Confused on this regulation


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RandyRay41
October 8, 2013, 08:57 PM
Why are laws so confusing? This is Alabama's law pretaining to carrying a firearm in a state park


ProhibitedDevices(220-5-.08)
(1) It shall be unlawful for any person other than a duly authorized law enforcement
officer to possess or carry into any State Park any form of firearm without written permission of the manager or custodian in charge of the State Park visited; provided, however, nothing in this regulation prohibits the possession of handguns by lawfully licensed persons for personal protection, provided the handguns are not used for any unlawful purpose. No person shall possess, discharge or set off on or within a State park any firecrackers, torpedoes, rockets, cap pistols, or other fireworks

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Telekinesis
October 8, 2013, 09:20 PM
It really helps if you break it up into paragraphs.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person other than a duly authorized law enforcement officer to possess or carry into any State Park any form of firearm without written permission of the manager or custodian in charge of the State Park visited;

provided, however,

nothing in this regulation prohibits the possession of handguns by lawfully licensed persons for personal protection, provided the handguns are not used for any unlawful purpose.

No person shall possess, discharge or set off on or within a State park any firecrackers, torpedoes, rockets, cap pistols, or other fireworks

This one is actually not too bad. If you want difficult, look up some federal code :D

RandyRay41
October 8, 2013, 09:24 PM
So can I carry in a State Park? Seems like two conflicting paragraphs to me. But I'm no lawyer.

Art Eatman
October 8, 2013, 09:29 PM
As I read it, a CHL holder can carry a handgun. But no rifle or shotgun.

Without the CHL, no gun at all.

Telekinesis
October 8, 2013, 10:47 PM
So can I carry in a State Park? Seems like two conflicting paragraphs to me. But I'm no lawyer.

Yes, but only if you're carrying a handgun with a valid carry permit.

Typically the way laws are written is that they make an action illegal, and then provide exceptions for circumstances that make the action legal.

chhodge69
October 8, 2013, 10:58 PM
Typically the way laws are written is that they make an action illegal, and then provide exceptions for circumstances that make the action legal.

and typically the prohibitions are broad and vague while the exceptions are very specific.

Unlawful to carry any form of firearm (broad)
Unless: you have a license to carry and it's a handgun and it's for personal protection and you don't do anything ilegal with it. (specific)

RMc
October 8, 2013, 11:06 PM
Check the legal definition of a pistol in the Alabama Code. There are some handguns that are not included in the definition.

Jim K
October 8, 2013, 11:34 PM
It is also common when a law is passed that makes an exception to current law for the exception to be inserted that way so the rest of the law does not have to be rewritten to cover the exception.

Jim

deadin
October 17, 2013, 11:49 AM
I read it as: If you don't have a license OR you want to use it for an unlawful purpose, you have to have written permission.:what::neener:

9mmepiphany
October 17, 2013, 03:47 PM
That read pretty clearly to me and I'm not a lawyer either.

Telekinesis is correct, pay attention to the punctuation and break it down into separate paragraphs

chhodge69 offers a good rule of thumb of how laws are written, while Jim K explains how they evolve

CoRoMo
October 17, 2013, 05:14 PM
...nothing in this regulation prohibits the possession of handguns by lawfully licensed persons for personal protection...
So if you are a permit holder in possession of a handgun in the state park, but possession of the handgun is not for the purpose of personal protection, you are breaking the law. No target shooting or small game hunting. I'm sure a hunting license might suffice as 'written permission'?

9mmepiphany
October 17, 2013, 09:04 PM
I'm sure a hunting license might suffice as 'written permission'?
So, in your state, hunting licenses are issued by the "manager or custodian in charge of the State Park visited"?

...so each State Park would issue it's own license?

vamo
October 18, 2013, 01:05 PM
Seems to be entirely to prevent someone from hunting w/o a license and using open carry as a defense when caught.

REB
October 18, 2013, 08:03 PM
The history of this code is the statement "provided, however, nothing in this regulation prohibits the possession of handguns by lawfully licensed persons for personal protection, provided the handguns are not used for any unlawful purpose." was added to a number of administrative codes such as parks, forest lands, hunting regulation, etc. not long ago. While it probably wouldn't stand up in the courts may state agencies still had restrictive anti gun regulations for state lands. This was sort of a loophole in the preemption law because the legislature through law recognizes the administrative code and provides penalties for it. As the state legislature became more conservative these regulation were changed.

What licensed is another area of confusion. You do not need a license to open carry in Alabama. At the time these codes were changed many law enforcement agencies were still refusing to recognize this fact and it could be assumed that you need a license to lawfully carry a pistol.

If you have a concealed carry license yes you can carry in a state park.
If you don't have a license it is somewhat questionable. You would almost certainly win in the court of appeals but thats a long expensive proposition.

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