22, 2013, 08:22 PM
Though I don't have much need for a shotgun, I do own a Pardner single-shot .410 I use for critter control around the property. Decent little gun, just not fancy, works every time. Were I in the market, I'd certainly look at the "870 clone" if I couldn't find a used "real one."

2wheels
September 22, 2013, 08:22 PM
Better than decent, they're solid functional shotguns at a great price. They get flak for being Chinese made... But if you can get over that they're a great value.

I have experience with 3, one (protector model) owned by myself and 2 (protector and a hunting model) owned by a close friend. All were sold for financial reasons, but they were all good guns.

All saw a good amount of use and abuse, none had any any issues. Fit and finish weren't the best, but they're sub-$200 shotguns... What do you expect?

No matter what anyone wants to say about China, they can build a decent shotgun that I'd trust my life to.

Doc7
September 22, 2013, 10:01 PM
The latest NRA magazine publications contain advertisements for limited edition, gold plated Pardner Pumps with waterfowl inlaid designs, with 100 available for each state. So they're definitely still around : )

AKElroy
September 22, 2013, 10:18 PM
H&R is owned by Remington, all parts with the exception of the barrel is interchangeable with the 870

Hey! Maybe that non-Remmey barrel will actually allow it to extract reliably without having its chamber polished.

I might be a fan of tis cheap deelybob.

MAKster
September 22, 2013, 11:30 PM
Dicks sells the Pardner Pump for $199.

Nickel Plated
September 22, 2013, 11:55 PM
< Deleted >

Yeah, I'd prefer it have a "Made in the USA" stamp on the receiver, but I will not claim it's a low quality product. If all you have is $200 for a HD shotgun, you can't go wrong here. Even if you have more than that, you still can't go wrong with this and a case of ammo.

BTW 870 barrels can be used, you just need to make a spacer.
The difference is Pardner Pumps are made with 5-shot mag tubes and the barrel has the lug placed at the position where it would be at the end of that 5-shot tube. 870s on the other hand, are made with 4-shot tubes and the barrel lugs are placed accordingly, closer to the receiver.
If you put an 870 barrel on a PP. The lug will be sitting too far from the end of the mag tube. The end cap on the magazine will not be able to tighten down against the lug like it's supposed to and hold the barrel into the receiver.
What you need is a short length of pipe that can slip over the magazine tube between the front of the barrel lug and the magazine end cap. That way the cap presses down on the pipe and the pipe presses down on the barrel lug.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=79948

Fred Fuller
September 23, 2013, 08:47 AM
Just my opinion. I'm not trusting my life with a cheap, chinese made gun.

Hey, this is the Internet, remember? Opinions are what count most here, right?

Folks, we are NOT going to launch another flame war over this. Period. If you want one, buy it. If not, don't.

As for facts, while everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no one is entitled to their own facts. Here's what I can offer as to my own history with Norinco clones.

I went for years without buying one of the Norinco 870 clones, because I always found 'real' 870s cheaper in good used condition.

Then that stopped and the clones got cheaper than the real thing. So I picked one up just to experiment with, several years ago. I took it and an 870 Express to my gunsmith, and we field stripped both and went over them part by part. He file tested the steel in both guns and indicated that in some cases there seemed to be better metal in the Norinco. Fit and finish were about even as both guns were bought used and had been used some more.

Now I have about half a dozen Norinco clones - Hawk 981s, a 982, and several Pardner pumps. They're rougher to start with as far as the action goes but they smooth up with use. I haven't broken one yet. Are they as good as 870s? I don't know, it'll take another 40 years or so to answer that question. But I sure don't feel undergunned with one.

And Remington even copied the Security model of the Pardner pump in its newer 5077 model with the six round magazine. If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, what does that say?

Uniquedot
September 23, 2013, 11:06 AM
< Removed >

I always prefer to buy American, but since I already have plenty of American made firearms I don't think it would bother my conscience too badly to add a Chinese clone to my safe. I actually did go out once looking for one of those Asian clones of 37's, but they were out of stock and I never did a follow up.


He file tested the steel in both guns and indicated that in some cases there seemed to be better metal in the Norinco.

I'm assuming since he is a gunsmith he knows which parts need to be softer in order to prevent breakage? I'd be interested in seeing some type metallurgy test done on clone guns. I know I read an article several years ago talking about guns from China and the article stated that they used some metals of questionable quality, but the article was about OLD military clones (I don't remember which ones). The thing we have to remember about imports today is that it's the importer that gets sued...not the Chinese so I would assume they are tested and held to strict quality controls.

Onmilo
September 23, 2013, 07:15 PM
The only thing I got out of this was post #30
Pardners at Dicks for $199
Are these sporting guns or security guns and walnut or plastic stocks?

By the way,
MAKster, My wife is in the big big city tonight and is gonna wander over to Dick's and see what they have on hand.
Thanks

plumberroy
September 23, 2013, 10:33 PM
< Removed by ugaarguy >
I took it and an 870 Express to my gunsmith, and we field stripped both and went over them part by part. He file tested the steel in both guns and indicated that in some cases there seemed to be better metal in the Norinco
Even with a tempered set of files this will just get you in the general area . To test metal hardness takes several steps you need to know the chemical make up of the steel before you can even set up to get the hardness you want. First test is to hit it with a file just under the hardness you want. Then you rockwell test them . Then you magna flux them to check for cracking during hardening. Then you cut a sample and look at the crytaline structure under a microscope I kept the machines running that harden the parts for borg warner transfer cases for 8 years

I not saying you can't get a decent gun. I make the choice to buy other options if available because I prefer to support my people before any other country. < Removed by ugaarguy > If you choose to buy that is your chioce Just don't assume your choice is the only choice, or the best chioce for every one.

Nickel Plated
September 25, 2013, 08:19 PM
True, China cuts corners on most of their exports. But, much like Russia, making guns is one thing they're good at.

I would have no problem trusting a Norinco shotgun for defense. After thorough testing and some work to smooth things out, but that applies to any gun.

< removed by ugaarguy >

plumberroy
September 26, 2013, 06:15 AM
< removed by ugaarguy >
I would have no problem trusting a Norinco shotgun for defense. After thorough testing and some work to smooth things out, but that applies to any gun.
I read somewhere a defennsive gun should have at lest 500 rounds through it without a problem before even considering it for self defence use

ugaarguy
September 27, 2013, 12:39 PM
Folks, we are NOT going to launch another flame war over this. Period. If you want one, buy it. If not, don't.

As for facts, while everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no one is entitled to their own facts.
Everyone, take heed of what Fred posted. Lets stick to the facts about the shotgun in question.

Food defects don't count - food gets tainted all over the world wherever it's made. That doesn't have any applicability to this thread.

Toys and building product defects don't apply to the shotgun in question either. Those products can be, and often have been, defective even when made in the US and other Western countries.

What we need to remember is that products manufactured in China are like products manufactured anywhere else in the world. The company selling the product has to balance manufacturing quality and features vs. cost. There are products of all quality levels manufactured in every industrialized nation in the world.

So, from here out lets stick to facts and experience. If anyone can't follow those guidelines this thread will be locked.

Edit to Add: I'm locking this temporarily while I clean it up to THR standards. It will be reopened shortly so we can discuss the Pardner Pump in a constructive manner.

ugaarguy
September 27, 2013, 02:23 PM
I've just spent the better part of the last half hour cleaning up this thread. I've deleted sixteen (16) posts, and edited almost every other post in this thread because they referred to the deleted material in some way.

I've chosen not to hand out any infractions. If your post was entirely deleted consider it a warning. Posts that were edited but not deleted in their entirety do not constitute a warning. They were edited to get this thread back on track.

I understand economic patriotism. Like several folks here I prefer to buy US made when products of relatively comparable quality and price are available. However, that's outside the scope of this thread, and generally outside the scope of THR.

I'm reopening this thread. If I have to delete or edit another post in this thread formal infractions will be given. Let's keep it on the topic of the shotgun at hand, and facts and experience relating to it.

BlueSmoke14
January 20, 2014, 05:45 PM
I've been using my Pardner Pump Protector for a while now. Very robust and reliable action. I have been doing some buck shot and slug testing. Very impressed that the Remington made barrel is regulated well and hits point of aim at 25 yards off the bench.

I've accumulated my test results at www.facebook.com/PardnerProtector

Check them out if you like. Like my page to be updated on additional test results.

plmitch
January 20, 2014, 05:54 PM
Bought one for my wife, she loves it. Well worth the money.

NMPOPS
January 21, 2014, 05:33 AM
I just can't bring myself to buy anything made in China unless I have no choice. That's why I chose a Mossberg 500, Made in the USA (Texas by God) and almost as inexpensive as the imports.

FIVETWOSEVEN
January 30, 2014, 03:14 PM
I was in Walmart the other day and saw them for sale for $179. I miss my Sportsman 12 (early express model) and would love to finally replace it. I just wish they made the PP with a 4 shot magazine instead of the 5 shot so regular 870 barrels would easily fit. I'll probably just make a spacer at some point if I do pick one up.

Inebriated
January 31, 2014, 02:28 AM
^Look into having a machinist shorten and re-thread the magazine tube. I'm almost positive I've read about someone doing that to their Pardner.

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