200 LSWC Woes - Failure to Fit


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johnmcl
October 2, 2013, 07:27 PM
There's a Dillon 550B in my house that's turning out 45 ACP 230GR FMJ like we're going to war. The powder charge, OAL, and brass resizing doesn't drift but at the atomic level. Life is good.

Fast forward to three days ago. I have this idea to switch to a 200 Lead Semi Wad Cutter (LSWC) for a target load out of my favorite 1911. About 4 grains of BE would be the answer here. This is a nice winter time project.

I run a few through the Dillon and out comes the Midway 45ACP chamber gauge.

The trouble now begins. The loaded 200 LSWC rounds do not fit into the chamber gauge. If the don't go into the gauge, they sure as heck aren't going into the gun. The round appears to be fat, leaving the tail end of the round outside the end of the chamber gauge.

What's going on here? The 230 FMJ are 0.452 and the LSWC are 0.452. The FMJ totes out at 1.26 OAL and the LWSC at 1.24. These are Oregon Trail Laser casts, by the way. Both the 230 and the 200s are crimped to 0.457. I've run the crimper die up to almost being out and then down the the plate with not much effect.

So what needs to be done to pass the chamber gauge test? Inquiring minds want to know.

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Jesse Heywood
October 2, 2013, 07:30 PM
Did you do the plunk test?
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506678

rcmodel
October 2, 2013, 07:41 PM
Both the 230 and the 200s are crimped to 0.457.I sure hope that is a typo!! :eek:

.45 ACP lead should be taper-crimped to .472", more or less.

Your wad-cutters are seated too long and the full diameter driving band is hitting the rifling / chamber gage.

SWC musty be seated so the front edge of the front band is about a thumbnail thickness out of the case mouth.

rc

Miata Mike
October 2, 2013, 07:45 PM
What rcmodel said. Only a sliver above the case mouth.

johnmcl
October 2, 2013, 07:54 PM
Hi Jesse,

No, but there's a ton of information in that link. Walkalong knows his stuff.

In that threat, Walkalong is loading his 200 LWSC longer than I. Given that, I still don't see why the 200 LSWC do not go kerplunk in my chamber gauge.

Knucklehead2
October 2, 2013, 07:54 PM
I had a similar problem with Oregon 200swc. Shaved lead pushed up and kept the case mouth from touching. I had to file and scrape the lead from the case mouth. After, I fixed the problem with more bell. I did the same switch from 230grFMJ to Oregon 200swc and did not adjust the bell enough. Just another possibility. I shoot for 1.230 col which works for me in 1911 and XD.

johnmcl
October 2, 2013, 07:55 PM
RC, yes that was a typo. Sorry for the confusion.

ReloaderFred
October 2, 2013, 09:54 PM
I would put the case gauge in a drawer and use the barrel to test the rounds. If they fit the chamber of your barrel, then you're good to go.

Hope this helps.

Fred

ColtPythonElite
October 2, 2013, 09:56 PM
What Reloader said...

steve4102
October 3, 2013, 05:02 AM
RC, yes that was a typo.

What is your actual crimp measurement if it is not .457?

johnmcl
October 3, 2013, 06:52 AM
0.472 is the crimp value.

Walkalong
October 3, 2013, 07:42 AM
What does the round measure just below the "crimp".

Pic 1 (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=116164&stc=1&d=1266759842)

Pic 2 (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=153244&d=1322011199)

And remember, the case wall thickness will vary things a bit. Just make sure you are removing the bell completely.

RealGun
October 3, 2013, 11:11 AM
What .45ACP 230g FMJ is .452? If your belling is actually for .451, you may need an M die or other plug type PTX to adapt to lead at .452. The force of stuffing those fatter bullets into tight cases may deform the cases.

fguffey
October 3, 2013, 11:38 AM
I built a 45 ACP 1911, it likes new ammo, it does not like reloads, reloads that look like short snakes with bulges will not work. I measured new ammo and decided my reloads had to look like new ammo. It did not take long to decide the bulged cases were too large in diameter. I started using the RCBS full length sizer die to remove the bulge, I did not full length size the case, I size enough of the case to remove the bulge. Two very disciplined reloaders met me at the range with their reloads, their reloads did not work, I went home and removed the case looking like it swallowed a bullet appearance then returned, the reloads flew through the 1911 like new ammo.

Then there is the loose bullet in the case because the bullet does not have snap back, recovery, memory or spring back added to the though the bullet after sizing is smaller in diameter? The outside diameter of the case when measured after sizing with the full length sizer die is the same as the diameter of of new ammo.

There is not much I do not have in the way of bullet sizing, my choice is to continue making reloads that look like new ammo or use bullets that do not swell the case or size the bullet before seating.

F. Guffey

Jim Watson
October 3, 2013, 05:54 PM
Chamber check in the gun barrel clean and out of the gun.
Those gauges do not have rifling or throats or leades and can be misleading.

johnmcl
October 4, 2013, 01:52 PM
I appreciate the help here.

Here's a photograph of one round with a 200 LSWC, no powder, no primer. It is sized, belled, seated, and crimped on a Dillon 550B.

The OAL is 1.25in. The distance from the base of the brass to the top of LSWC lip is 0.93 in. The width of the brass is just a tad under 0.470 in. The width a little further down the brass is 0.472.

The second photograph is the same round in a Midway chamber gauge. Notice the distance from the base of the gauge to the base of the brass. The third photograph is a 230 FMJ created moments after the 200 LSWC round in the same press. Notice the expected, and required, flush fit.

I'm still at a loss.

189612

189613

189614

jr_roosa
October 4, 2013, 02:00 PM
I bet they are seating crooked and it bulges the side of the case wall.

Did you flip the little plug in the dillon seater to the swc side from the round nose side?

I had that problem on my single stage press and it went away on the dillon.

Maybe you need a little more bell to get things started straight.

J.

USSR
October 4, 2013, 02:01 PM
johnmcl,

Two things: First, seat your bullet deeper. All my SWC .45 ACP loads have COL's of less than 1.20". Second, I suspect you are not using a separate taper crimp die. Do this and crimp to .470".

Don

johnmcl
October 4, 2013, 02:46 PM
JR --> Yes, I did flip the seating plug to the SWC side, thank you.

USSR --> I changed the OAL to 1.20, and the solved part of the problem. The round went into the chamber gauge further, but not all the way. I do have a separate crimp station on my Dillon 550B, and I believe I'm set at 0.470 now.

So I am better, but not there yet.

LeonCarr
October 4, 2013, 05:07 PM
Generally when I load 200 Grain SWCs I shoot for an OAL of 1.250-1.255 and a Crimp Diameter of .470-.471.

The last step is the Lee Factory Crimp Die. Love it or hate it, all of my ammo passes the plunk test in the barrel or the case gauge with no perceptible loss of accuracy.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

41 Mag
October 4, 2013, 07:25 PM
I can honestly say that I cannot ever remember measuring the diameter of a crimp.

That said I know exactly what your referring to and it is the crimp actually doing this. Back off ever so slightly and they will fall right in there. Don't ask me why but mine do the same thing almost to the exact same depth in the guage.

If you have a Lee FCD try running then just in past the crimp and you will instanly feel the ever so slight bulge. Wether it is too much crimp, or lube, or lead rolling up under the lip of the case something simply gives them just enough bulge to fit snug.

Walkalong
October 4, 2013, 10:10 PM
I never used to, I just eyeballed them under magnification. I started measuring some when folks here were asking about measurements.

Walkalong
October 4, 2013, 10:11 PM
Way over crimped.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=189612&thumb=1&d=1380908998

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=189612&d=1380908998

RealGun
October 5, 2013, 01:04 PM
An FCD would make the rounds usable. Just sayin', for those who hate that idea. Of course, one should stop making more like that.

steve4102
October 6, 2013, 10:18 AM
Agreed, Way Over crimped!

johnmcl
October 6, 2013, 02:08 PM
Here's the update.

I reset my Dillon crimp die as per the instruction, and ran a few FMJ rounds through the press. The rounds dropped into the chamber gauge just fine.

For grins I run a small number of the LSWC bullets through. The OAL is now 1.24. The brass diameter at the crimp point is 0.471. The photo of a representative round in the chamber gauge clearly shows the problem. Now look at the exact same round dropped into a Les Baer barrel. The results are not what I expected.

The gun also goes into full battery with this round. Am I off to the range?

189681

189682

189683

189684

jr_roosa
October 6, 2013, 02:55 PM
Some might not go all te way to battery. But they should mostly work ok.

J.

ljnowell
October 6, 2013, 05:41 PM
I didnt see if this was said or not, but I will say it. Are you going to shoot these rounds out of a case gauge? If not, dont worry about the darned thing. If the rounds pass the plunk test in your barrel, you are good to go. Quit over thinking it and enjoy your reloads.

ReloaderFred
October 6, 2013, 08:14 PM
I was waiting for the range report from firing the rounds through the case gauge..........

The barrel makes a much better gauge for what will fit, and what won't. Case gauges are guides, but the barrel/chamber tells the real story.

Hope this helps.

Fred

RealGun
October 7, 2013, 09:59 AM
I am not interested in owning a gun that will only shoot with custom ammo. Fortunately, the guns I own will shoot off the shelf ammo, or I would get rid of them. Using a gauge that defines a standard fit is exactly what I want. I am also not interested in tearing my gun down every time there is a question.

johnmcl
October 7, 2013, 12:07 PM
ReloaderFred --> I'm firing these rounds tomorrow. I'll provide a report.

Realgun --> I'm with you on the custom ammunition prohibition. My guns have to shoot both commercial and my personal reloaded ammunition flawlessly. I am not interested in having a one-off, specialized gun that can only shoot a certain flavor of ammunition. Save that one for someone else.

As an engineer, I have it burnt into my DNA on the value of precision measurements. What I do not get in this exercise is the false negative on the LSWC ammo in the case gauge. A FMJ round with that much of its *ss end sticking out of the guage would not fit in the barrel. A LSWC with a similar if not identical result does fit.

So now the question is, how do I trust the gauge? I do not consider reliable and repeatable measurement an un- necessary luxury. I also appreciate the sentiment earlier from ljnowell. However, I do not shoot out of my calipers either, and I'm not ditching them.

I do not wish to use my barrel as the test tool, nor do I wish a fifth die coming into play like the Lee factory crimp.

Another answer is to order 200 grain FMJ bullets and be done with it.

ReloaderFred
October 7, 2013, 12:41 PM
I respect every individual's right to believe, or not believe, what they want. That's what makes us individuals.

Some people like to experiment and find out what makes things tick. Others prefer the hard and rigid rules, and never step outside the lines.

With your belief, and Realgun's, in the hard and rigid rules, here are a few calibers you need to stay away from:

9x25 Dillon
9x21
9x23 Winchester
357 Sig
.400 CorBon
.45-120 Sharps
.444 Marlin
.375 Winchester

These above listed calibers would drive you nuts, so my suggestion is for you to avoid them, even though some of them are my favorite calibers to experiment with and have fun with. The .45 acp is one of the easiest calibers there is to load. The others aren't as easy and sometimes take some tweaking, since chambers vary for some of the wildcat calibers. They're not for everybody, but they give me a lot of enjoyment. But then, that's just me....

Hope this helps.

Fred

USSR
October 7, 2013, 12:58 PM
To add to ReloaderFred's list of cartridges to stay away from: .45 Colt and 6.5x55.

Don

ljnowell
October 7, 2013, 03:12 PM
So now the question is, how do I trust the gauge? I do not consider reliable and repeatable measurement an un- necessary luxury. I also appreciate the sentiment earlier from ljnowell. However, I do not shoot out of my calipers either, and I'm not ditching them.

Thats kind of a silly comparison really. Calipers are needed to reload, case gauges are not. Actually calipers arent really a necessity, in a guerrilla reloading(lol, humor).

I dont really see how this has anything to do with a gun requiring custom ammo when its simply that your reloads dont pass the case gauge. I'm not trying to be a jerk, or anything like it, I just feel that you are really over thinking the issue. I'm a mechanic, I tend to tinker well past the point most people stop. Also, being a mechanic I am forced to dislike you, as an engineer. Its nothing personal, just a sworn vendetta between mechanics and engineers(lol).

Good luck with your load and most importantly have fun with it, thats why we do it.

RealGun
October 7, 2013, 03:46 PM
To add to ReloaderFred's list of cartridges to stay away from: .45 Colt and 6.5x55.

I have four .45 Colt guns, one a Henry rifle, that can share ammo, although not the hot kind. It does fit though. I know the distinction between 452ish and 454ish. I have yet to need a gauge or a cylinder to use for clearing ammo to run in these guns. I do have to watch that everything is on the 452ish end of the scale except the Taurus Judge with the .454 cylinder. It shoots anything.

Any revolver ammo I make myself is now finished with a Redding Profile Crimp die. I use both a variety of lead and XTP bullets, both off the shelf and my own reloads. So far, given a minimum of knowledge of the caliber and experience with it, I don't see the .45 Colt as a problem. I wonder what I'm missing.

Jim Watson
October 7, 2013, 08:20 PM
One factor may be that you do not have a chamber gauge.
It is a maximum cartridge gauge and is therefore likely to reject rounds that will still chamber in a typical or even minimum barrel... as you show.

I saw the same effect. My dies produced SWC reloads that would pass the gauge most but not all the time. I saw 10%, sometimes more, that would not enter the gauge fully. I set them aside for practice unless they stood way out of the gauge. The real bad actors got a trip through the Lee CFC die on a single stage press. There were not many of those to deal with. I have had hardly any fail to chamber out of those low rejects or reworked rejects... except when I overlooked an A-MERC case.

I guess you could have a gunsmith run a chamber reamer into your gauge so it would be chamber size instead of cartridge size.

I now use the EGW 4 caliber gauge which they say is cut with chamber reamers. The .45 hole is pretty accommodating, I think it is really at minimum chamber dimensions.
I am at present loading 9mms that will not gauge. They have a good deal of bearing surface of a cylindro-conical bullet showing, and the gauge does not have a leade. I used to have a reamed 9mm gauge but it is gone.
They still chamber freely in one gun and with just a touch against the rifling in my other main shooter.

RealGun
October 8, 2013, 10:34 AM
One factor may be that you do not have a chamber gauge.
It is a maximum cartridge gauge and is therefore likely to reject rounds that will still chamber in a typical or even minimum barrel... as you show.

If referring to my inline post, I don't think of .45 Colt as having a chamber per se. There is a cylinder, cylinder throat, and then a forcing cone. If a round does not seat freely, a double action cylinder will not likely even close, and a single action cylinder will not rotate.

Walkalong
October 8, 2013, 11:35 AM
There are six chambers in a typical cylinder. True, you do not have to worry about it jamming when firing from over sized rounds, because as you posted, they won't go in to begin with.

USSR
October 8, 2013, 12:04 PM
Note: My reference to the .45 Colt and 6.5x55 pertains to ReloaderFred's statement of "With your belief, and Realgun's, in the hard and rigid rules, here are a few calibers you need to stay away from:". My statement was in support of his disdain for those who employ "hard and rigid rules" as it pertains to reloading some cartridges. In the case of the .45 Colt and 6.5x55, it is not a chambering issue, but rather a case of if you are rigid and follow the rules for reloading these cartridges when you will be using them in a strong and modern firearm, you will not be using them to their advantage. For example, I have a .45 Colt in a modern S&W N frame. Do I restrict myself to the 14k psi pressure level as outlined by SAAMI that ensures that any old black powder revolvers can handle? No, I regularly run loads at 20k -25k psi which the N frame can easily handle. I also have a 6.5x55 Winchester Model 70 Match Rifle. Do I run loads at the SAAMI specified 46k CUP pressure level that the Norwegian Krag can handle? No, I run them at the 60k psi that any modern bolt rifle is designed around. Nah, I will take reasoned thought and experience over hard and rigid anyday.

Don

johnmcl
October 8, 2013, 01:26 PM
Jim,

That is exactly it. I have a Midway Max Cartridge Length gauge, not a chamber gauge.

Thank you, that explains it all.

Jim Watson
October 8, 2013, 02:19 PM
If referring to my inline post, I don't think of .45 Colt as having a chamber per se. There is a cylinder, a cylinder throat, and then a forcing cone. If a round does not seat freely, a double action cylinder will not likely even close, and a single action cylinder will not rotate.
__________________
RealGun


I was not.
I referred to the OP's pictures of .45 ACP standing up out of his gauge, but chambering in his barrel.

A .45 Colt revolver definitely has chambers, six of them. Some sources call them "charge holes."
It has one cylinder and one cylinder only. Reference to the "cylinders" of a revolver is a jargon error on par with "clip" vs "magazine" except that it is seldom noticed or corrected.

RealGun
October 8, 2013, 04:13 PM
There are six chambers in a typical cylinder. True, you do not have to worry about it jamming when firing from over sized rounds, because as you posted, they won't go in to begin with.

Yes, of course. Thank you. It still is problematic to compare gauging rounds that headspace on the case mouth to those that do not.

777funk
October 8, 2013, 04:32 PM
I use a cheap Lee 1000 progressive press and with the right settings I can get SWC's to shoot great out of a Girsan 1911 and a Ruger P90 that's had the rifling free bored a touch.

I originally had problems and I found the issue was too much bell/flare on the case mouth.

Dave at Lee pointed this out to me. He told me just bell the case only enough that the bullet will not fall off. He was 100% corect. The guy casting the SWC's told me to bell the case to where 2/3 or so of the SWC would drop into the case after flaring. Then I'd have to crimp the heck out of it. What I was creating was a bulge with my flare/bell (which will undo much of the work your resizing die just did) then crimping to compensate. I could get it to run but a lot would fail to go into battery. Your picture looks bulged in the center to me and I'm guessing you have the same problem. You don't need the Factory Crimp Die. It's just a fix for a problem earlier in the line.

I believe your problem is you are putting too much bell into the case.

Do this:
1. Flare/Bell ONLY enough that the bullet will stay put and not fall off. This way you're not un-sizing your properly resized case.
2. Use little to no crimp. I use NO crimp. Seat them to 1.230 or as RCMODEL says just a thumnail of the SWC's shank showing above the case.

3. Test

Walkalong
October 8, 2013, 05:26 PM
It still is problematic to compare gauging rounds that headspace on the case mouth to those that do not.Headspace and whether it is a rimmed case or straight walled case has nothing to do with this. It is not a case or a head space problem.

RealGun
October 8, 2013, 06:44 PM
In my opinion, citing .45 Colt as a problem caliber makes a distinction in head spacing and type of gauging. Review the thread for the context of what I wrote and to what I was responding.

Walkalong
October 8, 2013, 09:55 PM
I did. :)

RealGun
October 9, 2013, 08:17 AM
Then you would know that this is where we took a left turn, away from the type of cartridge the OP was discussing.

To add to ReloaderFred's list of cartridges to stay away from: .45 Colt and 6.5x55.

777funk
October 9, 2013, 08:37 AM
To the OP, as I said in post #43, in try not flaring the case quite as much (only enough the bullet doesn't fall off and will fit in the mouth's diameter but not drop in any noticeable amount), then seating the bullet to where there's just barely a sliver (thumb nail as RC put it) of the SWC's belt showing and I'd bet even with little to no crimp it'll fit in your gauge.

I believe you're un-sizing the resized case somewhere along the line (either your case bell/flare, or the crimp). I see a bulge in the middle that I'm guessing is causing the hangup (at least in your gauge - which will probably mean that your reloads won't be as reliable as factory ammo).

RealGun
October 9, 2013, 10:31 AM
I believe you're un-sizing the resized case somewhere along the line (either your case bell/flare, or the crimp). I see a bulge in the middle that I'm guessing is causing the hangup (at least in your gauge - which will probably mean that your reloads won't be as reliable as factory ammo).

I think the bullets are likely to be larger in diameter than any expander plug, i.e. it is the bullet that is sizing the case but only in its insertion area. A resizing die that does a little less work of the brass would solve it, I think. One has to have a die set that is suitable for the bullet diameters.

johnmcl
October 9, 2013, 10:32 AM
777,

When you complete the seating process, but prior to your light crimping, does your brass fits into the your gauge? Your solution is intuitively correct.

777funk
October 9, 2013, 01:43 PM
I have a seating and crimping die in one step (Lee 3 Die Set) so since it's seated and crimped in one step it's not as easy to tell what the results are like step by step. I suppose I could back the crimp portion of the die ALL the way out to test.

I originally had it set to crimp to where I could see an obvious visibile crimp (looked like yours but maybe not quite that much). Now I have backed it off to where I can't see any visible crimp (the side profile looks straight and with no tool/work marks that would be evidence of a crimp on the outside of the case mouth area).

I think my biggest problem was too much flare. I had flare to where I could get the bullet at least 1/2 as far as it would be seated. Now it just fits in the mouth. Most cast bullets have a chamfer on the bottom anyway so this doesn't take much bell at all. I can push it just a little beyond the chamfer and into the diameter of the bullet's belt if I try by finger pressure before seating it.

All I know is that I now have rounds that work 100% in everything I've tested with (Ruger, 1911, G30 - but not with SWCs, RN only for the G30) and ALL of them pass the plop test very easily as with factory ammo assuming the seating depth is correct for the barrel and not extending into the rifling. I found a depth that works well for the SWC's I'm using and can make a round that works in almost any .45 if I want to, or make them longer for guns that will take it (where rifling is deeper).

So that's my suggestion: 1. Bell only enough and 2. Crimp only enough... .469 is what I was originally getting at the mouth and still having problems due to the bell being too much and creating a bulge below the crimp (once in a while, it'd even smash a case as it crimped... yeah, the bell was way too much). Now even .472 works just fine after fixing my bell issue.

kerreckt
October 10, 2013, 10:12 AM
I never understood why you need a case gauge when you have the barrel. I thought it was just more stuff someone wanted to make you believe you needed. Now, I understand that it is used to confuse the problem(s) at hand. Or, even better, used to create new problems. Just my $0.02.

RealGun
October 10, 2013, 10:48 AM
"I never understood" should include why any gun should rightfully accept a cartridge that fails a go/nogo gauge. I don't own one, and expect that many others do not either. You use a gauge if you want to.

ReloaderFred
October 10, 2013, 08:59 PM
Well bless your heart..............

Fred

777funk
October 15, 2013, 02:15 PM
So I take it you have no more trouble?

41 Mag
October 16, 2013, 07:28 AM
I cannot see why so many are against using a gauge to check the fit of a round. If it is what the OP wants to do so be it. It would be like jumping on someone for using a small base die or trimming revolver cases. Just because you don't want to or do not use one is no reason for the OP or anyone else not to. They do serve a purpose even if you yourself don't want to use them.

Personally I use one simply to make sure my ammo will fit, if it fits the gauge it fits the barrel. I don't like stripping my pistol down every time I load up a box of bullets. I have found more reasons to use one, than not to use one in other words. The other reason I use the gauge is that I not only load for my own pistol, but also for my daughters. I cannot use her barrel to check the fit in, since she lives some 3 hours away. So I rely on what I know works, and we have had no issues with it so far.

I started using one when I started loading for my 10mm years ago and found it was quite a time saver in not having to strip the pistol down just to check for any fit issues. Once I figured out what worked and set up dummy rounds for each bullet I found I really didn't need it. That said, I really don't need the one for my ACP if all I am loading is jacketed.

With lead however I have found it to be indispensable since I am playing with several different bullets and profiles. Once I finally decide on a load(s) and set up a dummy round(s) for it I doubt seriously that I will use it much after. In the mean time however it's working and thats what is important.

In reading back over this thread I have found that it could easily be the flare I am using which is causing as much of an issue as anything. Not that I am over doing it, but this seems to answer some of the issue I am having which is almost identical with the OP's issue. My remedy has been simply to toss the ones that don't fit into the other bin, then run them in just past the crimp only into the FCD die. I can easily feel just a touch of resistance when the rim of the case enters the die. Once past it has no more resistance. I will be loading up several hundred more this evening, and will be adjusting the expander die just a touch to see if this solves my issue.

I personally picked up the FCD die for my 454 and 45 Colt loads. I found it really didn't help a bit with what I was after. So verses just tossing it in the drawer like it was, I found it does work to iron out the little bit of an issue I have had. The funny thing is I only get this issue when I load SWC's, it doesn't happen when I load anything else. Go figure.

Hopefully reworking the expander will help, and if it does I will post back up here.

Update since earlier.

I adjusted my expander to the point where the flat based SWC would just sit atop of the case mouth. Then I adjusted the crimp to the point it smoothed smoothed out the lip on the case. I ran through 50 rounds of a HG-68 clone, and out of the 50 I only had 3 that wouldn't fall right to the bottom of the case gauge. Not sure what was up with those three. Ran just the lip into the FCD and they dropped all the way in.

Then I changed up bullets and went with a HG-130 SWC. Went through the same procedure as above only this time I had almost a dozen out of 50 that failed to fully fit. I ran just the lip of the rim through the FCD and they dropped in effortlessly. I didn't spend much time setting things up like I did with the first SWC. I figured since I already had some of these loaded I could get by with just setting the seater. Didn't work out that way. Not sure what the differences were, but I had more issues with this one over the other.

Switched bullets once more. This time I loaded 50 rounds using the MP-452-200 HP. Again I set up the dies as above noted. Loaded all 50 rounds then started checking them using the Wilson gauge. Out of the 50 I had one that didn't drop to the bottom on the first try. That one was due to lube which was gooped up on the nose. Once wiped clean, it dropped like the rest.

Right or wrong, it seems like the die adjustment can solve some or all of the issue. However if your loading more than one type bullet, it is going to be time consuming to set up each time before loading a batch. If your only using one type or profile, then you should be good once you tweak it in where it needs to be. I personally don't like using the gauge, but as mentioned above since I load for both myself and my daughter I need to make sure they all fit, and at least this is a sure fire way if making that happen. I do NOT run the cases into the FCD the full length of the cse however. I have done so and had it size the bullets down depending on what brass I was using. This coule also be part of the issue with what I am using now. I don't think so but I am using Winchester cases like I always have. Just now I am using .452 bullets instead of .451 jacketed so it could amplify the effect.

johnmcl
October 16, 2013, 04:26 PM
Hi all,

I have been away for a few days, and now am back on the problem.

Short story - I'm well and thank you all for the advice.

Following an earlier post I significantly reduced the belling in the powder drop stage of the Dillon reloading process. That fixed the problem. I also reduced the crimp depth. I am finding the crimp amount to be relatively insensitive to the gauge results within reason. That is, a little more or a little less crimp doesn't seem to have all that much effect.

Now the ammunition goes pretty well kerplunk into the gauge and very well kerplunk into the barrel. All good.

I'm going to continue to use the gauge. It is my nature to want an instrumented, repeatable hand loading process. You may not choose to do so, but you are not me.

The results of 25 shots at 10 meters are more than ok too.

190030

Walkalong
October 16, 2013, 05:20 PM
Proofs in the pudding. Nice.

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