Autoloaders without magazine disconnect


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Slick Pilot
September 25, 2013, 12:52 PM
I do not like those that will not fire without the magazine.

Is there a quick reference for those autoloaders that will work without the magazine inserted? And which are the ones that are easily modified to operate without the magazine?

Thanks.

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CoRoMo
September 25, 2013, 01:00 PM
I don't know about any quick reference list of pistols that lack mag safeties, but the ones I've removed were a piece of cake.

Pick a handgun first, then look into what it takes to undo the lawyer designs.

MCgunner
September 25, 2013, 01:00 PM
A reference? Not sure. I do hate Ruger's progression to magazine disconnects, though. My SR22 has one, but it's not a self defense gun, so no real matter. I prefer my P90 to the P345 for sure and this is part of the reason. My Mk2 doesn't have one, the Mk 3 does, but again, these aren't self defense firearms. But, a mag disconnect is just undesirable, period. I'm okay with a .22 having one, though. It's a gun I'm counting on to defend myself with that I won't have one on. It's just something else to go wrong when you don't need complications.

jmr40
September 25, 2013, 01:36 PM
A list of what has them would be a lot shorter.

Browning HP
Most older S&W semi's
The newer Smith M&P semi can be had with or without.
Ruger P354.

That is all that I can think of off hand. I'm sure I probably missed something but others will chime in with additions.

JTQ
September 25, 2013, 01:44 PM
jmr40 is probably correct, it is easier to list those with than without.

Add the Ruger SR series to the list.

Inebriated
September 25, 2013, 01:45 PM
jmr has the right idea... listing the ones with one is a lot easier than listing the ones without. Off the top of my head, some Bersas, Ruger MKIII's, and Ruger LC9's have magazine disconnects.

I really do hate lawyer features.

CoRoMo
September 25, 2013, 01:52 PM
I shoot steel challenge with a Ruger Mk III. Before I ever fired that pistol, it was modified because I'm not going to fiddle with a magazine that's dragging against the disconnect safety and won't drop free when I want it to. It runs like a trip-hammer too; this modification doesn't do anything other than make it into what it was supposed to be in the first place.

Fishbed77
September 25, 2013, 02:03 PM
I shoot steel challenge with a Ruger Mk III. Before I ever fired that pistol, it was modified because I'm not going to fiddle with a magazine that's dragging against the disconnect safety and won't drop free when I want it to.

Indeed. The mag disconnect of the Ruger Mark III is easy to remove if you get a hammer bushing from Sam Lam, etc for about $10 or so. Frankly, it's a modification that all Mark III owners should do. In addition to getting rid of the mag disconnect, it improves the trigger feel, makes mags drop more freely, and drastically simplifies field stripping and reassembly.

Slick Pilot
September 25, 2013, 02:04 PM
Appreciate the quick response!!!

Blue Brick
September 25, 2013, 02:15 PM
Hi Point has it, but it can be removed easily by removing the grips. All Ruger pistols after the P97 have it, but it can be removed.

Willie Sutton
September 25, 2013, 02:21 PM
Browning HP can be modified to remove the feature by simply removing one small part. Makes the mags drop freely as well.

It's hardly a lawyer-feature on the HP: The pistol was released for general sale in 1935.


Willie

.

Carl N. Brown
September 25, 2013, 02:45 PM
I don't like magazine disconnect safety.

I don't like a magazine safety for a field gun because I do worry about being stranded overnight on the mountain and would like the comfort of a singleshot pistol should I lose the magazine in the tall grass.

I don't like a magazine safety for a home defense gun because it encourages one to be lax about clearing the chamber after removing the magazine.

I have heard stories of cops/defenders in a struggle over possession of a gun with mag safety managing to drop the mag before the bad guy gets full control of the gun, but that sounds far fetched for my purposes.

Incredibly the Raven MP25 that was gifted to me does have a magazine safety. With the magazine out, the disconnector does not engage the sear. Not all Raven .25s have that feature so I don't think the makers advertise it. The booklet with the gun advises remove the magazine (clip) and check the chamber end of the barrel, never leave a round in the barrel of the gun.

beatledog7
September 25, 2013, 04:51 PM
Add to the list with a disconnect: Browning BDA.

tuj
September 25, 2013, 05:35 PM
add to list with mag disconnect: S&W 59XX pistols.

Now, I have removed the magazine disconnect on my Ruger MKIII because it is a target pistol, but I have a 5906 for SD purposes and I have retained the disconnect. I was told that one reason for the disconnect, aside from safety, is that if someone tries to take your gun from you, you have the option of ejecting the magazine, rendering the gun inoperable. This could be a very a good thing in certain situations, particularly police/security who open carry and are potential targets for this. (Yes there are retention holsters...) I personally am ok with a mag disconnect on a SD pistol and can't see why you'd be so adverse to some very good pistols that have them. Are you afraid of accidentally ejecting the mag?

I'll bet there are a lot of ND's that are prevented during cleaning because of mag disconnect safeties; some people will always be stupid and forget to check the chamber.

ritepath
September 25, 2013, 07:01 PM
It take about 2 minutes to remove the mag disconnect from a centerfire Ruger SR. I haven't gotten around to removing my SR22's yet but that's probably going to change shortly, we just haven't shot it much this year so it sits in the safe.

MedWheeler
September 26, 2013, 10:09 PM
My Ruger P95 does not. Neither do either of my carry Kel-Tecs.

My Bersa Thunder 380 does have one.

There are pros and cons to either setup. A counter to the idea that ejecting the magazine from a gun someone is trying to take from you to make it inoperable also exists. If such an attempt is taking place, but the suspect manages to release the magazine in the struggle, you would still have one shot at him. In most jurisdictions (all, if you're in law enforcement), a criminal disarm attempt is construed as "being in fear of death or grievous bodily injury."

I never did make up my mind which way I'd prefer my carry (or duty, were I still on the job) be, but I do lean to preferring a gun without it. Even if a BG gets my gun and I eject the mag, he does only get one shot at me with it (I'll just have to make sure that shot doesn't count!)

Now, if you really want to get frustrated with the whole passive-safety issue, pick up a Phoenix HP22A. Here are some of its 64 built-in safeties:

1) Magazine disconnect (pistol will not fire with no magazine in place.)
2) Mag-out chamber-lock (slide cannot be retracted with no magazine in place.)
3) Safety-off mag-lock (Magazine cannot be removed if frame-mounted safety is off.)
4) Safe-on chamber-lock (slide cannot be retracted with frame-mounted safety on.)
5) Two manual safeties that work in opposing directions (upper safety goes up to fire, while lower safety goes down to fire.)

As an example, I'll give you unloading instructions for the Kel-Tec P32, similar in size, and for the HP22A

To unload the P32, perform the following steps:

1) Press magazine release and remove magazine as it is partially ejected from gun.
2) Retract the slide briskly to eject any chambered round.

Now, to unload the HP22A:

1) Place the lower (frame-mounted) safety in the SAFE position.
2) Press the magazine release with one hand, and use the other to pluck the magazine free (it does not eject freely.)
3) Unload the magazine.
4) Insert the now-empty magazine back into the pistol
5) Place the upper (slide-mounted) safety in its SAFE position.
6) Place the lower (frame-mounted) safety in the FIRE position.
7) Briskly retract the slide to eject any chambered round.
8) Place the lower (frame-mounted) safety in the SAFE position.
9) Repeat step two to remove the magazine (again.)

armsmaster270
September 28, 2013, 12:33 PM
S&W 6906 has it too.

herrwalther
September 29, 2013, 06:18 AM
Magazine disconnects are relatively uncommon in semi-automatic pistols. The only firearm I own that has one is a Bersa Thunder. My SR9c does not have one but I understand that newer models do.

Potatohead
September 29, 2013, 04:15 PM
I have heard stories of cops/defenders in a struggle over possession of a gun with mag safety managing to drop the mag before the bad guy gets full control of the gun, but that sounds far fetched for my purposes.

Since I carry an sr9, ive always wondered how likely this is also. Seems if I'm in position to be able to hit the mag release to drop the mag, I would most likely also be in position to hang on to my firearm. I mean if I have enough control over it to hit the release, I would think I have enough control over it to just shoot the BG more than likely. Dont know if that came out right.

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