Possible powders used?


PDA






Kuyong_Chuin
October 2, 2013, 12:48 PM
My brother had some 44 mag reloads made for him but didn't know what powder was used but the powder company being Hodgdon, and I was trying to figure out what the powder used might be. The factory Hornady 180 grain XTP rounds has some kick to them. The reloads kick less than a light loaded 38 special. I weighed the empty cases and they average 120 grains each with the bullets weighing 180 grains + or - 0.01. The loaded rounds weigh 315 grains even on average. That give about 15 grains of powder in each shell. I am thinking it is probably HS6 powder but since I am new to all this I thought I would ask if there are any others that it might be.

If you enjoyed reading about "Possible powders used?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Arkansas Paul
October 2, 2013, 12:50 PM
Trail Boss maybe if they're loaded to shoot that soft.

Weighing the loaded rounds will not give you an accurate estimate of how much powder is in the case. There are too many variables. All pieces of brass aren't a consistent weight/thickness.

Kuyong_Chuin
October 2, 2013, 01:10 PM
Yeah I know, but without a way to pull the bullet safely right now that is the closest way I have to finding out the load. I can not even use my press right now because I can't get to the bench. Dad not only has the work bench buried but has a tool chest, a wooden book shelf, and a 70 horse mercury power ski outboard motor sitting in front of it right now.

quaid
October 2, 2013, 04:01 PM
Trail boss has a distinct donut shape. You could possibly narrow it down some based on shape of powder kernel.

Personally? I would tear them down. 44 mag that feels like 38spl is a bad load. I wouldn't waste the bullets.

Buck13
October 2, 2013, 04:32 PM
What are you shooting them out of, and what .38 gun are you comparing this to? A 180 gr bullet could be going at a respectable velocity out of a 3 pound Redhawk and not feel like much.

Arkansas Paul
October 2, 2013, 04:38 PM
44 mag that feels like 38spl is a bad load. I wouldn't waste the bullets.

Not necessarily. I've loaded up some powder puff .45 Colt loads for the wife to shoot and they were loads of fun. It could be easily duplicated with a .44 mag.
Of course, I cast the bullets so cost is minimal.

Walkalong
October 2, 2013, 06:07 PM
without a way to pull the bullet safely
Place a round in the press and pull the bullet (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=108270&stc=1&d=1256999241) out with pliers or something similar.

Kuyong_Chuin
October 2, 2013, 07:31 PM
Place a round in the press and pull the bullet (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=108270&stc=1&d=1256999241) out with pliers or something similar.
I thought of that already but Dad has my bench buried and I can't even get to my press right now which sucks, I want to reload some shells and can't.

What are you shooting them out of, and what .38 gun are you comparing this to? A 180 gr bullet could be going at a respectable velocity out of a 3 pound Redhawk and not feel like much. The 44 is a Taurus Raging Bull Model: 444SS8 with a 8 3/8 inch barrel. The 38 was the 357 Mag Colt Python with a 6 inch barrel firing 38 specials.

ArchAngelCD
October 2, 2013, 09:59 PM
What's the reason why you're trying to figure out which powder was used? Why would you guess HS-6? There are so many powder that could be in that case from Hodgdon. You're not even sure if it's a ball powder or not.

Kuyong_Chuin
October 3, 2013, 03:37 AM
What's the reason why you're trying to figure out which powder was used? Why would you guess HS-6? There are so many powder that could be in that case from Hodgdon. You're not even sure if it's a ball powder or not.
By weight it figures out to 15 grains of powder, the only Hodgdon powder that falls in that range using the 180 grain XTP bullet is HS6. It's starting load is 15 grains which would explain the light kick compared to the factory loads. If I know what powder was used I will know the approx velocity of the round, till I get my chronograph in which is still back ordered, I can use that information in other calculations like the H.I.T.S calculator. BTW I am beginning to think that calculator is flawed.

ArchAngelCD
October 3, 2013, 03:49 AM
I'm sorry to say you can't find which powder by weighing the complete round because there are so many variables. Even if you did guess which powder the velocities listed in the manuals are not near real world velocities you get in the field.

Are these reloads from a licensed reloader or from some guy? It sounds like they are from some guy especially since he can't remember what powder he used. Everything I reload get a sticker on the box with all the components listed. (and date loaded) Some guy reloads are not to be trusted. even though they seem light now they won't be if one or more has a double charge! :eek:

gamestalker
October 3, 2013, 05:00 AM
I agree 100% with what ArchAngelCD said. First, I would never trust some guy's reloads, ever. Had one very close call trusting someone else's reloads many years ago, and he was adamant about his loading skills.

Second, there is truly no way of even getting a 50/50 idea of which powder is in those cartridges based on assembled weight. As stated, too many variables. Brass, and especially heavy large brass such as 44 mag can vary by significant amounts, enough to introduce quite few possible powders that could have charges ranging from minimum, to maximums. Bullets, XTP's too, can differ by as much 1-3 grains, as I've confirmed on numerous occasions. When they are off, they're commonly on the light side, rather than heavier. Conservatively speaking, cartridge weights can vary from 1-6 grains in weight just with brass and bullets alone, and who knows how accurate the powder charges may be.

I would pull the bullets when you get the bench area cleaned up and reassemble those cartridges using known components, and charges. Use a kinetic puller so you can reuse the bullets. Then take the decapping pin out so you can reuse the primers. As for the powder, that's something you'll have to consider from a safety stand point, I wouldn't, but that's me.

GS

mdm
October 3, 2013, 08:17 AM
My brother had some 44 mag reloads made for him but didn't know what powder was used but the powder company being Hodgdon, and I was trying to figure out what the powder used might be. The factory Hornady 180 grain XTP rounds has some kick to them. The reloads kick less than a light loaded 38 special. I weighed the empty cases and they average 120 grains each with the bullets weighing 180 grains + or - 0.01. The loaded rounds weigh 315 grains even on average. That give about 15 grains of powder in each shell. I am thinking it is probably HS6 powder but since I am new to all this I thought I would ask if there are any others that it might be.
This sounds like a marvelous question for Carnac the Magnificent.

Two questions for you:
1 – Why are you shooting “some guy’s” reloads without a clue as to what they are? The rounds you have shot may have been soft but what level of confidence can you have in this faceless reloader’s quality control?
2 – Why are you concerned about what the powder is? If you are trying to duplicate the load, just pick a good powder capable of giving you a soft recoil and work up a usable round.

Move the outboard motor, book shelf, and tool box. Clean off the bench. Use the work bench for what it was intended, work – not storage.

Kuyong_Chuin
October 3, 2013, 08:50 AM
This sounds like a marvelous question for Carnac the Magnificent.

Two questions for you:
1 – Why are you shooting “some guy’s” reloads without a clue as to what they are? The rounds you have shot may have been soft but what level of confidence can you have in this faceless reloader’s quality control?
2 – Why are you concerned about what the powder is? If you are trying to duplicate the load, just pick a good powder capable of giving you a soft recoil and work up a usable round.

Move the outboard motor, book shelf, and tool box. Clean off the bench. Use the work bench for what it was intended, work – not storage.
I'm not using them my idiot hard headed little brother is and will not listen to me about it. I have already had to take down a batch of rifle rounds he let "some guy" do that was over max. Luckily I had the dies and powder to redo them. I borrowed a puller for those. These I don't have the dies to redo them. He has already shot all of the 44 rounds but 5 of them.

As for the junk Dad move the stuff there to make room to work on a China cabinet he had to fix and has not cleaned up his mess yet. Not being allowed to lift anything over two lbs with my right arm right now prevents me from moving the junk myself.

Curiosity mostly is why I would like to know the powder and to do a few calculations.

gamestalker
October 4, 2013, 01:15 AM
I definitely understand your frustration. I can't lift either, and when my knuckle head Son, my youngest one (25 yrs. old) gets any where near my reloading bench, it never fails he piles it high with his junk and projects. Now that I've literally locked my reloading room door, he has to come to me to get the key, and then knows I'm not letting him go any where until I've verified that he has not once again cluttered my space.

What you need to do is lay down some basic rules of respect, and then make sure family members are respecting those rules. I once found my RCBS 5-10 buried under a pile of misc. junk, that was the last straw. Fortunately it was covered with a hard plastic cover, but still, it's my space, I shouldn't have to spend a bunch of time clearing my bench off when I feel like loading.

GS

Kuyong_Chuin
October 4, 2013, 12:11 PM
I definitely understand your frustration. I can't lift either, and when my knuckle head Son, my youngest one (25 yrs. old) gets any where near my reloading bench, it never fails he piles it high with his junk and projects. Now that I've literally locked my reloading room door, he has to come to me to get the key, and then knows I'm not letting him go any where until I've verified that he has not once again cluttered my space.

What you need to do is lay down some basic rules of respect, and then make sure family members are respecting those rules. I once found my RCBS 5-10 buried under a pile of misc. junk, that was the last straw. Fortunately it was covered with a hard plastic cover, but still, it's my space, I shouldn't have to spend a bunch of time clearing my bench off when I feel like loading.

GS
I am planning on building a small portable building and putting a small air conditioner that has a heater too in it. The one I am looking at you can set to hold a constant temperature. The building will be primarily a small studio for my music but, I thought I could set up my bench in one corner of the non sound proof side. That way I will not have to worry about the bench getting buried when Dad decides to do wood work in the basement. I'm buying the wood a little at a time by the time I get it all my arm shoud be healed enough to start the building process.

RandyP
October 4, 2013, 03:42 PM
To quote the Big Bang Theory - "If my brother Stumpy was smart enough to follow directions, we'd still be calling him Edgar."

Reloading is a reasonably simple, safe hobby but it IS inherently hazardous to those who can't follow the tables. I would never trust 'some guy's' reloads.

Kernel
October 4, 2013, 06:11 PM
The reloads kick less than a light loaded 38 special.

If that's the case, those 180gr bullets have to be going WAY SLOW. Like 750-850 fps. We're talking .44 Russian velocities. There is no Hodgdon pistol powder that 15 grains of in a .44 Mag case with a 180gr bullet will go that slow. Nothing remotely close. Including Trailboss.

Kuyong_Chuin
October 4, 2013, 07:45 PM
If that's the case, those 180gr bullets have to be going WAY SLOW. Like 750-850 fps. We're talking .44 Russian velocities. There is no Hodgdon pistol powder that 15 grains of in a .44 Mag case with a 180gr bullet will go that slow. Nothing remotely close. Including Trailboss.
If he doesn't shoot the last five before my chronograph gets here I'll chronograph it to see how fast they are going.

Frag
October 4, 2013, 09:43 PM
Just a few comments:
1) Shooting 'some guys' reloads is about as good an idea as borrowing 'some guys' underwear. Definitely not for the faint hearted and not at all recommended.
2) A bullet puller is cheap and is an essential reloading tool. Amazon has a bunch. You could have one in a day.
3) Understand the curiosity but on the face of it seems like what you are trying to do is analogous to finding out how to make that casserole someone made that tasted like week old socks. Which begs the question.... Why???


And so ends my first post. :)

If you enjoyed reading about "Possible powders used?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!