J frame VS K frame trigger quality.


PDA






JJHACK
September 30, 2013, 03:30 PM
I assume with the greater leverage the k frame is better out of the chute. And can probably be made better then the J

But since I've not owned a J frame I'm curious. Can the J frame in a 22 be made to fire as well as the bigger frames?

If you enjoyed reading about "J frame VS K frame trigger quality." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
rbernie
September 30, 2013, 03:34 PM
In my experience, you cannot get a trigger on a J frame to be as smooth and light as you can with a larger gun (K frame or N frame) and also have it be reliable. As far as I know, this is predominantly due to the loss of hammer mass in the smaller gun, requiring a stiffer hammer spring to compensate.

Old Fuff
September 30, 2013, 04:54 PM
Also as a rule-of thumb, a .22 rim-fire (regular or Magnum) requires a stiffer set of springs because it is more difficult to set off the priming compound then in a center-fire primer.

Kp321
September 30, 2013, 05:08 PM
The K frame leaf hammer spring vs the J frame coil spring is a contributing factor also. The coil spring has the friction of the strut to deal with in addition to the difference in hammer weight and geometry.

MrBorland
September 30, 2013, 07:53 PM
And can probably be made better then the J

If, by "better", you only mean pull weight, then yes.

OTOH, a "good" trigger has more to do with smoothness and consistency (of the pull and return) than weight, so in this regard, a J-frame trigger can certainly be tuned to be as "good" as a k-frame. You'll have to find a good gunsmith who agrees, though. ;)

Deaf Smith
September 30, 2013, 10:33 PM
Can the J frame in a 22 be made to fire as well as the bigger frames?

Well JJHACK, it just depends on what you consider 'as well as bigger frames'.

Now take a good S&W K frame .38. If left alone (no modification) and then you get say a &W 34 kit gun in .22 lr., and disassemble it:

1. hone the rebound slide and the frame where the slide moves back and forward
2. polish the inside of the rebound slide with a cratex tool
3. use a 1 lb less weight return spring (it fits in the rebound slide) Wolf makes them.
4. use a 1 lb less hammer spring (wolf springs)
5. hone the bolt stop where the trigger slides against it
6. hone the sides of the side plate that fit against the hammer and trigger
7. make sure the 'window' where the hand fits has no burrs (and if so use a window file to take them out.)
8. polish the hammer spring strut so there are no burs or rough spots
9. and use a very good grease, like Microlon, on the insides

Then you might get the .22 to have about the same action as the .38 K frame.

Of course if you do all the above on the K frame you will then have a real real good action!

And yes, I do those kinds of things to my S&Ws.

Deaf

JJHACK
September 30, 2013, 10:50 PM
Thanks,

I guess I am just wondering if I could get a model 63 to shoot 1.5-2" groups or better at 25 yards consistently. So far in my experience I have had a Ruger MkII that was deadly accurate and brilliant in almost every way. I'm not comfortable with Semi Auto guns. I just don't feel safe with that automatically cocked and ready to go function they provide. I'm a revolver guy and a bolt action guy where guns are concerned.

If I could get a Revolver that was in the same area of accuracy potential in ( single action) that a Ruger MKII is that would be worth the premium price of a great revolver for me.

I would prefer to have the smaller 63 size package, but if the 617 size is going to be the more functional choice then I have to accept that.

Old Fuff
October 1, 2013, 12:26 PM
Are we talking about hand-held or machine rest accuracy? Also single-action or double-action trigger pulls (on a revolver)?

In terms of hand-held accuracy your Ruger pistol has some important advantages over a smaller revolver.

A revolver's single-action pull can equal or surpass that on your pistol, but no double-action pull on a revolver can come close.

Hand-held accuracy is more difficult with a smaller revolver because the pistol has a larger handle and more forward weight (balance) that make it easier to keep your sight picture and alignment while pressing the trigger.

The pistol has a single chamber that is concentric with the bore, where the revolvers has (more or less) 6 chambers in a revolving cylinder, that may or may not be perfectly concentric.

In short, to fully address your questions more then just trigger pulls must be taken into consideration.

Last but not least, they’re .22 revolvers that can easily shoot 25 yard groups at or under 1 ½” from a machine rest that eliminates the “shooter issues,” but this may not be the answer you’re looking for.

Deaf Smith
October 1, 2013, 07:59 PM
JJHACK,

My 2 inch 63 will make head shots at 25 yards.. in my hands, if I shoot single action.

The trick is the 63 is not a heavy gun and thus you must be very steady with it. It does have a very nice SA action so once you cock it it can be very accurate.

Practice is the key! With the little J frame .22 you will have to shoot alot to get the steadiness for accuracy.

But the 63 does have the potential (as quite a few other guns do.)

Deaf

243winxb
October 1, 2013, 08:33 PM
http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/Firearms%20%20and%20%20Reloading/SWAccuracy.jpg (http://s338.photobucket.com/user/joe1944usa/media/Firearms%20%20and%20%20Reloading/SWAccuracy.jpg.html) This average accuracy paper came with my S&W 337PD in 38 spec. A short sight radius makes 2" barrels hard to shoot. The trigger pulls seems about the same to me, to busy watching the sights. :D http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/FirearmsReloading102/th_M60M337PD001.jpg (http://s338.photobucket.com/user/joe1944usa/media/FirearmsReloading102/M60M337PD001.jpg.html)

tipoc
October 1, 2013, 09:32 PM
But since I've not owned a J frame I'm curious. Can the J frame in a 22 be made to fire as well as the bigger frames?

Pick yourself up a kit gun and see for yourself. Come back and explain why or why not.

tipoc

ZVP
October 2, 2013, 01:03 AM
The post explaining coil vs flat spring says a LOT about the diffeences between the two frames.
I own both"J" and "K" frames and the "K" shoots rings around it's brother!
My "J" frame has a "Bobbed" hammer fprmer Owner's mod but I like it too!) and it makes the little revolver snag proof as can be made but learning DA only fire takes a lot of pratice!
I bought both revolvers with DA shooting in mind.
I wanted the reliability of the revolver and the proven track record of the .38 Special deserves consideration in a self-defense gun.
I think that with enough money thrown at it you can smooth any trigger up but when you comprimise safety for lightness you have gone too far.
The great Ed McGivern shot all his records with stock revolvers and noone can question their outcome!
Now you aren't going to get that fast or accurate generally speaking but you can get pretty good with what ther factory assembled. It's all about pratice.
I have been at this DA thing for only about 6 months but already I can see a lot of improvement since I am settleing down with the guns. The "new gun shakes' have worn off and now I have gotten down to just shooting anf trying to improve myself. I have a LONG wsy to go!
JMHO,
BPDave

Deaf Smith
October 2, 2013, 02:27 PM
sight radius makes 2" barrels hard to shoot. The trigger pulls seems about the same to me, to busy watching the sights

Yes but it puts that front sight near my eyes and thus I see it better.

For some reason I shoot short barrel guns better than long ones.

2 1/2 Combat Magnum, first SA, at 25 years (S&W SA triggers are real good) gives me easy head shots. Same type of gun from a 6 inch barrel does not.

Hence 4 inch or shorter are my preferred guns. These are some of them

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=179089&d=1359948436

Deaf

chriske
October 3, 2013, 08:40 AM
In my experience, J-frame trigger actions smooth out with use just as well as K-frame ones.

Why not kill 2 birds with 1 stone and use a S&W mod 63 exclusively for a couple of months.
You'll get to thoroughly know it, get pretty darn good with it and it'll get a nice trigger job in the process.
You may even end up loving it.

Don't underestimate the J-frames: they are vrey strong for their size and their mechanical accuracy is no less than that of any other S&W, regardless of frame size or barrel length.

Because of their smaller grip size, shorter sight radius & lighter weight they are admittedly harder to master than K- of L-framed revolvers.
They just demand more from their shooters, is all. But they are worth the effort.

Hondo 60
October 4, 2013, 10:33 AM
In my experience, you cannot get a trigger on a J frame to be as smooth and light as you can with a larger gun

I've had a few J-frames & it's been my experience that their triggers are not as good as my K-frames.

I think the weight difference has a lot to do with it.

But having said that, I carry a J everyday.

If you enjoyed reading about "J frame VS K frame trigger quality." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!