I noticed that some p226 have external extractors and some do not. I was just wondering when did sigarms changed to the external extractor on the p226 or am I just looking at some bogus pictures....:rolleyes:
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March 25, 2004, 01:38 AM
I'm not a SIG guru. You'd probably get better awnsers on www.sigforum.com
To my knowledge, and let me re-iterate that I'm not a SIG guru, the only sig with an internal extractor is the P228, which looks more or less like a compact P226.
Here are two links for your reference:
Unfortunately, neither picture shows the side with the extractor.
Again, www.sigforum.com is a great website.
March 25, 2004, 04:19 AM
I've never seen or heard of a P226 with an internal extractor.
March 25, 2004, 07:45 AM
Older P226's made out of a folded steel slide have an internal extractor.
When Sigarms started making the P226 in .40, then to compensate for a higher chamber pressure, the new slides are made out of stainless steel and have the extractor exposed on the side.
Sig FAQ (http://home.t-online.de/home/cswimm/sig/sigfaq.htm)
March 25, 2004, 02:10 PM
I have a 226 9mm that has the internal extractor with the plate formed slide, i guess when they swithced to machined stainless slides they changed to external extractor.
March 25, 2004, 02:15 PM
I see.... thank you very much for the responses. Anyone know where to get a good deal on a P226?
March 25, 2004, 04:04 PM
actually you might wait for Charles Daly to import the CZ-99 (http://www.zastava-arms.co.yu/english/civilni.htm) later this year, it looks to be a great SIG copy with significant improvements. they'll be calling it the ZDA (Zastava Double Action). it's the most ambidextrous pistol i've seen, ever (mag release, decocker, everything).
seriously this will kick the crap out of that Croatian "X-treme Duty" pistol. war, what is it good for? great pistol design perhaps?
March 25, 2004, 04:38 PM
Two decockers and mag releases? I wonder what that's gonna do to the people who screech about Sigs having "too much stuff on the left side."
March 25, 2004, 05:24 PM
"too much stuff on the left side."
what are those glock people?
Pretty elegant looking if you ask me, they combine the mag release and the decocker so on each side there's only one lever and a mag release buttonhttp://www.zastava-arms.co.yu/images/civilni/pistolji/cz_x.jpg
March 26, 2004, 10:57 AM
"actually you might wait for Charles Daly to import the CZ-99 later this year, it looks to be a great SIG copy with significant improvements. they'll be calling it the ZDA (Zastava Double Action). it's the most ambidextrous pistol i've seen, ever (mag release, decocker, everything).
seriously this will kick the crap out of that Croatian "X-treme Duty" pistol. war, what is it good for? great pistol design perhaps?"
yes it LOOKS good on a photo, but that yugo pistol is far from SIGs in quality department.
Technically the ZCZ99 is not a SIG copy, but rather a copy of the ill-fated Walther P88 (NOT the P88Compact).
It is a good gun for its price (here it is about 500 euros) by the way.
See the original Walther P88:
March 26, 2004, 02:39 PM
Have to disagree here. The 99 is more like the SIG (226 specifically) internally than the 88. For 50%-70% of the price of a SIG (in the US), the relative levels of quality is understandable.
To compare, my 99 has been as reliable as my 226 shooter. Both have been a bit more reliable than my 88 but slightly less accurate (at least in my hands). here in the US a NIB 88 (if you can find one) will run ~$1000 US (±~$100). 226s ~ $600-$700 (non-SS). 99s ~$300-$400 (if you can find any left).
I'll jump off the plane now.
March 27, 2004, 08:06 AM
Ill agree also........the TZ99 as they have been called for years is a Sig Copy. I wont say clone because they dont have interchangeable parts but they are damn close in the hand.
Ive shot a couple and almost bought one. They are a first class weapon.
Quality of the guns is first rate......just because the gun is not known and has little following here still makes it a great gun. It have a lack of support/repair in the states presently.
The Bersa Thunder 9 of years gone by is ALOT closer copy of the Walther which isnt actually that close of a copy when you get right down to it.
The TZ/CZ99, with a good distributor in the states, could make a very very good gun for alot of people.
March 27, 2004, 08:56 AM
If you want a P226 buy a P226. Don't buy something else because of price. You hear about the knock offs being "just like a SIG," "as accurate as a SIG," but you know what, they're not SIGs!:neener:
March 27, 2004, 11:51 AM
Don't buy something else because of price. You hear about the knock offs being "just like a SIG," "as accurate as a SIG," but you know what, they're not SIGs!
there's a grain of truth but at one time i wanted a walther ppk in .22 but those are impossible to find and i soon found out all the little problems and discomforts of the ppk design. later i found a firestorm .22lr which suited me perfectly and after a few trips to the range you start to forget the name of the rose and just enjoy it's sweet cordite fragrance.
March 29, 2004, 06:50 AM
"Have to disagree here. The 99 is more like the SIG (226 specifically) internally than the 88. "
Please explain me, why.
The P88 have the same ambi mag catch and decocker/slide catch comination as Zastava 99, it is quite different than on SIG, which has right hand only mag catch, slide catch and decocker (and the latter two are different control devices.)
The barrel-locking is the same on the 3 pistols (P88, P226, CZ99).
Only the cosmetic of CZ99 is similar to SIG on the slide.
March 29, 2004, 02:01 PM
Internally, the 99 is more similar to the 226 than the 88.
Disassembly of the 99 is the same as for the 226, i.e. lock the slide back, rotate lever, release slide (off). For the 88, the disassembly lever can be activated with the slide fully forward.
The disassembly lever for the 99 and 226 retains the locking block that houses the disassembly lever retaining spring, provides a small feeding ramp to the barrel's feed ramp, covers the trigger assembly, and most importantly, provides the camming action surface for the barrel during cycling (to tilt downward). This block can be removed buy pushing the retaining spring out of the way by rotating the lever further and pulling it out. The 88 does not have this.
The firing pin of the 99 and 226 work as normal with a firing pin stop. (Going by memory here, don't have my 99 with me at the moment.) The 88's method of firing pin safety is to lower the entire firing pin assembly down to align with a recess in the hammer. This recess prevents the firing pin from being struck in the event the hammer inadvertently falls without the trigger being pulled back.
The 99 and 226 do not have an adjustable trigger stop.
The action bar of the 99 is similar as the 226 being internal and disconnected by a notch on the inside of the slide. The 88's bar is external ala P38/P1/Beretta/Taurus.
Although all used the modified Browning action, the 99 and 226 have parts, e.g. barrel, locking block, etc. that look nearly identical.
The only thing that the 99 has in common with the 88 is the ambi slide stop/decocker and the ambi mag release. Other than that, it's essentially a 226.
As noted, the Bersa Thunder9 is more akin ot the 88 than the 99 (or 226). There are some differences between the two, though, but that's another story.
I don't have all of these guns with me at the same location at this time but if you can wait until Friday or Saturday I'll post pics (including the Thunder9).
March 30, 2004, 08:33 AM
hksw: I accept your arguments.
So, we can say, that the ZCZ99 is a clone of P226 inside and P88 by its manual operation.
I really wanted those 99s from the time they were imported as "CZ" whatevers, which was a big trademark boo-boo. Even visited the importer in Reno one year looking for one, but the war had stopped imports at that time.
Then I got broke again.
I thought of them as a Walterh P88 frame and controls with a P226 slide assembly. Seemed like the best of both worlds, until I discovered the joys of very low bore axis.
Will Charles Daly be importing them with factory Tritium sights like the original run had?
I'm interested all over again.
March 30, 2004, 10:39 PM
BTW, the Zastava combines the decocker and slide release. The ambi mag release is a clever paddle system that uses a basically hourglass-shaped thumbpiece to push the lower edge towards the mag, pivoting the top edge into the frame recess to release the mag.
Perhaps not recommended for deep-sea burial and retrieval, because it could fill up with silt and jam all future mag changes. But then, if that area fills with silt, the rest of the gun won't work either.
April 3, 2004, 01:57 AM
OK, some minor problems. It's night time, I'm shooting pics indoors, my parent's house does not have good lighting. The pics aren't very good but you get the idea concerning similarities and differences.
Don't mind the P7. It's like one of those goofy kids at a news story jumping in front of the camera.