[Super]

Please refresh my memory, what did S&W do that PO'd everybody so bad?

And what's the difference b/w round and square backstraps? That's the bottom area of the handle, right?

And tell me about moon clips. Do the rounds just stay there all the time allowing them to be carried that way?

Does anybody make a revolver in .38 super?

[Mike Irwin]

This link will answer all of your questions on what S&W did to endanger the rights of firearms owners...

Smith & Wesson's sell out. (http://www.nraila.org/FactSheets.asp?FormMode=Detail&ID=31&1=View)

[Super]

Did they actually meet all of those criteria?

[Hkmp5sd]

Did they actually meet all of those criteria?

Of course not, just the ones that didn't cost them too much. But the agreement itself is enough to make you sick. Hopefully, those days are over. They could learn a great deal from Barrett Firearms Mfg. Inc. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7187&highlight=barrett)

[Mike Irwin]

"Did they actually meet all those criteria?"

No.

The Clinton administration never became the Gore administration.

It's what happens when we get Clinton administration number 2 that is extremely troubling.

S&W has the opportunity to formally break the contract with the current administration, but is doing nothing.

[Standing Wolf]

S&W has the opportunity to formally break the contract with the current administration, but is doing nothing.

I have the opportunity to buy Smith & Wesson firearms, too, but the other firearms manufacturers are getting my dollars.

[EJ]

I know I'll get hollered at for this but--:uhoh:

If S&W lets it alone and simply -- ("openly and "brazenly"") ignores it and the Bush Admin ignores it-- they can then have a good chance of nulifying the agreement without bringing back the lawsuits that were dropped -- it makes sense form a legal standpoint--and is best for all concerned wihin the firarms community and especially S&W--
No I'm not an atty--(but a CPA and we deal with business law a great deal)

That said-- I don't buy new Smiths because I don't like the direction the company has taken--production wise--not politically

I'm probably the only one who doesn't object to their CURRENT politics but does object to their managerial and production direction--

I am anti --- MIM -- Safety Key -- Weird Barrel shroud -- Titanium -- All stainless-- ETC ETC--

I think politically they are now--Under the new managemnent (US-- Saftey Hammer) doing what is best for them and the firearms industry and firearms owners in general-- We shouldn't Damn them for what the Brits did to the company--

[Guy B. Meredith]

Super,

To answer your non-political questions, check out http://www.smith-wesson.com/products/firearms/pc/m627super8.htm for the .38 super and https://tp-commerce.techpro.com/moonclips/shopdisplaycategories.asp?id=25&cat=Smith+%26+Wesson for moonclips and tools.

There are other .38 super revolvers floating around out there with a different grip and barrel. You can probably best find one by contacting members of ICORE (International Confederation of Revolver Enthusiasts). Jerry Miculek of Clark Custom used to shoot an 8 shot .38 super and may also have information on availability of the older type.

Moonclips allow rounds to be carried, loaded, ejected as unit. TK Custom has tools to load, unload and repair moonclips (easy to repair). Moonclips are required for rimless and are available for .38 spl and .357 magnum. They are the fastest reload for most revolver shooters.

[Poohgyrr]

If you guys insist on picking on S&W, then:

what about Ruger- they SUPPORTED AND PROMOTED the rifle and magazine bans,

Browning has reduced and stopped importation & selling of Hi Power models,

Colt did what with "smart guns",

and so on until I puke.

The real issue is why haven't those politicians been voted out? Until that happens, any criticism of S&W is BS.

Aren't you proud of how polite I've been in this post???
:fire: :cuss: :banghead:

EDITED: Some misunderstandings- Browning did stop importation of all Hi Powers for a while, saying our political climate was too much for them and they were going to stop selling handguns. They have since resumed three Hi Power models, now listed in both 9x19 & .40, which is good. IIRC, the El Capitan (tangent sighted model) was listed & sold, but is no longer. My point was they did reduce or stop for a time (knuckling under) saying they were going to make it permanant.

I don't think we should boycott any of the manufacturers, but instead, should vote out those responsible for these laws. No doubts at all about this. :banghead:

[EJ]

Ruger is dead--
so what ya gonna do?:confused:

[Wildalaska]

Browning has reduced and stopped importation & selling of Hi Power models,

O really then the ones Browning is shipping to dealers are all used...

WildsorrywronginfoAlaska

[Poohgyrr]

Quote:<<<<O really then the ones Browning is shipping to dealers are all used...>>>

Hmm, perhaps I could have added the word "some".

Perhaps my info is mistaken, if so I'd like to hear from that from Browning. Check their website; are all the .40's , and the El Capitan, still being imported & sold at retail; why did Browning put out they knuckling under to the politics here in the US?

My points are first, several companies have done things that are "wrong". If I do what they anti's want, then I'd have to do it to all of these companies- not just one. And second, some politicians need to be voted out- but that's just my opinion.

[Mike Irwin]

Already been discussed ad nauseum over at TFL, Poo.

Don't much like what Ruger did.

But at least he did it WITHIN the framework of the Constitution, not outside of the framework of the Constitution, as S&W did.

What the Clinton Administration couldn't get legislatively after 1994 it did so by finding a willing lapdog in Smith & Wesson.

Ruger also helped craft a bill that was a LOT less onerous than the one that seemed destined for passage in Congress. We should thank him for that.

Ruger also gave us a bill with date on which it dies if not resurected. That's next year, so keep your fingers crossed. S&W, on the other hand? No such critter in their little fiat.

Am I happy about what Ruger did?

No, not particularly.

Am I under any illusions about what sort of law might have been passed had Ruger not stepped in?

Not at all.

Let's face it. In 1994, there was NOTHING that was going to stop that series of laws. Clinton had all the votes he needed in both houses of Congress. Ruger simply helped make the situation a little better for gunowners, and helped blunt the worst of the Clinton administration's machinations at that time.

S&W didn't, and still isn't.

[EJ]

I just have to clarify this -- though it really isn't in conflict with the above post--

First--I don't like to speak poorly of anyone who has passed --

But B. Ruger was not a friend of the shooting / firearms owning American --

[9x19]

But B. Ruger was not a friend of the shooting / firearms owning American --
Speaking as a "shooting / firearms owning American", and having lived long enough to know different:

I disagree!

[WESHOOT2]

S&W is invisible to me until they publicly rescind their agreement.

Ruger AS A COMPANY is my favorite, and Mr. Ruger was our friend in many ways.
Not perfect, but who is?

[biere]

There was a thread at tfl that basically showed how many manufacturers have done things that make many gun owners very irate.

S&W as mentioned is the one who made a legal agreement.

[PigPen]

To me it comes down to this. " & " sold us out. If we let them get away with it, it will be a sign to every other Firearms manufacturing Co. that they can do whatever suits their fancy and get away with it.

I will never buy another " & " manufactured after the contract unless the "New" ownership disavows the agreement.

I can't believe we are discussing this again!

PigPen

[SIGarmed]

Poohgyrr,

You're wrong on the Browning Hi Powers in 9mm. I'm looking at a brand spanking new MKIII in 9mm as we speak. I've only had it a month and my dealer ordered it. I'm not the only one. I've seen another person do the same thing at another dealer I frequent.

[Poohgyrr]

They did absolutely reduce/stop, and have since resumed most Hi Power models. Refer to my edit to clear up this misunderstanding of my post. I still believe the voting polls are the single best way to handle this, and this boycott is absolutely the wrong thing to do. Boycotts are usually good, and necessary, but not for this situation. I'd prefer to take this off list.