1911 or Glock 21 for .460 Rowland conversion?


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Big Bad Bob
October 21, 2013, 03:46 PM
Howdy, havent posted in forever been super busy with life. Now that things have slowed down finally able to get to some projects I have wanted to do.

I want to build a .460 Rowland to use as a hunting/woods handgun, for pigs and deer. Please dont try and convince to go 10mm or a revolver.

Given this to be the case what is better to convert a steel frame 1911 (one that they recommend) or Glock 21?

I will throw out that I am a glock guy for too many reasons to list but I want to build this right and I understand that the cartridge was designed first on a 1911 frame.

Thanks for the help.

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hentown
October 21, 2013, 07:54 PM
It's irrelevant what frame the .460 Rowland was designed for. You'll find there's not much "building" involved, if you choose the G21. You'll just need a barrel and stronger recoil spring. I'd also prefer a threaded, compensated barrel.

You'll probably need extra-strength mag springs, as well.

rockhopper46038
October 21, 2013, 08:23 PM
Mine's a 1911 version, and I like it quite a bit. I'm not much of a Glock guy, though. For all I know the Glock version is perfectly capable.

tarosean
October 21, 2013, 10:52 PM
I would probably head to glocktalk.com and see if someone's done it there successfully.

SDGlock23
October 22, 2013, 08:50 AM
I would suggest the Glock myself, it is lighter than a 1911 but it's wider and distributes recoil over a broader area. The barrel will be comped and as long as the supplied comp does a good job, you shouldn't need anything else. If it's a Gen3 21 it wouldn't hurt to get a 24lb recoil spring to help out.

I went a slightly different route, I use a KKM compensated barrel for my Gen4 21 and load up .45 Super to 460 Rowland level. The Rowland brass isn't any tougher than Starlines .45 Super, it just a touch longer. But since the OAL is the same, it doesn't have greater powder capacity, it just has a longer case. To make my point, I can load a 185gr XTP to 1600 fps or all the way up to a 300gr hardcast at 1150 fps and the brass looks fine, and to top it off the very same setup shoots .45 ACP like a champ, although it feels like a .22 in comparison.

I have a 10mm, but to be frank, the .45 Super and 460 Rowland spank the 10mm.

That's just my two cents worth of advise, but if you're dead set on the Rowland, I'd go for a Glock.

hentown
October 22, 2013, 09:12 AM
I also shoot the KKM threaded, compensated barrel in my G21. Have shot some .45 Super and .450smc through it, with no problems.

Since I don't hunt with my Glocks, I have no motivation to shoot .45 Super or .450 smc. The KKM barrel/comp handles recoil and muzzle flip in fine fashion. ;)

Cycletroll
October 22, 2013, 12:14 PM
I would suggest the Glock myself, it is lighter than a 1911 but it's wider and distributes recoil over a broader area. The barrel will be comped and as long as the supplied comp does a good job, you shouldn't need anything else. If it's a Gen3 21 it wouldn't hurt to get a 24lb recoil spring to help out.

I went a slightly different route, I use a KKM compensated barrel for my Gen4 21 and load up .45 Super to 460 Rowland level. The Rowland brass isn't any tougher than Starlines .45 Super, it just a touch longer. But since the OAL is the same, it doesn't have greater powder capacity, it just has a longer case. To make my point, I can load a 185gr XTP to 1600 fps or all the way up to a 300gr hardcast at 1150 fps and the brass looks fine, and to top it off the very same setup shoots .45 ACP like a champ, although it feels like a .22 in comparison.

I have a 10mm, but to be frank, the .45 Super and 460 Rowland spank the 10mm.

That's just my two cents worth of advise, but if you're dead set on the Rowland, I'd go for a Glock.
This!

Also bear in mind a 1911 must be fitted very well and have a fully supported ramped barrel to shoot full pressure Rowland. Helps to have a square bottom firing pin stop too. The Glock 21 will handle heavy loads in a much lighter, much cheaper platform. I have a springfield that I've considered making into a Rowland but it's just so expensive and heavy and I just don't want to beat the crap out of a fine steel pistol. G21 has worked great and is surprisingly accurate.

Big Bad Bob
October 22, 2013, 01:43 PM
Thanks these were the responses I was hoping for.

The Glock route, while more expensive for the conversion, seems like the better option. For some reason I thought the weight of a steel 1911 frame would aid in recoil management, but it makes sense that the G21's wider frame would disperse it equally as well.

I also like the idea of .45 Super. My goal is to shoot .45 ACP for plinking, and then switch to .460 Rowland in the woods.

A buddy of mine is selling a Glock 21C, do you think this would work or should I just look for a used 21, 21sf or new Gen4?

Thanks for the help!

SDGlock23
October 22, 2013, 02:07 PM
Yes any 21 would work for this, I personally prefer either the Gen3 SF or the Gen4 version due to the smaller grip, but again that's just me. If you don't mind the 21C, it would work for the conversion, plus I hear Glock is discontinuing the C models so it might be a good chance to grab one while you can.


As Cycletroll mentioned, the Glock platform is going to be less expensive and I'm not sure if the 1911 kit is a simple drop in unit or if it needs fitting, which is often the case with 1911's, the Glock is more plug and play without the fitting hassles.


I'm not claiming that the .45 Super is better than the 460 Rowland, just that in the right setup it can be loaded just like a 460 Rowland. I went the Super route because I like the idea of not having to switch barrels to shoot ACP, the same setup shoots both because dimensionally both are identical (externally anyways). Some say you can shoot ACP from a 460 Rowland barrel, but doing so is causing the extractor to do a job it was never intended for since the headspacing is different between them. I just want to throw out that word of caution, but if you intend to swap out barrels you won't have an issue.

Big Bad Bob
October 22, 2013, 02:23 PM
Thanks, Clark Customs claims their 1911 kit is drop in, and you order the kit to your specific 1911 frame, which they claim they test before your kit leaves the factory but with 1911's I am not sure anything is "drop in".

I definitely agree that the Glock is plug and play and the plethora of parts and the reliability and magazine capacity and the ease to customize. Like I said I am Glock fan, I own a couple but since this is a hunting/target handgun and less of a combat gun, I was trying to get the perspective of which frame worked best for this specific conversion.

On a side, I did receive the email that Glock was discontinuing the "c" models. Made sense to me. I never understood who would need a compensated .45 ACP and who wants flash demising their night vision in lowlight situations?

hentown
October 23, 2013, 09:17 AM
The flash doesn't significantly affect night vision in compensated Glocks. Those who have actually shot "c" Glocks in low light know this. ;)

I don't quite understand your saying that the Glock conversion would be more expensive than the 1911? (unless, of course, you're adding in the price of a Glock that you don't currently own. :)) With the Glock, all you need is the conversion barrel and a stronger recoil spring. Just for "comfort's sake," I recommend a threaded, compensated barrel. (Not ported, but with a real compensator).

Unless you're thinking about trekking around in Griz country, I don't believe any perceived predators would realize any difference between .45 Super and .460 Rowland. :cool:

Big Bad Bob
October 23, 2013, 01:27 PM
Thanks Hentown,

What I meant by more expensive, was the conversion kit from Clarks Custom guns costs $295 for a 1911 and the Rowland website charges $326 for a Gen3 Glock 21 kit and $356 for a Gen4 Glock 21 conversion kit.

I found some useful information on the Glock conversion, at http://ballisticsbytheinch.wordpress.com/2013/09/23/its-like-flinging-thunderbolts/

The author discussed some damage to Glock 21 magazines and the need to change out the magazine springs.

This gun is for shooting pigs and whitetail, if I am going to be purchasing a barrel, recoil spring etc. I am going to go with the more powerful of the 2 cartridges. Just my preference.

Snowdog
October 23, 2013, 04:17 PM
Good timing. I'm also going to convert something into a .460 Rowland. However, I'm taking a slightly different route with the Springfield XDm 5.25 Competition. The XDm 4.5 (in .40S&W) I have fits my hand well whereas for some reason Glocks don't.

Originally, I was going to just get a slightly heavier spring and use .45 Super from Underwood. However, the .460 Rowland is such a step up in power.

Let us know how your project goes.

rockhopper46038
October 23, 2013, 06:03 PM
Mine. Put atop a Norinco.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3683/10446671706_1c784d4655_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/21042524@N02/10446671706/) Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/21042524@N02/10446671706/) by rockhopper46038 (http://www.flickr.com/people/21042524@N02/), on Flickr

hentown
October 23, 2013, 06:48 PM
If KKM makes a threaded, compensated barrel for the G21 in .460 Rowland, I'd highly recommend it to you.

Since I already own a G20, I'd probably just shoot hot 10mm for deer and hogs, if I hunted Bambi and Porky. :)

Big Bad Bob
October 24, 2013, 10:22 AM
:what::what::what::what:
That is one awesome looking bear stopper Rockhopper46038

hentown
October 25, 2013, 09:01 AM
KKM doesn't make a .460 Rowland barrel and doesn't recommend shooting .460 Rowland through a Glock, because of "chamber wall thickness." I know that there are guys' shooting .460 Rowland through G21s, but I don't know what brand barrels they're using.

I don't have any interest in .460 Rowland or .45 Super. Did have a lot of fun playing around with .40 Super, but never could get it to feed from double-stack G21 mags.

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