Lead Bullets: Do you load using the Lyman 2 Step Expander Die?


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nevadabob
September 29, 2013, 01:23 PM
Been loading plated 9's for awhile and now going to lead. One manufacturer of lead bullets stopped me dead in my tracks when his website stated to only use the Lyman dies and in particular, the Lyman 2 Step Expander Die. The site stated to not flare the case mouth and this die does the job correctly. When I looked up the Lyman die, their website states "By adjusting the neck expanding plug slightly deeper, the second step also provides a slight flaring of the case mouth for reloaders using cast bullets." I'm confused. Do you guys only use Lyman dies for reloading cast bullets? Can I keep my Lee set?

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Thompsoncustom
September 29, 2013, 01:29 PM
I've used both the lee expander and the Lyman M die, Both work just differently. I would say the lyman M die works better than the Lee die if you have the right expander plug in it but I would just try your lee and if it doesn't work you can get a Lyman M die or a different Lee expander plug.

As long as you bullets are not being undersides it doesn't really matter.

steve4102
September 29, 2013, 01:54 PM
The site stated to not flare the case mouth

He did not mean "do not flare the case mouth".

He meant, do not Just flare the case mouth, expand the case and flare the case mouth.

Some say that just flaring the case mouth for lead bullets is not sufficient to keep the brass case from swaging down the lead bullet. Hence the Lyman "M" die recommendation.

I have a few "M" dies, but prefer the Redding Expander, it is one piece and seems to be less sensitive to case length. YMMV

nevadabob
September 29, 2013, 02:04 PM
Steve...He specifically states: "Thou Shalt Not Flare Case Mouths For Cast Bullets!"

mbopp
September 29, 2013, 02:22 PM
I added a Lyman "M" die to my 357 Herrett set for reloading cast .358" bullets.
For 45ACP and 38/357 I'm using the factory RCBS expander.
I've heard there are machinists over on CastBoolits who will turn your expander and make it a 2-step design a la Lyman.

ReloaderFred
September 29, 2013, 02:56 PM
The Lyman "M" die isn't a necessity, but it makes it easier to load cast bullets correctly. To flat out make a statement like that shows a lack of experience, in my opinion. I've been casting my own bullets since 1968, and reloading since 1963, and I didn't have a Lyman "M" die on my bench until about 10 years ago. I like them, but to say you can't load cast bullets without one is nonsense.

In the years I was actively shooting PPC matches on our department pistol team, I loaded about 30,000 rounds of HBWC, all without the benefit of an "M" die. As long as I did my part, the bullets went into the X ring at 50 yards and closer.

Don't worry about it if you don't have the "M" die for now. You can always pick one up later if you decide you need one. Just add enough bell to the case mouth to allow the bullet to seat without shaving lead, and then enough taper crimp to remove the bell.

Hope this helps.

Fred

243winxb
September 29, 2013, 07:24 PM
The M die is for bottle neck type rifles cartridges, when using cast bullets. Rifle dies dont bell/flare the case mouth.

ranger335v
September 29, 2013, 09:25 PM
only is Lyman's M expander the best design available, it's so good Redding copied it for their handgun dies and I believe RCBS did for their "cowboy" dies. Making it flare a case mouth, handgun or rifle, is simply a depth adjustment. The short second step of the expander plug is about 1/16" long and is made slightly over normal bullet diameter to insure the critical heel of flat base bullets of any kind aren't damaged during seating. Only if a lead bullet is overly large would the third step flaring part ever be needed.

While M expanders obviously aren't "necessary", they are indeed helpful. I have one for every handgun and rifle caliber I load for, .224 to .458. They work well for both jacketed and lead bullets.

Otto
September 29, 2013, 09:57 PM
He specifically states: "Thou Shalt Not Flare Case Mouths For Cast Bullets!"

Yeah, he also says: "Lyman 4 die sets are the only dies manufactured that will reload cast bullets and jacketed bullets interchangeably and correctly."

Personally, I don't buy that....but you're free to believe anything you want.

Thompsoncustom
September 29, 2013, 10:00 PM
The first bullets I reloaded I used a lee classic loader and a punch to flare the case, it worked enough that they didn't lead so it can be done with many things many ways.

Arkansas Paul
September 29, 2013, 10:04 PM
Yeah, he also says: "Lyman 4 die sets are the only dies manufactured that will reload cast bullets and jacketed bullets interchangeably and correctly."

Personally, I don't buy that....but you're free to believe anything you want.

Yeah, that's total BS. I use the cheap Lee dies for .45 Colt, .40 and .38 Special and they load both cast and jacketed just fine.

wgaynor
September 29, 2013, 10:04 PM
I use the Lee universal Flaring Die and I have no problems. I load Cast Bullets 95% of the time. Before I bought the flaring die I used a pair of pliers. Only difference? Saves me time.

jr_roosa
September 29, 2013, 10:15 PM
I like the M die for 45acp. I don't need it for .38 though because for whatever reason the bullets seat straighter.

The expander on the dillon powder die is at least as good as the M die.

J.

Crashbox
September 29, 2013, 10:36 PM
I purchased a .357 Magnum Lyman 'M' die and it sure made a difference in seating cast bullets, and I also have reason to believe it helped with their accuracy.

I also have one for my .405 Winchester but haven't put it to use yet.

GLOOB
September 30, 2013, 05:57 AM
Sometimes a regular expander die doesn't do a good job for cast bullets. Just a fact. They might work fine for you, your sizing dies, your brass, your gun, and your bullets. So try and see.

My Lee 357 and 45ACP dies do a good job. But the 10mm expander is mediocre. And the 9mm is completely unacceptable (and this is mostly due to the sizing die, as I'll explain.)

My Lee 357 expander works fine because it expands most all the way through where the bullet seats, not just the mouth. (This is similar to how the M die works, only the M die is even better.) But none of my Lee autoloading handgun expander plugs come close. They only flare the mouth.

You might think a flare just on the mouth is ideal. More neck tension is better, right? Well, you don't get more neck tension with cast bullets beyond a point. After that, the brass just swages the bullet down.

My Lee 45 ACP flaring die works fine with cast bullets, partially because my Lee 45ACP sizer die barely sizes the cases to begin with. With the thinner cases, the neck tension is actually noticeably loose with jacketed bullets. Perfect for cast bullets, though, with all my brass.

My Lee 9mm sizing die really cranks down those thick 9mm cases. And then the flaring die will only touch the mouth. Seating cast bullets squished the bases down to as little as 0.353". This caused poor accuracy and lead fouling. Instead of an M die, I bought the 38S&W expander plug, and I use that for my cast 9mm. It was only a few bucks, and a couple days in transit. Lee Precision ships fast, IME. Note, the 38SW/9mm expander plug swap is a unique situation where there is a cheap solution. In has been posted in many forums. You can't order a stock plug to "fix" most other Lee flaring dies.

A good rule of thumb for your cast pistol reloads: if you are getting leading and bad accuracy, take a look at your reloads. If your expander only flares the mouth AND your reloads look like a snake that swallowed a cow, you might wanna investigate a little further by pulling a bullet and putting calipers on it. A good flare die will make your empty cases look like the "coke bottle" before you seat the bullet.

So as you can see, folks could load cast pistol bullets their entire lives and see no need for anything but a stock expander. But that may be little more than dumb luck, and it could have as much to do with their sizing dies and brass as it does the shape of their flaring die. Their dies just happen to work well for what they're shooting.

I use an M die for all rifle reloading, cast or jacketed. Wouldn't do without it.

Because bottleneck rifle expander plugs expand the entire neck, you can more than likely shoot cast rifle bullets just fine with your regular dies (with a couple exceptions). You may just need to put a little flare on the mouth to avoid shaving, and to prevent the bullet from tipping while seating, is all. Also, the gas check which is used on most cast rifle bullets would effectively protect the bullet from case-swaging, anyway. But the M dies are awesome on a stick for rifle cartridges for a couple of other reasons - in addition to the fact they flare the mouth perfectly for holding the bullet straight with no shaving.

nevadabob
September 30, 2013, 08:46 AM
Thank you everyone for your replies! I appreciate the info.

steve4102
September 30, 2013, 09:37 AM
Steve...He specifically states: "Thou Shalt Not Flare Case Mouths For Cast Bullets!"

Yes I know, Lets just say he could use some help with the written word.

dickttx
September 30, 2013, 12:29 PM
I basically load nothing but lead. The three way Lee die expands the case a short distance (depending on caliber), flares the case mouth, and is a powder through die. I never used the Lyman M die but have never had a problem with the Lee die.
On the other hand, if you have to pay an additional $20 for it then it has to be better.:D

Dr.Zubrato
October 1, 2013, 02:23 AM
GLOOB, thank you! I've been scratching my head and wondering what I'm going to do with my 124 TC TL Lee bullets!
I'll be ordering the 38S&W expander, but can you use it normally for plated and copper jacketed bullets as well, and forget about the original 9mm expander? will a .38 special expanding die work in place of the .38 S&W expander plug?
I'll be reloading for the glock OEM barrel, btw. I know people flip lids about it, but many do so successfully so long as BHN, sizing, pressure and velocity are in spec. Any other advice?
Do you use the Lee FCD in 9mm, or do you simply use the seating die crimp?

I'll be using ice water quenched wheel weights, tumble lubed twice in 45/45/10 loaded under IMR 800x or Blue Dot

GLOOB
October 1, 2013, 08:11 AM
The 38/357 expander plug is not the right length. It's too short, IIRC.

Yes, you can use the 38SW expander for jacketed bullets. I would adjust the depth to make sure you don't expand below the base of the bullet, though. This to minimize your chance of a setback.

I don't use the FCD.

I use the same bullet as you. I use the same lube. I also shoot out of a stock Glock barrel. I'm using WW, too, but air cooled. I might use about 4.5gr Unique, but don't take that as gospel. I set the bullet so that the first lube groove is completely exposed. The second lube groove is just peeking over the case mouth on shorter brass. This puts the base of this bullet where the 38SW expander plug bottoms out. It fits my stock Glock barrels and my LW Glock barrel.

With the 9mm flare die, my reloads shot a 12 yard pattern at 100 yards. They were tumbling, for sure. Fouling was so bad that Chore Boys didn't dent it. I scraped the lead out with a piece of brass tubing. After using the 38SW flare plug in the 9mm die, the accuracy is about as good as anything else, and the fouling is minimal.

moxie
October 1, 2013, 09:57 AM
"Steve...He specifically states: "Thou Shalt Not Flare Case Mouths For Cast Bullets!""

What a bunch of hooey!

Dr.Zubrato
October 1, 2013, 11:56 AM
Awesome! Very glad to have wandered back here after lurking and asking on CB.GL.
What has your glock slugged at? Mine is .357, so I haven't sized my bullets. I think as a result of this, my rounds only pass the drop in test at a little under 1.10.
So, I may be looking at undersized cast, even with the S&W expander bottomed out?
Thanks again for the quick reply!

DeadFlies
October 1, 2013, 01:51 PM
When I used to load lead 9mm I used the Lee Powder Through Expanding Die; it works great. When I'm doing 30-30 I open the case mouth a bit with a pair of needle-nose pliers and finish it with the Lee FCD; that seems to work just fine too.

Reloading can be as complicated or simple as you want or need it to be. I have no need for the Lyman M die. YMMV.

nevadabob
October 1, 2013, 03:10 PM
If I decided to go with the Lyman M Expander Die, in what sequence would I use it? I have a Lee single stage press, Lee 4 die set (9mm), and a Lee Pro Auto Disk. Obviously I'd use it before dropping powder. Since the Lyman expands/flares, what happens at powder dropping? My Lee powder die allows the powder drop and expands the case mouth as well. Looks like I'd disable the case mouth flare function on the Lee die. Hope this is clear.

GLOOB
October 1, 2013, 04:44 PM
Curious. Are you mounting a powder measure on top of your SS press? Which one?

If that's how you roll 'em, the Lyman M die will add an extra step. FWIW, flaring can be batched on a SS press quite fast if you orient your shellholder so that the flared case is pushed out when you put in the next case.

Dr. Z: I have yet to slug a bore or size a pistol bullet. I really don't care if my bullets are exactly 1 mic larger than the bore. They shoot straight or they don't. If they're not shooting straight, making them smaller isn't going to help.
my rounds only pass the drop in test at a little under 1.10.
I dunno what your Glock is like. Mine doesn't care about OAL. If it fits in the mag, it will fit in the chamber. The freebore is all the same diameter. So I'm not sure how your drop test is dependent on the OAL, unless you're already at the rifling. And we all know the Glock rifling starts about halfway down the barrel. Maybe your barrel needs a cleaning?

nevadabob
October 1, 2013, 04:53 PM
GLOOB...Yes, I have the Lee Pro Auto Disk unit attached to my powder die. And appears I'd be adding another step in the sequence.

popper
October 1, 2013, 05:16 PM
Bob - get the 38P M die for 9mm. End of frustrations.

GLOOB
October 1, 2013, 06:14 PM
Here's why I believe 9mm is one of the worst offenders when it comes to improper flare.

http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv241/gloob27x/9mmcast_zps4888af5b.jpg

Because of the taper of the case (and the shortness), many 9mm cases tend to get thicker near where the base of the bullet is going to sit. Once this case is pushed through a carbide ring-sizer, this extra brass gets squished inward to a way smaller interior diameter than necessary. If you flare just the mouth, your bullet is going to have to expand that thick brass out, by itself. This is how the base of a cast 9mm bullet can get squished down to 4-5 mics too small! That would be impossible in a 45ACP case with a sizer die and brass that isn't extraordinarily out of spec.

Also, I have some DAG 9mm cases that get suddenly thicker right behind where the factory bullet sits. It's almost like a ridge. With deep seated bullets, they take the coke bottle effect to new levels.

nevadabob
October 1, 2013, 07:57 PM
Got it, thanks for the diagram.

fecmech
October 3, 2013, 09:50 PM
As the previous poster stated the 9MM case is probably the worst offender in regards to cast bullets and one that garners by far the most questions on the Cast Boolit board. The Lyman "M" die prevents the case from sizing the bullet smaller and is way better than most of the expanders in die sets which are designed for jacketed bullets. If any caliber really needs the "M" die or similar expander it is the 9MM!

Dr.Zubrato
October 4, 2013, 12:38 AM
I purchased the 38 SW expander, and I expanded a few cases.
While I havent seated any boolits, or made any loads yet, i can see a DEFINITE improvement!
This look like just the ticket! Do you guys also flare the care mouth using the traditional 9mm flare die, or is the 38 expander sufficient without shaving any lead? is it possible to get more flare from the new expander die by inserting a spacer, since the die itself will bottom out?
Sorry for the questions all at once, I work a lot recently and I feel like I need to get this thing right the first or second time out on the range..

I cant wait to work up some loads! when I compared the expanders side by side, I knew I had a winner. :D:D

GLOOB
October 5, 2013, 12:35 AM
Dr. Z. Sounds like you bought the whole 38SW expander die? You were supposed to buy just the plug. http://leeprecision.com/pm-expan-plg-38-s-w.html

Take apart your 9mm flare die. Take out the 9mm plug. Put in the 38SW plug. Now you have the 38SW expander plug at the right depth for a 9mm case. It will flare the mouth, too.

Dr.Zubrato
October 5, 2013, 01:21 AM
Naw, I purchased just the expander plug. I made a dummy round with no shaving lead or lube off the boolits, and pulled the boolit with no swaging even when seated to 1.07
I'm very happy, thanks for the reccomendation!

How many rounds per charge workup do you think is necessary to gauge leading? I'm thinking 15 rounds per .2 gr increment, with chore boy in between workups.
I'm not too worried, because the boolits are sized perfectly to bore, and lubed pretty well, but this is going to be my first experience shooting proper lead.

I almost swore off lead forever when I bought some .38spl PPU rounds, the leading was so horrendous I was keyholing at 10 yards within 14 rounds.
I pulled a few to see the boolits were almost as soft as pure lead, sized .353, with absolutely ZERO lube. Needless to say, for someone who had never experienced leading before, this was an experience I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

Buck13
October 5, 2013, 12:26 PM
I'll be using ice water quenched wheel weights, tumble lubed twice in 45/45/10 loaded under IMR 800x or Blue Dot


(emphasis added)

I think your loading bench is upside down. Try flipping it over and it will be much easier to keep the powder in the cases! ;)

Randy in Arizona
October 6, 2013, 09:05 PM
I lucked out when I hit a local gun emporium and they
had 5 Lyman M dies in their junk dies box for $2 each.

I spent more money getting the right plugs to open up
cases to the right sizes for the stuff I load than I did
on the dies. But all told I spent less on the five used
dies than I would have spent on one at Midway.

406

ADKWOODSMAN
October 6, 2013, 09:27 PM
Never had a problem with RCBS 3 die pistol dies.

nevadabob
October 6, 2013, 10:07 PM
I've been following the GLOOB/Dr.Zubrato posts re the 38SW plug. I ordered one today plus a spare 9mm PTE die. I do not get shavings with my original Lee PTE die setup but my accuracy is questionable. I also ordered some barrel slugs from Dardas so I'll be checking the barrel(s) in the near future. I have a spare Lee Pro Auto Disk setup, so I'll put the new PTE die/38SW plug on it then do a side-by-side product comparison.
I was thinking "Why don't I just stick with plated bullets?????" because the current route seems like a lot of work. But it's fun work and I'm learning!

Dr.Zubrato
October 6, 2013, 11:45 PM
Nevadabob: There's a great trick i learned on Castboolits for slugging your barrel, I reccomend you head over there and do lots of reading.
Trick is, put some fishing weights into a fired brass case for the caliber you're slugging, as much as you can get in. Melt it down with a propane torch and use a bullet puller to remove the lead once its cooled.

Now you won't have to worry about cramming an oversized slug down your barrel! Remember to lube the slug, and to lube your barrel.

Also: Wait about 1-2 weeks minimum before you try to seat any boolits to check for case swaging. The alloy will harden over time, so if youre going to size, do it soon, and let the lead age harden.

I almost exclusively reloaded plated bullets when I started due to cost, but realized the real cost savings lie in cast boolits, especially for plinking.
Save your jackets for screamers like 223, but anything else really, I think lead is perfect. If you're doing things right, you can take your boolits over the plated 1250fps speed limit.

@Buck: Powder, nuthin'! Gluing an office chair to the ceiling proved to be the real challenge :D

nevadabob
October 7, 2013, 04:11 AM
Thanks for the tip!

Dr.Zubrato
October 8, 2013, 02:03 AM
I'm having two seperate issues with 9mm so far. Found titegroup at Cabelas, so I bought 2lbs (lucky!) and when working up loads i noticed some rounds would setback WAY too easily (hard finger pressure) all the way to 1.02 from 1.12, and some would fail the plunk test until I ran them through the Lee FCD with the carbide ring.
I set the rejects aside and kept the rest, but I'm a little concerned now. I am using mixed brass, and the rejects show no brand patterns. Lead boolits are lubed up quite a bit and pretty easy to setback i hear, so case neck tension is important.

I'm guessing its going to be a battle between my expander, and the fact I don't size my boolits.

Any ideas?

GLOOB
October 8, 2013, 04:20 AM
Dr. Zubrato:

Regarding setback and neck tension:
Put some calipers on your bullets and your new expander plug. The plug should be at least 1 mic smaller in diameter than your bullets (I think; maybe someone else can chime in, here). It sounds like your bullets are either dropping on the small side, or your expander plug is on the larger side. If this is the case, you may either choose to sand down the expander plug or make your bullets bigger (hone out the bullet mold or change alloy and/or temp).

As for your plunk test woes, there could be many reasons. I would measure and experiment with taper crimp before messing with the FCD. It might be a simple fix. But first things, first. Measure bullets, measure expander, measure the OD of your taper crimp.

I am using mixed brass, and the rejects show no brand patterns
The neck tension is now dictated largely by the expander plug, not the brass/sizing. Your neck tension should be fairly consistent between headstamps, so long as the brass is at least thick enough to be sized far enough to begin with. So it's not surprising that your neck tension problems are not headstamp dependent.

Dr.Zubrato
October 20, 2013, 04:08 PM
Don't know if anyone is still interested, but just figured I'd post this for anyone in the future with similar problems.
I ended up shooting em with no issues, except one of my starting loads was a bit below the minimum, which prevented the base from fully obturating, and caused a bit of lead fouling. Super accurate and put a hell of a ringin on those steel plates, even my 38 won't ring em like that!

What I did: Using a 38 s&w flared Win case I screened size of boolits, as I haven't sized them and some drop bigger than .357(alloy temp most likely, I don't use a thermometer) so I put these aside. By doing this, I was able to eliminate my problem with bulged cases and failed plunk test.

With regard to the neck tension issue, upon loading 500 more cartridges with my pet load, I did notice a very significant difference in neck tension between manufacturers, with RP and PMC brass having the least neck tension and being most prone to setback.
This is where I sized my extra large boolits to .358, relubed, and seated with no issues in neck tension. My cases no longer bulge, and my boolits don't set back.

Loading lead 9mm is definitely an investment in reloading knowledge, and a pretty big initial time investment in tinkering with what works and what doesn't, but it most definitely pays off when you see the end result, and you can load a few hundred for a fraction of the cost of FMJ/plated rounds.

Thanks for the advice Gloob! Definitely needed someone with experience to help me out. Good luck to anyone toying with the idea of lead, it's tons of fun and plenty rewarding!

nevadabob
October 21, 2013, 09:04 AM
Thanks for the update. I installed the 38 S&W plug and it would "catch & bend" one side of the case mouth. Tried to keep the case going up & in straight as possible, but 5 of the 10 I tried became junk.
I ordered the Lyman M 2 step expander die and will try that route. Should have it in a couple of days.

Springfield0612
October 21, 2013, 04:41 PM
Good thread! I too use the .38 S&W expander in my Lee dies on my Lee Pro 1000 press. I also had issues with bullet setback and cases not fully chambering using the .38 S&W expander. I added a little more crimp during seating and everything is GTG now! 9mm and cast lead is an adventure!
Now that your adventure with the 9mm is over. What are your going to do with all your spare time? Tackle the casting temp issue and build a PID controller for your lead pot! Pandoras Box is now open!
Reloading is a gateway drug. I reload because I shoot, I cast because I reload, I tinker because I've mastered everything else! Give me more!

sexybeast
October 21, 2013, 05:31 PM
Well I am very interested in this thread. I shoot about 1k of cast bullets each month with 9mm being what I shoot most. 9 is the most difficult by far as far as accuracy goes.
After reading this I'm going to try the Lyman expander die, the 38S&W expander for Lee's powder through expander die is almost as much, and I have an empty station. Lee wants $9 for shipping!
40 and 45 are straight walled cases, 9 is tapered. Do you see this causing any problems as the bullets push out the case as they are set? One thing I am going to have to do is pull some loaded bullets and mic them. And then compare them to new/unloaded ones and see if they are bing swaged down as I am setting them. Keep this thread going! Its one of the most informative ones for us cast bullet loaders.

Dr.Zubrato
October 21, 2013, 06:04 PM
Springfield, I think i may need a tinfoil hat as well, because you've read my mind, thats exactly what I've been reading about for the past few days on CB..
it doesn't end, does it? :D
the only project im keeping my distance from (for now) is cast 223.

sexybeast: What kind of alloy, quenching, and aging do you have going? If you're loading freshly cast alloy, you may have swaging issues either way, so I would wait at least 2 weeks in between casting and seating (tough, i know)
Having said that, before using the 38SW expander plug I definitely noticed a bulged coke bottle appearance which plunked just fine, but looked suspect to the virgin eye.

sexybeast
October 21, 2013, 07:42 PM
Dr Z, I don't cast 9mm or 40. I usually only cast .45 because I don't know the hardness of the lead as I mined it from our local range. I believe .45 is more forgiving. And also its the only caliber I have a mold for!
I have used mostly Missouri bullets, both 115 and 125gr. Weideners has 3k of 122gr 9s at times for $159 delivered, and before they went out of business I tried some Velocity bullets. All of them used Magma molds.
I just placed an order from Dardas for their 126 swc and 147s both sized to .357 which I have always wanted to try.
So I guess the longwinded answer is that I don't "age" my bullets.
Up until now I have been using a Lee factory crimp die to finish and clean up any bulges from flaring. From what I read on Darda's website the use of a factory crimp should be avoided. I think I have a taper crimp but have never used it.
Since were discussing flaring and expander dies, what do you more experienced loaders think about finishing/crimp dies. I leave the factory crimp die wide open and use it to just clean up the flare.

nevadabob
October 21, 2013, 11:28 PM
Shhhh...don't tell anyone...I use the Lee FCD. Over on the Cast Boolits site, under the reloading equipment section, they've got a thread/poll asking folks if they use it: 377 aye's to 110 no's.

nevadabob
October 24, 2013, 06:12 AM
What I thought was the Lyman expander die arrived yesterday. Like a kid at Christmas, I eagerly opened my AMAZON.COM shipment and found a Lyman crimp die!!! I checked my paperwork and I had ordered the m die....but got the wrong part. THANKS AMAZON!!!
Well, it happens to the best of us. Got ahold of them, they credited my account and sent the free shipping label. Today it gets returned.
Got back on the computer and ordered a m die from Midway. What I should've done in the first place!!! Life is good.

nevadabob
October 31, 2013, 08:48 AM
Received the Lyman M die from Midway yesterday and did some preliminary tests between it and my Lee feed & expander die. The Lyman works as advertised...but so does my Lee. At this point I see no need to switch to the Lyman.

RealGun
October 31, 2013, 12:36 PM
I received mine yesterday and, in terms of bevel-based lead bullets, it is a real solution for getting those bullets (measured at .452) to stand straight for insertion.

While it is redundant in principle to the PTX in the powder measure, it does not replace any die in my setups, requiring its own station, so on my Hornady LnL with 5 stations, I removed the RCBS lock out die, which follows the powder charge. I was eyeballing every charge anyway and only loading .45ACP, which is easy to monitor visually, given the InLine Fabrications Skylight.

When I received the die, it was very clean, but I took it apart and flushed everything with One Shot.

Springfield0612
November 22, 2013, 07:19 PM
I found another one Dr. Z. Powder coating bullets. Come to the dark side! I now have zero leading in my 9mm's!

sexybeast
November 23, 2013, 12:11 AM
As the previous poster stated the 9MM case is probably the worst offender in regards to cast bullets and one that garners by far the most questions on the Cast Boolit board. The Lyman "M" die prevents the case from sizing the bullet smaller and is way better than most of the expanders in die sets which are designed for jacketed bullets. If any caliber really needs the "M" die or similar expander it is the 9MM!
Amen brother! 9mm has given me fits with lead. Seems I was "squishing" the bullet with the FCD. You can't make the carbide ring in the FCD larger, but if you use larger lead bullets then this is what you have. Most of my 9mm loads do have a little bulge where the base of the bullet is, then I squeeze it down and all the accuracy goes to hell. This is mostly with 9 simply because of the taper of the cartridge and the area/diameter of the bullet. With 40 it seems the base expands [obutrates] with the pressure and seals up the bore completly or at least much better than 9mm. By using the Lyman expander M die and switching at the same time to a tapercrimp die I have noticed an improvement in accuracy.
I still have some experimentation to do with both calibers. I'm also now using Dardas bullets sized to .357 and so far I'm happy with the results.

nevadabob
November 23, 2013, 09:00 AM
sexybeast...You mentioned that you use Darda's 0.357's. Awhile back I took advantage of their slug measurement program. I slugged the barrels on my four 9mm pistols and one pistol was "suspect". I kept getting a 0.355 to 0.356 slug reading on my M&P. I packaged it and sent to Darda's and they got a 0.356 reading. I then ordered the 0.357's from them. Did you get the THR discount?
I'm still playing around (probably not the best phrase to use when talking about reloading) with the Lyman m die. I can see where the Lyman drops into the case a little further than the Lee powder thru expander die. I see where that would insure a proper standing bullet. But I've loaded up a bunch of Lyman & non Lyman rounds, labeled them, gone out to the range, and both categories perform well. I've pulled several rounds and have not detected any squish factor or lead shavings. This has been a very interesting topic and I appreciate the responses.

sexybeast
November 23, 2013, 12:24 PM
sexybeast...You mentioned that you use Darda's 0.357's. Awhile back I took advantage of their slug measurement program. I slugged the barrels on my four 9mm pistols and one pistol was "suspect". I kept getting a 0.355 to 0.356 slug reading on my M&P. I packaged it and sent to Darda's and they got a 0.356 reading. I then ordered the 0.357's from them. Did you get the THR discount?
I'm still playing around (probably not the best phrase to use when talking about reloading) with the Lyman m die. I can see where the Lyman drops into the case a little further than the Lee powder thru expander die. I see where that would insure a proper standing bullet. But I've loaded up a bunch of Lyman & non Lyman rounds, labeled them, gone out to the range, and both categories perform well. I've pulled several rounds and have not detected any squish factor or lead shavings. This has been a very interesting topic and I appreciate the responses
Yo Nevada;
I did get the HR discount. I also shoot an m&p 9 and I just slugged my barrel with a soft 147gr .358 soft wadcutter that I had. I also slugged my glock too. Both came out to .356 or actually .3557 with my micrometer. So I went to .357 with Dardas bullets and so far with the 147's I am happy. Still doing some adjustments opening up the case mouth, first time I opened it up a little much but the 147's just slip right in.
I put them on paper next to some 122 gr trfp and they group better being a little larger bullet. My second order from Dardas arrived yesterday too. Great bullet maker, not too big and will size your bullets to several diameters. Great packaging too. Everything arrived intact! I have found a replacement for Missouri bullets finally.
I've been reloading for years! And have used the factory crimp die with every pistol cartridge but I just removed them from all my turrets and am replacing them with taper crimp dies.

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