IDPA gun choice


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cwsample
October 20, 2013, 10:20 PM
So, I want to get into IDPA, but the more I read up on it, the more I think I need a different gun. I love my Sig 225/P6, but it only holds 8+1. Even the qualifier has 3 sets of 10-round stages (if I understood it right). Should I look into a gun with a higher capacity before I go any further? Thanks.

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allaroundhunter
October 20, 2013, 10:29 PM
Most IDPA divisions give you a maximum capacity of 10. If you are shooting a 9mm and want to be competitive, then you would certainly want a different gun.

You could always go watch a match and see if it is something that you would want to try with your gun before dropping money on a new one.

IdahoSkies
October 21, 2013, 12:06 AM
You will benefit from the new rules that just came out. I believe with an 8+1 you will be able to carry a third mag. (Have to check). The new rules just went into effect October 1st. Will you be at a disadvantage. Maybe. But 18 rounds is the maximum that can be required on a stage, and most stages that I have run into are usually somewhat less than that. So, bring what you have, (bring 4 mags) and shoot it. Have fun. After that if you feel like you need to upgrade do so. But come and shoot and then see what you need.

9mmepiphany
October 21, 2013, 12:44 AM
Even the qualifier has 3 sets of 10-round stages (if I understood it right). .
You didn't. The Classifier has 3 12 round stages, but each requires a reload after 6 shots. The Classifier is capacity neutral, which mean it has to accommodate 6 shot revolvers

I love my Sig 225/P6, but it only holds 8+1.
You shouldn't feel handicapped. We have competitors at our IDPA local match who have competed with a Springfield EMP and a Kahr CW9...you'll just be reloading at the same points as the guys shooting .45 1911s

I've found that the item that most beginners are lacking are enough magazine carriers or magazines...You can get by with 1 double carrier and 3 mags, but 3 single carriers and 4 mags makes everything easier

Jim Watson
October 21, 2013, 10:13 AM
First "get into it." Your P6 will do just fine.
If you like the sport well enough to specialize a bit, you can always buy a new gun later.

You will need at least three magazines, a fourth so you can load a "Barney Bullet" to get to the normal starting condition of 8+1 with less handling of gear will be a convenience.

A strong side holster is required and two magazine carriers will do. You do not get a third reload magazine with a capacity of 8. You only have to get a maximum of 18 hits with 25 rounds on your person.
Some people have a third carrier for their "Barney" but it must not be used during the CoF (Course of Fire.) I have been putting my Barney and my first magazine in my left front pants pocket for about 16 years now, with no problems observed.

rodinal220
October 21, 2013, 11:45 AM
First decide if you want to be a "gamer" or take a real world approach to it. I started as a gamer 30 years ago but transitioned into using competitions for practice and push my skills a bit. IDPA was "supposed" to correct the issues from the IPSC/USPSA world.
If your gamer oriented look at what the big boys are using and doing. If you are interested in running your carry or duty gun, forget about getting your own TV show and use the competition to better your shooting skills for the real world.

sauer1911
October 21, 2013, 12:08 PM
Work keeps popping up on the Saturdays that we have local IDPA matches.:fire:

But I will persevere! I am bringing both my p226 9mm, and Sig 1911 .45acp. I have OWB holsters for both. They are Blackhawk Serpa 2 autolock.

Now I understand that there might be controversy over that style of holster? It should be ok for my first run since I'm going for form and good shots, the speed will come later.

It gonna be great!

9mmepiphany
October 21, 2013, 12:38 PM
Several very good IDPA shooters run the Blackhawk Serpa.

I think it was a couple of years ago that the IDPA Junior Champion took the National tittle using one. He was from Central CA

Cycletroll
October 21, 2013, 12:59 PM
Glock 34 is the ultimate cheap "gamer gun" If you don't like Blocks and like a SA/DA like your Sig it is hard to beat a CZ75 which can be shot in SSP or ESP and has arguably the best ergos of any modern fighting nine.

cwsample
October 21, 2013, 08:58 PM
Thanks for all the replies. I've wanted a P229 Elite Dark for awhile now and was hoping this would be my excuse. :D

I'm definitely looking at this as a way to hone my skills using my carry gun. I've looked into the other shooting sports, but they don't really interest me. IDPA was what I decided to look into after I read up on them all. I really like the idea of limited modifications. I just don't get the whole "race gun" thing. To each his own.

I guess my first step is to just go out on a day and watch. I know everyone says "just shoot it", but I'd like to get a look around before I participate.

Gryff
October 21, 2013, 09:06 PM
First "get into it." Your P6 will do just fine.
If you like the sport well enough to specialize a bit, you can always buy a new gun later.

You will need at least three magazines, a fourth so you can load a "Barney Bullet" to get to the normal starting condition of 8+1 with less handling of gear will be a convenience.

A strong side holster is required and two magazine carriers will do. You do not get a third reload magazine with a capacity of 8. You only have to get a maximum of 18 hits with 25 rounds on your person.
Some people have a third carrier for their "Barney" but it must not be used during the CoF (Course of Fire.) I have been putting my Barney and my first magazine in my left front pants pocket for about 16 years now, with no problems observed.

This just about nails it, with the exception that you don't "need" a fourth mag. You can easily get away with just having three. A fourth just adds a level of convenience.

Several very good IDPA shooters run the Blackhawk Serpa.

I think it was a couple of years ago that the IDPA Junior Champion took the National tittle using one. He was from Central CA

I would strongly discourage anyone new to competition from using a Serpa unless they have a LOT of previous experience using the holster. Serpas can be very safe when you are experienced with them, but there is an aspect to their design that can facilitate a negligent discharge if a nervous shooter is using one (i.e. if shooter futz's their draw so gun doesn't come out, their first response is to usually jam their trigger finger straight into the release button...with their gross motor skill-driven over-reaction causing the finger to go right into the trigger guard as the gun clears the holster).

Scott-NC
October 21, 2013, 10:53 PM
....,,,,I would strongly discourage anyone new to competition from using a Serpa unless they have a LOT of previous experience using the holster. Serpas can be very safe when you are experienced with them, but there is an aspect to their design that can facilitate a negligent discharge if a nervous shooter is using one (i.e. if shooter futz's their draw so gun doesn't come out, their first response is to usually jam their trigger finger straight into the release button...with their gross motor skill-driven over-reaction causing the finger to go right into the trigger guard as the gun clears the holster).


That makes me think if the infamous "Tex Grebner" video.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvAxLX6OzE

sauer1911
October 21, 2013, 11:15 PM
it seems that tex used a 5.11 holster with a thumb release, and he said he feels he hit his safety on the way out of the holster. The Serpa I have has the index finger release, that as I practice has my index finger off the trigger til I'm on target. I also practice up and down movement with my 1911 to put the safety on going down and off going up in front of me not next to my body. It may not be the fastest, but for now I feel it is the safest way to present the weapon for firing on target.

Step at a time.

Be safe.

brettboat
October 21, 2013, 11:51 PM
When I did IDPA I used my p226

9mmepiphany
October 22, 2013, 12:04 AM
When I started IDPA, I also started with a SIG 226...That's how I know you really aren't at a disadvantage with a DA/SA pistol

tarosean
October 22, 2013, 01:05 AM
I say run what you brung...

If anything the timer will effect you more than your weapon of choice.

If you have a smart phone/tablet you can download Shot Timer apps for free. While not the best for splits etc. they can be set up for timed starts/finishes that put you under simulated pressure.

RussellC
October 26, 2013, 09:11 PM
School me here folks...based on what I've read here, My Glock 17 with 17 round mags cant be used? If I am misunderstanding tell me! I have an interest in getting into this type of shooting, and need to know if I need to get a different gun to do so. Thanks in advance.

Russellc

9mmepiphany
October 26, 2013, 09:49 PM
I don't know what you've heard/read to lead you to think that.

I use my 17 round M&P9 magazines when I shoot IDPA all the time. You can only load 10 rounds in them to stay within the rules, but nothing says you can't use them. I do load 11 rounds in the first magazine so I don't have to do a Barney load with a separate mag

RussellC
October 26, 2013, 10:30 PM
I don't know what you've heard/read to lead you to think that.

I use my 17 round M&P9 magazines when I shoot IDPA all the time. You can only load 10 rounds in them to stay within the rules, but nothing says you can't use them. I do load 11 rounds in the first magazine so I don't have to do a Barney load with a separate mag
Thank you for the clarification. The above posts talked about magazine limits, and I wasnt sure if they meant limit on number of bullets, or total capacity. There are (of course) several other guns I want to own, but am glad to hear I can get started with what I have.

Russellc

RussellC
October 26, 2013, 10:37 PM
One other stupid question, could you explain Barney load? I assume it has something to do with a single bullet like Barney on the old Andy of mayberry show was limited to...Yes I am this uninitiated here! Again, thanks for the info, I am trying to climb the curve a little before starting with all this. Once I "get it" a little better, I will observe some of this stuff, ask more questions then get started. I have a pistol instructor or two I am familiar with in the area and plan on engaging one of them, where I am certain all of this will get more clear.

Russellc

9mmepiphany
October 26, 2013, 10:49 PM
If you magazine is limited to less than Division capacity (11 in SSP/ESP; 9 in CDP) you'll need to load the chamber before inserting a full magazine. This can be done by inserting a magazine loaded with one round, chambering that round and than reloading with a full magazine to reach full capacity...this is commonly referred to as a Barney Load.

RussellC
October 26, 2013, 10:54 PM
If you magazine is limited to less than Division capacity (11 in SSP/ESP; 9 in CDP) you'll need to load the chamber before inserting a full magazine. This can be done by inserting a magazine loaded with one round, chambering that round and than reloading with a full magazine to reach full capacity...this is commonly referred to as a Barney Load.
Thanks...you got to love that term! Barney Load.

Thanks again for your patience

Russellc

Dr.Rob
October 29, 2013, 04:33 AM
I think the Barney bullet is a silly rule.

IDPA has gotten very structured and rules happy.. and while BARELY allowing 6 shot revolvers while more or less forcing CDP shooters to use an 8 shot magazine.

There really should be a 'carry gun' division. You deal with whatever handicap your pistol or revolver brings to the party as long as your holster is approved. Good place for all the Kahr, LCP, P7, whatever less than 10rd, yet NOT a 45 shooters to compete.

Some clubs will let you shoot "not for score". Well, make sure they score you just leave you OUT of the divisions.

mgmorden
October 29, 2013, 07:49 PM
it seems that tex used a 5.11 holster with a thumb release, and he said he feels he hit his safety on the way out of the holster. The Serpa I have has the index finger release, that as I practice has my index finger off the trigger til I'm on target. I also practice up and down movement with my 1911 to put the safety on going down and off going up in front of me not next to my body. It may not be the fastest, but for now I feel it is the safest way to present the weapon for firing on target.

Step at a time.

Be safe.

He had the Serpa with the index finger release in the video.

He basically was blaming his ND on the fact that he had been practicing with the 5.11 earlier that day, and when he tried to "release" the gun from the Serpa he instead clicked off his safety.

Still doesn't explain why he pulled his index finger inward when the gun hadn't cleared the holster.

FWIW, I do consider the Serpas worthy of a bit of caution, but I used one with my P95 for my first USPSA match and it was fine. Just be careful.

As to your P6, it should be mostly fine. Maximum round count on IDPA is 18 rounds per stage. Assuming you barney up, you'll only be at a disadvantage on stages with rounds counts between 9 and 11 (one reload for 10-round guys - two for you) and between 17 and 18 (two reloads for them and three for you).

I'd use it for a while and decide if you like it. If you DO, then I'd probably buy a new gun after a while, but there's no since in buying a new one until you're confident that you'll continue with the sport.

Rushthezeppelin
November 6, 2013, 09:50 PM
Glock 34 is the ultimate cheap "gamer gun" If you don't like Blocks and like a SA/DA like your Sig it is hard to beat a CZ75 which can be shot in SSP or ESP and has arguably the best ergos of any modern fighting nine.
If you must get another gun I second the CZ75 recommendation. I'm actually using a SAR B6P which is a polymer framed turkish made CZ clone. It has done great for me at 2 matches so far and shoots really freaking accurate. She just got over 1000 down the pipe last weekend and only that day finally had its first malfunctions which where due to my reloads and definitely not the gun.

I'm probably going to invest in a metal frame CZ or clone sometime soon though as they balance better in the hand especially with a mag close to empty. Regardless though the general design fits my hand like a glove and makes indexing the gun properly a no brainer.

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