Why should I buy Glock 23 over Walther P99?


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el Godfather
October 16, 2013, 08:04 AM
Dear THR:
Thinking about picking another 40SW. This time I am leaning towards a Walther p99 for its awesome ergonomics, but I have been hearing a lot of good things about Glock 23.

So why should I buy Glock 23 over Walther 99? More concerned about performance and ergonomics rather.
Thanks

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HOOfan_1
October 16, 2013, 08:46 AM
Price, and parts availability/price are the only thing I can think of. I wasn't quite as impressed with the P99 trigger as many seem to be. I like the PPQ trigger better.

IMO the PPQ and the Ruger SR series both have better triggers than the Glock.

P99 seems to cost about 25% more than the Glock and the PPQ seems to cost about the same

45_auto
October 16, 2013, 09:05 AM
Performance will be the same. Buy whichever one feels best to you.

5-SHOTS
October 16, 2013, 09:35 AM
I have the 9mm P99 AS and I shot the Glock 19 many times. I prefere the Walther (second strike capability, more natural pointability, better ergos, better stock sights (mine are steel glow in the dark)).

jjones45
October 16, 2013, 09:43 AM
I have a glock 23 that I've had for 8 years with thousands of rounds through it with no malfunctions. with the glock you can also get conversion barrels for 357 sig and 9mm. however I think the Walther feels better in hand and you really can't go wrong with either. a ppq is on my list of handguns I want. I just wish they made one in 45 acp


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ScarLata
October 16, 2013, 09:51 AM
I own both. If Glock 23 I prefer gen4 because it tolerates better the recoil impact than previous generations. If Walther P99 then tries to consider the Defense Kit model due to night sights and ambidextrous ergonomics. I like both, P99 AS got my vote, still PPQ is my fav. Magnum Research MR40 is the best value.

Fishbed77
October 16, 2013, 12:19 PM
A P99 is a great .40S&W pistol, but it is a superb 9mm pistol.

That said, the only real downside to a .40S&W P99 is that it can be snappy, but that's a subjective thing, of course. Both are excellent pistols.

Positives of the P99 are:

-better trigger (make sure you get the AS version, and not the QA)
-better ergonomics
-better fit & finish
-no need to pull trigger for takedown
-double strike capability (for what it's worth)
-no problems firing lead bullets (due to traditionally-rifled barrel)
-better mag release design (cannot accidentally drop mag when holstered)
-more durable finish (Walther still uses Tenifer treatment with blackening, unlike Glock, who now uses a different nitriding process with an easily-worn matte finish)
-better reliability (all generations of P99 are reliable, without the issues Glock has from generation to generation)
-designed from the start to be a .40S&W pistol (never heard of a KB in a P99)

Positives for the Glock 23 are:

-polygonal barrel easier to clean (though few pistol barrels are that hard to clean)
-easier to find replacement parts
-accessories can be found in any gun store (though P99 accessories are easily available online)

Mags for both are not difficult to find, though mags for the P99 (or identical ones with the Magnum-Research-branded baseplate) run about $5 or so more each:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/286339/magnum-research-magazine-mr40-eagle-fast-action-40-s-and-w-11-round-steel-black


.

chrisp0410
October 16, 2013, 01:32 PM
Years ago, I carried a full-sized 1911 .45 almost everywhere. Then I started work as a supervisor of a uniformed security company and all my cohorts carried Glocks. Three times to the range with them convinced me and I purchased the sidearm I carried most of my adult life, a Glock 23. Size, weight, payload; on many counts it was the correct decision to make.

But it wasn't a perfect decision. To me, the Glock's grip angle makes me point high, it took me considerable time to develop the muscle memory to present a Glock without having to pull the barrel down when acquiring a sight picture.

The Walther (again to me) points more naturally. The ergonomics are wonderful. Of the Walther models, I prefer the PPQ but the P99 has that same wonderful grip. The 40 versions of the Walthers do flip a little more than the Glock imho but once again, that is my subjective opinion.

Either way, you are debating upon two very reliable, capable firearms. My decision would be to pick the one that fits me the best and not look back. [For me, that is now a Walther]

el Godfather
October 16, 2013, 01:39 PM
Thank you Fishbed

madFive
October 16, 2013, 02:00 PM
Shoot 'em both, buy the one that feels best when fired. I'm willing to bet you'll prefer the Walther. Glock used to have the market cornered on cheap reliable plastic guns, but today they have TONS of very solid competition.

And I have to give another vote for 9mm over 40. Much better recoil characteristics for the range, and the same ballistic performance if you're using the right JHP loads for defense.

Also, even though it looks like I have to say this in every single thread: don't limit yourself on brand, and try some pistols with single-action trigger options! Once you try 'em you won't want to go back. Sig P2022 and Beretta PX4 are both in this same price range and have triggers that are nearly as good as an HK. Why would you take a striker-fired over those??

Fishbed77
October 16, 2013, 04:26 PM
Sig P2022 and Beretta PX4 are both in this same price range and have triggers that are nearly as good as an HK. Why would you take a striker-fired over those??

I can say for a fact that the striker-fired Walther P99AS has a better DA/SA trigger than either the SIG SP2022 or Beretta PX4 (or any DA/SA HK model).

Takem406
October 16, 2013, 04:57 PM
I'd suggest a 23C. Very very soft and easy to shoot! Felt recoil of a nine and not much for muzzle flip. Glocks are inexpensive to upgrade and customize. They just flat work.

ExTank
October 16, 2013, 06:52 PM
IN addition to what Fishbed said:

If it was just 9mm we were talking about, then I'd say P99 all the way. But, and just IME, you may find the muzzle flip/recoil in a .40 P99 a bit excessive (and I like to shoot .45 ACP compact and .44 mag!). But my hands/arms are not yours, and what I find a tad rough you may be just fine with.

Have not shot a Glock 23, so I can't say how it compares "in hand," but doing a website side-by-side comparison of vital stats, the P99 is about 4.5 oz. heavier (empty) and a bit longer/taller than the Glock, and the Glock gives you one extra round, to boot.

So if smaller profile/lighter weight/extra round beats slightly heavier/bigger/one less round, there you go: Glock

If ergos and trigger are deciding factors, there you go: P99

If aftermarket and vesatility is a deciding factor: Glock (Walther is sloooowly catching up with that, but isn't there yet).

Ar180shooter
October 17, 2013, 12:10 AM
I have the 9mm P99 AS and I shot the Glock 19 many times. I prefere the Walther (second strike capability, more natural pointability, better ergos, better stock sights (mine are steel glow in the dark)).
I agree with this. I sold my Glock 22 after buying my P99.

RBid
October 17, 2013, 12:22 AM
I'm a Walther nerd at heart. As Fishbed says, the P99 and PPQ are superb 9mm pistols. In .40, I vastly prefer the Glock 23 Gen 4. Lower bore, better RSA for the round. The Gen 4s are outstanding launchers for the .40. In 9mm... Walther, unless you're a lazy owner and want to be able to buy cheap mags off the wall of your LGS.

Teachu2
October 17, 2013, 01:36 AM
Buy them both, shoot them extensively, sell the loser.

herrwalther
October 17, 2013, 06:52 PM
My Walther P99AS in 40 is my favorite firearm that I own. If I had to get rid of my firearms for any reason I would keep the Walther. I have fired every Glock 9mm and .40 that they make and none of them can hold a candle to the P99 in my hands.

PabloJ
October 17, 2013, 08:37 PM
Dear THR:
Thinking about picking another 40SW. This time I am leaning towards a Walther p99 for its awesome ergonomics, but I have been hearing a lot of good things about Glock 23.

So why should I buy Glock 23 over Walther 99? More concerned about performance and ergonomics rather.
Thanks
You would have to ask Finnish Military they used P99 and now I believe their standard sidearm is G17. I do not know why.

MikePaiN
October 17, 2013, 09:28 PM
I picked up a used gen3 G23(with n/s and two mags) for $450 last month just because I felt like getting a .40. Turns out the G23 is an outstanding shooter, I shoot it dead on and could go all day with the gun, recoil and flip are negligible. I even started carrying the G23, normally I have something smaller but with jeans and a t-shirt it carries pretty good.

Robbins290
October 17, 2013, 09:44 PM
Not fan of either. But that p99 is one comfortable pistol. But if i had to choose. Glock has a way better rap sheet

Fatdaddy
October 18, 2013, 02:21 AM
I've owned the Walther and the Smith version of the 99.
Both would pinch my trigger finger when the trigger would break, just weren't made for my hand I guess.
I'd go Glock 23 or better yet G27 with X-grip and G23 magazine, like the setup to the left.
The rounded profile of the mag adapter makes it more comfortable than my 23 with the same mag capacity
It also doesn't print as bad as the 23:

http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/vv297/lowangz/null_zps533f32fb.jpg (http://s693.photobucket.com/user/lowangz/media/null_zps533f32fb.jpg.html)

You can also do some cool stuff with barrel changes:
http://i693.photobucket.com/albums/vv297/lowangz/null_zpsb0b868f6.jpg (http://s693.photobucket.com/user/lowangz/media/null_zpsb0b868f6.jpg.html)

el Godfather
October 18, 2013, 03:05 AM
You would have to ask Finnish Military they used P99 and now I believe their standard sidearm is G17. I do not know why.
Interesting. Any idea?

shadow9
October 18, 2013, 03:40 AM
Go Glock on this one - coming from a previous P99 .40 Owner...

Also,
-designed from the start to be a .40S&W pistol (never heard of a KB in a P99)

The P99 was actually designed around 9x19, then ported to .40. This is both from S&W Cust Svc (when they handled Walther pistols) AND Earl's Repair service (the primary Walther importer/private service center in northeastern US).

Reasons I know this? My old .40 P99 broke off a piece of the Sear Housing Assembly. As I was talking to the gunsmith with Earl's, he let me know that the SHA is the most common repair on P99's, ESPECIALLY .40's, since they use the 9mm Recoil spring for .40 weapons. Earls only imported one recoil spring, as with S&W.

Also, for the record, it was one of the WORST muzzle-jumpers I've EVER fired.

Likewise, I haven't shot a Glock, but I owned a Steyr M40-A1, and by golly that thing made .40 feel like 9mm. No joke - my friend's SR9 full-size kicked as hard as my M40 did....

Food for thought.

Fishbed77
October 18, 2013, 10:33 AM
You would have to ask Finnish Military they used P99 and now I believe their standard sidearm is G17. I do not know why.

The P99 was never the standard sidearm of the Finnish Military. It was adopted as the PIST 2003 for their special operations forces and some military police.

The Glock 17 was adopted at the PIST 2008 as the standard-issue pistol to replace the PIST 80 (Browning BDA/HP-DA). It hasn't replaced the P99.

So basically, the more elite soldiers get the P99 and everyone else gets the Glock 17.



(As a side note, more recently, the P99 has been chosen over the Glock 17 and others as the new personal handgun for Finnish police, customs and border guard personnel).

Fishbed77
October 18, 2013, 10:44 AM
The P99 was actually designed around 9x19, then ported to .40. This is both from S&W Cust Svc (when they handled Walther pistols) AND Earl's Repair service (the primary Walther importer/private service center in northeastern US).

Reasons I know this? My old .40 P99 broke off a piece of the Sear Housing Assembly. As I was talking to the gunsmith with Earl's, he let me know that the SHA is the most common repair on P99's, ESPECIALLY .40's, since they use the 9mm Recoil spring for .40 weapons.

The 2nd gen .40SW P99 was designed from ground-up as a .40SW pistol, and has an entirely separate slide design from the 9mm version (with much more mass in the slide). I was referring to this version, since I assumed the OP was talking about a new pistol.

ScarLata
October 18, 2013, 11:35 AM
Some pic balance ;)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/Cocoliso/Walther-P99-AS-1-900.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Cocoliso/media/Walther-P99-AS-1-900.jpg.html)

Fishbed77
October 18, 2013, 12:35 PM
ScarLata, that pic is of a 9mm P99AS. The .40SW version has a different slide and looks like this:


http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/d/df/Walther-P99AS.jpg/300px-Walther-P99AS.jpg

MrWesson
October 18, 2013, 06:50 PM
After owning a M&P,XD and Glock(haven't tried SR9 or P99).

The differences are very minor,they are all reliable, ergo's are similar and I assume so between the pistols you compared.

For me I would see the trigger being the deciding factor and I shoot lead so I have been avoiding glocks lately.

I think the P99 is nicer looking if that matters.

powder
October 18, 2013, 06:51 PM
Neither: go for the gen 4 G26/27 or the PPQs.

mgmorden
October 18, 2013, 07:12 PM
I've got a SW99 (basically a S&W branded P99) in .40. Don't have a Glock 23 so I can't compare recoil but I do have a Glock 17.

Pros of the P99:
- Subjectively more ergonomic.
- In SA mode, better trigger.

Pros of the G23:
- Single trigger pull - don't have to get used to multiple pulls.
- Better aftermarket parts/accessories support.
- One extra round of capacity in the standard mag.
- (Subjective) Better magazine release.

Between the two I'd PERSONALLY go for the Glock, but either one will do what you need it to.

Don't know if they're still available but as of 4-5 months ago there was an outfit in Georgia selling surplus SW99's on Gunbroker. Most were going for $300 or a little under. Certainly a good deal for the price. 'course there are a lot of police trade-in Glocks out there in the $300's as well.

ScarLata
October 18, 2013, 07:14 PM
Fishbed77, You Are WRONG.

The Defense Kit Walther P99AS (9MM or .40) includes night sights and ambidextrous slide stop lever assembly.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/Cocoliso/gen-1-2-3-9mm.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Cocoliso/media/gen-1-2-3-9mm.jpg.html)
I own a P99AS .40 S&W Caliber Defense Kit version pistol.

Fishbed77
October 20, 2013, 02:06 AM
Fishbed77, You Are WRONG.

Scarlata,

No. I am not wrong.

Look at the bevel at the front of the slide (where the Walther banner is located) in the photo you posted. That bevel is only present on the 9mm version of the P99 (ant the 9x21IMI versions sold in some countries).

The .40S&W P99 has a straight slide with no bevel as shown in the photo I posted.

If you have a .40S&W P99 that ended up with a 9mm slide, that would be a rare beast - not sure how the barrel would fit though.

rhinoh
October 20, 2013, 04:14 AM
Fishbed is correct.
I own both the 9 and the 40 P99AS. The slides are most assuredly different.

As to the OP's question, I very much prefer my P99AS's over ANY Glock, and yes I do have a Glock. Don't like it.

DIXIEDOG
October 20, 2013, 08:14 AM
I prefer Glock although like has been mentioned a couple times already don't overlook the G27 .40 cal baby Glock....I have a 23 and 27 and the accuracy of them both is very good but the 27 doesn't print as much. Accuracy between the 2 is so close it would be impossible for me to pick a winner, they have both been 100% reliable without a sing FTF in either of them. The 27 felt funny only having 2 fingers on the grip but after the first mag I found it was a non issue and I'm extremely pleased with it's performance.

Taurus 617 CCW
October 20, 2013, 09:52 AM
I have never warmed up to the feel of the Walther P99 or its controls. In the past, I almost liked the feel of the Glock frame. With the advent of the Gen 4, they hit it out of the park. The Gen 4 19 fits my hand like a glove and shoots just as well. My vote goes to Glock.

ScarLata
October 20, 2013, 11:09 AM
Fishbed77,

The OP asked about P99AS.40 and I just want to let you know about the Defense Kit option (includes night sights and ambidextrous slide stop lever assembly) on 9mm 0r .40S&W pistols.
You are RIGHT about the slide, BUT I'm not talking about slide differences. So nobody is wrong. :cool:
Here is my .40 P99AS Defense Kit:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/Cocoliso/IMAG0104.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Cocoliso/media/IMAG0104.jpg.html)

wild cat mccane
October 20, 2013, 11:37 AM
Either way...people are missing it with the P99 to Glock comparison.

The apples to apples trigger would by the G23 to the PPQ .40.


The P99 AS would be comparable to a Sig 226, Px4, 92, Sig 2020, etc, HK P30 or 2000.

The AS is like a hammer fired SA/DA with a decocker. It is just a striker fired and better than the mentioned.

ScarLata
October 20, 2013, 12:08 PM
"The apples to apples trigger would by the G23 to the PPQ .40"
wild cat, I agree with you.

I'm going to add a 3rd apple-tigger: New Steyr M-A1 Gen4

ExTank
October 22, 2013, 07:48 PM
Just wondering if the OP will drop back by and let us know if he'd made a decision.

shadow9
October 23, 2013, 02:31 AM
Fishbed - thanks for the heads up on 2nd gen - any distinction between generations was not made clear by S&W or Earls when I made the calls (~april 2011). Good to know,

OP - I'd actually recommend a third option to you as well - H&K P2000/P2K SK.

They're a margin thicker than the P99 or G23, but everyone that has one RAVES about it. As for full-support? Even the Steyr and XDS don't cover the head like that HK does.

el Godfather
October 23, 2013, 03:40 AM
Just wondering if the OP will drop back by and let us know if he'd made a decision.
Yes. Well I went with G23.

As much as I like Walther it is going to be the next on the list. Glock 23 seemed more appropriate for rough use that I need it for. Availability of extra magazines was also a factor for me and I wanted to replace standard with night sights. So I placed order for Glock 23 for now.

Walther remains on to buy list. When I do, I will test it in my own routine. If it passes my criteria will get accessories like night sights and magz for and then it may replace my Glock 23- which btw I wont sell.

el Godfather
October 23, 2013, 03:41 AM
Fishbed - thanks for the heads up on 2nd gen - any distinction between generations was not made clear by S&W or Earls when I made the calls (~april 2011). Good to know,

OP - I'd actually recommend a third option to you as well - H&K P2000/P2K SK.

They're a margin thicker than the P99 or G23, but everyone that has one RAVES about it. As for full-support? Even the Steyr and XDS don't cover the head like that HK does.
I have thought about it. May be down the road, but in 357 sig.

leadcounsel
October 23, 2013, 04:54 AM
Well, I guess I'll chime in as a Glock fan.

My Glocks all have Tenifer finish, which I understand is about as hard as a diamond. I believe the P99 has a similar finish.

My Glock triggers are fantastic. Crisp and predictable. As good as any double action duty pistol out there IMO. Not too long or short of a pull.

I just love the streamlined simple look and feel of a Glock. No nonsense pistol. Crisp slide action. Clean lines. Near total reliability (I won't pretend they don't occasionally fail - I have experienced the extremely rare failures; unsure of the causes - in the tens of thousands of rounds I've fired through various Glocks. I believe failures in Glocks are an anomaly). Light weight. They all feel and function the same. Mags interchange with others in the same caliber. Awesome to have lots of 22 round mags loaded for action. Awesome to have a backup smaller framed gun that takes the same mags. Awesome to swap out barrels and mags from .40 to .357 sig or 9mm in the same framed pistol.

There is a reason that Glocks dominate the law enforcement and competition arenas.

I'm in the financial position to afford any pistol I want to use for home defense or carry. I've have owned or still own HKs, Sigs, CZs, Rugers, Smith&Wessons, XDs, 1911s, Browning High Power, and tons of revolvers and so forth. But I keep a Glock 35 (.40) on my nightstand and a G23 (.40) on my hip. When I go jogging, I typically take a compact Glock 9mm with a 15 round mag in a belly band.

I will concede that Glocks are not the most attractive. I actually love the look and feel of Sig Sauer pistols, especially the stainless frames, and 1911s. I love the 1911 feel and weight. Lots of amazing guns out there; and I'm proficient with nearly every platform. But I always go back to Glock.

el Godfather
October 23, 2013, 06:36 AM
^good post.

Accessorized Glock 35 sounds very tempting.

ExTank
October 23, 2013, 09:47 PM
There is a reason that Glocks dominate the law enforcement and competition arenas.

I would give their marketing and customer service departments as much (if not more!) props for said dominance as I would their engineering, manufacturing, or quality control.

This isn't to denigrate the latter three in an attempt to slur Glock; no marketing or service department can turn a pile of poop into a puddin' pie. But agressive marketing and service support (especially for large customers like national militaries and large police dpartments) goes a looong way towards making people happier with a brand name or product than they would be on quality and functionality alone.

Zerodefect
October 23, 2013, 10:02 PM
IIRC: The Glock shot as if it sat lower in my hand. Easier to tame recoil and it dropped back to the target better during rapid fire. In my hands, the Glock 23 flat out completely outperforms the P99. So far, none of my fellow shooters have been able toput a pistol in my hands that shoots better.

My Glock 23 is quickly becoming my best pistol (and least favorite). It's not comfortable. But shooting isn't supposed to be. It's just works so excellently I can't get rid of it.

Mines custom. With the Glockworks trigger tuned just to me. SS guide rod. Ti FPsafety. Spring kit. Lonewolf connector. And it's as accurate as my better 1911's.

herrwalther
October 24, 2013, 12:56 AM
There is a reason that Glocks dominate the law enforcement and competition arenas.

Law Enforcement purchase Glocks for many reasons. Few of them are because they are *the best.* Often Glocks are available far cheaper than a SIG or HK pistol in the same caliber. They have lots of aftermarket parts which, if the organization allows, lets officers make it "theirs." They are also very simple firearms to teach. Which also helps the department save money teaching a recruit which way bullets come from. The Glock kool-aid is wearing off in some departments, and it is about time. The PD for a nearby major city which has about 1100 sworn officers has stopped issuing the "perfect" Glock 19 to officers in lieu of a Smith and Wesson M&P .40. But I digress.

Fishbed - thanks for the heads up on 2nd gen - any distinction between generations was not made clear by S&W or Earls when I made the calls (~april 2011). Good to know,

You probably won't find any 1st Generation P99s around. I believe I have only seen one in all the gun stores I have visited and it was quite the beater. However the easiest way to tell the difference is the 1st Gens have a "ski jump" inside the trigger guard going to the trigger. You can almost make it out in the P99 on the far left in post #31. The 1st Gens also use a proprietary Walther rail instead of the ubiquitous Picatinny rail.

5-SHOTS
October 27, 2013, 08:36 AM
Walther P99 AS and PPQ with the long ambi slide stop levers are indicated as AM versions on www.carl-walther.de
I have the PS, AM, LM version of the P99, 9x21 IMI caliber for the italian market: love it.

Jaymo
October 27, 2013, 01:53 PM
You shouldn't.
You should get the Walther.

JR24
October 27, 2013, 09:55 PM
There is absolutely no reason I would ever buy a Glock over a P99.

Personal opinion, of course.

redbone
October 27, 2013, 10:19 PM
I own both and have shot them quite a bit. If you have been shooting traditional pistols tor awhile, the mag release may seem awkward. My biggest dislike regarding the p99 is the rear sight. I prefer to avoid adjustible rear sights on combat pistols. The p99 is a fine pistol, but tends to be left home in the safe and the g23 goes with me.

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