Aaaarrrrrghhh I'm tired of Remington's poor QC


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horsemen61
October 1, 2013, 10:43 AM
Alright guys so I'm at work yes I work at Walmart and I went back to the gun counter and I spy a new Remington 700 sps 308 tactical 18 inch barrel and so I'm thinking maybe I need a new 308. So I ask to see it and when I opened the bolt I was horrified to find this in the bolt :what: :what: :what: !!!!!!
There was so much filth in it I was ashamed that we were trying to sell it.
I am fed up with the QC at Remington :fire: :banghead:

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Reloadron
October 1, 2013, 10:53 AM
There seems to be a lot of that going around and it isn't just limited to Remington.

Check out this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=679192).

Also this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=587796).

Also a Google of "dirty bolt on new rifles" will bring up plenty of other reads on the subject. Beats the heck out of me why this is happening to the extent that it is.

Ron

horsemen61
October 1, 2013, 10:57 AM
I just don't see why or how the QC has gotten so bad.

Creature
October 1, 2013, 11:03 AM
Are you sure that the bolt was shipped from the manufacturer dirty?

mdauben
October 1, 2013, 11:21 AM
I just don't see why or how the QC has gotten so bad.
Cough-Cerberus Capital Management-Cough! :rolleyes:

horsemen61
October 1, 2013, 11:30 AM
Yes I am sure the gun was shipped that way we do not return guns since 2007 so yes I am sure it was shipped that way the barrel is also very filthy.

Creature
October 1, 2013, 12:47 PM
I am in retail. I have seen how a LOT of product leaves the manufacturer clean and, after only a short time, is extremely dirty after shipping, receiving and eventual pack down. There are many factors involved that could be to blame.

Jackal
October 1, 2013, 12:59 PM
I for one have noticed most new guns nowadays ship with fouled barrels and dirty actions. They test fire, then do not clean.

horsemen61
October 1, 2013, 01:17 PM
I agree with jackal I believe this gun was test fired and never cleaned.

Gordon
October 1, 2013, 10:07 PM
I can see Remington trying to survive the bite of the three headed dog on one side and Wallyworld cheapo wholesale price they expect from volume; the bean counter answer was to not clean Wallyworld's gun after testfire and give them the rougher looking ones . :evil::D:neener:

Coal Dragger
October 1, 2013, 10:15 PM
This is why I spend the extra $$$ and get nicer guns from outfits that take more time to do it right. Neither of my Coopers came out of the box filthy, and they sure as hell had been test fired too. It doesn't take a lot of effort to run a bore snake with some CLP on it down the pipe before boxing up to ship.... That's really all I ask.

MinnesotaFats
October 1, 2013, 10:26 PM
not wally worlds fault. a rem 700 is a rem 700 no matter what store you buy it from. they dont send defective or lesser 700's to walmart for a cheaper price tag. just throwin that out there.

Kp321
October 1, 2013, 10:33 PM
A few years ago, a fellow dealer received a Henry Golden Boy fully loaded with ammo. He talked to Henry management and received an apology. I notice that Henry now has a tag on their rifles saying to check for ammo in the gun! Is that improved QC? Or a cya move?

HKGuns
October 1, 2013, 10:34 PM
What took so long? They've been turning out a lot of junk for years as far as I can tell. They've been resting on their laurels for so long they forgot what innovation and selling based on quality and innovation even means.

There is not a lot of hope of them getting it back any time soon under their current ownership.

I own a lot of rifles and pistols and shotguns. You know how many Remington's I own?



ZERO.

Why do you ask? Because of their reputation for poor quality and the more innovative features of their competitors.

JeffDilla
October 1, 2013, 10:40 PM
I've recently had several poor experiences with Remington's quality control and particularly their customer service. They've lost a customer out of me and I was sure to let them know it.

Fishbed77
October 1, 2013, 10:54 PM
Cerberus has definitely squandered away the once proud Remington name.

I have a 1993 production 11-87 Premiere that is a beautifully crafted and utterly reliable shotgun that I will never part with.

But I won't even consider a single Remington product made today. Almost everything they make today is overpriced and poorly-finished junk IMHO. My brother bought an 870 the other year that wouldn't extract shells because of a undersized chamber. Seriously? An unreliable pump shotgun? That they made just fine for the previous 50 years? Not an isolated case either. A friend's 870 Tactical froze up with a live shell in the chamber that would not eject and required the whole gun be torn down. And this was his primary home defense gun. Glad to know it could have just as well failed him in a life or death situation.

And since we are in the rifle forum, don't get me started on the overpriced low-quality abominations from sister companies DPMS and Bushmaster.

.

Coal Dragger
October 1, 2013, 11:25 PM
Winchester is making a pretty nice rifle these days in their new Model 70. Sure they cost a bit more, but the guns are better than at any time in the history of Winchester. Why bother with Remington in that case?

If you can spend more money and want a US made rifle, I can heartily recommend a Cooper but they don't come cheap.

Ruger appears to be making a nice rifle now that they are making their own barrels.

Savage makes a good stick.

Again why bother with Remington?

Gunnerboy
October 2, 2013, 01:31 AM
I work at a gun shop and we got a ruger sr22p in the other day that was missing the trigger.... yet it contained a test fire case? haha yeah good luck figuring that out luckily ruger just sent us a new one no complaints or argument.

Fishbed77
October 2, 2013, 10:40 AM
Winchester is making a pretty nice rifle these days in their new Model 70. Sure they cost a bit more, but the guns are better than at any time in the history of Winchester.

Unfortunately, just as soon as Winchester got up and running building these excellent new Model 70s at the FN factory in South Carolina, they've decided to move production overseas.

What a bone-headed move on FN/Winchester's part. Now there's no telling what kind of quality we're going to be getting from here on out.

Fishbed77
October 2, 2013, 10:48 AM
Want another great example of Cerberus/Remington/Bushmaster/DPMS Quality control?

Check out this great image of a new in-the-box Bushmaster opened up at a gun store:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/01/etu8y2a5.jpg


And here's the thread at M4Carbine.net:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=139658

Of course, it goes without saying that this also illustrates the perils of using a polymer receiver on an AR-15 pattern rifle.

Riomouse911
October 2, 2013, 01:11 PM
It's the corporate way: buy up a company, drive the company into the ground while maximizing profit, dump company.

They don't give a rats behind about "quality and service creates brand loyalty" mantra that used to be a staple of US gunmakers; it's all about the quick Benjamins. Once the brand tanks, POOF! we're outta here.

This goes for Marlin as well, another victim of the "Freedom group" buyup.

twofifty
October 2, 2013, 01:24 PM
Kinda like a corporate mugging.

HOOfan_1
October 2, 2013, 02:06 PM
This is why I spend the extra $$$ and get nicer guns from outfits that take more time to do it right. Neither of my Coopers came out of the box filthy, and they sure as hell had been test fired too. It doesn't take a lot of effort to run a bore snake with some CLP on it down the pipe before boxing up to ship.... That's really all I ask.

Didn't you have an issue with one of your Coopers and a poorly cut crown, or sand blasting that damaged the muzzle?

Unfortunately, just as soon as Winchester got up and running building these excellent new Model 70s at the FN factory in South Carolina, they've decided to move production overseas.

What a bone-headed move on FN/Winchester's part. Now there's no telling what kind of quality we're going to be getting from here on out.

Got a link? Where are they going?

Edit: Found it......Portugal. Hi-Power is assembled there so might not be too bad. I am no corporate wiz, but I just don't see how this saves them money.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/01/06/winchester-to-move-model-70-production-to-portugal-in-2013/

Wish I bought that Super Grade I wanted to buy several years ago.

horsemen61
October 2, 2013, 07:35 PM
It just make me sad because I was a big fan of Remington at one time :(

Reloadron
October 2, 2013, 08:05 PM
It just make me sad because I was a big fan of Remington at one time :(
I am still a big fan of Remington, I have no problem buying Remington products made 20 years or more ago. The same is true of S&W, Colt, Ruger, Savage and the list goes on. There was a time when US Gun Manufacturers actually cared about their products and used skilled US labor to make those products. Those days are long gone unfortunately.

Ron

Fishbed77
October 2, 2013, 08:48 PM
There was a time when US Gun Manufacturers actually cared about their products and used skilled US labor to make those products. Those days are long gone unfortunately.

There are still some US gun companies that care about their products. Colt, for example is making some of the best pistols and rifles in their entire history these days. As mentioned earlier, the Winchester rifles currently being produced by FN in South Carolina are excellent.

It's just that those companies are so few and far between these days.

mrbig381
October 2, 2013, 08:49 PM
Quality control has suffered by many manufactures. I do have to give Remington's repair and customer service thumbs up. I sent back a model 7 for bolt repair. They gave me a new bolt and shipped it back to me no charge.

HKGuns
October 2, 2013, 11:52 PM
There are still some US gun companies that care about their products. Colt, for example is making some of the best pistols and rifles in their entire history these days. As mentioned earlier, the Winchester rifles currently being produced by FN in South Carolina are excellent.

It's just that those companies are so few and far between these days.

I won't say Colt doesn't make good products, but I will ask you when you last saw any real innovation from them......it isn't hard to crank out M16's, M4's and various AR's that are nearly identical to their Military offerings. How many polymer Colt designed pistols are on the market? How many revolvers are they producing? There is very little going on at Colt these days.......they are even losing Military contracts. American companies have gotten lazy, complacent and overly risk averse.

Fishbed77
October 3, 2013, 12:28 AM
I won't say Colt doesn't make good products, but I will ask you when you last saw any real innovation from them......it isn't hard to crank out M16's, M4's and various AR's that are nearly identical to their Military offerings.

Colt's innovation isn't coming in the form of new products (with the exception of some niche products like the LE901), but it is coming in the form of manufacturing technology. Their combination of new high-tech CNC milling with a skilled workforce and a higher degree of hand-fitting than most mass-production firearms companies seems to be paying dividends for them.

B!ngo
October 3, 2013, 02:21 AM
Colt's innovation isn't coming in the form of new products (with the exception of some niche products like the LE901), but it is coming in the form of manufacturing technology. Their combination of new high-tech CNC milling with a skilled workforce and a higher degree of hand-fitting than most mass-production firearms companies seems to be paying dividends for them.
It may be paying dividends for them, but that doesn't excite the customer. Even if it allows them to lower their price. Which they don't.
When I was searching for a .308 bolt rifle two years back, I surveyed the U.S. manufacturers and they all had questionable quality reputations and/or they were boring. I bought a Tikka Sporter and haven't looked back. I doubt I'd buy anything else but a Tikka in that price point in the future.
Now semi-custom long-range (read sniper style) rifles is another thing. New/young companies that are innovating all over the place here in the U.S. is inspiring. I hope to have the funds and be able to cost-justify the purchase of one some day just to see, hold and shoot some really innovative machines.
B

Fishbed77
October 3, 2013, 09:55 AM
It may be paying dividends for them, but that doesn't excite the customer

...and yet Colt manages to sell every single pistol they make, and their carbines remain highly desirable.

Anyway, back to the topic of Remington.

Kachok
October 3, 2013, 11:29 AM
I have been saying for some years that Remington was going downhill, my first defect I chalked up to a fluke, I got my money back out of it so I was not griping, but then in 2009 I bought another 700 and this one was a total loss, then my brother wasted $700 on a brand new R1 which was the biggest POS 1911 I have ever seen, then my friend bought a 700SPS 308 that was almost as bad. Truth be told I would be surprised to see a new Remington that did not have some kind of defect, it has been some years since I have seen one work properly.

Temp430
October 3, 2013, 01:08 PM
I have no idea how that new bolt could be so dirty. It has never happened to me but could that be from a blown primer? Maybe on the proofing round?

I have a couple Rem 700s most recent was purchased in 2001. Both are excellent rifles. What kind of problems are you finding with new 700s? I'll be sure to look over carefully any new Remington I purchase.

Uncle Mike
October 3, 2013, 04:57 PM
It's happening to a lot of the U.S. manufacturers, with corporate downsizing and cutbacks and the somewhat disgruntle attitude of employees who have had salary and benefit reductions, what can be expected.

The European firearms manufacturers seem to be turning out better product nowdays.

Clean that rifle and shoot it, you never know, it may be a real performer.

x_wrench
October 3, 2013, 05:17 PM
It's the corporate way: buy up a company, drive the company into the ground while maximizing profit, dump company. isn't that the sad truth. the old America is no more. it was sold out in colleges to the management students. they have been taught to maximize profits, no matter the cost. the old America was built by entrepreneurs & innovators. not corporations. they made damn well sure that quality was as good as possible, because their name was on the product. show me something with the persons name on it who made it, and i will buy it over corporate built products any time i can afford it. a family owned business will have three times as many quality checks as a big corporation. what the decline of America really is about, is the decline of the American FAMILY.

BSA1
October 3, 2013, 05:31 PM
On the other hand not cleaning the gun stops discussion threads about why they don't test fire their guns before they leave the factory,

Kachok
October 3, 2013, 05:38 PM
Well they did not test fire my 700 CDL 7mm Rem Mag before it left the factory, I know because it would not chamber a round AT ALL.

JustinJ
October 3, 2013, 07:23 PM
The last new DPMS .308 AR bolt I saw made the century arms monkeys look like high end craftsman. In addition to numerous and very rough tool marks, the bolt would bind when rotated inside the carrier. It was unable to eject a single round fired.

HOOfan_1
October 3, 2013, 09:46 PM
On the other hand not cleaning the gun stops discussion threads about why they don't test fire their guns before they leave the factory,

All the S&W M&Ps I have looked at were obviously not cleaned after test shots

DRYHUMOR
October 4, 2013, 06:31 AM
I think they seem to have minor issues, some more than others.

I look at older Remmies if I'm in the market, and, would by one sight unseen except for pics.

The newer ones just look cheap...........I'd have to look it over in person if I was considering a newer one.

M70s built in Portugal. I wouldn't have a problem with that, many Brownings are stamped Portugal.

I believe they (FN) are prob moving for a couple of reasons, labor and benefits are cheaper there. It also allows more square footage to be devoted to the LE and military weapons lines that FN manufactures.

Recently I wanted a 17 HMR. The Savage BSEV caught my eye. Looked at one in a big box store and noticed the crown was not cut squarely to the end of the barrel. There was also a pretty nice scratch that was a bit too deep to have worked out, going across the side of the muzzle face. I passed on it.............

Davek1977
October 4, 2013, 07:19 AM
A few years ago, a fellow dealer received a Henry Golden Boy fully loaded with ammo.

If it was a .22, he got LUCKY to have ammo included! ;) Might have been the only 22 LR in the whole store!

Uncle Mike
October 4, 2013, 10:35 AM
If it was a .22, he got LUCKY to have ammo included! Might have been the only 22 LR in the whole store!

Ah-men brother...that's funny!:)
We have sold some 22lr for more than centerfire ammo...what is the world coming to?

Kachok
October 4, 2013, 10:50 AM
M70s built in Portugal. I wouldn't have a problem with that, many Brownings are stamped Portugal.

I believe they (FN) are prob moving for a couple of reasons, labor and benefits are cheaper there. It also allows more square footage to be devoted to the LE and military weapons lines that FN manufactures.
Last I checked Winchester builds the 70 in South Carolina. That is where mine is from. My Browning is from Japan for what it is worth, both are recent production rifles.

1858
October 4, 2013, 11:11 AM
I have two M70 EWs made in the US but wouldn't have a problem if they were made in Portugal. Bergara barrels are made in Spain and the Europeans have a much longer history of making quality firearms compared to the US. Since when was the US the gold standard of manufacturing anyway?

As for Remington, the only reason I don't buy Remington rifles or pistols is that I prefer Winchester and Kimber for hunting rifles, Accuracy International for tactical rifles, POF for ARs and Ed Brown for 1911s. I don't have any major concerns regarding their current build quality and have shot a number of recent models with no issues and very good accuracy.

HOOfan_1
October 4, 2013, 11:34 AM
Last I checked Winchester builds the 70 in South Carolina. That is where mine is from. My Browning is from Japan for what it is worth, both are recent production rifles.

I linked a blog posting earlier, said that FN confirmed on their facebook page that the parts would be made in the US and shipped to Portugal for assembly. Kind of like the Hi-Powers are assembled in Portugal

lovethosesooners
October 4, 2013, 02:50 PM
I'll have to take up for Remington-I have a 20 yr old 1100, but also have 5 others I've bought new over the past 3 yrs

Of these, the only issue I had was I got one of the early production Versa Max shotguns-it had a crooked rail on it.

Returned it to Rem and they jumped through hoops to correct it-I have several other brands of shotguns and this one is my favorite-excellent shotgun

Have been totally satisfied with the 700CDL, 750, R25, and 870....enough so that the next rifle will be a 700 BDL

I have an FN product that's being shipped back for repair today-happens to every single mfr that makes guns....can understand a persons frustration by having issues with any mfrs product, but my experiences along with others that I know with recently purchased Rem product have been much different than what I just read-pretty certain that a very high % of peoples experiences are like mine rather than what's above -most happy custrs simply don't take the time to post about getting what they should expect, but those that have had bad experiences are anxious to vent....as many as Rem produces, a small % of bad product is still a bunch of guns and offers chance for many negative posts

DRYHUMOR
October 4, 2013, 04:57 PM
I linked a blog posting earlier, said that FN confirmed on their facebook page that the parts would be made in the US and shipped to Portugal for assembly. Kind of like the Hi-Powers are assembled in Portugal

Maybe the info I had was wrong, several months ago 2 different guys that work at FN in Columbia had told me they would be "made" in Portugal. I figured "made" meant the whole shebang....

PJSprog
October 4, 2013, 06:10 PM
Savage makes a good stick.
They sure do. I own two of their rimfires, both excellent shooters for not a lot of money. However, the last one I bought - a model 93G in .22WMR - had rust on the barrel where the serial number was stamped into it. It, too, was new-in-box, ordered through my small LGS.

Incidentally, the first one was a MarkII-G bought at WallyWorld back in the 90s, and was clean as a whistle.

jogar80
October 4, 2013, 06:23 PM
I have bought several new Remington bolt action rifles in the past couple of years. Been happy with every single one of them.

CharlieDeltaJuliet
October 4, 2013, 10:49 PM
While I have had great luck out of the newer Remington's , I have also seen a few duds. I don't think it is limited. I have seen issues from Kel-Tec, Beretta, and a couple others. It is the sad part of our nation and the crap hole it has became. Nobody takes pride in their jobs anymore.

Coal Dragger
October 5, 2013, 12:41 AM
HoOfan,

Yes I did on my .280 AI. They fixed it no problem. I was pretty ticked at the time, but it came back shooting like a champ and they turned it around faster than expected. My 2nd one (.22LR) has been flawless.

Uncle Mike
October 5, 2013, 04:01 PM
Nobody takes pride in their jobs anymore.


Well, I guess a corporation has to 'buy' prideful workers. If the company does not want to 'pay' for good workers, then good work, the company will not get!

CharlieDeltaJuliet
October 5, 2013, 04:28 PM
You are exactly right Uncle Mike, people in this nation are more and more selfish and think they are entitled to things. There are a few manufactures that I trust to ensure their equipment is what it is promised but some still slip through their cracks. But Sig, Hk, FNH, and a couple others have earned my respect. Usually the premium is higher for that, but my experience with these companies and their customer support has been phenomenal.

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