Anybody ever shot a Glock or SA XD underwater?


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Mulliga
March 24, 2004, 11:14 PM
I've heard that these guns are capable of firing underwater, albeit with obviously limited range. Anyone ever do this? Could be useful when the SHTF (shark hits the fan). :D

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tc300mag1
March 24, 2004, 11:22 PM
never have and dont want to anygun will fire underwater 1911 hk even a revolver but ill pass as the concussion alone can do serious internal damage from what i have read

Quintin Likely
March 25, 2004, 12:00 AM
I've never tried it, but from what I've read, I think it ranks in the "bad ideas" file. Something along the lines of blowing your gun up and/or seriously injuring yourself. There's a handful of parts you can install in a Glock 17 that'll make it underwater okay, but again, I've never seen or tried doing so myself.

Benjamin
March 25, 2004, 12:27 AM
Quintin -- the parts you refer to are glock maritime spring cups. They're two little plastic bits about the size of a grain of rice. Paperwork included with them stated, IIRC, that they're to ensure the proper function of the firing pin underwater for successive shots.

The story goes that a stock glock 17 will fire underwater without damage, provided it is done properly. 'Properly' in this case means ensuring the barrel is completely full of water, using only FMJ ammo, and probably a few other things that escape my memory.

However, like everyone else, I have not attempted to fire any glock or any other firearm under water.

DJCharlie
March 25, 2004, 12:38 AM
May I ask why would you need to shoot underwater away. Does SHTF underwater a lot to you or what? :scrutiny:

joab
March 25, 2004, 01:09 AM
The old ad for Randall 1911s had a guy wearing snorkleing gear firing one in a swimming pool. I've never tried it with mine, just can't think of a good reason to.

Andrew Wyatt
March 25, 2004, 01:21 AM
1911s go bang repeatedly underwater with no ill effects.

don't ask me how i know.

arinvolvo
March 25, 2004, 03:23 AM
An underwater 9mm will not travel far, or do much damage...

Try firing one into a 5 gallon water jug...it wont go far.

zpo
March 25, 2004, 05:40 AM
The reason to fire a gun underwater is the same one that "bump sticks" were invented. Shark protection.

arinvolvo
March 25, 2004, 05:47 AM
if you need a bang stick, get a bang stick...i did..

Have only used it against a sheepshead fish...and it was plenty effective...mine takes a 223 though.
The expanding gasses puff it up like a baloon..and it more or less explodes.

TBeck
March 25, 2004, 09:05 AM
Are bangsticks considered firearams by ATF? I don't think I've ever seen one for sale.

Benjamin
March 25, 2004, 12:35 PM
Bangsticks are not firearms.

This info came from a NAUI cert. SCUBA instructor with 28 years under his belt, who is also a FFL and active shooter.

Bang sticks work about as well with just blanks, from what he says. It's the gas, not the lead, that does the real work.

arinvolvo
March 25, 2004, 03:41 PM
I can believe the blank thing...When i "tested" mine...it seemed like the little bullet hole was the least of its worries....the fact that it damn near split in half from the gasses was more important.

WonderNine
March 25, 2004, 04:12 PM
Hey I'd rather use a Glock on a shark than let a shark get close enough to use a bangstick. It's probably already too late then. I'll bet a 9mm FMJ has a little bit of energy at close range underwater. Probably at least enough to scare something off.

Something like an FN Five-Seven might even be the best idea as the water shouldn't have as much drag on it as other rounds.

zpo
March 25, 2004, 04:26 PM
As far as I know, any gun will work underwater if it has fmj rounds and is completely submerged. I don't know if any have a useful range on them, or if it is multiple shot, contact only. Some sticks I've seen were 3-4 foot, so that could be an advantage if its contact only, (seems the case, with the gas comments).

arinvolvo
March 25, 2004, 05:13 PM
a bang stick should be on the end of a pole spear...and i have a few pole spears that are 10 feet or more in length...i think that is farther than a 9mm would be effective for.

No4Mk1*
March 25, 2004, 05:44 PM
A 40 mm colum of water with a diameter of 9mm has a volume of 2.547mL. Thus it's mass is 2.547 grams, and it would have a weight of 39.4 grains.
So if you put that in front of a 124 grain bullet you now have an effective weight of 163 grains in front of the same powder charge. Might be overpressure. The effective range would probably be about one foot.

WonderNine
March 25, 2004, 06:03 PM
163 grains in front of the same powder charge. Might be overpressure. The effective range would probably be about one foot.

Argh, so every 40mm's or so of distance would do that..... yea doesn't sound like the range would be very far than. I guess you're probably best off using underwater harpoons or bangsticks.

Gordon
March 25, 2004, 08:12 PM
I have shot 1911's with ball in a pool! My head was just out of the water and from 15 feet it dented 3/4 plywood deeply. Blew a hole thru it at 4 feet!. This was in the late 70's when I hung with wild drinking LEO's and was a crazy stunt. Another guy fired a .357 4" model 66 submerged about 3 feet under and it blew water out of the surface and we stopped the experiment. Yes pressure does seem to have an exaggerated effect under water. Bullet mass counts. BTW handgun rounds fired into the water from steep angles would hurt pretty bad up to 6 feet or so. :cool:

spacemanspiff
March 25, 2004, 09:09 PM
how loud was the 1911 when shot underwater? with your head out of water, did you need/use hearing protection?

i should probably get a lanyard before trying any of my own experments out in the open water, huh?

PO2Hammer
March 25, 2004, 11:44 PM
How about in outer space?

Kobun
March 26, 2004, 01:03 AM
Does SHTF underwater a lot to you or what?
A more correct trem would be SHTP.

S.hit Hit The Propeller.

Although, a rope in the propeller would be a bigger problem. :neener:

Clean97GTI
March 26, 2004, 04:55 AM
Wasn't that loud with your head out of water. Don't stick your head under unless you've got hearing protection though. The water amplifies the sound quite a bit. I'll try and find pictures of what happened to a a guy (and his gun) when he fired a JHP round out of his Glock under water. Not pretty, came away with a handful of shredded plastic and some nasty cuts.

zpo
March 26, 2004, 03:54 PM
Needless technical correction: Water doesn't amplify sound, it transmits it 4 times more efficiently.(sp?)

Red_SC
March 26, 2004, 04:23 PM
How about in outer space?
I'd think a gun would function normally. Gunpowder contains it's own oxygen, so that wouldn't be a problem. But, air resistance wouldn't slow your bullet down! Just gravity from distant planets, etc. You'd have to depressurize your ammo, though, to keep the air from pushing the bullet out of the case when you get into space.


When ya gonna try it?

Grump
March 26, 2004, 07:16 PM
Sea level air pressure is 14.7 PSI, IIRC. Calculate your square inches of bore and multiply that decimal my 14.7 to see how little the air pressure will push the bullet. Only the most poorly-loaded ammo will have bullet creep in a vacuum (at least until it all leaks out--except for waterproof stuff).

There's a sentry removal tactic using underwater firing, but I prefer to not publish it. I think of maritime cups as being not so much for something hitting the fan, but for when I want the stuff to hit someone else's fan.

PO2Hammer
March 26, 2004, 08:32 PM
So if you shot a bullet around the sun, and it went back in time, you could hit Hitler in the ass!
(light hearted sarcasm, please take no offense)

zulu00
March 26, 2004, 11:03 PM
In reference to your section on shooting a Glock underwater I would like to add a few important facts. Where did everybody get the idea that firing a gun underwater will damage your ears or organs? Firing a pistol underwater will not damage your ears or organs. I've shot 1911s years ago underwater, fully submerged. We used to kill sharks (before it was un-PC) with a device called a "bang stick", a 44 mag barrel on the end of a 6 foot long solid aluminum shaft with a sleeve to accept the barrel and a solid firing pin on one end and surgical tubing on the other end used to propel the barrel into the shark. The barrel was held in the sleeve with an "O" ring but the barrel would fly out of the sleeve when it went off (this was real neat because the case would usually fall also, making reloading easier) but was held captive to the sleeve with a steel cable. The bang stick even had a safety pin through the sleeve to prevent accidential discharge. We used nail polish to seal the primer and bullet. I once used the bang stick to blow the trunk lock off a car I found in a quarry at 60 feet deep while searching with the local PD to find a gun used in a murder. I have used bang sticks over 100 feet deep. The sound when firing a 44 mag underwater is just a dull whump, so anything fired out of a Glock would be insignificant. Believe me you have a lot better chance with a bangstick than 10 Glocks against a shark unless you want to hold the Glock barrels against the shark, no easy feat, I would rather keep the distance provided by the bangstick between me and the shark. As the NAUI instructor said the most important element was the gasses, there was also a device made by a company called Farallon that used a CO2 cartridge with a long hollow needle screwed on the CO2 cartridge, this was mounted in a sleeve on a rod similar to the bangstick, almost any solid body hit would blow the insides of the shark out of his mouth and float it up to the surface out of your way.
zulu00

robomanusa
March 27, 2004, 01:41 AM
Beco Inner Space products makes powerheads in several calibers that work really well, I have a 44magnum and 12 gauge powerhead that I use to use when i lived in Florida and did alot of scuba diving and spear fishing for large grouper and barracuda's up until they made them illegal for use. I still have them, but havent used them in over 10 years and zulu00 is right they only create a dull thud sound.

--Nick

George Hill
March 27, 2004, 01:47 AM
"I once used the bang stick to blow the trunk lock off a car"

I hear .45 Auto bangsticks work great on trunk locks too.

arinvolvo
March 27, 2004, 04:40 AM
Im thinking my 223 bang stick may have been overkill for the fish i have exploded with it.

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