So, what happened between Vermont and Missouri?


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longhair75
October 19, 2013, 10:04 PM
Good evening all.

I am off on a road trip this week crossing Missouri and into Arkansas. I went to USA Carry (http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html)to check the reciprocity maps to make sure I am complying with the law. According to USA Carry, Missouri honors every state CHP except Vermont.

What did Vermont do to Missouri?

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herrwalther
October 19, 2013, 10:14 PM
Vermont is a permit-less carry state. It is rather hard to have reciprocity with a state when they don't issue a permit.

vamo
October 19, 2013, 10:15 PM
Vermont has permitless carry so there is no permit for Missouri to honor.

BobTheTomato
October 19, 2013, 10:23 PM
My understanding is that Vermont does not require a permit and does not issue them. So there is no permit itself to honor. Alabama honors every other states permit except Vermont since I am assuming they do not issue an actual permit.

longhair75
October 19, 2013, 10:45 PM
Thanks for clearing this up

MedWheeler
October 20, 2013, 12:30 AM
I believe Vermont has created an optional permit for those who want one, so that it can be honored in those other states. Still, no permit is required for carry, open or concealed, in Vermont.

Salmoneye
October 20, 2013, 07:43 AM
I believe Vermont has created an optional permit for those who want one, so that it can be honored in those other states.

No such animal...

longhair75
October 20, 2013, 08:28 AM
No such animal...
Which brings up another question: if there is no Vermont permit and thus no reciprocity, what do our friends from Vermont do about legally carrying in other states when they travel?

LemmyCaution
October 20, 2013, 08:32 AM
I believe Vermont has created an optional permit for those who want one, so that it can be honored in those other states. Still, no permit is required for carry, open or concealed, in Vermont.

Incorrect, as noted above. The concept of the State 'granting permission' to keep and bear arms is anathema in Vermont.

Read the VSC decision in State v. Rosenthal (http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndcourt/state/31st.htm) for an understanding of why this is so.

LemmyCaution
October 20, 2013, 09:04 AM
Which brings up another question: if there is no Vermont permit and thus no reciprocity, what do our friends from Vermont do about legally carrying in other states when they travel?

We have a few options:

1: One can obtain non-resident permits from several states. Some of these non-resident permits have pretty broad reciprocity agreements. Utah's non-resident permit, for example, is recognized by many states.

2: Open carry is legal in many states, and one does not need a concealed carry permit to carry openly in many of them.

3: For the other states, we follow FOPA. This is always a necessity, as Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine are hemmed in by Massachusetts and New York, where we have zero recourse other than FOPA, as there are no provisions for non-residents to carry in those states, nor even to possess a handgun.

longhair75
October 20, 2013, 09:21 AM
Thanks again for the answer.

rodregier
October 20, 2013, 09:47 AM
Just to complicate matters, although FOPA is federal law, some parts of NY state don't seem inclined to honour it. Standard advice when traversing those forbidden zones is no planned stops for:

- Fuel
- Food
- Sleep
- call of nature
- shopping

Pray you don't have an accident, medical issue or vehicle mechanical failure.

Of course, planing a route to avoid major population centres in NY state would also reduce your exposure to such problematic state vs federal law enforcement activity.

herrwalther
October 20, 2013, 10:33 AM
Which brings up another question: if there is no Vermont permit and thus no reciprocity, what do our friends from Vermont do about legally carrying in other states when they travel?

Many Vermonters apply for a non-resident Florida permit. As the FL non resident permit is the most widely accepted non resident permit available. I believe it is accepted in about 35 states or so. I was looking to get one when I was still a resident of VT. I am sure there are many Vermonters who would adopt a system similar to Arizona, a permit for other states to recognize but still remain "permit less" but I doubt that idea would get far in the state legislature.

While trying to stay a bit on topic, FOPA is only a reactive defense. If you get pulled over with illegal VT weapons in NY or NJ for example, you can't tell the cop FOPA and drive off. They might frown on that. When traveling it is best to avoid states that don't recognize your permit all together. NY is easy, they are selfish and don't recognize any out of state permits.

Tinpig
October 20, 2013, 11:21 AM
For the other states, we follow FOPA. This is always a necessity, as Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine are hemmed in by Massachusetts and New York, where we have zero recourse other than FOPA, as there are no provisions for non-residents to carry in those states, nor even to possess a handgun.

Actually, Massachusetts does have a renewable non-resident License to Carry. You can get more information and applications by calling 617-660-4780 or go to the Mass. GOAL website for PDF application forms and instructions.

http://goal.org/masslawpages/nonresapply.html

Tinpig

Outlaw Man
October 20, 2013, 02:50 PM
What part of Arkansas are you headed to? There are a few counties that are actually recognizing our newly-gained Constitutional carry, should you desire to take advantage of it. I'd recommend against it in the others.

My understanding for Vermont was also as others have stated - no permit to recognize.

longhair75
October 20, 2013, 05:18 PM
I am headed to Eureka SPrings to stalk the wild trout in its native habitat......

LemmyCaution
October 20, 2013, 08:12 PM
Actually, Massachusetts does have a renewable non-resident License to Carry. You can get more information and applications by calling 617-660-4780 or go to the Mass. GOAL website for PDF application forms and instructions.

http://goal.org/masslawpages/nonresapply.html

Tinpig

Well, technically, yes. But having read the link you provided about the procedure for obtaining one and the cost, I'm going to stick by my original answer.

MedWheeler
October 20, 2013, 09:37 PM
Okay, which state was it, then, that decided to offer an optional permit for travel? Could have sworn there was at least one..

almostfree
October 20, 2013, 10:04 PM
Alaska and Arizona both have optional permits for travel and NICS exemption, though in both they cases they opted to keep the permits after adopting permitless carry.

Outlaw Man
October 20, 2013, 11:21 PM
I am headed to Eureka SPrings to stalk the wild trout in its native habitat......
Unfortunately, I haven't heard anything definite from that area, and some of the surrounding counties (with bigger cities) have been very negative.

This should be a beautiful time to be up there, though.

longhair75
October 21, 2013, 08:01 AM
Thanks for the info, my friend

mhankins
October 21, 2013, 09:46 AM
I live in Carroll County,which is the same county Eureka is in.
Concealed,stay out of the bars,and you will have no problems at all.
Arkansas is a pro-gun state.

Speedo66
October 21, 2013, 02:28 PM
For what it's worth, CT, another New England state, also has out of state carry permits.

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