Why the hype about the XDs?


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TarDevil
September 27, 2013, 11:40 AM
So, after a few years of gaining experience and technique, I'm thinking I'm ready to "lighten up" my carry piece. I'm leaning heavily toward a single stack .45 acp, specifically the Kahr CW45.

My question is, why was the XDs so hyped when it came out in 2012 (Finally, what the shooting world has been clamoring for, etc)? The Kahr seems to fill the same niche, pretty much same size, and preceded the XDs by several years (at least the P series... the CW came out in, what, 2008?)

Am I missing something? Is there something extraordinarily different about the Springfield that garnered it such enthusiasm?

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GP Henry
September 27, 2013, 11:48 AM
Price and Marketing?

gunsablazin
September 27, 2013, 11:49 AM
Not really, the XD was considered an improvement over the ergonomics, or lack thereof of the Glock. The XD is a good, solidly well made service pistol, and is a fine choice for concealed carry, IDPA etc. , but if you like the Kahr better, then go for it, nothing wrong with that either. There are so many really good pistols to choose from these days it seems you have to go out of your way to make a bad choice, I'm a luddite, and still think 1911's rule....

TarDevil
September 27, 2013, 11:53 AM
Not really, the XD was considered an improvement over the ergonomics, or lack thereof of the Glock.

I knew it was merely a matter of time before Glocks entered the picture! :D

What you say is true, but same can be said of the Kahrs. Hence my question about the "groundbreaking" introduction of the XDs.

tipoc
September 27, 2013, 01:16 PM
My question is, why was the XDs so hyped when it came out in 2012 (Finally, what the shooting world has been clamoring for, etc)? The Kahr seems to fill the same niche, pretty much same size, and preceded the XDs by several years (at least the P series... the CW came out in, what, 2008?)[/QUOTE

The XD-s is the latest version of the gun recently introduced. It is a single stack 9mm which comes on the heels of the 45acp version. There is a demand for single stack poly guns.

[QUOTE]In January 2012, Springfield announced a new variant, to be marketed as the XD-S. While it shares many features with the original XD and XDM, its specifications differ in several important ways. The XD-S has a new Pre-Set trigger and a disassembly fail-safe, neither of which are currently incorporated into the XD or XD-M models. The Fail-Safe Disassembly prevents the disassembly lever from being manipulated when there is a magazine in the pistol. Conversely, when the disassembly lever is up, a magazine cannot be inserted into the pistol. This model, at only 1 in (25 mm) wide and initially available only in .45 ACP, is specifically designed for concealed carry.[10] The XD-S .45 ACP has a single stack magazine with a 5 + 1 capacity (with an optional 7 + 1 magazine available) and a 3.3 in (84 mm) barrel.

In January 2013, Springfield unveiled the XD-S in 9mm. It is identical to the .45 ACP model in size and features. The only differences being that XD-S 9mm has a single stack magazine with a 7 + 1 capacity (with an optional 9 + 1 magazine available) and the 9mm is marginally heavier due to a smaller (9mm) hole in the barrel (more metal is left behind).

So pretty much it is another entry into the single stack polymer framed guns pile. Which has some good features in it's own right. There has been a demand for single stack poly guns for CCW over the last few years. Kahr has it's versions.

tipoc

wally
September 27, 2013, 05:43 PM
I think the main reason for the hype was the XDs and the Shield were single stack guns with the same triggers as their larger brethren, whereas while the Kahr are smaller, lighter, and had been on the market a good while longer; they have a trigger more akin to a double action revolver than a striker fired autoloader.

ForumSurfer
September 27, 2013, 05:49 PM
Having owned both a kahr and an xds...and still owning an XDs, the Kahr isn't something that I'd compare to a kahr.

The trigger is a huge difference. The kahr feels and behaves like a DAO revolver. Light but long with no shortened reset. You need to let the trigger all the way back out after each shot. The XDs trigger feels similar to a glock, m&p or xd. It is short with a crisp, short reset.

Basically, if you like DAO revolvers, the kahr will be awesome for you.
If you shoot plastic fantastic wonder 9's, the xds will appeal to you.

Honestly though, I'd rather have an officer's 1911. :)

JDGray
September 27, 2013, 05:54 PM
The XDs is a top heavy unbalanced gun just like my old Sig 239....
I'd go Kahr any day, over an XDs!

Tcruse
September 27, 2013, 06:34 PM
Is there not a re-call of the XDs for multi-fire and slam fire problems?

http://www.springfieldrecall.com/

460Kodiak
September 27, 2013, 07:41 PM
I've never shot a Kahr so I can't really comment or compare the two. But for me, the XDs is the only compact or semi compact gun I've ever held that filled all of the following criteria.

Is thin and easily carried
Is chambered for a powerful cartridge
Most importantly, it fits the hand of a larger person quite well.

There are lots of little semis out there that would be easy to carry and shoot, but the XDs just suited me.

I've handled the CW45, and the trigger reach just wasn't quite right for me. The XDs is controlable. I was pleased to find out that the XDs is a pleasure to shoot as well. I'm not saying the CW45 isn't. The XDs is also a hair smaller than the CW.

I suspect their marketing paid off as well. Turns out though they are great guns, minus the recal of course.

I'm patiently waiting.......

danweasel
September 27, 2013, 07:50 PM
Cause it ain't hype! I had a CW Kahr, a .40...

No bueno.

-Dan

powder
September 27, 2013, 09:32 PM
I have no idea, but you can count on this: the online forums are loaded with marketing specialists from the factories and special interest groups. Turned me off that they put "USA" on the slide, which is THEIR acronym for some system, instead of it being built here?

Bought my G36 some years ago, used, with a bunch of extras for $500. Built in Georgia, not sure what the differences are in ergos, but it's my main ccw...

420Stainless
September 27, 2013, 09:54 PM
It is a nice looking, nice size gun. I looked at one, but the shorter grip is offset by a longer length than my PM45. If I didn't have the PM I would have grabbed the XD. However, like a poster above said, if you don't happen to like the Kahr trigger (I do - very much) then the XDs may be a reason to celebrate.

TarDevil
September 28, 2013, 02:09 AM
The Kahr trigger is a big selling point for me... smooth, long D/A type, which is what I want in a gun W/O trigger safety.

Vodoun da Vinci
September 28, 2013, 09:23 AM
In America (and a lot of other places now....) hype is King. People love to be wowed and believe that there is a "Holy Grail" or a one size fits all so they buy into the hype if done cleverly.

In the case of the XD-S I didn't wanna like them 'cause I just really didn't care for polymer pistols. Then I shot one of my Gun Buddy's XD-S in .45 and despite the fact that it punished my hand seriously I was strangely attracted and hit like a champ with it at 21'. It's concealable, powerful, reliable and the price is right...I was impressed enough to rent an XD-S in 9mm at the range and then started shopping for one.

The recall took the wind out of my sales (no pun intended) and I shot a Glock 26 that a Dude at the range bought to keep the jitters away while his XD-S was being modified in the recall. Unfortunately I like the G26 just as well as the XD-S and maybe a little better due to the increased mag capacity. So, now I'm a G26 fan.

But I wouldn't kick an XD-S in 9mm or .45 out of bed unless it would be for a G26. All different sized people with all kinds of circumstances and all kinds of carry/use options and hand sizes and recoil tolerance and experience and range time/skill level.

The XD-S fits the bill for at least some of them.

VooDoo

herkyguy
September 28, 2013, 09:26 AM
Recall aside, the XDs is a good shooting, well-built, single stack 45 that I can conceal OWB under a t-shirt. I never had a problem with mine, except for a few misfires early on. I found that a bit of oil on the slide after cleaning kept it running.

I'll admit that I am a huge fan of the XD grip safety, but that's just me. It's a main reason I picked up an XDs when they first came out.

all that being said, it did, for whatever reason, get a ton of hype that was probably a bit more than it deserved. still, it's a good gun.

AirForceShooter
September 28, 2013, 10:02 AM
Just shoot an Xds. They're ergonomic and soft to shoot.
I'm in the market for one but the recall is screwing everything up.

AFS

Mousegun
September 28, 2013, 10:36 AM
The XDS 45 is a very accurate small gun. I can easily keep 10 shots within a 4 inch circle at 20 or more yards. The trigger is quite good for a factory gun and it can be made better if you are a bit mechanically inclined.

There is a voluntary recall at this time for potential slam fires when the slide is released. Thousands of rounds through mine did not show this problem and I am waiting for the smoke to clear at Springfield before sending it in.

jack44
September 28, 2013, 10:42 AM
I like my xd40 a lot better the the glock19.

JERRY
September 28, 2013, 11:13 AM
it was kinda glockish in mechanics but kinda kahrish in size. quality control suffered to get the guns to market as weve seen with the 200,000 gun recall because of the trigger "safety"

meef
September 28, 2013, 01:19 PM
"Just shoot an Xds. They're ergonomic and soft to shoot."

Uh... no, they're not.

Soft to shoot, that is.

I'm not recoil shy or sensitive by any means. But there is simply no getting around the fact that with a warm 230 grain cartridge in the tube, the XDs is much less than pleasant to run a magazine full through.

Nevertheless, the Xds remains my EDC piece.

But it ain't "soft" to shoot by any stretch of the imagination. Unless maybe you're someone along the size of somebody like Brock Lesnar or the like.

My $0.02.

Sol
September 28, 2013, 02:01 PM
Hype? It's slightly cheaper than a glock there's the hype.

burk
September 28, 2013, 09:29 PM
Well the reality is Springfield DOES NOT HAVE A FIX for the problems with the XD-S. Here is their update today:


We originally estimated a 30-day turn-around time, but it has unfortunately taken longer to develop and identify an upgrade solution. Please know that we are continuing to test potential upgrade solutions at this time and we have been doing so since we became aware of this issue. This testing is nearing completion and we will post any new updates as soon as we have identified a final upgrade solution. We will post our next update no later than Friday, October 4, and we will communicate immediately if a final solution is identified prior to that date. We wish that we could provide you with a specific return date at this time, but we are unfortunately unable to do so. Upgrades will be completed on a "first come / first served" basis.

www.springfieldrecall.com/Recall FAQ.asp

GBExpat
September 28, 2013, 09:42 PM
Just shoot an Xds. They're ergonomic and soft to shoot.

I found my XDs45 to be very comfortable and much less snappy than I expected ... surprisingly so. The extra weight helps that.

Actually, my Kel-Tec PF9, my primary CC piece since 2007, is a bit snappier and harder to control than my XDs.

1006
September 29, 2013, 01:37 AM
I don't get it either. A plastic gun, not even built in the USA. Oh boy, I gots to have one. :)

Mot45acp
September 29, 2013, 01:45 AM
Its a Walther PPS with a grip safety.

rhinoh
September 29, 2013, 10:52 PM
"Just shoot an Xds. They're ergonomic and soft to shoot."

Uh... no, they're not.

Soft to shoot, that is.

I'm not recoil shy or sensitive by any means. But there is simply no getting around the fact that with a warm 230 grain cartridge in the tube, the XDs is much less than pleasant to run a magazine full through.

Nevertheless, the Xds remains my EDC piece.

But it ain't "soft" to shoot by any stretch of the imagination. Unless maybe you're someone along the size of somebody like Brock Lesnar or the like.

My $0.02.
I have to disagree. I have 2 of the .45 XD-S's and found them to be very soft shooting...even with +p.
My only complaint is the recall, seems SA is determined to alienate many owners they way they are mishandling it.

JERRY
September 29, 2013, 11:16 PM
ive heard that springfield will be holding a lot of the recalled guns at their factory until they can figure out how to fix their problems....something wrong with the trigger safety?

OilyPablo
September 29, 2013, 11:31 PM
The recall is leaving a sour taste in my mouth. I faithfully shipped it the day after it was announced even though mine had no issues and they now have my gun!

That said, the gun feels great in my hand, hardly any recoil, totally reliable, very slim, easy to carry and exceedingly accurate. Exactly what I wanted in .45ACP.

hentown
October 1, 2013, 12:07 PM
I like my xd40 a lot better the the glock19.

Although I hesitate to respond to a guy who's from a state where football isn't played, I would like to offer you $400 for your G19. :evil:

Simmy952
October 2, 2013, 08:38 AM
I own several Glock models. My first CCW was a G27. My EDC was a XDs till it went back for the recall. I have tried a G30 and G36 and cannot seem to shoot them well. The compact Glocks tear me up when spending any range time with them. I don't have any issues with my G29. My hands just do not like a Glock in 45acp. Totally different story with the XDs. I can easily go through a few hundred rds with no issues. The ergos are different and the recoil is much more manageable with the XDs. Even with warm 230gr ammo.

gym
October 4, 2013, 01:07 AM
As I have mentioned from the beginning, I had my RMA printed up, and thought that it wasn't a great idea to send it in, until I at least knew how long the repair would take, and what the heck it actually was. I also considered that they may get overwhelmed and offer us a self install kit at some point, once they realize the mess they created for themselves.
This seems like a class action suit will appear suddenly. If so they may be forced to refund the cost of the gun once it becomes, " an unreasonable delay", at that point I will decide what my options are. It is very odd to recall a product when you can't offer a repair for it, I would think they will have to make good on it at some point.
And don't think for a moment that just because they are a well known company, that they can't go bankrupt, or at least seek protection under the bankruptcy laws if this gets too expensive to fix. If they sold a million guns and it cost 50 dollars to fix each one, "it may be more or less", it may be a real problem to come up with that money after it has been spent.
It also will affect their gun sales looking forward, "I know I won't be buying a polymer gun from them soon", although their 1911's remain solid. We don't know how much of their business is in Polymer pistols.
The same thing has happened to Mercedes and Samsung, who offered refunds or repairs, without admitting blame, "but they had the fix for their problems".
Springfield seems to be "lost", at the moment with several hundred thousand Plus guns sitting in their warehouse. And stores not ordering new merchandise on two of their biggest selling models, until the air clears.

XD 45acp
October 4, 2013, 10:33 AM
I have to say that my XDs was a joy to shoot. I didn't find it harsh at all. My problem now, ( and it is just me ) that I was under the impression that the internal workings was a scaled down version of the full size. I now found out it isnt and that's my deal with it. I thought it was something it isnt. And really, thats my own fault for ASSUMING, and not doing my research before I bought it.

gym
October 4, 2013, 12:56 PM
Don't blame yourself, we were told by one of the best company's that this gun was the greatest little, polymer 45 that was ever made, "basically". Why would you doubt a company like Springfield, it's in the top tier of gun makers. We expect when they release a product, that it is safe and that they have done all of the testing that goes along with releasing a new weapon to the world.
It would be like Colt or Glock, bringing a dangerous gun to market. All of this should have been caught in the R&D and test phases. This is no "little problem", like an extractor or a recoil spring. It is pretty interesting that they can't figure out what's causing this. It leads me to believe it may be the frame of something that can't be fixed with a part replacement. Perhaps the slide has to be reworked. Or the firing pin channel, if so it's going to cost them a lot more than they thought. I think they can fix it, but the fix is too costly, and they are trying to find a cheaper way of doing it.
Anything man built can be fixed, but if it costs too much time the cost gets out of control. And who knows which other guns this carries over to? Or how many guns are out there. The postage alone and the extra people aside from the part are a killer.
Does anyone know how many guns we are talking about?

clamman
October 4, 2013, 02:05 PM
I've been fiddling with my XDs, loaded or unloaded , trying my best to get it to slam fire or double tap. Can't get it to. We'll see what the fix is and then I might send it back.

OilyPablo
October 4, 2013, 07:15 PM
Indeed, mine never had an issue.

I guess the deal happens with your finger on the boogerhookswitch and some other combo. Stuff I never tried, maybe because it would seem unsafe at best!

ritepath
October 4, 2013, 10:19 PM
On that page enter your serial number and click Next. If your pistol is subject to this recall, you will need to provide your name,

^ Doesn't this suggest that there's a fix for the recall? Unless of course all SN's are in the recall.

GBExpat
October 4, 2013, 10:24 PM
Apparently, all SNs are in the recall.

gym
October 5, 2013, 01:39 AM
Anyone know how many guns were sold? The shipping alone has to cost them a fortune, let alone the mechanics and part. Could this be a hundred million dollar deal?

JR24
October 5, 2013, 02:55 AM
Sold my one (and only) XD. I'd get a Kahr first in myself.

TahoeDust
October 5, 2013, 03:07 AM
Anyone know how many guns were sold? The shipping alone has to cost them a fortune, let alone the mechanics and part. Could this be a hundred million dollar deal?
I read they sold around 225k guns. I don't think it will be quite that expensive. I would guess probably closer to $10m.

1006
October 5, 2013, 03:28 AM
Croatian Sensation

gym
October 5, 2013, 06:11 PM
The shipping has to be 30-50 dollars, times 250,000, say $40 per gun, that would be 10 million just for shipping, without labor or parts. I think it's going to be higher than that Tahoe. This may be a lot more.

meef
October 5, 2013, 08:10 PM
Posted at Springfield's site, FYI:

XD-S Voluntary Safety Recall FAQ
Updated Oct. 4, 2013
This information applies only to XD-S pistols in the serial number ranges below

Springfield 3.3 XD-S 9mm pistols - serial numbers between XS900000 and XS938700
Springfield 3.3 XD-S .45ACP pistols - serial numbers between XS500000 and XS686300

This Springfield XD-S Recall FAQ will be updated every Friday through the recall process. Please check back for updates.

Thank you for the positive response to our voluntary safety recall and to our most recent update. We exercised extreme caution by issuing this recall and we did so because safety is, and always has been, our paramount concern. We truly appreciate the enormous support, patience and loyalty of our customers and we remain committed to resolving this matter quickly and ensuring that you are pleased with your upgraded 3.3 XD-S.

As we noted in last Friday's update, our testing of potential upgrade solutions has continued and we are pleased to tell you that we have made significant progress over the last seven days. We have now identified what we believe is our final upgrade solution and throughout this coming week we will be continuing with our thorough and exhaustive testing of that solution. It's because of our commitment to your safety that we are conducting such extensive testing and we are working as fast as we can so that we can return your upgraded pistol to you.

We understand that our voluntary safety recall has made it inconvenient for you to be without your pistol, and we sincerely apologize for that. We expect to have more definitive information to share with you by Friday, October 11.

As a reminder, do not use your 3.3 XD-S until the upgrade has been performed.

meatcreeper
October 7, 2013, 06:57 PM
The "hype" about the XD-S for me began when I got my 1st XD, a service 45 ACP cal w/thumb safety. Literally chose between that gun and a 1911. It just felt a tad better in my sausage hands. When a previous ammo shortage had 45 ammo scarce, I got an XD service 40 S&W. When I was able to carry, I got an XD 40 SC. Love them all. Also got an LCP for carry. Felt too small to me, and I was wanting a better sight system.

When the XD-S came out, I sold a couple before getting one for myself. Fit better in my hands than the LCP, but fit better on my waist than the 40 SC for CC. Took it to the range, and yes, the recoil was angrier than its big brother, but not unmanageable for me. LCP aside, it was my main carry weapon.

Still love my XDs but not wanting to go back to SC or LCP for carry. Would get a 40 S&W Shield if the price is right. Then I could swap them out during recall periods -- :) -- JUST KIDDING. Maybe.

MC

bikemutt
October 7, 2013, 11:32 PM
I tried both the XDS 45 and 9mm. I could shoot both guns with a surprising degree of accuracy. I don't know quite what it was but I did not care for either of them. Sold the 9mm about two weeks before the recall.

I figured since I'd already tried the XD and XDm lines and didn't care for those either, maybe Springfield's just weren't for me.

Then I met my EMP, I'm feeling the love :)

JERRY
October 7, 2013, 11:38 PM
you want a compact mini polymer .45acp? check the wtt/wts ads.

powder
October 7, 2013, 11:44 PM
The shipping has to be 30-50 dollars, times 250,000, say $40 per gun, that would be 10 million just for shipping, without labor or parts. I think it's going to be higher than that Tahoe. This may be a lot more.

Imagine the logistics: Do you bring 25 members of the Croation Assembly/Engineering to Springfield, to fix this? Or, do you ship them all out in "one batch a week" back to Croatia?

Looks like the 04 OCT 13 numbers put it at almost 180,000 pistols, so far. This is THE XDs hype.

rhinoh
October 8, 2013, 07:49 PM
Its a Walther PPS with a grip safety.
Ya know if Walther made a .45 PPS I'd probably buy one, I already have the 9 and the 40:D

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