27 CFR PART 24--Subpart D--Establishment and Operations
§ 24.113 Description of volatile fruit-flavor concentrate operations.
Each applicant intending to produce volatile fruit-flavor concentrate shall include on the ATF F 5120.25 application a step-by-step description of the production procedure to be employed. The description will commence with the obtaining of juice from the fruit and continue through each step of the process to removal of volatile fruit-flavor concentrate from the system. If volatile fruit-flavor concentrate containing more than 24 percent alcohol (high-proof concentrates (essences)) is to be produced, the proprietor shall indicate any step in the production procedure at which any spirits may be fit for beverage purposes. The maximum quantity in gallons of fruit most used and volatile fruit-flavor concentrate produced in 24 hours, the maximum and minimum fold, and the maximum percent of alcohol in the volatile fruit-flavor concentrate will be stated for each kind of fruit used. (Sec. 201, Pub. L. 85-859, 72 Stat. 1379, as amended, 1380, as amended, 1392, as amended (26 U.S.C. 5356, 5361, 5511))
(Approved by the Office of Management and Budget under control number 1512-0058)
§ 24.85 Essences.
Essences or extracts (preparations of natural constituents extracted from fruit, herbs, berries, etc.) may be used in the production of any formula wine except agricultural wine. The essences may be produced on wine premises or elsewhere. Where an essence contains spirits, use of the essence may not increase the volume of the wine more than 10 percent nor its alcohol content more than four percent by volume. (Sec. 201, Pub. L. 85-859, 72 Stat. 1386, as amended (26 U.S.C. 5386))
§ 24.86 Essences produced on wine premises.
Wine, taxpaid spirits, or spirits withdrawn tax-free may be used in the production of essences on wine premises. The description of the process for producing the essence may be included as part of a formula for the production of a formula wine or a separate formula may be filed on ATF F5120.29. If a separate formula is filed for the essence, the serial number of the formula by which it is produced will be shown in the ATF F 5120.29 covering the formula wine in which it is to be used. If an essence is to be made in quantities greater than required for individual lots of formula wine, and stored on the premises, a separate formula will be filed for the essence. Essences made on wine premises with wine spirits withdrawn free of tax pursuant to 26 U.S.C. 5214(a)(5) may only be used in the production of a formula wine, and may not be removed from the premises where made. Essences made on wine premises with the use of tax-free spirits withdrawn free of tax pursuant to 26 U.S.C. 5214(a)(13) may only be used in the production of a nonbeverage wine or wine product and may not be removed from the premises where made. The ATF F 5120.29 for the production of an essence is filed in the same manner as for the production of formula wine and a sample of the essence produced will be at least four fluid ounces. (Sec. 201, Pub. L. 85-859, 72 Stat. 1386, as amended (26 U.S.C. 5386))
March 25, 2004, 12:51 AM
Ummm, folks, the title of the form IS hilarious, but in this instance, "Plant" means "factory." A place where fruit flavors are distilled from botanical, grow-up-outta-the-ground "plants," their fruits & flowers or, presumably, the organic synthesis of artificial flavors. Line 9. of the form is for a listing of "each still and condenser by serial number, kind, capacity in wine gallons of distillate per hour,and intended use." What's the "A" in ATF, everybody?
I wonder what a "wine gallon" is ... maybe a weighted %-alcohol thing?
Pretty funny, though. I do apologize for raining on the party. ;)
EDIT: Curses, Mr. Clark! You are faster and more erudite than I! :fire:
:D :D :D
March 25, 2004, 01:23 AM
"Pretty funny, though. I do apologize for raining on the party. "
Except that it is VOLATILE fruit concentrate! I believe that is why it is in the explosive/firearms section, not alcohol. Maybe the web guy screwed up putting it there!
March 25, 2004, 02:02 AM
it is in the explosive/firearms section Got me. Looks like the 5300 series forms (and 4473) have to do with firearms and ammunition, the 5400s are explosives, the header on the 5500s is "Reserved," whatever that means (this form—5520.3—is the only one under that header); 5630.7 NFA Revenue Pgm - only one form there, as well.
Wait -- -- -- ??? Am I seriously sitting here, studying a gov't web site and trying to analyze the way that FORMS are NUMBERED???
I'm going to go and make some tea.
March 25, 2004, 02:13 AM
~5100 is for booze. They have all the booze and toe-backy on a totally different web site.
March 25, 2004, 07:30 AM
What's the "A" in ATF, everybody?
Um... "Intrusive"? No, wait, that's an "I"... Hmmm... Wait! "Unconstitutional"? Nope, nope, that's "U"... Oh! I know! "Annoying"!
March 25, 2004, 07:42 AM
Don't tell the terrorists that fruit concentrate is volatile!
March 25, 2004, 07:55 AM
The alphabet soup groups never cease to amaze me.
March 25, 2004, 10:19 AM
Sent email as follows:
Subject: Tell me this is an early April Fool's joke
If not, what's it for, really?!?! Laughed my head off when someone showed
We'll see if he takes the bait... he'll probably laugh his head off, too.
March 25, 2004, 11:07 AM
Them there revenoors dang well better stay the heck out of these here hills!
March 25, 2004, 11:19 AM
::raises can of welch's grape concentrate over head:: Careful! He's armed!
March 25, 2004, 01:01 PM
I get it. Happy Bob is on it.
Sounds silly, but it makes sense. Within the logical confines of our hideously over-regulated society, that is...
They're talking about fruit flavorings that use alcohol in significant quantities as the carrier fluid. Just like Vanilla extract, real or artificial, does. I just watched a Food Network segment on how vanilla is made, and they showed the step where they poured in gallons of pure Ethyl alcohol, basicaly food service "Everclear" booze in big plastic jugs. McCormic allways has those little bottles of lemon and maple flavoring etc. along with the vanilla in the spice and baking asile of the grocery store.
I think this is to register and regulate companies that make fruit extracts that use lots of alcohol in them to be sure someone isn't using that kind of manufacture as cover for a real liquor operation. Just like how fermenting and distilling alcohol for fuel use has ATF regulation and oversight as well, to be sure that it's not being used as moonshine for human consumption.
March 25, 2004, 01:17 PM
Yeah, but it is still posted in the firearms and splosives' area. Hilarious!
mayhaps strawberry wine is the new combustion fuel of choice for potato cannons
i would of thought vodka, but you know these kids today...
oh no! a drive by flaming fruiting!
March 25, 2004, 02:49 PM
I wonder how Rossi, et al feel about having to disclose their formulas... thought that was covered by something akin to patent law.
Well, we can now hang up the Molotov cocktail phrase and start talking about Welch's cocktails. "More punch". (But all that purple???):D
March 26, 2004, 08:04 AM
Happy Bob, a wine gallon is 231 cubic inches. It's an old English measurement, different from the Imperial gallon. It is what the US Gallon is based upon.
March 26, 2004, 09:32 AM
Each applicant intending to produce volatile fruit-flavor concentrate shall include on the ATF F 5120.25 application a step-by-step description of the production procedure to be employed
I know exactly what this is all about. I had to fill out Ethanol usage paperwork today at the end of my shift. We use 200 proof (pure) ethanol for production of drugs and drug intermediates where I work. The treasury Dept. is very strict about the details you have to provide for the usage of the alcohol. Most of the rules and mathematical formulas were are forced to use have little bearing on the reality of pharmaceutical production, but we have to use them because some bureaucrat somewhere who has no clue about the chemistry we do, wants us to.
My company produces narcotics and uses highly controlled narcotics for starting materials to make even more potent drugs. Amazingly, the DEA, who we also deal with closely has a very good understanding of what we do, is far less anal retentive, and actually requires a bit less paperwork for our controlled substances than what the BATFE requires for ethanol and the precious tax that is involved with it.
Current tax on a gallon of 200 proof ethanol is between $24-26.
We use dozens of 55 gallon drums of the stuff a year.
The difference in treatment is the difference between enforcement of the law (DEA) and tax collection (Treasury department).
March 26, 2004, 11:23 AM
Thanks, BluesBear! That confirms it—the combined membership here knows everything! For any aspect of human knowledge, it appears that someone here at THR knows it, or knows where to find it. I like this group of people; I just want to tell y'all that again.
March 26, 2004, 01:32 PM
ATF April Fools joke? Couldnt be. Its March 26th. If it were an april fools joke we wouldnt see it untill mid May because of set-backs.
March 26, 2004, 01:36 PM
Good point Zach!
I guess this falls under the category of "We don't have a sense of humor. Don't laugh.... we're armed!"
March 26, 2004, 01:48 PM
If you take words 2 & 4 out of the thread title.........
March 26, 2004, 01:55 PM
So is the ATF gonna put a limit on the number of vanilla extracts I can by next? Granted I rarely cook with it.
Bad enough I have to ask for glue being as it is behind the counter, and I'm limited to 2 boxes of Sinus meds...like I'm a meth head.
Getting kinda tired of being "protected". I guess if I vanish ya'll call the feebs and find me. Planning on picking up Pseudoephedrine ( Sudaphed) since my sinuses are driving me nuts, some Acetone, Mineral spirits, and Methyl alcohol to clean come stuff before and after painting...might as well go for the brass bell and get some vanilla extract...don't drink...maybe a bottle of wine tho'... in case of company...getting busted bad enough maybe I get to go to a 'country club" facility. Should I carry 1 or 2 CCW while I'm at it...never learned to play chess...maybe I get busted "good enough" I get taught at taxpayers expense. Oh I need smokes while I'm out...yep that ought to do it...you find me send smokes...figure those will get nabbed right off...OMG the boy even is a member of a internet gun forum...horrors...:scrutiny:
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