Humvee-mounted sniper finder


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Nathaniel Firethorn
March 24, 2004, 02:46 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/ptech/03/24/newtech.iraq.ap/index.html

"New high-tech tools help soldiers pinpoint gunfire in Iraq"
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2004/TECH/ptech/03/24/newtech.iraq.ap/vert.newtech.ap.jpg

- pdmoderator

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strambo
March 24, 2004, 03:10 PM
Umm, I'm sure it will work, the problem is deciding if the technology worked or if they shot at that Humvee 'cause it looked important!:uhoh:

strambo
March 24, 2004, 03:14 PM
Heck, I'll bet you could find a Marine or two willing to put that in their ruck, then you could really find some snipers!:what: :neener:






Yes, I'm former Army...bring on the flames...seeks cyber cover:scrutiny:

Bartholomew Roberts
March 24, 2004, 03:15 PM
I've actually seen a DARPA proposal of a similar system hooked up to a Mk19... the system would determine where the gunfire came from and automatically return fire with the Mk19.

eyz
March 24, 2004, 03:16 PM
looks like a mike stand at a press conference

strambo
March 24, 2004, 03:31 PM
I've actually seen a DARPA proposal of a similar system hooked up to a Mk19 Thats what I'm talkin' bout! Say my name! Whose your American Daddy!

It would certainly suppress the sniper, lots of collateral damage in an urban environment, unless you had line of site confirmation. Out in the boonies it would be great, immediate 40mm counter battery fire out to 2000m or so. Keep him pinned while you flank...

strambo
March 24, 2004, 03:33 PM
looks like a mike stand at a press conference

Precisely...the best way I can think of to draw sniper fire!:p

Telperion
March 24, 2004, 03:33 PM
I wonder how it responds to suppressed (both supersonic and subsonic) fire.

strambo
March 24, 2004, 03:43 PM
In case some of you don't know what a Mk19 is, this is why I got so excited.

http://www.mst2-vietnam.info/Stoner_ordnance_notes/stonerhtml/MK19_Grenade_Laucher.htm

Funnest gun I ever shot! I mean um, "qualified" with.

2nd Amendment
March 24, 2004, 10:35 PM
Perfect trgt for the sniper's first shot...

4v50 Gary
March 24, 2004, 10:48 PM
It has to feed data into a standby weapon system for instant retaliation to be really effective. Hmmm. Neutron bomb would seem to apply here.

JimJD
March 24, 2004, 11:22 PM
I remember watching a news piece a couple of years ago about an American city/town that was toying around with a system like this.
It consisted of a network of mikes placed all around the locale.
Most of the mikes were placed in "bad" neighborhoods.

I wonder if a Fourth of July celebration would confuse the system?
Hmmmm...

CZ100B
March 24, 2004, 11:26 PM
I wonder how it responds to suppressed (both supersonic and subsonic) fire.

It tracks the shockwave of the bullets path, not the sound of the weapon being fired, so suppressed weapon makes no difference whatsoever.

Jeremy

M1911Owner
March 25, 2004, 12:17 AM
And for subsonic fire?

Nick1911
March 25, 2004, 12:33 AM
I remember watching a news piece a couple of years ago about an American city/town that was toying around with a system like this. It consisted of a network of mikes placed all around the locale.
Most of the mikes were placed in "bad" neighborhoods.


Allow me to don my tin foil hat...

And then the thought police came... They heard a malicious terrorist plot against the state over the telescreen... A man had admitted to wanting to carry a knife! This murder MUST be taken off the streets for the protection of the state... err.. I mean "citizens" :scrutiny:

Nick

CGofMP
March 25, 2004, 12:47 AM
This may be what you are thinking of.



http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17310&highlight=redwood+city


Here is a story on one deployed in Redwood City California:


http://www.govtech.net/magazine/gt/1996/june/shooters/shooters.phtml (http://www.govtech.net/magazine/gt/1996/june/shooters/shooters.phtml)

Sactown
March 25, 2004, 02:03 AM
DARPA...the original Men In Black....phasers set to vaporize...

The_Antibubba
March 25, 2004, 02:57 AM
Is it just me, or would anyone else be uneasy trusting their safety to a device designated the "Boomerang"? Brrrrrrr. :what:

CZ100B
March 25, 2004, 10:37 AM
And for subsonic fire?

Technically, it shouldn't matter. Subsonic bullets still produce a shockwave, it just isn't the super-compressed variety.

Also, any rifle that is capable of penetrating a soldier's helmet or armour jacket, will be firing a supersonic bullet.

Jeremy

raz-0
March 25, 2004, 04:16 PM
hmm, now if they ever get the networked soldier realized, this would be extra cool, between GPS and a microphone on each deployed unit, you could track pretty much any enemy fire anywhere on the field..

in theory.

kernal_panic
March 25, 2004, 05:53 PM
It tracks the shockwave of the bullets path, not the sound of the weapon being fired, so suppressed weapon makes no difference whatsoever.

your reading skills are lacking read it AGAIN. it tracks the supersonic shockwave AND the muzzle report. They are going to be up s-creek when the 1st bullet fired its at the system and toasts it. remember the bullet is traveling FASTER than sound. that means it can smash through the equipment BEFORE the sounds used to track it are heard by the mics!

CZ100B
March 25, 2004, 06:13 PM
your reading skills are lacking read it AGAIN. it tracks the supersonic shockwave AND the muzzle report. They are going to be up s-creek when the 1st bullet fired its at the system and toasts it. remember the bullet is traveling FASTER than sound. that means it can smash through the equipment BEFORE the sounds used to track it are heard by the mics!


So it does use muzzle blast to help out, but the point that a suppressed rifle will not be able to spoof the system is still the primary point. I was mixing this up with a different system (a more permanent solution that will eventually come out) that uses a laser to measure the shockwave, and so it has no exposed external parts like this first setup for a sniper to shoot at.


If the sniper uses his first round to destroy the system, that is still a good thing, as it is usually the first bullet fired that actually kills someone. The fact of the system being destroyed will give the troops time to react.

:rolleyes:

Jeremy

memorex
March 25, 2004, 07:03 PM
It won't work- if the system automtically returns fire, it'll just weed out all but the best snipers, then they will have offspring who are even better snipers!...

kernal_panic
March 25, 2004, 09:53 PM
so what do you do when the bullet is both subsonic and suppressed?

Bob F.
March 25, 2004, 11:06 PM
I've often wondered how many Arabs have died from falling bullets.......

Referrence CGofMP's link, sorry.

Travis McGee
March 25, 2004, 11:40 PM
The game of sniper-countersniper will go on forever. This could be an effective tool in time, but I don't think Joe Snuffy is going to be carrying it out on patrol. Joe Snuffy, who gets sniped at all the time....

Bob F.
March 26, 2004, 12:02 AM
Don't remember the show, but a couple weeks ago they did the sniper thing, maybe the "History Channel". Included alot on Carlos Hathcock; 'Whitefeather' told of the NVA bringing in their best and the two hunting each other. Hhhmmmmm.

hapafish
March 26, 2004, 01:52 AM
I really don't believe I would want to pack this in my ruck or assault pack. However, I would be inclined to reconsider if this thing picks up satellite TV and also XM Radio :D

Triad
March 26, 2004, 01:55 AM
Also, any rifle that is capable of penetrating a soldier's helmet or armour jacket, will be firing a supersonic bullet.


Think again. (http://www.world.guns.ru/sniper/sn20-e.htm)

CZ100B
March 26, 2004, 10:36 AM
so what do you do when the bullet is both subsonic and suppressed?

If they built the system right it will still be able to trace a subsonic bullet, even without the shockwave. Lots of ambient noise (say marketplace) would greatly decrease the subsonic tracing ability.

That subsonic russky rifle is pretty cool. I hadn't seen that one before.

Jeremy

Triad
March 26, 2004, 01:47 PM
Yeah, you gotta love the Russians.

How long do you think it will be before somebody decides it's a good idea to miniaturize that gadget and glue it to helmets?

Stinkyshoe
March 26, 2004, 01:55 PM
How does it distinguish between friendly fire(aimed at enemies) and enemy sniper fire? It seems as though it could be hard to manage, just like the Patriot Missle system.

Trigger
March 26, 2004, 02:12 PM
Interesting concept and I hope it works to keep our soldiers safer.

But I have to think that it's calibrated for specific rifles and if you use on that it's on the list it might not work. Second, it's gonna be tough to distinguish the various sounds in an urban environment. And finally, and probably most important, if the sniper has any training at all he'll know not to stick around in one location long enough to be targeted.

Probably good for the crazy wanna be who's camped out in one hide for the afternoon.

CZ100B
March 26, 2004, 05:19 PM
How does it distinguish between friendly fire(aimed at enemies) and enemy sniper fire? It seems as though it could be hard to manage, just like the Patriot Missle system.

Right now, I don't think it can. Later versions should be able to 'hear' if the round is inbound, or outbound, and account for them accordingly.

I had heard about a helmet mounted microphone system to track snipers a few years back, but they couldn't get it to work. I wonder how much of this system is based on that first effort?

Jeremy

moa
March 26, 2004, 06:09 PM
I wonder if it would work well in a heavily built up urban environment or in mountain canyons, where the sound is bouncing off buildings or canyon walls?

Roadkill
March 26, 2004, 09:44 PM
Let's see, night vision - that won't ever work, laser guided bombs- never happen, GPS - no damn way, pilotless air planes with cameras flown from thousands of miles away that can shoot laser guided smart bombs at bad guys in the dark - gotta be dreaming. Be patient guys, whatever that is has got to be quicker and better than a bunch of tired truckdrivers piling out of their cabs shooting like hell trying to supress fire without knowing where its coming from. Probably a lot safer for everyone too.

rk

Frohickey
March 26, 2004, 10:16 PM
Neato... I wonder how it works during the rainy season. :neener:

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