[The Silver Bullet 1719]

I was thinking about this in my arguement-based research class this morning so here goes. I have noticed for the most part here on the High Road (and even TFL) that there are not too many Beretta 92FS fans for the most part. I know that the grip is big for some people, but other than that what is so bad about them? The military uses it as the offcial sidearm, even if the Sig P-226 did overedge it slightly, it still did a great job in the trials. (Flame-suit on) It even replaced the 1911A1. (Flame-suit off). I'm not bashing the 1911A1 by any means, I'm just saying that it did replace it and I'm NOT debating the 9mm vs 45. Just talking about the actual gun. Then there is the slide cracking stories like rusty Sigs, totally unreible 1911s, Kabooming Glocks etc. Asides from the big grips, I really can't find anything wrong with them, so what is everyone elses opinions on the 92FS?

[M1911]

Why is the Beretta 92FS so underated?I'd ask instead, why is it so overrated?

Grip is too big. Locking block fails. The decocker/safety is mounted on the slide, rather than the frame. This makes it harder to reach with your thumb and also makes it possible to accidentally apply the safety/decocker while cycling the slide.

[ojibweindian]

Ergonomically, I hate the 92FS. Hard to reach the mag release button. Hate the slide-mounted safety/decocker. And it feels like a brick in my hand.

The trigger is no better than some Rugers I've shot (my recently traded P95 has a better trigger than every 92FS with which come into contact). For all this, they want roughly $500.

No thanks.

[Diesle]

Underated.....???

[ambidextrous1]

Let's face it, the 92 has had its "15 minutes of fame".

When given a chouce, special units are opting for the 1911 type sidearm for their operational use.

Word has it that DOD is working up a procurement spec for a 1911-based sidearm.

When the fit hits the shan, which would YOU prefer to carry?

Make mine American!

Bring on the flames...

[Glockster35]

M1911 wrote:

Grip is too big. Locking block fails. The decocker/safety is mounted on the slide, rather than the frame. This makes it harder to reach with your thumb and also makes it possible to accidentally apply the safety/decocker while cycling the slide.

I would have to agree with these comments.

As a member of the military, I am around the M9 daily, in my duties.

I have extremely small hands and I am able to manipulate the pistol just fine while firing, but I wouldn't want to take it to combat, simplyt based on ergonomics. It doesn't fit my hand well enough for me to do things quickly.

I would prefer to switch back to the m1911 for those who can show proficiency with the 1911. All others probably should go to a revolver.

[Pendragon]

Not that it would be my first choice, but if we have to go with 9mm for NATO compatibility, why not a hi-cap 1911 in 9mm?

OTOH - I think revolvers would be a good idea too. - S&W 625s :D

[RON in PA]

Can't add much more than has been said: trigger heavy, too big, safety works the wrong way and grip too large for lots of folks. I'll take a Ruger P-95 or a SIG P228 over the 92 if you are talking DA/SA pistols. On the other hand if I was a GI and had to use what was issued the M-9 isn't that bad. Also we who post here are by and large spoiled gun nuts with many pieces, if you have to use what is issued you learn the ins and outs of that weapon. Beware the man/woman with one gun.

[Skunkabilly]

When the fit hits the shan, which would YOU prefer to carry?

Make mine American!

Mine's made in the US. All the ones I have seen are.

If it's a stupid idea, but it works, it's not a stupid idea. I shoot my Beretta the best out of everything I own or have owned (2 1911s, 2 USPs but haven't put my P7 thru the paces yet) so I really don't care if people get down on the 92.

I really like the concept of the 1911 but can't shoot it worth a damn compared to my cheesy $650 Eurotrash wondernine.

I have 6000 rds thru mine and haven't had a single fte or ftf. Some finicky pieces yes, but mine is was a prototype gun and wasn't a production one.

The locking block may fail, just like the firing pins may break on my HK. I'm going to get another 92G as a spare, and if both break on the same day, God probably wants me dead ;)

[cratz2]

I bought a plain jane Beretta in about 1996. The biggest problem I had with it was the safety. Being brought up properly with 1911s ( ;) ) the safety was just completely wrong. The gun itself worked perfectly. The grip is a bit big, much bigger than the 1911s slim profile. The open barrel was a bit perplexing. Never understood why you would want that much barrel exposed unless it was to aid cooling during prolonged spray and pray sessions.

Then I read about the Taurus. Made on Beretta equipment in Brazil but with the safety in the proper location. I sold my Beretta and bought a Taurus. Paid $289 for the gun, 2 10 round mags and 3 15 round mags. The gun has served me very will since. I've put more rounds through that gun than any other centerfire ahndgun I have ever owned. When I take a new shooter out, this is usually the first centerfire gun I have them shoot unless they are very specifically wanting a revolver. The gun has absolutely never had any sort of failure with me shooting it EVER. I've put nearly every sort of ammo through it, FMJ, traditional HPs, new fangled HPs, Blasers, 115, 124, 147 Gr... they all work perfectly. I'm not the best shooter in the world but it is neck and neck accuracy-wise with my best 1911s. Hard to fault proven perfection.

Not to toot the Taurus horn too much, there is a bit of slide frame rubbing and the finish is completely worn off in that area. Still, it has never effected the performance in any way.

That being said, it is far from my favorite handgun. I'm still a 1911 guy and that is what presents and points best for me. The CZ75 platform is next and even though I don't own a BHP, I'd say I like those more than the Beretta/Taurus. I'm no fan of poly guns in general but I'd rather carry a 9mm Glock and probably even a SIG though I think SIGs are very top heavy and have too high of a bore axis. I don't know what it is about the design that makes people dislike it (or loathe it or hate it ;) ) but there is something.

[Handy]

Like a huge list of other guns, the 92 works fine. It has okay accuracy, okay capacity, is reliable. But that describes so many 9mms, so who cares?

The 92 is not particularly durable, it's wide, long and thick and has more parts (65 or 70) than most every other similar pistol. It does little to positively distinguish itself.

What sort of kudos does it deserve?

[Croyance]

Part of the problem is what I called the "Jane Pauley Effect". It replaced something very popular, so it was doomed to negative responces.
I think that there are many adherents to Berettas on TFL and THR. You tend to see the side you are on.
Blocky grip? The Glock and Ruger have much more brick-like handling qualities than the Beretta (to me), although the Beretta's grip may be larger. The following models gave more contoured grips, and the Vertec is made for smaller hands. The Beretta 92 has as large a grip as I can manage and still maintain repeatable accuracy. Admittedly the Browning HiPower has the best grip for my hands.
Mine is as accurate as anything else I own, so the trigger cannot be affecting my shot that much.
Frame mounted safety? Never moves when cycling slide or sling-shotting (real word?) the slide. I only use it as a decocker only. In DA mode I really don't need the safety.
As a range, home/car defense gun, it does fine. As a concealed carry weapon it leaves something to be desired. That is not the niche it was designed for.
Cracking slides and locking block issues? I have not heard or seen such in civilian models. Mine certainly shows no signs of it, and it is well past 5000 rounds. As you say Glocks have the Kaboom rumor as well as proven issues with the "E" series. Sigs are known for rusting away. Old 1911's are known for needing much tweaking for accuracy. Even new 1911's are said to need work for reliability. Ruger's are tainted by Bill Ruger's participation in the 1994 Assault Weapon ban and statements like "No honest man needs a gun smaller than a canned ham". S&W caved to Bill Clinton. Show me a manufacturer/design without faults.

[Boats]

I’ll give the M9/92FS some love.

I am a 1911 fan first and foremost, but the Beretta 92 series is my favorite 9mm. The ergonomics work for me, so no issue there. I am also left handed, so that the mag release is reversible and the safety/decocker is on both sides is a bonus. Now that the 92 series comes in a reduced grip/short trigger version, for civilians, the grip issues are the beating of a dead horse.

I like the Beretta for the following reasons: In my experience, the slide is the smoothest traveling I have ever seen on mass produced pistols. The 92 slide glides on its rails like no other non-custom pistol I have ever encountered. The only one that comes close to that smoothness is the HK P7M8.

I like the way the magazines situate the round in parallel to the chamber. The 92s in my experience, if the mag springs weren’t completely shot out, always feed. They always extract too. In fact, the B92 is the only centerfire pistol I have ever seen eject rounds without an extractor. Berettas also put the best dent I have ever seen in a primer, broad, deep enough, and uniform.

The Beretta has a stock chrome lined barrel. It has a “tough enough” aluminum frame that will not easily corrode. It has one of the better factory finishes put on a pistol. There is a universe of aftermarket items for this series of pistol.

I have heard that the open top slide has some trouble with sand, but I have personally never seen a Beretta jam in my eighteen years of going to a range most weekends and some evenings. It is also easy to tear down to a least a field strip, and I have every confidence in a bad guy not being able to disassemble it in my hand in spite of the “Jet Li surprise field strip myth.” With practice, the B92 is not all that difficult to detail strip. After all, they manage to teach the process to Marines.:neener:

Now, as I have said elsewhere before, I will not defend the condition of any M9s in service with the armed forces. If my days in the Navy are any indication, community property weapons, motor vehicles, rec equipment, etc., tends to be treated like community property in the most negative sense of the phrase. If Berettas are “junk” in the service, it is because they aren’t treated well. Then again the 1911s we had aboard my ship were all crap too. A civilian B92 maintained by its owner is a universe apart from a mistreated military sidearm.

Full cap mags are easy to get and inexpensive. A Beretta 92 was used to win the IDPA nationals recently. The DA pull is better than most, especially after the easy swap out of a “D” model mainspring. The SA pull is fine and can be improved with a special overtravel stop equipped trigger from Langdon Tactical Technologies.

As for the safety, most people who’ve owned B92s use it only as a decocking lever and many buy Elites, which are decock only. When used as a decock lever, the “reach” issue is a sham, because on a DA first pull pistol, the safety does not need to be on. When I was a reserve deputy however, I liked the idea of having the trigger disconnect safety in the on position, especially when doing crowd duty.

The B92 is not the paragon of pistol design, but it is a very good pistol. I am still somewhat amazed that they do only want some $500+ for it depending on the style. That is a lot of pistol for the money. Sure, it won’t probably last forever like my 1911s might, but most people will never shoot a B92 to failure either. It is not an heirloom, it is a self-defense pistol, as good as the Sig-Sauer series in my opinion.

Oh yeah, and it is the visual favorite of John Woo. I happen to think it is pretty good looking too.:evil:

[firestar]

I like the Beretta 92fs. I use mine as my HD gun. If for some reason I had to go into combat I would choose it over a 7 shot 1911 anyday. Spray and pray is a very underrated tactic.;)

I have medium sized hands but I like smaller grips, for some reason the Beretta is O.K. for me. I think it is because it is more rounded than rectangular, it seems to fit me better than a 1911 or a glock 36.

I shoot the Beretta 92fs the most accuratly fast second to my Ruger P95. I would use the P95 for HD but I don't have hi caps for it yet.

Because the Berettas are so underrated, you can often find them used for a steal.

I guess it all comes down to personal choice. I used to scorn the 92 until I got one and shot it, then I was a big fan. You can not tell everything about a gun from just holding it in a store. Sometimes it won't feel all that great in your hand but when you shoot it, it starts to feel better. I guess shooting a gun involves recoil which can affect the feel of a gun.

[denfoote]

All I'm gunna say is that I traded my 92FS for a Browning High Power!!!! :neener:

[Skunkabilly]

Oh yeah, well I'm trading my Wilson for another Beretta ;)

[Logistar]

I just like the Beretta 92. Unfortunately the grip was a bit large. -So I bought a Vertec. (other than the trigger that was easily fixed, it is fine.)

I like the idea that I can chamber a round with no chance of a ND. Sure, I KNOW... finger out of the trigger guard.... but there is an added bit of safety there. If I want to shoot SA and the hammer is down, I just cock it.

I carry with safety OFF and in DA mode. Works fine for me. The only time I use the safety is when chambering a round or when I am done shooting.... to lower the hammer. Never had a misfeed or any other malfunction. Hi-Caps have been easy to find - at least until lately.

I tried several other handguns but none of them "felt right" to me. Parts and accessories are plentiful if I need them. All I am saying is that I believe the 92FS is a decent gun. As long as it's a decent gun I say, "If the gun fits, wear it." - Literally Guns that "fit" are hard to find (for me anyway).

Logistar

[doctorj]

I just bought a 92FS secondhand, and it works fine for me. It was the best shooter right out of the box I've found so far. The nine I had before was an old 2nd generation S&W compact, and I wanted a more common gun in current production that I could also get a .22 conversion for. No complaints.

[bountyhunter]

"Let's face it, the 92 has had its "15 minutes of fame".

When given a chouce, special units are opting for the 1911 type sidearm for their operational use.

Word has it that DOD is working up a procurement spec for a 1911-based sidearm."

That pretty much answers your question about why the M9 gets ragged on so much. The .45 lovers still think some kind of NATO conspiracy was behind the Colt .45 getting the boot. In truth, it was a generally unreliable weapon with a terrible failure rate.

(.45 lovers: insert stories here about the 50-yard one-shot kills with the .45 and the 15 rounds of 9mm fired into the chest of the attacking Afghanis who never died).

Bottom line, here is why the 9mm Beretta M9 was adopted:

1) The Army set a standard for the new weapon that it had to exceed 15, 000 rounds fired (average) before any serious failure (not repairable in the field). The M9 averaged about 30,000 rounds to failure.

2) the Army's own testing showed new recruits gain acceptable accuracy levels faster with an M9 than a .45. Accuracy on the M9 remains higher without as much practice (in short, a 9mm is easier for the average guy to shoot than a .45). Duhhhhh.

3) The standard issue handgun round for NATO is the 9mm +p+ hardball and standardizing does simplify inventory problems and costs.

[George Hill]

I've been looking all my life for a handgun that I can stick with.
I love the 1911... but I never found one that I harmonized with.
I love HK's... but I never found one that I harmonized with.
I have tried on for as long as 3 years at a time, various other makes and models...
I finally found the gun for me... a well used Beretta 92FS that had a trigger and action job done to it. For only $350. High Cap mags were found as well for the right price.
I can shoot it accurately and rapidly... with 100% reliability so far.
Beretta is a good maker with a good history of well made guns. Yeah, the safety is on the slide... just like Ruger and S&W and a horde of other makers. Yeah, it's big. But the 92FS is also classified as a "Full Sized Duty Gun" not intended to be used as a CCW. So in that sense, size doesn't matter. Yet that full sized frame makes it comfortable to shoot two handed, all day long, and do it accurately thanks to the good sight radius.

I like mine. 15+ rounds of 9MM go a long way to make up for the fact that it isn't a .45.

[9mmepiphany]

i also grew up with the 1911, but i carry a beretta as a duty weapon on a daily basis. we are restricted pretty much to DA/SA weapons and my beretta has proven to be the most reliable. i have never had a FTF or FTE in thousands of rounds...and i'm not great about cleaning it either.

1. it does have a big grip that doesn't fit everyone (that's why they have a vertec)
2. some folks have trouble reaching the mag release (they make an extended version)
3. some folks don't like the slide mounted safety/decocker (they make a "G" model, also the "elite sereis)

on the positive side:
1. the open slide is the biggest ejection port made
2. the DA is one of the smoothest straight from the factory (lighter with "D" spring)
3. high cap mags are REALLY affordable and available (mine is the 96, .40, and mags are even more affordable)
4. you don't run the risk of breaking your extractor by dropping a round into the chamber

[agtman]

"Why is the Beretta 92FS so underated?"


Underated?

If anything, it's way overated for what it is: an overly large Euro-designed 9mm.

In terms of size and weight, a 9mm really has no business being any bigger than a Glock 19 or Sig 228, if that. People who feel that a 9mm needs to be the Beretta's size in order to "dampen recoil" really need to stick with the foo-foo calibers below .380 and wear nice soft gloves. :rolleyes:

Well, at least Beretta fixed that slide-coming-back-in-your-face thing. :what:

Hence, the "FS" designation. ;)

[Skunkabilly]

I've been looking all my life for a handgun that I can stick with.
I love the 1911... but I never found one that I harmonized with.
I love HK's... but I never found one that I harmonized with.
I have tried on for as long as 3 years at a time, various other makes and models...
I finally found the gun for me... a well used Beretta 92FS

Preach it , brother!!

[Boats]

In terms of size and weight, a 9mm really has no business being any bigger than a Glock 19 or Sig 228,

That of course wouldn't explain the size of the Glock 17 or the Sig 226, but then again we can't all be sawed off midgets with hands the size of your typical Oompa-Loompa.:neener:

[agtman]

:D


Yep, being "handicapped" by big mits sure limits your choices. :p

'Course I know a few big-handed fellas who carry Sig 228s, and one who even carries a G-26, but, hey...


:cool:

[Steve in PA]

Under rated??? Only by people who think the 1911's are the only pistols.

I've owned a 92FS for 10+ years.......and its never failed. Locking block hasn't broken........slide hasn't exploded in my face. Nothing wrong with the placement of the safety/decocker (flick of the thumb for me) or mag release. If the gun doesn't fit you........it doesn't fit you.....buy something smaller.

1911's are nice, but they aren't the pistol to judge all others by.

I too was in the military......USMC....and when I was in they still issued 1911's to us........so I am quite familiar with them. They are ok....and someday I'll probably own one.

I currently carry a Sig P-220.

[DeltaElite]

It's big, clunky, double action, 9mm and ugly.
Other than that, it's a great gun. ;)

[Blueduck]

It's big, clunky, double action, 9mm and ugly.

It is not ugly!!! :fire:

Actually I like them for many reasons listed above, but hey I also like S/W autos so what do I know:neener:

[DeltaElite]

LOL Blueduck,
You need therapy. ;)

Actually, I like Smith autos. Although it could be just because of their having chambered the 10mm. :D

If Beretta made a 10mm, I would like them too. ;)

[MikeJ]

I have a Beretta Centurion DAO 9mm that is great. I'm not particularly wild about their DA/SA versions but nobody, IMHO, makes a DAO pistol that can compete with the Beretta. Granted a lot, and I mean a lot, of people don't like DAO's but it is what I keep by my bed at night for protection. The trigger and action are super smooth and it's accuracy is second to none. I shoot this gun extremely well and I have medium sized hands. As far as I am concerned there are plenty of gun choices out there today to keep most folks happy but it does seem that whenever anybody or anything gains a bit of notoriety they become an easy target for ridicule. If you think back to the days when there weren't alot of choices in high capacity 9's, Berettas were really pretty cool. Just an observation.

[JohnKSa]

I think it doesn't get mentioned much because people who know the B92 is a good gun get tired of hearing it denigrated and having their threads hijacked by those who think it's not.

It gets attacked because:

1. Gun magazine writers don't like it--so it must be bad.

2. It replaced the 1911--and it's not even a J.M. Browning design. It could be gold plated, walk the dog on the days you don't want to, cure the common cold, shoot 1" groups @ 100 yards offhand, prevent cancer, give you three wishes and it would still be a piece of garbage to those who worship at the 1911 denomination of the church of J. M. Browning.

3. It's not chambered in .45ACP. See # 2 but replace '1911' with '.45ACP.'

4. Out of the box, it doesn't measure up to a custom $1500 1911.

I find it somewhat amusing that the typical comparison pits a bottom of the line Beretta 92 which retails for around $400 to the reviewers favorite custom 1911 which has more bells and whistles than a carnival and cost about 4 times more...

If you spend that much having a Beretta dolled up, you're very creative. There's just not that much that needs to be done to it.

As far as durability goes. Even if you get a trigger job done, you can still buy two or three B92s for what it costs to get a decent semicustom/custom 1911. Unless you can spend a ton of $$$ on ammo and spend half your life at the range, I think you'll be long gone before you wear out the second one...

[Handy]

In regards to a "lifetime" of shooting, this is a 50,000 round gun. That's 20 rounds a week, for 5 years.

[Sean Smith]

It isn't underrated. Compared to other full-size, DA/SA 9x19mm service pistols (not just Ed Browns... silly argument) it lags in many areas. It is excessively heavy and bulky for a full-size 9mm. See the BHP and CZ-75B, which weigh the same and have less bulk... with STEEL frames. Or the lighter AND less bulky SigSauer P226 or Glock 17. Sure, the locking block failures are somewhat overblown. But who the hell ever broke the bottom of a SigSauer P226 or Glock 17 barrel off? Even the silly swinging link on the 1911 has a better track record. And it has that lovely dirt siphon (aka open top slide) design that is perfect for dirty conditions. :rolleyes:

Did I mention the safety location stinks, or that the trigger reach is too long in DA? Given the average size of women's hands compared to men's, it may also be the most sexist weapon ever adopted by the U.S. military. And yes, this post is getting completely over the top. :evil:

Back on planet Earth :D, according to the people who own them, commercial Berettas are by and large good guns, with certain pros and cons like most other guns. The ones the Army gave me, on the other hand, were mostly horrid (though the first one I got issued worked great).

[roscoe]

Um, 50,000 rounds is 20 rounds a week for 50 years. Or, 200 rounds a week for 5 years.

[XavierBreath]

I was in the military when we transitioned to the B92. I bought my own when I got out in Oct. 1991.

There are two stories I frequently hear.

Story #1 The Jet Li fallacy. Seems none of it's adherents are so sure of themselves that they will allow a loaded B92 to be pointed at their chest while they disable it. A gunsmith I know is so sure of this bull**** that he believes a new slide release has been designed to compensate for it. Any moron knows that if a person gets his hand on your weapon it will be diverted from it's point of aim. Shoot the SOB before he grabs the pistol, Duhhhhhhh........

Story #2 The sand from the Saudi desert filled the pistol to where it was unusable in Desert Storm. Riiiiiight....... An open slide pistol will jam from sand. Never happened. There were, however, many pissed NCO's and O's in Desert Storm that had to carry a pistol that they were not familiar with, who would have prefered to have a jamamatic 1911 last oiled in 1972. These people would say anything derogatory about the Beretta they could think of. The same type of griper complained about the M-16, the M1 Abrams, and Kevlar helmets. Fact is, the B92 has performed flawlessly in service. Mine functioned with sand all over it, but I kinda prefered a carbine, you know? Seems in warfare a sidearm is a last ditch weapon. In a last ditch effort, give me 15 shots instead of seven. The same gunsmith I know loves this fallacy. Strangely, he never served in Desrt Storm, let alone any branch of the military, and he carries..............a 1911. Go figure.

Why is the B92 underated? I really don't think it is. I think that pistol fashion has changed. In 1990, the fashion was Combat pistols, all black, high capacity, etc. With the aftershock of the beloved 1911's replacement, no pistol could have survived derision, but the B92 has persevered, and as a full size service pistol in double action 9mm it is still one of the premier weapons. You cannot ask it to carry .45's any more than you can ask a 1911 to carry 15 rounds. It was not designed for concealed carry, so that should not even be an issue. It is one of the smoothest actions out there, equaled only by the P1/P38, which also has a locking block action. The slide safety/decocker can be a problem for those used to the 1911, but hey, 1911's are still made for those who cannot adjust. Slide decockers have never been a problem for me. I don't try to decock or safety the weapon while the slide is cycling, and my thumb hits it just fine in battery.

As far as underrated weapons, of all the ones I own, I think the Desert Eagle in .40 is the most underated. The Kahr would be next. The Beretta is only underrated by people obsessed with the 1911, Lethal Weapon movies, and Desert Storm rumors. It still does it's job well, and when you think about it, two well placed 9mm rounds beat one .45 everytime, so in a given magazine you have better stopping power.

My B92 remained my favorite handgun for years, until it finally lost it's place to a full size H&K. I tried the 1911 thing. Traded both of them off.

[DeltaElite]

I don't like the Beretta, because the grip is horrible and it is double action 9mm. ;)

I love my 1911's but the most reliable guns going are my Glocks.

I bought a Beretta right after the military adopted it, yah I jumped on the bandwagon.
I found out very quickly that it didn't fit my hand well at all and that the trigger was not very good. So I got rid of it.
I later began disliking the 9mm portion of the gun. :D

So my dislike of the Beretta has nothing to do with the "1911 fascination" it has to do with it being the wrong gun for me.
I don't buy the "locking block" and jam issues either.

If it fits you then go for it. We all have different preferences in guns.
I prefer Sigs, Glocks and 1911's. Not a bad trio if you ask me. :D

[JohnKSa]

With regards to a lifetime--I said if a person buys TWO Berettas he'd almost certainly never wear them both out in a lifetime of shooting.

So, using the 50,000 round lifetime proposed by others on this thread, that gives us 100,000 rounds between the two guns.

Let's say he goes to the range every week and runs through a couple of boxes a trip. That's 5,200 rounds a year. So, somewhere around year 19 after spending around $10,000.00 on ammunition his second Beretta is going to give up the ghost.

Right????












NO WAY! That's absolutely and ridiculously unrealistic!

That assumes that our hypothetical shooter has only these two pistols--no other guns of any kind to occupy his range time. Anyone who thinks this is likely is welcome to name one person who goes shooting once a week and has only two guns...

If you make a more reasonable assumption that he has just two more pistols that share range time, it's going to take him around 75 years to wear out his two Berettas.

Rental ranges wear out guns. Militaries wear out guns.

Individual owners virtually never wear out quality firearms. Their guns are sold, traded, bequeathed, blown up, stolen, given away, or destroyed through neglect or abuse.

[The Silver Bullet 1719]

As far as size goes, I'm not 100% sure so don't flame me if I'm wrong. As far as 9mms when the 92FS was being introduced there wasn't really any compact 9mms since the Wundernine phase had not swooped America, in fact I can't really think of any compact 9mms in the early 80s. Someone chime in if I'm wrong though.

[XavierBreath]

Yep, the "compact/conceal" fashion came about after the high cap magazine ban. There had to be something to market the newest pistols in light of the ban. Downsizing, allegedly for concealment was the trend, but truth be told, it was because manufacturers needed to estabish interest in new models with 10 round magazines.

[10-Ring]

I don't mind saying that I'm a fan of the 92's. I've got a 92 Centurion and a inox 92fs, both Italian & both wonderful performers.
I'd say more misunderstood rather than underated :D

[Skunkabilly]

I've got a 92 Centurion and a inox 92fs, both Italian & both wonderful performers.


OK mister I'm from Oakland and have an Inox Beretta but teases the Skunk for being a pimp!!!! :neener:

[makarov]

The most recent Shotgun News has an article about the P-38 showing its locking mechanism and shows a Helwan and Beretta 92f as evolutionary to the P-38. What I thought was interesting is that the barrel on the 92 doesn't tilt. It does slide back and forth, but stays in one plane. The locking device is recessed and pivots down as the barrel travels back. I have always had a fascination with fixed barrel designs. I think they have inherently better accuracy potential. The Berreta isn't fixed, but only having one plane of motion would be an advantage. The article said it was one reason they were easier to mount suppressors on.

Are there other guns that use this type of system? - I would be curious to know.

[WonderNine]

Not that it would be my first choice, but if we have to go with 9mm for NATO compatibility, why not a hi-cap 1911 in 9mm?

A.K.A. Browning Hi-Power.

[Scott13]

On the whole i don't find the 92fs is overated . I have found that they are Very reliable . Also imho about the nicest looking 9mm
around . I have never found the grip to be uncomfortable , i have
a feg p9R and that one to me has an uncomfortable grip. The only thing i will admit to not liking on the 92 is the trigger. But other than that i think it's a great gun .

[ojibweindian]

In my previous post I stated my dislike for the 92. It's not because I like the 1911 any better (I do), it's just that I do not like a pistol with a slide mounted saftey. The mag release button is way out of my reach and trigger pull is not any better than the P95 I just traded for a CZ-75.

I believe the 92 to be an accurate, reliable pistol. I just hate its ergonomics.

As an aside, the CZ-75 is, ergonomically, way better than the P95, the 92, the 1911, the PT92, or anything else I've had my grabbers on.

[igor]

I think the underrating thing is a 1911/M9 thing. Besides that, it is a matter of taste and/or ergonomics.

The last mentioned reason steered me towards the Taurus 99. When they made the decocker version, I switched to it. Both times I considered the Beretta and wound up wanting the usable safety catch (yes, I'm a bit a-retentive about safeties :rolleyes: ).

The Tauri have served me well and I have no doubt that Berettas would have as well, being altogether of much better quality both in material and workmanship than the Brazilian wonders. My next pistol will be a Walther P99QA, though. I seem unable to get comfortable with either the DA/SA transition or carrying the Taurus in Cond. 1... :(

[Dain Bramage]

1911 and Hi-Power barrels also only work in "one plane" of motion, that is the vertical plane bisecting the gun. A plane is a two-dimensional construct. P38/P1's and their ilk have barrels that move linearly, or in one dimension.

No flame intended, Makarov. I like the no-dimensional barrel movement of my Bulgarian Mak.

[Gewehr98]

That's a big chunk 'o gun for a leetle 10mm Lite. Or did you mean the Magnum Research Baby Eagle, based on the excellent CZ series of pistols? I know, it's hard to call a serious handgun a Baby anything, when Desert Eagle sounds so much more impressive. Unless, of course, you already own a full-sized Desert Eagle, then Baby Eagle is quite appropriate. ;)

Coming up fairly soon on my 20-year point and retirement from a military career, I've qualified and carried the M38, M9, and M1911A1, including such pleasant diversions as DESERT SHIELD and DESERT STORM. I qualify annually with the M9 Beretta, and while I do score quite well with it at the CATM range, it's only because I have to. It's all we're issued, so it has to work, period.

The Beretta 92/M9 reminds me of that old saying, "A camel is a horse that was designed by a committee." 9mm NATO ammunition was the standard. The new generation of soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines don't have the discipline to use a single action autoloader, so give us a DA/SA lockwork mechanism, and can you throw in a decocker? Thanks. Since it is a 9mm, you're gonna need more of those rounds compared to the previous .45 ACP, so fill 'er up. GI's are already used to a handgun the size of the 1911A1, so the new 9mm can use those dimensions, too! That way, you got a 9mm with 15 rounds available that can use the same UM84 holster as the 1911A1, another logistics problem solved! Hey, Pietro Beretta, if you promise to build these things here in the good 'ol U.S. of A., we'll make sure your design is given consideration for adoption, ok?

The fine, talcum-powder sand of Riyadh (when I was there) didn't raise so much heck with the open slide of the M9, as it did with the double-stack magazine system. The M9's magazine design, as the top narrows down to a single stack feed, requires the rounds to rotate as they move up to the feed lips. That wonderful fine sand slowed down that process considerably. I saw some M9's sealed up in ziploc bags as a result. I was incredulous at seeing a service weapon so protected, but shortly afterwards realized that the damned sand got EVERYWHERE, regardless of how well you thought you had things covered.

I've mastered the DA/SA transition as best I could, I carry the M9 when issued, just like I carried the M38 and M1911A1. My last 9mm private purchase was a Kahr K9, and I own 4 1911A1 variants. But the M9 or 92F series isn't on my purchase radar anytime soon. And as much as I dislike Glocks, I'd recommend one of them before I'd recommend a M9/92F to a prospective hicap 9mm buyer. After I recommended a Browning Hi-Power, of course.

[10-Ring]

I'm from Oakland and have an Inox Beretta but teases the Skunk for being a pimp!!!!

After being in witness protection, I've been de-pimpified :neener: So, SKUNK's a PIMP! :neener: SKUNK's a PIMP! :neener: SKUNK's a PIMP! :neener: SKUNK's a PIMP!

[Handy]

Oops, me math do bad.

I was only pointing out that the 92 has a life expectancy of less than half of many other guns, especially 9mms. I wouldn't get a Great Dane for the same reason.



In terms of the 92, or any other similar pistol's selection for the M9, the 92 has the RIGHT features for the job. The DA trigger, drop safeties and decocker make the M9 and M11 appropriate for carrying with a round in the chamber; essential for guard duties.

A 9mm 1911 or BHP would have been carried under the old doctrine - chamber empty. Cocked and locked was NEVER a standard military doctrine (we're not talking about Spec Ops).

The DA decocker pistol has allowed a great advance for the foot soldier that relies on a pistol. There may be better choices for the M9 than the Beretta, but feature wise it's right on the money.

[George Hill]

So how do you figure your "Life Expectancy" of the Beretta and your other guns?
Is the "Life" over when the locking block on the 92FS breaks and you have to replace it?
Or do you reset your "Life" counter when you replace your safety lever, beaver tail, and slide release on your 1911 one at a time or do you have to do them all at once?
I could go on and on, and into details... but I think you get the point. At what point does the "life expectancy" end? If the barrel gets shot out... I can just order another one and PRESTO - I have a fresh barrel and all the sudden my accuracy is back to normal if not better than before. I can have a smith replace the safety block and levers... have it refinished. New triggers, extractors, ejectors, mag releases... I can replace any part that needs replacing.
I know cats that do this to the 1911 after jsut a box of ammo. Does this mean the 1911 is a 50 round gun?
This milage measurement doesn't take into account the guns actual useage and environment and type of loads fired. It doesn't take into account the owner/user's gun-hygiene, frequency of cleaning and lubing, type of cleaners/lube used, or method of storage or fit/finish/materials of holster... Way too many factors that will effect the service life of a weapon.
"Life Expectancy" is completely moot. No matter how good or bad your math was.

Besides, lets be honest. ALL of us here will probably move on to another handgun after 5 years or less anyway... the gun of todays topic will be either sold off or sitting in a gunsafe well oilled and just waiting for another trip to the range.

[bountyhunter]

I don't know who the questions are directed to, but I can answer some of them:

"So how do you figure your "Life Expectancy" of the Beretta and your other guns?"

That criteria is defined by the user. Most people think it is the point where an item can not be repaired safely or the expense of repair exceeds the worth of the item.

"Is the "Life" over when the locking block on the 92FS breaks and you have to replace it?"

NO. That is a two minute fix which can be done by anyone who can take the slide off their gun.

"Or do you reset your "Life" counter when you replace your safety lever, beaver tail, and slide release on your 1911 one at a time or do you have to do them all at once? "

The "life counter" starts at zero and keeps counting throughout the service life of the product. Repairs or maintenance do not stop it.

"At what point does the "life expectancy" end?"

When the item no longer gives service and repair is impossible or too expensive to be justified.

"Does this mean the 1911 is a 50 round gun?"

NO. I have never heard anybody claim that.

"This milage measurement doesn't take into account the guns actual useage and environment and type of loads fired. It doesn't take into account the owner/user's gun-hygiene, frequency of cleaning and lubing, type of cleaners/lube used, or method of storage or fit/finish/materials of holster... Way too many factors that will effect the service life of a weapon. "

For service weapon like the M9, the expected operating environments, humidity levels, and temp ranges are well defined and spelled out in various mil standard specs (I used to have to design to MIL-STD 810D). The item must perform satisfactorily accounting for all factors encountered in field usage.

""Life Expectancy" is completely moot. No matter how good or bad your math was."

For a service pistol, that statement could not be farther from the truth. Expected operating life is critical as is operational reliability.

"ALL of us here will probably move on to another handgun after 5 years or less anyway... "

Not me, I just keep on accumulating. I never sell a gun unless it's a dog and won't shoot straight.

[bountyhunter]

On the subject of life span: my wife is in the Navy and quals the M9 every so often. You will find range guns with well over 100,000 rounds still firing accurately with the originl barrel and slide.

[clange]

I really like my 92, never shot a 1911 though. :eek: I actually like how the safety is set up. In my hand its the perfect location for a simple flip forward. Putting it on safe (the way most of you say the way it should go off safe) takes a bit more work. The grip size is perfect for me. Thing looks beautiful too. My only complaint of it would be its bigger then it needs to be overall, but its not exactly designed to be a CCW is it.

I'm not a certified gun nut but it works for me.

[Handy]

Beretta states the FRAME is good for 50,000 rounds. You can't repair a cracked alloy frame.

[Boats]

Beretta states the FRAME is good for 50,000 rounds. You can't repair a cracked alloy frame.

There should be an "at least" in there ahead of that number. YMMV, and many of these pistols are documented as going way past 50,000 rounds. It is a 9mm after all and not a lightweight Colt Officer's Model.

Nor has there been an epidemic, even on the internet, of horror stories about broken Beretta 92 frames.

[XavierBreath]

Regarding the Desert/Baby Eagle in .40S&W................
It's the pistol put out by Israeli Military Industries, ModelbMR9400.
On the slide it says Desert Eagle. On the instruction book printed by Magnum Research it says Baby Eagle, probably to differentiate it from their Desert Eagle in the big calibers. Not sure about that, but it seems to be the case. Looking at the IMI site http://www.imi-israel.com/ it appears to the the 941F also known as a Jericho.

Whether Baby Eagle, Desert Eagle or Jericho, it's a fine sidearm, and doesn't seem to get the credit it deserves, probably because of the Baby designation.

[Croyance]

So, S.B. 1719, the replies here are consistant with what I have seen on TFL. Some who don't like the Beretta 92 and more who have positive responses. So where is the under-rated part?

[Silver Bullet]

It's got my highest rating: it's the pistol by my bedside.

It's the most reliable gun I know of: never jams or fails to feed.

Very durable (not the most durable; that distinction probably belongs to some (or every !) Glock).

Everything about it is butter-smooth. When I rack the slide on any other pistol, I always wonder what's wrong with it.

Good accuracy, and high capacity (there's a plus side to the big grip).

One of only two pistols to pass the military tests back in the '80s.

I feel the decocker/safety make it a very safe gun, in the sense that you're less likely to have a negligent discharge because you have to do more things wrong to go bang.

[Wilhelm]

I have owned 2 Glocks and hated both of them. I have owned at least 4 different 1911's their ok. I absolutley love my 92FS. I have small hands but have no problem getting to the mag release. The only problem I have had was once I decocked it and forgot to take the safetey off. It took only once for that to happen in a competition for that mistake to never happen again and I think the gun only had 200rds through it at the time. The 92FS is the gun for me, I love everything about it and have never looked back since my purchase. Guns are like cars no one gun is every gonna be the ends all be all.



Wilhelm

[Erik]

The Beretta 92fs is a fine 9mm pistol, which after you factor in BOTH the over and under rating comes out about where it should be: on most folks list of top 10 list of service pistols currently available.

Now, should it or should it be on top of said list? That's a whole 'nuther argument, of course.

Anyway, I like them, but don;t love them, mainly because of the ergonomics due in no small part to the relatively large grip size.

DA/SA? Big deal, though not my preference.

Frame mounted saety/decocker? Bigger deal, but that's a preference thing.

Open top? I could care less.

Double stack mags? I could care even less than less.

Fixed front sight? Fixed recently, I believe. Or, fixable, if not.

9mm? So what? Though I prefer my pistols chambered for cartridges which begin with '4.'

Full sized? Hefted a full size HK USP. beloved by so many, lately? Talk about relatively large for no apparent reason. Anyway, another "so what comment."

Anyway... Their fine service pistols with relatively large grips, which I believe I said a while ago, so I'll stop at that.

[Navy joe]

Let's see,

1. It's bigger than a Hi-power
2. Trigger is suckier than a Hi-power
3. Hmmm, It's not a Hi-power??? ;)

Having several BHPs and an excellent Glock 34 I can't justify the need for a 92.

Silly safety, brickonomics, DA, too many parts.

Since nobody has said it, the maintenance requirements for military M-9s specify a magnetic particle inspection of the locking block on a 4,000 round interval. Since I don't usually have access to a mag bench, I'd rather not deal with that.

Other observations come from the local range. At the mecca of gun mistreatment(rental counter) I have never seen all six of their rental Berettas ready to go at once, one is always TU. The S&W revolvers, glocks and Colt AR are constantly ready for more abuse and little cleaning, all the malfunctions I see come from error on the part of the renter.

[George Hill]

I've not heard of one documented case of a 92F or FS that has suffered from a break in the frame.

Yet I have personally seen several (including my own) SIG P220 handguns with cracks in the frames. These cracks showed up between 50 to 60,000 rounds.
Does this mean a SIG is only a 50,000 round gun too?
You NEVER hear people badmouthing SIGs because of this.
I think this life expectancy issue is moot, retarded, and totally lame.

:fire:

[Handy]

George, this is a thread about the + and - of the Beretta. Most everyone agrees that it's a good enough gun, so we are only really talking fine distinctions. Frame life is a fine distinction, but a distinction.

And yes, I question the long term strength of EVEN the Sig. But all the SEALs I knew in Norfolk reported their 226s lasting well into the 100,000s with NATO ammo. But alloy frames are a trade off. I have mostly steel.

If you think it is unfit to post opinions in an opinion thread, that's weird. We could all just refuse to discuss any possible negatives on any well established weapon, since they are always relatively minor. Or we could just read and take the various minutia for what they are, instead of denouncing them.

I'm sure your personal, and VERY special Beretta will last as long as you want.

[CAP]

I've got a ss 92FS and a 475th anniversary Comemorative M9 NIB, and STILL want a compact ss version for daily wear. Elite? Brigadier?
I LOVE mine.

But then again I love my P228 and my G26 too. :D

[Glockster35]

I have seen several 92FS (military) with cracked frames. In one inspection we found 17 out of 42 guns had cracks.

Beretta's aren't immune to it.

[Island Beretta]

Hey Guys:

Keep it simple..

Superceded only by the High Power which has been around since 1935, the 92FS is the most widely issued military pistol of today. It has beaten SIG in every trial worldwide!! It has several clones that are also military issue.. In addition it is the handgun of choice for special forces worldwide..

If you do not believe me do your homework.

Now that these guys have done all the hard work for you and I.. the debate is redundant!! Shoot the 92fs and have fun..

CURRENTLY THE 92FS IS THE KING OF THE HILL.. MAYBE IN A FEW YEARS IT MAY BE DETHRONED BUT IT IS ONE HECK OF A PISTOL:cool:


Oh, by the way, did you know the US AMU have accurized M9s shooting sub-1 inch groups (0.8 inch to be exact) at 50 yds. They were never able to surpass that with any accurised 1911s.



:neener:

[Handy]

You should check into what the AMU did to get the gun to shoot like that. They could have built a gun from scratch with that much labor.

[Dave Markowitz]

In my OPINION, the M9 is a good but not great gun.

--It's generally quite reliable.
--It's accurate enough for service use, and can be made more so.
--Because it's the current US military sidearm, and is used by many PDs, standard cap mags are easily available at reasonable (for 2003) prices.
--Due to its size and weight for a gun in 9mmP, it's easy to shoot if your hands can get around the grips.
--Speaking of which, it's really large for a 9mmP handgun, even one developed before the fad for compact 9s.
--Due to its size and the placement of the controls on the slide, ergonomics suck.

However, if I had to carry a 9mmP handgun to war, I'd prefer my Browning High Power Practical, with a SIG P228 (AKA the M-11) as my second choice.

YMMV, of course.

[eviltravis]

I have a 92fs centurion (full frame, shorter slide and barrel). I love the thing. It fills my hand just right. I actually like the grip size better than my Glocks, and my p99 walther. I have about 5 or 6 thousand rounds through the thing with no problems. I think it's a swell gun. I'd kind of like to get a stainless one someday, but then there are a lot of other things I have to get first. The Beretta gets my vote.

[dsk]

There's not much I can add that hasn't already been said. However, I think a large part of the passing Beretta 92 fad has been the mag-cap ban. Who wants such a large, fat gun with only ten rounds of 9mm? As a 15-shot 9mm pistol the Beretta is a decent, though not spectacular handgun. Once neutered it's about as state-of-the-art as a Tokarev. In other words it'll still kill a bad guy, but there are now that many more pistols out there that are more ergonomic, size-efficient, durable, and powerful.

I'd say the 92 Elite is about the only version that's still market-competitive. For just about anything else that can be done with a 9mm, give me a Glock 19, Hi-Power, or smaller SIG.

[Island Beretta]

Handy,

Given all that I said is this the only thing you could refute?.. why refute, why not just accept the truth.

Let me repeat, The Beretta 92FS is the most widely issued military pistol since the BHP and has beaten Sig in every military trial worldwide. It is the handgun of choice for Special Forces worldwide. As I said all the hard work has been done for us and that includes importantly debugging the gun, chief of which is the locking block redesign and the enlarged slide stop. Glock and Sig are still being debugged..

Berettas are designed to go straight from the factory to the battlefield without cleaning or any armorer tuning and function reliably in the heat of battle. Few if any handguns can boast that. Their quality assurance program is unsurpassed.

I am familiar with what was done to increase the accuracy potential of the M9..Are you????

In any case it was a lot less work than needed on the 1911s mostly in fact because no reliability work was needed for the M9. For the M9, the focus was on stabilising the barrel lockup.

[Handy]

Island,

What's the problem? Your comments about the widespread use of the design could have been quoted from me last week:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7203

I think it is a good, reliable, huge and not particularly durable gun design. In essence, I don't have any strong feeling about it. Read my first post in this thread.

I am somewhat aware of the AMUs work, and I believe it involved milling and replacing a large bit of the M9 frame with custom made steel parts. "Stablizing the lockup." The M9 only locks at the back of the barrel (the front of the slide is only there for the recoil spring. That's why the P-38 looks different.) So "ultimate" accuracy is a little more challenging than with a 1911 where the barrel is wedged front and back. The Beretta locking block doesn't even settle until the round is fired and the barrel is pulled forward.

I believe the only thing I had to say negatively about the 92 was that the design wasn't built to last and that it was too big. All these points were also made and supported by other posters. Find another scapegoat.

Why is the 92 only chambered in 9 and .40 but the 8000 series goes to .45? Couldn't they make a locking block gun in .45, or did the recoil kill all the prototypes.

Personally, I think anything but delayed blowback is kind of crude, but I have some recoil guns anyway.

[George Hill]

Notice that Taurus takes the same design as the 92FS, and does chamber it in .45acp. Also notice that Taurus doesn't market a Couger... but Beretta does. If you want a .45 from Beretta, Beretta wants you to buy the Couger.
It's about the math, not about the machine.

[Handy]

George, you know not what you say. The Taurus .45(s) is a modified Browning lock.

NO ONE makes a .45 with a locking block.



But thanks for the input.

[Big Mike]

Well, my CCW is a 92 Brigadier. Just fine for me...Mike

[Handy]

Island,

Did I answer your criticisms?

George,

Did you locate your .45?


Come on, haven't heard from you guys all weekend!

[M1911]

Full sized? Hefted a full size HK USP. beloved by so many, lately? Talk about relatively large for no apparent reason.Yup. Everytime I look at the slides on my two HK USPcs, I'm amazed by just how pointlessly huge they are.

[Handy]

You know, the full size USP is MASSIVE for a 9mm. But it is:

.05" shorter than the Beretta 92

.24" narrower than the Beretta 92

8 oz. lighter than the Beretta 92



Are you sure you want to negatively compare the size of the USP to the Beretta?

[Boats]

The Beretta 8045 is a type of locking block design. It certainly is not a modified Browning.

[Handy]

No, it's not.

No one said the 8045 is a Browning lock, either.

Its recoil operated and locked by a rotating barrel. Same as the M2.

[Boats]

Well I need some further education then.:p

From the Beretta Cougar manual available online at beretta.it:

"The Cougar series pistols employ a short recoil locked breech system, simple and practical, based on the secure lock of the slide to the barrel. The barrel locking and unlocking rotation is caused by its axial movement through the double cam acting on the central block tooth."

So there is a block of some sort that provides the breech lock. Perhaps it is not a classical "oscillating wedge," but it is still a locking block of a type, isn't it?:scrutiny:

[Handy]

Nope.

The "double cam" is probably the two projections that radiate from the barrel. One is wedged into a recess in the slide, the other is cammed into a groove in the locking area of the frame. As the slide and barrel recoil, the "central block tooth" angles against the lower barrel projection and rotates the barrel. Once the barrel has rotated far enough the other projection clears its slide recess and the slide can continue on it's own.

This system is simpler than the wedge system but retains the same straight line feeding. It is essentially a similar principle to the Browning system, but uses rotation rather than tilt. It doesn't seem to be as accurate as either, at least in the Berettas, and requires good lubrication (the M2 does, anyway).

This is similar looking, but completely different than the MAB rotating barrel.

[M1911]

Are you sure you want to negatively compare the size of the USP to the Beretta?Who said I was comparing it to the size of the Beretta? I was comparing it to the size of my Kimber Compact and Kahr K40.

[Handy]

Actually, I thought you might be kidding.

I was responding to the post you quoted, by Erik.

[M1911]

Actually, I thought you might be kidding.Nope, I'm not. The slide of the HK USPc in .40 and .45 is very large and blocky when compared to 1911s, Kahrs, etc.

[Rickstir]

"Baby" was my first 9mm. Bought new the 92FS has been flawless in about 3000 rounds. Hi cap mags are a benefit. Mine is stock in the trigger set up. Seems okay to me. I do have big hands and it fits like a glove. I use it for HD and open carry here in Missouri.

If we get CCW I may have to switch to a smaller gun.

I like mine and am glad I have it.

[Robby from Long Island]

Bought my first handgun 12 years ago after researching many articles and visiting several gun shops. Found the 92FS to be the perfect fit for my hands and to this day haven't found a gun that I like better.

Since that original purchase have acquired many additional handguns from .22LR to .454 Casull and everything in between, but the gun that still defends my home is my 92FS. After many thousands of rounds, can honestly say it never once failed to feed or eject properly regardless of the ammo.

There has always been the detractors who rant and rave about problems with slide failures and locking blocks, but most of them are relating hearsay from people relating hearsay.

I've never none one person who had a problem with their 92.

Some of the stories you hear remind me of one I heard on one of the gun forums the other day. The guy was telling someone never to buy a Benelli shotgun as when they are fired the barrels fly off the gun, and he has seen it happen to several Benelli's.........RIGHT.

Safe shooting.