20 ga pumps


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dak0ta
October 21, 2013, 06:34 PM
Do most manufacturers design a smaller receiver for the 20 ga to make it lighter?

I was thinking of picking up at Mossberg 500C model for the lightness at 7 lbs and 26inch barrel with 3 chokes

The Rem 870 20 ga receiver, is that built off a 12 ga receiver?

How about the Browning BPS?

I would also consider the Ithaca 37 in 20 ga too.

Looking for something short and handy for grouse and upland game.

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jmr40
October 21, 2013, 07:59 PM
Older 870's were all the same receiver size. That was changed years ago and all new guns have a scaled down 20 ga receiver. If you look at the specs on Remingtons website the 20 is about 1 lb lighter than the 12 everything else being equal. The Benelli Nova is scaled down too.

I cannot say for sure about the others, but would bet most, if not all do the same.

Uniquedot
October 21, 2013, 08:41 PM
Yeah the 870's are built on 20 gauge receivers, but if you're looking to shave off some weight you should look at the Mossbergs as they're built on 20 gauge aluminum receivers. They also have some short barrels available...even a 20 gauge 18.5" barrel with choke tubes.

plumberroy
October 21, 2013, 09:34 PM
The old 70's Ithaca ultra featherwieght 20 ga is the hands down best grouse quail gun I have ever had in my hands Mine was sold to help when we were first married with buy back rights but was distroyed in a house fire. I have never found another (I don't Buy old guns with out putting my hands on them)
Roy

drcook
October 21, 2013, 10:12 PM
there currently are a couple ultra-featherlights on the gun auction sites. 3 on gunsamerica, one on gunbroker and IIRC one on gunsinternational which may be an overlap with gunsamerica. the prices have escalated a bit.

as a reminder, they will have a ult- or utl- prefix on the serial nbr.

dak0ta
October 21, 2013, 11:13 PM
Ok good to know.

Now I've read that a 20 doesn't really do much that a 12 can do for upland. But the main premise is that the 20 ga guns are usually lighter and more nimble than their 12 ga counterparts. And less shot means less meat damage?

Is felt recoil proportional in a 20 ga, less powder and lower weight of gun means a similar recoil to a 12 ga with more powder and more weight?

I was thinking of the Mossberg because of the aluminum receiver and just the load of features that it comes with. Anybody know if they make the 'Classic' version with walnut and high polish in a 20 ga version?

Lastly, how noticeable is 1/2 lb less in gun weight when upland hunting?

frankenstein406
October 22, 2013, 12:55 AM
If you want light weight go with synthetic stock and a mossberg 500. You could always paint it brown with a gloss top coat.

Jason_W
October 22, 2013, 07:49 AM
I use my old 870 in 20 gauge for grouse hunting. When sticking to upland game loads, there is little difference between a 12 and a 20 in terms of power. 1 to 1-1/4 ounces of shot is 1 to 1-1/4 ounces regardless of whether that shot is packed into a 12 ga hull or a 20 ga hull. I've heard that a 12 will produce a better pattern due to the larger bore diameter, but I've never missed a bird with my 20 gauge that I would have hit with a 12.

Of course, I try to shoot grouse before they get into the air whenever I possibly can, making the intricacies of gauge and pattern pretty irrelevant.

Uniquedot
October 22, 2013, 09:11 AM
And less shot means less meat damage?


Jason W is correct in that the 12 generally produces better patterns (better meaning more even coverage) due to it's larger bore diameter, but it's not always the case and the differences are usually meaningless at upland ranges. You can use 7/8 oz loads in either gauge or 3/4 oz loads if you handload or reload them.

eastbank
October 22, 2013, 09:34 AM
i have a rem 870 in 28ga and with the winchester one once of 7.5 shot shells it is a fine upland gun. but i just got a 12ga 2-3/4 only browning upland special o/u with 24"barrels with choke tubes to try this year,i shot a 23-25 at a round of trap with my upland load of 1-1/8 -7.5 shot, i will of course use more open choke tubes while hunting. it is not quite as light as a 20ga pump,but it is pretty close. eastbank.

Prophet
October 22, 2013, 09:58 AM
I have a Mossberg 500 with synth furniture and Realtree camo coating in 20 gauge. It's very light and points quickly compared to my brother's 500 12 gauge with wooden furniture. Great firearms, just make sure the ambi safety switch is screwed down tight. they're a major pain when they come loose in the field (I eventually locktighted mine). I also have considerably less upkeep involved in keeping my 500 clean and rust-free due to the durable camo coating. My brother has to keep his ragged up with a silicone cloth or it'll rust just sitting in storage.

I'm also a fan of the Remington 870s and Ithaca 37s, but I have a soft spot for shotguns in general. :) Ithacas are nice especially if you tend to shoot left handed as I do because the ejection port kicks the spent shells out the bottom. My father has an Ithaca 12 that has a durable camo coating similar to that of my 500, it's a smooth and very comfortable firearm and built like a rock.

jmr40
October 22, 2013, 11:43 AM
Is felt recoil proportional in a 20 ga, less powder and lower weight of gun means a similar recoil to a 12 ga with more powder and more weight?



Entirely dependent on the load you use. You can get 12 and 20 ga loads that shoot 1 oz or 7/8oz of shot at the same speed. If in guns of equal weight recoil will be exactly the same from either a 12 or 20.

But since most 20's will be about 1 lb lighter they will actually recoil significantly more than from a 12. You have to go to some pretty light loads in a 20 to feel less recoil than you would from a 12. You buy a 20 to save weight for carrying the gun around not for recoil reduction.

I gave up on the 20 guage once I found that sub 7 lb 12 ga guns were available. That is light enough for me to carry, a 20 would be about 1/2 lb lighter but I found about 7 lbs was light enough, and I shot it better. With lighter loads recoil is about the same, 12 ga offers more options, better prices and more availibility of ammo. Plus a 12 will almost always shoot a better pattern than a 20 with equal payloads.

DanTheFarmer
October 22, 2013, 04:56 PM
Dakota,

Yes, Mossberg does make the 20 gauge 500 in walnut with a high gloss. It's what I bought in August for my first shotgun. It was a "Cabela's Exclusive" and on sale for a good price. I'm pleased with it in my shotgun newbie, limited, experience.

Good luck.

Dan

plumberroy
October 22, 2013, 07:54 PM
there currently are a couple ultra-featherlights on the gun auction sites. 3 on gunsamerica, one on gunbroker and IIRC one on gunsinternational which may be an overlap with gunsamerica. the prices have escalated a bit.

as a reminder, they will have a ult- or utl- prefix on the serial nbr.
I have seen a few here and there. But not like the gun I had, it had better wood than anything short of the new ithaca high grade guns and a 25" modified barrel . I got it in a trade for a coonhound. I once in North central Ok. killed 6 rabbits in less than a minute with that gun.
Roy

tactikel
October 22, 2013, 10:56 PM
I used a 20ga 870 special field for Grouse for 20 years, it is a great gun. I also inherited a Rem mod 17 (the precursor of the Ithaca 37). It is sweet. Be sure to shoulder any gun you are looking at, wearing the vest/jacket you hunt in. Buy whichever gun feels "right". With grouse you have 2-3 seconds to get off a shot.

45crittergitter
November 23, 2013, 02:29 PM
If you're looking for a light gun, an 870 probably won't be the first choice. I like the Ithaca 37/Remington 17. Keep in mind that the Remington is a 2-3/4" gun. If you're up for an autoloader, look at the Benelli Montefeltro. It is SWEET and worth every penny.

toivo
November 23, 2013, 02:34 PM
I had a Benelli Nova 20-gauge that was definitely built on a smaller receiver than the 12. That was a really nice gun, and I was a fool to sell it. What was I thinking? :confused:

jaguarxk120
November 23, 2013, 02:47 PM
The Ithaca Model 37 has receivers matched to the gauge. 12,16, and 20 all have their own receiver, the stocks are fitted for each gauge, so they will not interchange between gauges.

My 1949 Model 37 comes at just under 6 pounds, unloaded. Handles very well and not bad shooting. BUT then I do not shoot the heavy loadings, 3/4 oz. will break clays just as well as the 7/8 oz..

oneounceload
November 23, 2013, 05:16 PM
I was thinking of picking up at Mossberg 500C model for the lightness at 7 lbs

Sorry, but 7# for a 20 gauge is VERY heavy; I know of 12 gauge field guns that weigh 7#, why would I want to schlep the same weight and not have the capability? A decent field gun in 20, no matter the type of gun should be about 6#, and no more than 6.5.

loose noose
November 23, 2013, 10:18 PM
The answer to controlling recoil is keep the butt of the stock firmly in your shoulder, and also have a competent gunsmith install a Limbsaver recoil pad. Since I've gotten older I've installed a lot of Limbsavers on my own hard kicking firearms.

dak0ta
November 24, 2013, 01:42 AM
The M1 Garand weighs 9 lbs. GI's hunted Japanese and Germans and didn't complain about the weight humping it over at Iwo Jima and in Europe.

I think at 7 lbs, a 12 or 20 ga shotgun hunting upland game isn't too bad. I might be different, but I like the feeling of recoil as long as it isn't too brutal. With the addition of a sling, it should be ok for carry.

eastbank
November 24, 2013, 09:01 AM
they didn,t mind the weight because of the extra fire power, my late uncle fought accrossed the phillipines with the m-1 garand and said many times small groups of GI,s street fighting in manila were saved because they could lay down a killing fire on larger groups of japenese soldiers armed with bolt action rifles. and the same think happened fighting the germans. i do agree about the weight of a upland shotgun and don,t mind 6-1/2 to a 7-1/2 lb shotgun.eastbank.

AZ Desertrat
November 24, 2013, 11:13 AM
I still have and use a 20ga. Ithaca M37....40 years old now, and still a joy to shoot...was thinking of letting it go...but I see so much demand for them now...maybe I will keep it.

jaguarxk120
November 24, 2013, 01:12 PM
There aren't many guns that cycle like a Ithaca, very smooth and positive.

Except another Ithaca!!

45crittergitter
December 23, 2013, 03:54 PM
The Ithaca Model 37 has receivers matched to the gauge. 12,16, and 20 all have their own receiver, the stocks are fitted for each gauge, so they will not interchange between gauges.

My 1949 Model 37 comes at just under 6 pounds, unloaded. Handles very well and not bad shooting. BUT then I do not shoot the heavy loadings, 3/4 oz. will break clays just as well as the 7/8 oz..

...and my Benelli Montefeltro 20 gauge autoloader with a 3" chamber and vent rib weighs about 5.5#. It's actually lighter than a Winchester 42 pump in .410. It works fine with 7/8 oz. and with 1.25 oz. Sorta made me quit shooting everything else. :)

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