Wisconsin news flash


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plodder
October 2, 2013, 10:03 AM
On October 1, 2013 it is reported that Wisconsin has issued it's 200,000th CCW (concealed carry) permit since the law enabling CCW was activated November 1 of 2011. This is 3.5% of the state population.

Contrary to the dire predictions and angst of the lefty socialists and their partners in the MSM, there has not been rampant gunplay, shootouts at high noon or blood flowing down the streets and sidewalks of suburban neighborhoods. (certain Milwaukee neighborhoods excepted, but that is not a change).

I bring you this news update because it is possible that this milestone may not be reported with vigor and emphasis in the MSM.:rolleyes:

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AppealPlay
October 2, 2013, 10:09 AM
The whole "if we have CCW it's going to be like a Wild West shoutout" argument is so ridiculous it's unbelievable. This has never materialized and, in fact, crime has decreased steadily for 20 years. I'm not saying there's a positive correlation between crime and CCW, but it certainly hasn't turned into high noon like the leftists said it would.

95XL883
October 2, 2013, 10:49 AM
I so like good news.:)

Willie Sutton
October 2, 2013, 10:52 AM
With a two digit permit number, Willie is happy in South Milwaukee :-)


Willie


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jak67429
October 2, 2013, 11:33 AM
The eau Claire NBC station had a good article on this. THe DOJ says they are still processing 1000 applications a week.

W.E.G.
October 2, 2013, 11:44 AM
This time last year, Virginia had 282,000+

hso
October 2, 2013, 11:58 AM
"...blood in the streets" has been a failed phrase since the sunset of the AWB in 2004. It has been dusted off and trotted out every time an advance in RKBA legislation is proposed or takes effect. It is just as wrong each time, but the same tired lie is told by the Antis and the ignorant in spite of the clear history of it being wrong every time it is used.

Ryanxia
October 7, 2013, 10:41 AM
That's great! I feel safer for my countrymen already. :)

henschman
October 7, 2013, 06:10 PM
Good news. I don't know how people keep getting away with the chicken little argument. How many times do we have to see that the sky isn't falling in places without restrictive laws on guns, drugs, etc. for people to realize that without such laws life goes on... just a little freer.

Vlad357
October 7, 2013, 10:44 PM
Glad to hear it. My wife and I each have low numbered permits as well! I also "had" to buy 2 new handguns as well. I just had the "nothing like what was predicted by the antis" discussion today with a guy at lunch. He did not seem happy, imagin that.

powder
October 7, 2013, 11:33 PM
Unfortunately, we now have Rep. Joel Kleefisch sponsoring legislation to limit CC on private property, while exempting former and retired LEOs. (Kleefisch is the husband of the Lt. Governor of WI.)

M1GarandDeerHunter
October 8, 2013, 03:11 AM
Wait till they see the lower crime figures..... wonder how they will explain that away? It took forever to get CC but it was greatly worth it.

Ryanxia
October 8, 2013, 09:50 AM
Hold on tight to it and don't give an INCH!

hso
October 8, 2013, 10:35 AM
What potential does Kleefisch's proposed legislation have to make it to committee or to get out of committee AND is there any official opinion as to the constitutionality of limiting carry on private property?

Willie Sutton
October 8, 2013, 06:54 PM
^^

One of his proposals is to allow off duty and former LEO's to carry into a school, whereas currently only ON DUTY LEO's are permitted to do this. While I don't like the "special citizen" status for former LEO's, I don't see the harm in permitting this.

Kleefish is highly rated by the NRA and is one of our main supporters. I think that anyone believing that he's anti in any way is misreading his proposals.



Willie

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orionengnr
October 8, 2013, 09:36 PM
... I don't see the harm in permitting this.
You already said it.
All animals are created equal...but some are more equal than others.
Remember that quote?

Willie Sutton
October 8, 2013, 09:49 PM
^
Yes, and read my qualifier above where I state that I am not in favor of special rights for anyone. But this proposal is pretty innocuous. Permitting off duty and ex-cops to carry in a school is not a huge problem to me.

The legislator we are discussing has a very long history of being pro 2nd amendment, and is well regarded both by the NRA and by his RKBA constituents. He's a good guy and an asset to our side.


The statement:


Unfortunately, we now have Rep. Joel Kleefisch sponsoring legislation to limit CC on private property, while exempting former and retired LEOs.


Is not one that is accurate in any respect.



Willie

.

hso
October 8, 2013, 11:23 PM
While I don't like the "special citizen" status for former LEO's, I don't see the harm in permitting this.
But this proposal is pretty innocuous.

The reason it might not be is that it establishes that only LE trained personnel can be trusted vs. CCW holders. That us/them aspect excludes us and grants them a status we can't get.

powder
October 8, 2013, 11:28 PM
There are several provisions in that legislation which Kleefisch stated would be removed, in his conversation with Wisconsin Carry Chairman, Nick Clark.

I'm not for counting it as a "maybe", that it might not make it to law: he outright lied about removing the provisions which are exclusive. IMHO, his NRA rating just got tanked to an F, FWIW anymore.

Willie Sutton
October 9, 2013, 07:30 AM
^^^ <Yawn>...


So with Tammy Baldwin, a true gun hater, around in Wisconsin you are lashing out at a good guy with a nearly perfect RKBA record with a NRA score in the high 90's that he's held for years, who has been a strong advocate for shall issue CCR, and state that he suddenly warrants an F with you because he *wants to let off duty cops carry firearms in schools*, legislation that might very well lead to future access to those areas for the rest of us CCW holders?

Uhh.... you really need to think things thru a bit better. You best not confuse a very good friend with an enemy. Perfect friend? Maybe not. Very good friend? You bet.


"The reason it might not be is that it establishes that only LE trained personnel can be trusted vs. CCW holders. That us/them aspect excludes us and grants them a status we can't get"


Two years ago we were in one of two states in the USA that had no provision at all for a CCW, and now we have one of the best CCW issuance progams in the nation. This legislator was one of the good guys in the fight and someone the RKBA community should be grateful to. Slow starts often lead to better things. Establish that off duty cops aren't a problem and then move on from there to others. There's about a 2 year cycle between establishing one good change and the next set of changes.



Willie

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hso
October 9, 2013, 07:53 AM
Incremental progress is an effective strategy, but it does come with risks if you don't have the momentul to make it to the next level. If there's an effective strategy in place to achieve the goal of giving everyone the same authority to carry, that's good. Just as long as it doesn't stall.

powder
October 9, 2013, 09:32 AM
So with Tammy Baldwin, a true gun hater, around in Wisconsin you are lashing out at a good guy with a nearly perfect RKBA record with a NRA score in the high 90's that he's held for years, who has been a strong advocate for shall issue CCR, and state that he suddenly warrants an F with you because he *wants to let off duty cops carry firearms in schools*, legislation that might very well lead to future access to those areas for the rest of us CCW holders?

With all due respect Mr. Sutton, you can **Yawn*** all you would like to, this is not about Tammy Baldwin.

Lashing out a blatant liar, who said he would protect our rights by eliminating language, rather than dividing us? If pointing out the truth is "lashing out", I guess you can be correct there no matter how you want to dramatically describe it or frame it with a Baldwin.

Forgive an inch of blatant lies, and they'll take a mile behind closed doors. Republican, Democrats, Independents, or Greens: a liar is still a liar.

BTW-the new Kleefisch language would allow off-duty, retired, and former LEOs to carry in those "safe-zones" without permission, while all others would be considered felons. Does that sound like a high NRA rating point to you?

Willie Sutton
October 9, 2013, 11:56 AM
^^

I find it really hard get upset with someone who has been a good friend to the RKBA community over something that I view as trivial, and which represents an incremental progression towards more rights. The proposal does not reduce our existing rights at all. I respectfully believe that it's important to make sure we see the big picture, which is that we have an *excellent* set of CCW laws on the books, and that this particular legislator has been a friend to hunters, shooters, the RKBA community, and conservative values in general for many long years.

So, with that said, I respectfully disagree. If you want to be upset, feel free, but forgive me if I do not join you. There are far worse folks to worry about. Frankly, the proposal is unlikely to reach a vote, so the question is really pretty moot. And don't forget that it was this same legislator who didn't even allow the proposals for universal background checks, magazine capacity limits, etc., to come out of his committee. He was the gatekeeper for that, and he held his ground. That's good for us.



Willie

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Ryanxia
October 9, 2013, 12:35 PM
I don't like a law that would give further special treatment to LEO's and not law abiding citizens, it should be a package deal IMO. However, it certainly isn't something to pick apart an NRA backed rep over.

Willie Sutton
October 9, 2013, 03:53 PM
^^

bingo

Willie

.

Fred in Wisc
October 9, 2013, 04:08 PM
Well said, Mr. Sutton.

I'll take a small increase in gun rights for a restricted number of people over no increase at all any day!

Just like the anti's have been nibbling away at our rights for years, taking every opportunity to take little bits wherever they can, we need to take back any little piece of territory possible. It keeps up the momentum for more and better changes later.

powder
October 10, 2013, 10:07 AM
AB 9 has a public hearing today at 10 am in the Madison Capitol, before the Criminal Justice Committee in room 300.

Here is the question to ponder please: Why did Mr. Kleefisch lie to Nik Clark, and tell him the LEO expansion/ exemption language would be removed? AB 9 pertains to school "safe zones", AND private property which is posted as being gun free by the owners.

This is not an increase in rights at all, except for retired/former LEOs in so-called safe zones, and also for posted private properties wherein a business owner does not want CCP holders with their firearms.

Please articulate how this new exemption would increase rights to law-abiding permit holders, and creates an incremental increase for those who are not former/current/retired LEOs?

I shall contact Mr. Cox at the NRA and see if he still believes Mr. Kleefisch is acting in the NRA's best interests here. I fail to see that lying to one of the leading RKBA activists in WI about legislation, is an exhibition of conservative values.

hso
October 10, 2013, 10:36 AM
The question should be whether this legislation is in the best interest if the RKBA community in WI instead of the best interest of the NRA.

Also keep in mind that this may or may not be the best that can be done right now in the WI legislature. Politics and legislation are a complicated and messy business. Often you hope and work to get everything you want and only get part of it at one time. Sometimes you hit a hard barrier and have to shed a piece or two to get through to the goal.

I would suggest that it is in everyone's best interest to find out actually the "why" of these differences than assume some malicious betrayal since the process of legislation is so tortuous.

IBEWBULL
June 19, 2014, 12:07 AM
http://www.wiscnews.com/wisconsindellsevents/news/local/article_9ce7b745-1d20-5a5e-81f4-dc79ef6bacd1.html

Concealed carry in party platform.

Read for yourself on link.

plodder
June 19, 2014, 06:22 PM
Yeah, Concealed Carry is on the WI Democratic party platform...right in the crosshairs!

And it is baffling to me why. I have heard no negative news of a CCW holder in any incidents in the past 2 years, and believe me, if there were one, it would get top billing.

hso
June 19, 2014, 11:16 PM
No one spoke against the concealed carry amendment. The voice was initially inconclusive, but after a hand count the motion failed and the banning of concealed carry remained part of the platform.

Let's be clear for the other members. The WI Democratic Party officially wants to ban concealed carry.

Willie Sutton
June 20, 2014, 11:07 AM
Nothing new about that, it's been in the platform for years.

Also noting that there is about a zero chance to have the existing law here changed, so it's all back to simple political theater.


Willie

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Old Fuff
June 20, 2014, 01:49 PM
And it is baffling to me why. I have heard no negative news of a CCW holder in any incidents in the past 2 years, and believe me, if there were one, it would get top billing.

As elsewhere, the party is urban-centric and gun control is part of their core beliefs. It's unlikely this will change unless it costs them serious losses at election time. But even this may not cause any changes because way down deep these people "know they are right!" End of discussion.

Incidentally, the reason they didn't try to pass gun control measures that went through in New York and Colorado last year is because the party leadership in the legislature made a compromise to put another issue in front of it, and gun control on the back burner. This year things may, or may not, go the same way. :uhoh:

plodder
June 20, 2014, 04:54 PM
Quote from Old Fuff:
Incidentally, the reason they didn't try to pass gun control measures that went through in New York and Colorado last year is because the party leadership in the legislature made a compromise to put another issue in front of it, and gun control on the back burner. This year things may, or may not, go the same way. ?????
The WI state Assembly, Senate and Governor's office are all Republican controlled. Even though some of the socialist/lefties in office were talking gun control last year, nothing even got a hearing in the Assembly or Senate in WI.

Old Fuff
June 20, 2014, 07:45 PM
Oh Oh....

The Old Fuff needs to go back and check his research. I thought it was Wisconsin, but it must obviously be another state in that general area.

Sorry about that. :o

Willie Sutton
June 21, 2014, 09:12 AM
^^ But this is essentially correct here:

"As elsewhere, the party is urban-centric and gun control is part of their core beliefs"


In Wisconsin, the Dems have majorities in the southeast corner (Milwaukee down to Racine and Kenosha, the "Urban Corridor" if you want to call it that, since it's the only urban area that I've ever been in that's dominated by cows), and in Madison (University and Government Center). Other than those areas it's all pretty conservative. Even in the Milwaukee-Kenosha corridor it's very stratified, with pockets of city and university "progressives", fully surrounded suburban conseratives. It's one of the few places in the USA where proud flag-flying union members working in our still vibrant manufacturing industries (Think Harley Davidson, Caterpillar, Allen-Bradley, Evinrude, Milwaukee Electric Tools, etc) vote Republican, a position that matches their properly conservative traditional values, (as opposed to the public employee union members who would never dream of anything other than more "progress" towards being paid to do nothing). Remember also that the Dems let a recent recall vote against our Governer Walker, for telling the public employee unions to shove off, that failed.

It's a very interesting state to live in.

Exutive summary: The chance of any real changes to the existing laws is pretty remote.


Willie

.

RussellC
June 21, 2014, 10:34 AM
Unfortunately, we now have Rep. Joel Kleefisch sponsoring legislation to limit CC on private property, while exempting former and retired LEOs. (Kleefisch is the husband of the Lt. Governor of WI.)
You know how to deal with this, stop patronizing those places, if enough do this he will feel the political heat in due time.

Willie Sutton
June 22, 2014, 09:50 AM
^^ Schools?

You do understand that this (which was a YEAR ago) was a debate about allowing off duty cops to carry in schools, right?

You want us to stop patronizing schools? Hmmm...


Willie

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CNobbe
June 22, 2014, 12:05 PM
Ya know what I'd really like for WI to do...

Allow CCW holders to be able to purchase a handgun without the pointless 48 hour wait. NICS check would be fine.

What's the deal with the 48 hours?

Old Fuff
June 22, 2014, 12:12 PM
What's the deal with the 48 hours?

The folks on the other side believe that if a mad dog/crazy killer who is out to buy a gun has to wait (in this case 48 hours) before they can take delivery they'll cool down and forget whatever they intended too do.

Of course it seldom or ever works that way... :rolleyes:

Vern Humphrey
June 22, 2014, 05:09 PM
As elsewhere, the party is urban-centric and gun control is part of their core beliefs. It's unlikely this will change unless it costs them serious losses at election time. But even this may not cause any changes because way down deep these people "know they are right!" End of discussion.
It's up to the people of Wisconsin to make sure it costs them serious losses at election time. And then if it doesn't change their minds, it doesn't matter, because they'll be out of office and out of power.

But it takes work and commitment to defeat liberals.

C0untZer0
June 22, 2014, 10:44 PM
What amazes me is that they aren't capable of learning from what happened in Illinois.

Judge Posner made it pretty clear in Moore v Madigan:

To confine the right to be armed to the home is to divorce the Second Amendment from the right of self-defense described in Heller and McDonald. This case, like Heller and McDonald is just about self-defense.

'The Supreme Court has decided that the amendment confers a right to bear arms for self-defense, which is as important outside the home as inside.

What does it mean to bear arms if there's no right to carry arms in a public place?

You don't bear arms in your house, you don't march around with a gun over your shoulder right?

Willie Sutton
June 22, 2014, 11:54 PM
"What amazes me is that they aren't capable of learning from what happened in Illinois."

^^^ Uhh.... we have shall-issue with one of the highest per capita CCW issuance rates in the nation. So what are you amazed about?



"But it takes work and commitment to defeat liberals."

We have a conservative and escellent Republican Governer in Scott Walker who won a recall vote that was put forward after he decertified the public employee unions, as well as a Republican Majority Senate and House. Our side already runs the place..... so who cares what's on their (losing) platform?


Willie

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hso
June 23, 2014, 01:26 AM
It is important to move any party off of anti firearms owner agendas. Wresting control away from antis and making their agenda only part of fringe parties helps mainstream our position further and prevents it from becoming "owned" by any main party with other agendas that people can't support.

CNobbe
June 23, 2014, 03:25 PM
That's kinda what I figured. I imagine despite WI (where I now unfortunately live) will hold off from introducing changes to firearm purchases with the November elections. I think it's going to be an ugly campaign for both sides.

Vern Humphrey
June 23, 2014, 04:57 PM
We have a conservative and escellent Republican Governer in Scott Walker who won a recall vote that was put forward after he decertified the public employee unions, as well as a Republican Majority Senate and House. Our side already runs the place..... so who cares what's on their (losing) platform?
This shows liberalism at its worst -- instead of reading the tea leaves and moderating their strident demands, they get louder and more shrill.

Old Fuff
June 23, 2014, 06:20 PM
This shows liberalism at its worst -- instead of reading the tea leaves and moderating their strident demands, they get louder and more shrill.

Of course. Because they know they are right, and keep telling anyone who will listen. :rolleyes:

Vern Humphrey
June 23, 2014, 06:33 PM
Of course. Because they know they are right, and keep telling anyone who will listen.
To quote James Lee Burke, "They are narcissists and believe reality must conform to whatever they say it is."

230RN
June 24, 2014, 02:19 AM
They seem to have made good use of the squeaking wheel theory.

bigfatdave
June 24, 2014, 09:04 AM
Anyone have updated numbers on permits issued?

I did a quick search, if the WI AG is publishing stats, it isn't as easy to find as OH numbers.

ugaarguy
June 24, 2014, 07:21 PM
Anyone have updated numbers on permits issued?
That would be good to know, particularly with the WI Dem Party officially stating they want to ban CC as part of their official platform for the upcoming elections this fall.

M1GarandDeerHunter
June 24, 2014, 10:04 PM
None of this stands a chance or has a prayer, if we vote out the individuals that think this is good stuff. Most politicians know this is a poison pill to touch. Numbers speak for themselves.

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