Win 296 357 mag velocity?


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JRWhit
October 16, 2013, 10:19 PM
Has any one chronograghed a .357 mag out of six inch revolver, loaded with win296/h110, and throwing a 125gn Xtp. I'm wondering what kind of velocity to expect. Sources I have show testing with an eight, and 10inch barrel. They show as fast as 1900 fps from the 10 in. I was thinking probably around 1500fps out of a six in.

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Walkalong
October 16, 2013, 10:28 PM
Best I can do is quote Speer.

Speer #13 used a 6" Model 19 for testing.

For 125 Gr jacketed bullets they gave 18.3 Grs W296 for 1188 FPS up to 20.3 Grs for 1336 FPS.

For 125 Gr jacketed bullets they gave 18.0 Grs H110 for 1154 FPS up to 20.0 Grs for 1282 FPS.

cfullgraf
October 16, 2013, 11:36 PM
Not 125 grain but maybe useful.

Chronographed in the early 1990s. 158 grain JHP over W296.

Marlin 1894C 1634 fps
10" Contender 1510 fps
6" S&W M19 1015 fps
4" S&W 586 1065 fps

I left the powder charge out as they were minimum levels in Speer #10 and #11 but over maximum in the current Hornady and Speer manuals.

125 grain loads should be faster.

JRWhit
October 17, 2013, 07:02 AM
Best I can do is quote Speer.

Speer #13 used a 6" Model 19 for testing.

For 125 Gr jacketed bullets they gave 18.3 Grs W296 for 1188 FPS up to 20.3 Grs for 1336 FPS.

For 125 Gr jacketed bullets they gave 18.0 Grs H110 for 1154 FPS up to 20.0 Grs for 1282 FPS.
Slower than I thought but probably more realistic. I've often hear that many velocities are over stated. Thanks for the numbers.

JRWhit
October 17, 2013, 07:04 AM
Not 125 grain but maybe useful.

Chronographed in the early 1990s. 158 grain JHP over W296.

Marlin 1894C 1634 fps
10" Contender 1510 fps
6" S&W M19 1015 fps
4" S&W 586 1065 fps

I left the powder charge out as they were minimum levels in Speer #10 and #11 but over maximum in the current Hornady and Speer manuals.

125 grain loads should be faster.
I will be loading some 158gn noslers as well. Thanks it is helpful.

Longhorn 76
October 17, 2013, 08:24 AM
20.5 ww296 with Sierra 125jhp/jsp in a 8in Python Hunter.
1450fps and 3" off bags at 100.
Eventually burned the forcing cone out.
Really big fireball at night.

buck460XVR
October 17, 2013, 09:47 AM
Eventually burned the forcing cone out.


Hazards of using a slow burning powder with short, light for caliber bullets.

JRWhit
October 17, 2013, 10:04 AM
20.5 ww296 with Sierra 125jhp/jsp in a 8in Python Hunter.
1450fps and 3" off bags at 100.
Eventually burned the forcing cone out.
Really big fireball at night.
Probably won't make a long term habit out of them.

ssyoumans
October 17, 2013, 12:22 PM
6" GP100: 20.5gr W296 with Montana Gold 125gr JHP ran 1,494 fps.
22.0gr ran 1,574

Be careful working up loads, these were safe with my components in my handgun, but may not be for yours.

Factory Speer Gold dot ammo runs 1,503 out of the same revolver. Factory Remington 125gr SJHP run 1,502 fps

ssyoumans
October 17, 2013, 12:24 PM
I usually load 20.5gr, despite it being slightly under Hodgdons min. Make sure you apply a firm roll crimp.

KC45
October 17, 2013, 12:28 PM
Isn't W296 and H110 same powder?
I have used a lot of H110 but never W296.

I have loaded Hornady 125gr XTP to 1,525 fps using H110 in my 4 5/8" Ruger Blackhawk. I don't want to list the charge as it's above the max. I only shot about 20 rounds of it as it doesn't have any real purpose for me. I do load and shoot a lot of 180gr WFN-GC to 1,300 fps using same powder and revolver.

JRWhit
October 17, 2013, 02:22 PM
To. My knowledge they are the same powder. H110 and 296. But I still find data that is different for each powder from time to time so I do not cross data from one to the other.

454PB
October 17, 2013, 02:31 PM
Yes, H-110 and WW-296 are the same powders. In the Hodgdon annual reloading manual, all loads they list using both powders are identical in both velocity and pressure.

gamestalker
October 17, 2013, 04:28 PM
I load bunches of 296 and H110 with 125's and just about everything else, and I've found that velocities are rarely ever consistent with the published data.

However, 21 grs. of 296 and a 125 gr. XTP runs about 1,500 fps from a 6" barrel, slower from my shorter one's. The max charge published is 22.0 grs. and isn't much different, if at all. I tried lighter charges, but 296 / H110 performs horrible when you take it down below published.
My recommendation is don't let the large published weights intimidate you, thus dropping the charge down significantly. This powder is designed to operate at the published data tables. I run published charges in my snubby K frames and have for a long time. And the problems with forcing cone damage is mostly rumor according to S&W, and has been extensively tested by them. According to S&W, it is often the result of leading in cone that pushes pressures up at the cone, not the use of 296 and 125 gr jacketed loads. I have a 66-2 and a 66-5 that have had countless jacketed 296 loads run through them, and the cones are is still in pristine condition. Good firm roll crimps, proper charge according to published data, and you'll be fine, in my opinion.

GS

JRWhit
October 17, 2013, 08:10 PM
Well I just finished my work up. I was splitting the difference between Hornady's 9th and Hodgdons load data. Best I came up with was 20gn. My groups opened up and I started seeing flyers at 21gn. Shooting a GP100 6". That puts me under start for Hodgdon and at max for Hornady's. Whatever works:rolleyes:
Any way thats all off topic, Thanks for all the info guys. Suppose that puts me at about 1400fps. Wonder why Speer shows velocity so much slower than others. I can't wait to get my chrono.

Walkalong
October 17, 2013, 08:13 PM
Wonder why Speer shows velocity so much slower than others.They use real guns for much of their testing, and .357 was one of them. Some barrels are faster than others. I have found the Speer data to be pretty close to real data in my guns, which is more than I can say for some data.

Jesse Heywood
October 17, 2013, 08:20 PM
They use real guns for much of their testing, and .357 was one of them. Some barrels are faster than others. I have found the Speer data to be pretty close to real data in my guns, which is more than I can say for some data.

Which is why I am glad to see the results posted here. Quite a wide range of data.

JRWhit
October 17, 2013, 08:21 PM
Well that leaves a pretty big spread in what I can expect. I am very hesitant to expect too much. I suppose without a chrono a more realistic expectation is about 1250 to 1300fps.
Thanks again for all the info.

KC45
October 17, 2013, 08:27 PM
In the real world there are some fast barrels and some slow barrels with most falling in somewhere in between. Among my 45ACP Government model pistols (all with 5" barrel) there is almost 100 fps difference between the fastest and the slowest barrel when using same load. One Jarvis barrel is always the fastest and one Colt barrel is always the slowest.

gamestalker
October 17, 2013, 10:11 PM
Those published numbers of 1996 fps are certainly not realistic, so don't go reaching for those. I know when I started I was very disappointed until I learned how dome data is compiled and tested, if tested.

GS

454PB
October 17, 2013, 11:19 PM
Just for some comparisons......

I recently chronographed some loads in my 6" Ruger Security Six.

158 gr. Lyman 358156 GC cast sized .359"
17 grs. Hodgdon Lil'Gun
CCI 550 primers

Average velocity for 6 shots was 1547 fps. E.S. of 52 fps.

The fired cases pushed out of the cylinder easily....almost fell out on their own.

GP100man
October 18, 2013, 12:12 AM
Lil`gun works good , BUT it`ll heat up the firearms barrel as qwik as any powder I`ve ever shot . Cast or jacketed.

Great for a few qwik rounds but may cause erosion in throats/forcing cones if shot in bulk.

Pay attention to the heat generated .

JRWhit
October 18, 2013, 08:32 AM
Those published numbers of 1996 fps are certainly not realistic, so don't go reaching for those. I know when I started I was very disappointed until I learned how dome data is compiled and tested, if tested.

GS
Supposedly those are from a ten in test barrel.

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