[Olrocker]

A friend of mine emailed this...in his words, "Simply unbelievable. Winston Churchill must be spinning in his grave fast
enough to generate electricity."

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2687311

Man Who Killed Armed Intruder Jailed Eight Years

By Will Batchelor, PA News
Tue 23 Mar 2004

A man who stabbed to death an armed intruder at his home was jailed for
eight years today.

Carl Lindsay, 25, answered a knock at his door in Salford, Greater
Manchester, to find four men armed with a gun. When the gang tried to rob him he grabbed a samurai sword and stabbed one of them, 37-year-old Stephen Swindells, four times.

Mr Swindells, of Salford, was later found collapsed in an alley and died
in hospital.

Lindsay, of Walkden, was found guilty of manslaughter following a
three-week trial at Manchester Crown Court.

He was sentenced to eight years' imprisonment.

After the case, Detective Chief Inspector Sam Haworth said: "Four men,
including the victim, had set out purposefully to rob Carl Lindsay and
this intent ultimately led to Stephen Swindells' death.

"I believe the sentences passed today reflect the severity of the
circumstances."

Three other men were charged with robbery and firearms offences in
connection with the incident, which took place in February last year.

[agricola]

http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk/lancashire/archive/2004/03/10/NEWS6ZM.html

Sword man got threat over phone, court told
A DRUG dealer robbed at gunpoint was told on the phone a month earlier that he was "going to get it and they would take his stuff", a murder trial was told.

Carl Lindsay, aged 25, was with a friend, Adam Prince, when he answered his mobile phone, the jury at Manchester Crown Court heard. Mr Prince said Lindsay could not identify the caller.

Around a month later, in February last year, Mr Prince and his friend Darren Pettigrew went to Lindsay's flat in Hollyoake Road, Walkden, for drugs.

Three men slipped in behind them and robbed Lindsay of cash.

But after two guns were pointed at him, Lindsay allegedly took out a Samurai sword, held it shoulder high and chased the trio out of his flat aiming blows at them.

Lindsay has pleaded not guilty to murdering the alleged gunman, Stephen Swindells, aged 33, of Harwood Court, Salford.

Mr Swindells had four main wounds, all inflicted from behind. An artery was severed causing massive blood loss and death.

Lindsay is in the dock with Darren Ashton, aged 29, of Coniston Avenue, Little Hulton; David Ryan, aged 30, of Culverwell Drive, Salford; and alleged getaway driver Michael Page, aged 25, of Trenthamlowas, Salford.

Ashton, Ryan and Page all deny robbing Lindsay of cash and having a self-loading pistol.

Mr Prince said two of the robbers had their jacket hoods up and the gunman wore a balaclava. He did not see the sword hit anyone but two or three blows were quickly aimed before the men were out of his sight.

Mr Prince, questioned by Richard Marks QC, for Lindsay, said the robbers' conduct had been very frightening.

Afterwards, Lindsay looked profoundly shocked and the witness said he saw the blood stains on the sword. In the hallway he saw one of the guns.


once again, as the Tony Martin and Barry-Lee Hastings case shows, juries dont accept that shooting/stabbing someone in the back as they are running away from you is self defence, and being a drug dealer doesnt help.

[Olrocker]

Hmmm....point taken.

[Unlucky]

Yep, you should get shot in the front by multiple assailants with superior weaponry in your own home. :rolleyes:

[Don Gwinn]

Oh, come on, Unlucky. IF the account in Agricola's article is true and the other is not, there's no way that would have been considered justified in most American states, either.

That said, I don't know that I would have convicted the guy of murder and I know that in many other states, he would have had the right to use deadly force simply because they forced their way in and attempted a felony.

I question whether it really makes sense to say you have to cease combat every time your assailants turn their backs to you. It would be hard to tell what they intended to do.

I personally try to train myself to let fleeing felons flee.

Maybe he had one of the Home Shopping Network katanas, and he smacked it on the countertop to show the robbers he meant business. Then half the blade just popped off and flew into the dead guy's chest. It's happened before. :D
http://shadowdane.shackspace.com/Knives.mpeg

[agricola]

don,

he wasnt convicted of murder, just manslaughter. the fact that he got eight years just shows how unimpressed the judge was with his defence case.

[Unlucky]

Oh, come on, Unlucky. IF the account in Agricola's article is true and the other is not, there's no way that would have been considered justified in most American states, either.

Perhaps, but having weapons they could use outside of the 3-5 foot immediate range of a katana (never mind 7 yards rule I believe police use for knives), the advantage belongs to the perps here. They could regroup and come back to finish things at a safer distance, or storm his house. This isn't one man with a shotgun against two burglars, but three perps, one, perhaps all, armed with handguns to the victim's knowledge, against a lone man with a sword. Unless he was a "Zen Master" or something, I'd take a gun anytime for an edge. Simply, If you don't want to die, don't commit a violent crime.

[Art Eatman]

I appreciate Texas law more and more, after reading of travesties of this nature.

If the fleeing felon would be deemed by the proverbial "rational and prudent person" to be a continuing threat to the community, you may shoot him (or stab) as he runs away.

An armed felon, fleeing from a robbery, is reasonably considered an ongoing threat.

Art