Suppressor ATF Form 4 in CT...Jeez!


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RussB
October 12, 2013, 02:16 PM
Here in Connecticut, our Gun Rights are severely challenged since the shooting in Newtown. That said, we can still legally purchase a suppressor here, and I have chosen to exercise my right in doing so.

My town does not have a police force, or a resident (state) trooper. I need to get my CLEO to sign off on the form 4. My only option was to send my paperwork to the state police headquarters in Middletown, and have the Colonel (top state police officer) complete the form.


Well, it's been 4 weeks and no one can provide me with info as to how long it's going to take, or even that my paperwork has arrived!

...and so I wait :(

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rgwalt
October 12, 2013, 03:08 PM
Why not go the NFA trust route? Bypass CLEO sign off completely.

RussB
October 12, 2013, 03:40 PM
Truth be told, I don't know anything about "Trusts". I have no idea how it works here in CT...there are some loose ends regarding the new gun laws regarding trusts here that are unresolved

Prince Yamato
October 12, 2013, 11:25 PM
He'll have to get CLEO signature after December 1 anyway, because trusts will no longer be exempt per executive order.

CapnMac
October 12, 2013, 11:52 PM
(Psst: It's not an EO, but an (AT)FE requested change to CFR )

Telekinesis
October 13, 2013, 12:19 AM
He'll have to get CLEO signature after December 1 anyway, because trusts will no longer be exempt per executive order.

That doesn't mean he can't send in a form 4 with a trust now to avoid the CLEO signature and hope that the ATF decides to grandfather all the applications they've already received once the rule officially changes. And if they decide to send it back, he's just in the same boat he's already in right now.



RussB, basically the trust acts as a separate legal entity (which you own/have control over) and the trust technically owns the weapon. Generally a trust allows you to do several things when it comes to NFA weapons. The most widely discussed advantage is that you don't need a CLEO signature, photos, or fingerprints for the application, but another big advantage is that any trustee can legally possess the weapon, not just the grantor (that would be you). That means that if your wife or children (or future wife/children) have access to your weapons outside of your presence, they won't be committing felonies.

rjrivero
October 13, 2013, 11:10 AM
RussB....do you live in a County with a Sheriff? Have them sign off.

mbogo
October 13, 2013, 03:02 PM
County sheriff, District Attorney, or judge can sign it. Check the BATFE's FAQ page.

mbogo

rgwalt
October 13, 2013, 03:38 PM
He'll have to get CLEO signature after December 1 anyway, because trusts will no longer be exempt per executive order.
Cutoff date is December 8 or 9 I believe. We all hope and think that applications that have been received at that point will be grandfathered. There are people waiting for stamps that submitted earlier in the year, well before the new rules were proposed. I doubt the gov/ATF would reject their applications, so the hope is that if you have submitted before the deadline, you'll be safe.

RussB
October 13, 2013, 04:19 PM
Right now, my form 4's (and fingerprint cards) are at the dept of Public Safety HQ awaiting approval...I would have to get them out of their to even consider finding another qualified CLEO.

I've read the info here regarding Trusts...I will have to read more and consider that route

SharpsDressedMan
October 13, 2013, 05:42 PM
Why don't you just call them, get an answer, and/or have them send you the stuff back if they are not going to process in a timely manner?

Arizona_Mike
October 13, 2013, 08:50 PM
Cutoff date is December 8 or 9 I believe. We all hope and think that applications that have been received at that point will be grandfathered. There are people waiting for stamps that submitted earlier in the year, well before the new rules were proposed. I doubt the gov/ATF would reject their applications, so the hope is that if you have submitted before the deadline, you'll be safe.
The "cutoff" is the end date for public comment on the proposed regs. Then the legal research starts. It took the BATF almost 9 years to issue the regs against bird bombs and that was in response of a clear intent to ban from Congress.

As others have pointed out, the statute gives them a lot of leway as far as what documentation is required, but the plain language off the statute is that CLEO signoff is for "natural persons".

Mike

rgwalt
October 14, 2013, 09:45 AM
The "cutoff" is the end date for public comment on the proposed regs. Then the legal research starts. It took the BATF almost 9 years to issue the regs against bird bombs and that was in response of a clear intent to ban from Congress.

As others have pointed out, the statute gives them a lot of leway as far as what documentation is required, but the plain language off the statute is that CLEO signoff is for "natural persons".

Mike
This is the first positive spin I've heard on this issue. Most everyone is convinced that on December 10th, the ATF will kick all submitted/pending paperwork back for CLEO sign off. Gun trust lawyers and class 3 dealers all say that the ATF will grandfather all submitted/pending applications, but of course they have skin in the game. The fact is that we have no idea what will happen, but in a little less than 2 months hopefully we'll get some answers.

Arizona_Mike
October 14, 2013, 01:18 PM
I'm giving my assessment of the most likely scenario. I also got off the fence and submitted three more E-Form 1s to prepare for the worst.

If they do require work from all persons named in the trust, in the future, I will set up unique trusts for each firearm and amend them later.

Mike

Prince Yamato
October 14, 2013, 03:52 PM
This is the first positive spin I've heard on this issue. Most everyone is convinced that on December 10th, the ATF will kick all submitted/pending paperwork back for CLEO sign off. Gun trust lawyers and class 3 dealers all say that the ATF will grandfather all submitted/pending applications, but of course they have skin in the game. The fact is that we have no idea what will happen, but in a little less than 2 months hopefully we'll get some answers.

I'm going to bet they all go into "problem status". You won't have to do a complete resubmit, but you will have to wait an extra month for the additional paperwork to get to the ATF.

hentown
October 14, 2013, 05:37 PM
Having a CLEO sign off has nothing to do with CT's peculiarities. It's a federal law. There's nothing "unresolved" about trusts in CT that has anything to do with NFA.

Aaron Baker
October 14, 2013, 06:06 PM
If they do require work from all persons named in the trust, in the future, I will set up unique trusts for each firearm and amend them later.

I was thinking about this issue myself.

Even if they make the threatened changes some time down the road, is there any reason that you couldn't amend the trust to remove trustees right before submission and then amend it again later to add them back? Any reason to think you'll have to wait until the Form is approved to make the amendment? Or will they only need the fingerprints/photographs for the trustees that are listed at the time of submission?

I'm inclined to think there will always be some kind of work-around and that the ATF can't do what they'd apparently like to do without amending the law itself, rather than just making new regs.

Aaron

RussB
October 28, 2013, 09:23 PM
I got my paperwork back from the state police today. Everything is in order and will be mailed to the BATF tomorrow after I have it all double-checked by the gun store I bought the suppressor from. I want to make sure it's all done correctly.

Now I get to wait another 10+ months :(

MasterSergeantA
October 29, 2013, 01:10 PM
Good luck!

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