Commercial Loads for 7.62x51mm?


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moonzapa
October 17, 2013, 01:38 PM
Has anyone had good luck firing commercial 7.62x51mm ammo in their semi-auto's? I own two gas operated rifles that I have only handloaded for this cartridge. My buddy wants to get an AR-10 and he doesn't reload. I'm thinking the surplus Greek, Israel IMI, or British stuff earmarked "7.62x51mm" should be okay. Because of the higher pressures, no retail/commercial .308 Winchester ammo...Am I right or wrong?

Thanks!:)

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jonnyc
October 17, 2013, 03:40 PM
Wrong. The .308 Win. IS the commercial disguise for 7.62x51, they are the same round. This is one of the most discussed issues on the internet, but there are still a few people out there that debate the facts. If you search a bit you will find lots more than you ever want to read.

Caliper_RWVA
October 17, 2013, 10:23 PM
Wideners stocks it, but is out of stock at the moment :rolleyes:

http://wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=18|830|848

While the case dimensions are the same, x51 has a longer allowable headspace (probably to help hot machine guns feed dirty ammo). This can produce an unsafe situation shooting 308 in a 7.62x51 rifle if the headspace is on the loose side for x51 (and thus out of spec for 308)

However I would hope that most modern AR10 and similar rifles are rated for both. Check with the owners manual or the manufacturer.

Swampman
October 17, 2013, 11:27 PM
moonzapa
You seem to have a fairly good grasp of what's required to keep your gas guns operating well for many years to come. It's not just a pressure thing, it's a pressure curve thing, along with a few other variables.
I believe that Federal and Hornady load ammo that has pressure curves and bullet weights designed to work with the gas systems on military rifles.

Anyone that truly thinks that there are NO differences between 7.62x51 and .308 Winchester should go buy themselves a nice new National Match M1A (with NO gas system mods) and a couple of cases of 200 grain (or 220 grain if it exists) Hornady Light Magnum Ammo and then have a ball!

PS: Don't worry about slamfires either, since the two rounds are identical, SAAMI specs have no doubt mandated that all .308 rounds loaded have cups designed to resist that sort of thing, even in rifles with dirty, wet or overlubed bolts!

jonnyc
October 18, 2013, 12:15 AM
"200 grain (or 220 grain if it exists) Hornady Light Magnum Ammo"

Not sure if I would call that your standard factory 7.62/.308 ammo. And any ammo compatibility issues with the M1A would tend to indicate a rifle concern, not an ammo concern.

allaroundhunter
October 18, 2013, 12:40 AM
7.62x51mm and .308 Win are interchangeable. Especially in an AR pattern rifle.

W L Johnson
October 18, 2013, 09:28 AM
Because of the higher pressures, no retail/commercial .308 Winchester ammo...Am I right or wrong?

The higher pressure myth comes from the way they were tested, 308 with the piezo method, 7.62x51(7.62 NATO) with the crush copper method.

The results were
308 62,000 PSI
7.62x51 50,000 CUP (Copper units of pressure)

People keep changing CUP to PSI in the case of 7.62x51 and start panicking. That's why you keep seeing 7.62x51 listed at 50,000 PSI when it should be 50,000 CUP
Tested the same way using the same units they're within a hair's breadth of each other.

As stated above the only real difference is the head space which is only a problem if you head space is borderline/

Reloadron
October 18, 2013, 09:59 AM
Has anyone had good luck firing commercial 7.62x51mm ammo in their semi-auto's? I own two gas operated rifles that I have only handloaded for this cartridge. My buddy wants to get an AR-10 and he doesn't reload. I'm thinking the surplus Greek, Israel IMI, or British stuff earmarked "7.62x51mm" should be okay. Because of the higher pressures, no retail/commercial .308 Winchester ammo...Am I right or wrong?

Thanks!:)
I guess we could kick the can a little further down the road on this subject. As mentioned the 308 Winchester and the 7.62 X 51 NATO are the same cartridge. The only difference I am aware of is chamber (not cartridge headspace) dimensions where the NATO chamber may be cut slightly larger exceeding commercial chamber specifications.

As to commercial ammunition? Take a look at the below image:

http://www.bearblain.com/images/7.72%20Verse%20308%20Cartridges.png

Let's take a closer look at the everyday inexpensive Winchester:

http://www.bearblain.com/images/308%20WinchesterA.png

Note the box end flap. Winchester labels this stuff as both 308 Winchester as well as 7.62 X 51. I use this stuff in both my M1A and AR10 rifles and it shoots just fine. The Federal Gold Medal also shoots fine but carries a higher price tag.

In my commercial and also hand loads I stay at or below 180 grain bullets.

Beyond the pictured Winchester commercial stuff using 147 grain bullets there are other commercial ammunition loads out there from other manufacturers that will shoot just fine in service rifles. The Winchester is merely an example.

Just My Take
Ron

R.W.Dale
October 18, 2013, 10:30 AM
moonzapa
You seem to have a fairly good grasp of what's required to keep your gas guns operating well for many years to come. It's not just a pressure thing, it's a pressure curve thing, along with a few other variables.
I believe that Federal and Hornady load ammo that has pressure curves and bullet weights designed to work with the gas systems on military rifles.

Anyone that truly thinks that there are NO differences between 7.62x51 and .308 Winchester should go buy themselves a nice new National Match M1A (with NO gas system mods) and a couple of cases of 200 grain (or 220 grain if it exists) Hornady Light Magnum Ammo and then have a ball!

PS: Don't worry about slamfires either, since the two rounds are identical, SAAMI specs have no doubt mandated that all .308 rounds loaded have cups designed to resist that sort of thing, even in rifles with dirty, wet or overlubed bolts!

Hornady warns against the use of light magnum loads in ANYBODYS semiautomatic regardless of caliber or manufacturer

moonzapa
October 18, 2013, 02:36 PM
So, if I purchase commercial ammo for my AR-10 that has both the .308 and 7.62x51mm cartridges listed on the flap of the ammo box I shouldn't have to worry about the pressures being too high for my gas operated rifle. I have been warned by at least a dozen M1A, Garand, and AR-10 afficianados that to use commercial, over the counter, high intensity .308 Win hunting loads will absolutely shorten the life of the rifle; that commercial hunting loads are designed for strong bolt action rifles. I'm not hung up on either the .308 Win or 7.62x51mm moniker, and realize they are for all intents and purposes the same.

I reload and my buddy does not. I want to make sure when he goes to BassPro, Cabelas, Midwayusa, etc., to buy ammo for his semi-auto gas rifle, that he doesn't buy loaded ammunition that will short live his rifle, cause damage to it, or causes a catastrophic accident.

I apologize for not stating my concerns in a more concise manner. Really appreciate all of your comments and suggestions. Thanks! :)

R.W.Dale
October 18, 2013, 03:08 PM
If it's marked 308 on the box and doesn't also have warnings about semiautomatic firearms in general then you can shoot it to your hearts content.

Who makes a 7.62x51 ar10 anyways?

allaroundhunter
October 18, 2013, 03:16 PM
First off, the Garand is a different animal when it comes to shooting. It was designed around a .30-06 that produced much less pressure than current commercial .30-06 rounds. I will NOT shoot modern commercial ammo in my Garand (unless I change out the gas plug).

The AR10 will handle any commercial .308 Win ammo without a problem. Whether it says .308 Win or 7.62x51mm on the box, you're good to go. As has been mentioned, the over pressure myth comes from people not understanding the ways in which each round was measured (.308 in PSI and 7.62x51mm in CUP). When you measure each in the same units they are actually so close that they are interchangeable.

Reloadron
October 18, 2013, 04:39 PM
So, if I purchase commercial ammo for my AR-10 that has both the .308 and 7.62x51mm cartridges listed on the flap of the ammo box I shouldn't have to worry about the pressures being too high for my gas operated rifle. I have been warned by at least a dozen M1A, Garand, and AR-10 afficianados that to use commercial, over the counter, high intensity .308 Win hunting loads will absolutely shorten the life of the rifle; that commercial hunting loads are designed for strong bolt action rifles. I'm not hung up on either the .308 Win or 7.62x51mm moniker, and realize they are for all intents and purposes the same.

I reload and my buddy does not. I want to make sure when he goes to BassPro, Cabelas, Midwayusa, etc., to buy ammo for his semi-auto gas rifle, that he doesn't buy loaded ammunition that will short live his rifle, cause damage to it, or causes a catastrophic accident.

I apologize for not stating my concerns in a more concise manner. Really appreciate all of your comments and suggestions. Thanks! :)
You can use the Winchester I pictured earlier or Remington UMC (http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Ammunition/Rifle-Ammunition|/pc/104792580/c/104691780/sc/104532480/Remingtonreg-UMC174-Rifle-Ammo/740358.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Frifle-ammunition%2F_%2FN-1100190%2B4294759784%2FNe-4294759784%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104532480%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104792580%253Bcat104691780%26WTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104792580%3Bcat104691780%3Bcat104532480#productChart) and Federal also has several offerings under the American Eagle name.

Yes, as mentioned, the M1 Garand is a different animal when it comes to ammunition. While there are several commercial offerings they are fewer than what is available in 308 Winchester (7.62 NATO) loadings.

Ron

powder
October 18, 2013, 07:46 PM
OK,
#1.) The AR-10 is an ArmaLite, all the rest are something else: 716, M&P 10, etc...

#2.) The differences between .308 and 7.62 x 51 is not a myth.

ArmaLite builds THE AR-10s that are a 7.62 x 51, with several differing barrel lengths, chamber quality, and materials.

What rifle your friend is looking at is the more important variable: SIG, M&P, ArmaLite, etc., and the barrel length/twist, and the what the barrel is made of.

MilSurp is the better and more affordable avenue when you can find it, but beware of the OFV that is post '75, and there is a ton of other production variables to see in your researching ahead.

The 168gr loads seem to be a happy medium for most 7.62 x 51 rifle barrels, but as usual check with the manufacturer: there is no other manufacturer which details these matters such as ArmaLite. Check their website and the TechNotes.

moonzapa
October 18, 2013, 09:48 PM
R. W. DALE: My Armalite AR-10 is inscribed, "7.62x51mm". I pulled up the .308 Winchester Cartridge Guide from www.6mmbr.com/308win.html. It revealed the following on page 9 of 12:

[I][I]308 Win vs. 7.62x51

The Straight Scoop

Before we go much further, we want to address the oft-posed question "Are the .308 Winchester and 7.62x51 NATO one and the same?" The simple answer is no. There are differences in chamber specs and maximum pressures. The SAMMI/CIP maximum pressure for the .308 Win cartridge is 62,000 psi, while the 7.62x51 max is 50,000 psi. Also, the headspace is slightly different. The .308 Win "Go Gauge" is 1.630" vs. 1.635 for the 7.62x51. The .308's "No Go" dimension is 1.634" vs. 1.6405" for a 7.62x51 "No Go" gauge. That said, it is normally fine to shoot quality 7.62x51 NATO ammo in a gun chambered for the .308 Winchester (though not all NATO ammo is identical). Clint McKee of Fulton Armory notes: "Nobody makes 7.62mm (NATO) ammo that isn't to the .308 'headspace' dimension spec. So 7.62mm ammo fits nicely into .308 chambers, as a rule." You CAN encounter problems going the other way, however. A commercial .308 Win round can exceed the max rated pressure for the 7.62mmx51. So, you should avoid putting full-power .308 Win rounds into military surplus rifles that have been designed for 50,000 psi max...
Nuff said...

MistWolf
October 19, 2013, 01:04 AM
Before insisting the 308 Winchester makes more chamber pressure than the 7.62x51, you'd better know how the pressure for each is measured. CUP and PSI cannot be directly compared. Even if both were measured in PSI, they may not be directly compared because the two methods may not be measured at the same place using the same sensors.

Plus, the headspace of the NATO chamber is slightly greater than the SAAMI chamber. This will REDUCE pressure because the brass will expand to a larger internal volume

allaroundhunter
October 19, 2013, 01:33 AM
Okay moonzapa, you win. Go with that article, but it is wrong. Again, it is following the myth that CUP and PSI are the same unit of measure which they are not.

R.W.Dale
October 19, 2013, 07:56 AM
R. W. DALE: My Armalite AR-10 is inscribed, "7.62x51mm". I pulled up the .308 Winchester Cartridge Guide from www.6mmbr.com/308win.html. It revealed the following on page 9 of 12:

[I][I]308 Win vs. 7.62x51

The Straight Scoop

Before we go much further, we want to address the oft-posed question "Are the .308 Winchester and 7.62x51 NATO one and the same?" The simple answer is no. There are differences in chamber specs and maximum pressures. The SAMMI/CIP maximum pressure for the .308 Win cartridge is 62,000 psi, while the 7.62x51 max is 50,000 psi. Also, the headspace is slightly different. The .308 Win "Go Gauge" is 1.630" vs. 1.635 for the 7.62x51. The .308's "No Go" dimension is 1.634" vs. 1.6405" for a 7.62x51 "No Go" gauge. That said, it is normally fine to shoot quality 7.62x51 NATO ammo in a gun chambered for the .308 Winchester (though not all NATO ammo is identical). Clint McKee of Fulton Armory notes: "Nobody makes 7.62mm (NATO) ammo that isn't to the .308 'headspace' dimension spec. So 7.62mm ammo fits nicely into .308 chambers, as a rule." You CAN encounter problems going the other way, however. A commercial .308 Win round can exceed the max rated pressure for the 7.62mmx51. So, you should avoid putting full-power .308 Win rounds into military surplus rifles that have been designed for 50,000 psi max...
Nuff said...

That article is almost ten years old and does in fact repeat the same erroneous assumption that cup = psi.

Think about it. A 50k psi cartridge would have performance closer to 30-30 than it would 308 if that's the pressures it was loaded to.

Reloadron
October 19, 2013, 08:24 AM
moonzappa:
My Armalite AR-10 is inscribed, "7.62x51mm".

Where is it inscribed? The reason I ask is my AR-10(T) is only marked Rifle 7.62MM as can be seen in the below image. The rifle is about 20 years old and right after I got it I replaced the barrel retaining the original barrel and floated hand guard. The original barrel has zero markings as to chambering.

Looking at Armalite current offerings they seem to use terms like:
Chamber: ArmaLite Match
Semi-Auto
Model: AR-10(T) with Free Float Handguard in Black
Caliber: .308/7.62 X 51mm NATO

http://www.bearblain.com/images/AR-10(T)%20Small.png

So while I see 7.62MM I am not seeing 7.62MM X 51 or 7.62MM NATO for example. Again, this example is 20 years old or so and I haven't shot the rifle much over the past 12 to 15 years.

Ron

W L Johnson
October 19, 2013, 09:36 AM
From Armalite tech note #74

NOTE: ArmaLite’sŪ larger AR-10 series rifles are all chambered with 7.62 NATO chambers. .308 Winchester (SAAMI standard) ammunition functions perfectly in the 7.62 NATO chambers.

W L Johnson
October 19, 2013, 09:44 AM
Even the big boys mix up units.
NASA lost a $125 million mars orbiter because one set of engineers was using feet and another meters. Whoops

W L Johnson
October 19, 2013, 09:49 AM
Tell you what, if you have a semi auto 7.62x51 and some 308 ammo that you feel shouldn't be shoot out of it, send me the ammo and I will dispose of it for you free of charge.

powder
October 20, 2013, 10:30 PM
Well, somebody better tell the boys at Hodgdon that they don't know what they're talking about either?!

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

HOOfan_1
October 20, 2013, 10:57 PM
Well, somebody better tell the boys at Hodgdon that they don't know what they're talking about either?!

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

What are we supposed to be seeing in that link?

35 Whelen
October 20, 2013, 11:07 PM
R. W. DALE: My Armalite AR-10 is inscribed, "7.62x51mm". I pulled up the .308 Winchester Cartridge Guide from www.6mmbr.com/308win.html. It revealed the following on page 9 of 12:

[I][I]308 Win vs. 7.62x51

The Straight Scoop

Before we go much further, we want to address the oft-posed question "Are the .308 Winchester and 7.62x51 NATO one and the same?" The simple answer is no. There are differences in chamber specs and maximum pressures. The SAMMI/CIP maximum pressure for the .308 Win cartridge is 62,000 psi, while the 7.62x51 max is 50,000 psi. Also, the headspace is slightly different. The .308 Win "Go Gauge" is 1.630" vs. 1.635 for the 7.62x51. The .308's "No Go" dimension is 1.634" vs. 1.6405" for a 7.62x51 "No Go" gauge. That said, it is normally fine to shoot quality 7.62x51 NATO ammo in a gun chambered for the .308 Winchester (though not all NATO ammo is identical). Clint McKee of Fulton Armory notes: "Nobody makes 7.62mm (NATO) ammo that isn't to the .308 'headspace' dimension spec. So 7.62mm ammo fits nicely into .308 chambers, as a rule." You CAN encounter problems going the other way, however. A commercial .308 Win round can exceed the max rated pressure for the 7.62mmx51. So, you should avoid putting full-power .308 Win rounds into military surplus rifles that have been designed for 50,000 psi max...
Nuff said...

This is crazy. I haven't referenced this article (http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=39614) on this very subject in months...maybe longer, then suddenly three times in one day!! Read it. Learn it. Remember it. Reference it.

35W

Reloadron
October 21, 2013, 05:38 AM
This is crazy. I haven't referenced this article (http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=39614) on this very subject in months...maybe longer, then suddenly three times in one day!! Read it. Learn it. Remember it. Reference it.

35W
I always enjoyed that link you use. The gentleman explains things well using most importantly first hand experienced information.

Ron

W L Johnson
October 21, 2013, 06:38 AM
So, you should avoid putting full-power .308 Win rounds into military surplus rifles that have been designed for 50,000 psi max.

A check of NATO spec docs show that NATO chambers are spec'd to 75,000 psi. I've linked to the NATO spec docs in the past but don't have the links at the moment.

But anyhow, people who write this stuff should explain to me how on earth, if 7.62NATO really was 50,000 psi, would it then produced the same ballistics with the same bullet as 308 if it really had 12,000 less psi behind it?

R.W.Dale
October 21, 2013, 06:53 AM
Well, somebody better tell the boys at Hodgdon that they don't know what they're talking about either?!

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Just look at hodgdons pressure data. They still list both cup and psi. Maximum loads expressed in CUP max out @ 50k (that number seems familiar) psi loads go north of 60k

All this confusion come from the fact that the military uses a copper crusher test bbl to determine pressure and instead of calling the resulting number CUP as they should they call it PSI because they're the government and they can be wrong.

Torian
October 21, 2013, 07:40 AM
Plenty of ammo around for my m14. Getting it at a decent price is another matter entirely. I usually end up shooting PRVI / PPU 145 grain(ish) loads. If I buy in bulk, it's about 70 cents a round. Otherwise almost a buck a shot. Shot both 308 and 7.62 interchangeably without issue.

moonzapa
October 25, 2013, 02:13 AM
I didn't expect such a hailstorm of comments regarding my post and the .308 Winchester cartridge.

I reviewed the Hodgdon Loading Website for the .308 Winchester cartridge which revealed not just a few, but many, many maximum 50K psi loads. So, the 50K psi equivalent to the 30-30 Winchester notion holds no water with me. (It was thought by some gunners years ago that the .44 magnum exceeded the power of the puny .30-30 Winchester, however, handloading manuals revealed the .30-30Win had more than twice the muzzle energy of the .44 mag).

A further note of contention I submit is that both Hornady and Sierra provide two separate handloading data for the .308 Winchester cartridge in standard rifles and service rifles. I categorize the Armalite AR-10 as a service rifle. I'm not going to feed my AR-10, a service rifle, with cartridges handloaded in the 70K psi - 75K psi pressures. It's a matter of safety and common sense.

My post has gone astray from the original intent of my thread...all I wanted was information regarding recommended commercial ammo in .308 win, or the use of military ammo in my AR-10. My apologies.

FYI...The last I checked, ammo is still sold in KENTUCK, so you won't need any of my ammo for your .308 brush beater.

Good Shooting!

allaroundhunter
October 25, 2013, 08:45 AM
Common sense would actually tell you that a round that produces 50k psi Max pressure could not possibly be ballistically similar to one that produces 70-75k psi.... But oh well.

I also don't think this thread has veered off from its original intent in any way. Just because we are trying to prove to you that they are interchangeable (seemingly against your wishes), doesn't mean that we are straying off topic.

HOOfan_1
October 25, 2013, 09:01 AM
Common sense would actually tell you that a round that produces 50k psi Max pressure could not possibly be ballistically similar to one that produces 70-75k psi.... But oh well.


I wonder if it is even possible to load a 7.62x51/.308 Win to those type of pressures....I certainly know there are no loading manuals that show loads for that type of pressure. The Ultra Magnums even max out well below 70K PSI

moonzapa
October 25, 2013, 10:20 AM
This is my final take on the 7.62x51mm NATO chambering as opposed to the .308 Winchester. The NATO, or 7.62x51mm chamber is intended for "omni" battlefield conditions, where dirt, grime, and the lack of normal periodic cleaning can and often occurs. In my humble opinion, this does not give me full license to feed my service rifle with hot deer hunting .308 Winchester loads. I'm sure the Armalite AR-10 could handle full throttle loads, but to what end and how long can I expect a gas operated rifle to last before I'm replacing parts? If some of you "cowboys" want to load em hot, then go for it. Last time I checked it is a free country, except for paying taxes.:)

R.W.Dale
October 25, 2013, 10:39 AM
I didn't expect such a hailstorm of comments regarding my post and the .308 Winchester cartridge.

I reviewed the Hodgdon Loading Website for the .308 Winchester cartridge which revealed not just a few, but many, many maximum 50K psi loads.

Good Shooting!

Are you absolutely SURE OF THAT

I see NO 50k psi loads shown in the sample below. But I see several 50k CUP ones (excluding low recoil youth loads)

190357

You're making the same mistake people make that started the whole 308 is different than 7.62x51 mythology. You're merely glancing across the data, missing the small but extremely important details and perpetuating the lie.

Take the varget loading a for the two bullets shown.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/FIRE/19A9C7F4-ADAD-4D16-8F83-84664DB96E91-12905-00000E6AA54EE865_zpsde06486b.jpg
It's quite evident of the difference in the two measuring systems


Lastly you cannot go by what your lower " suggests" for caliber. Your BARREL should be stamped with its exact chambering usually on bottom between the FSB and the forearm

R.W.Dale
October 25, 2013, 11:12 AM
http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/SAAMI_ITEM_211-Unsafe_Arms_and_Ammunition_Combinations.pdf

This PDF lists all the potentially unsafe gun ammunition mismatches out there from the folks whose job it is to govern such things. NOT listed amongst these is anything pertaining to 7.62 x51 in a 308

rodregier
October 25, 2013, 09:19 PM
Assuming you have wrapped up the pressure rating of the two cartridges...

Just keep in mind you are unlikely to maximize the accuracy potential of your rifle with FMJ projectile ammunition. Lots of wonderful "match grade" loadings available in .308 Win. A few of them might even be available for exorbitant pricing during the current ammunition "famine" :-) Look at the various 168g HPBTM loadings.

Magnuumpwr
October 26, 2013, 12:31 AM
Gold Metal Match 168 gr BTHP are the main ammo for my LR308, 700 SPS's, Weatherby, and Steyr. The only guns using ball ammo are my Cetme and the 1919A4.
As to the topic, would I be correct in saying that throat erosion would not be a problem using hunting 308 ammo in a 7.62X51 chambered rifle?
Checked my chamber markings and all are 308 with the exception of the Cetme and the 1919A4.

saitek
October 26, 2013, 01:19 AM
better get a ar with a wild chamber like rockriver so it will safley eat both with out blowing up.http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070826234121AAjbZSN

HOOfan_1
October 26, 2013, 01:40 AM
better get a ar with a wild chamber like rockriver so it will safley eat both with out blowing up.http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070826234121AAjbZSN

That would be Wylde...and that is for .223/5.56 This thread is about 7.62/.308

Art Eatman
October 26, 2013, 08:26 AM
In fifteen years of TFL/THR, I don't recall any post about a problem from any purported pressure differential between .308 commercial and 7.62 military.

Willie Sutton
October 26, 2013, 11:20 AM
^^ Precisely, Art. That's because there isn't any difference.

Theory is only valid insofar as it mirrors reality.

The reality is that these cartridges are identical.


Got a laugh about the "my lower is stamped "x.xx"... Uhh.... :banghead:


I'm sure the Armalite AR-10 could handle full throttle loads, but to what end and how long can I expect a gas operated rifle to last before I'm replacing parts?

To what end? None, unless that's all the ammo you happen to have on any given day. But for how long? Forever. Your rifle vents any excess gas as soon as the bolt carrier moves back a fraction of an inch, and that tends to self-limit things. The key is that it's not *required* to cycle your rifle, so why bother? But it's not gonna hurt a thing. These rifles are not made of sugar candy, and are not working even close to their material strength limitations. Not...even...close.



Back to the beginning:

Because of the higher pressures, no retail/commercial .308 Winchester ammo...Am I right or wrong?


One word answer: Wrong. You can buy any box of over the counter ammunition loaded by any commercial manufacturer and shoot your AR-10 to your hearts content for the rest of your life, and your heirs and their heirs will be able to do the same ad-nauseum until the earth is consumed by the ever-expanding sun, thus ending the days of shooting.



Willie

.

hardluk1
October 26, 2013, 05:25 PM
Got go the company your planning on buying a ar-10 based rifle from and see if it does not say 308/7.62x51 or simply 308 in the info on the rifle OR on the barrel. I can't find one that does not cover 308winchester.

Even the current M110 sniper rifle that knight aramament is labeled as 308 in the commercial market. Even the current M1A will run fine on 308

Stop all the whine'n about abiout 7.62 and 308 as it does not matter in the semi-auto rifles made today. Even a buddies new m14 if fine with the run of the mill 308 anmmo.

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