50 yards and beyond.


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el Godfather
October 22, 2013, 01:49 PM
Dear THR:
When in woods where it is uncertain how far is your enemy/aggressor/small 4 legged creature (eg wolf) which caliber will perform better beyond 50 yards? I believe in this scenario we need a bullet that can penetrate and maintain higher energy level.

In consideration are 45, 40, 9 or 10mm. No revolvers/rifles for this discussion.

Thank you

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Teachu2
October 22, 2013, 02:04 PM
.223

Teachu2
October 22, 2013, 02:06 PM
In the woods, the trees get in the way. 50 yards will require shooting through the trunks...

el Godfather
October 22, 2013, 02:08 PM
I know for sure 223 wont go through any trunk.

mavracer
October 22, 2013, 02:12 PM
Well a 223 is a poor choice for shooting thru tree trunks:confused:

As to the OP it's pretty simple math that the 10mm is going to have the most downrange oomph.
I'd give honorable mention to the 38 Super I have a 150gr LSWC load that'll do 1200fps from my 5" Kimber and does fine in the accuracy dept out to 100.

Teachu2
October 22, 2013, 02:12 PM
Nor should you be taking a 50-yard shot with a handgun. What's your NEXT poll - When in space, which type of bullet is most effective?

19-3Ben
October 22, 2013, 02:24 PM
What's your NEXT poll - When in space, which type of bullet is most effective?

That's funny.

I voted for 10mm, but in terms of long range trajectory of a pistol round, perhaps something like a 7.62 Tok? Maybe even a .357sig?

ljnowell
October 22, 2013, 02:24 PM
Nor should you be taking a 50-yard shot with a handgun. What's your NEXT poll - When in space, which type of bullet is most effective?

I think those of us who compete at that distance may feel a little different about it

ATLDave
October 22, 2013, 02:31 PM
The 10mm is on a different energy level than the others listed, and is pretty clearly the winner out of those. It's also going to be flatter-shooting than the .45, which will be the closest competitor for terminal ballistics. That probably doesn't matter a whole lot at 50 yards, but it's starting to matter some. Add another 25-50 yards, and the difference gets big in a hurry.

Fred in Wisc
October 22, 2013, 02:36 PM
If you are talking about using a gun to prevent a big critter from eating you, the 5 foot ballistics are way more important. 50 yards isn't a defensive shooting, it's poaching.

M2 Carbine
October 22, 2013, 02:40 PM
This handgun does right well at 100 yards................

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/PLRCarbinesling-1.jpg (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/Bell-helicopter-407/media/PLRCarbinesling-1.jpg.html)

...........when just standing and plinking. :D
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/100yardsPLR1.jpg (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/Bell-helicopter-407/media/100yardsPLR1.jpg.html)

Fishbed77
October 22, 2013, 02:42 PM
I know for sure 223 wont go through any trunk.

I've seen .223 go through a 12" tree trunk easily.

It depends entirely on the bullet and density of the wood.

el Godfather
October 22, 2013, 02:53 PM
If you are talking about using a gun to prevent a big critter from eating you, the 5 foot ballistics are way more important. 50 yards isn't a defensive shooting, it's poaching.
Ever been near wolves?

el Godfather
October 22, 2013, 02:54 PM
Nor should you be taking a 50-yard shot with a handgun. What's your NEXT poll - When in space, which type of bullet is most effective?
Sure why not? You have never been to space yet???

allaroundhunter
October 22, 2013, 02:55 PM
When out on family property I often run into feral dogs. I carry a 9mm, but I certainly prefer to not use it. I would much rather keep them at least 50 yards away so that my AR can take care of them.

If you are 50 yards away from a 4-legged animal (with only a pistol to defend yourself) and want to survive, then here's a tip: Move away without shooting. No need to shoot at it and risk ticking it off by making a marginal hit or miss.


Let's get a more useless scenario for a poll :rolleyes:

allaroundhunter
October 22, 2013, 02:59 PM
Ever been near wolves?

Yes, actually I have. And I have found no need to shoot at them from 50 yards away claiming that it was defensive. Same goes for bears, alligators, and lions.

If I was going into dangerous territory with these kinds of animals then I assure you, it would not be with a 9mm, .40 S&W, or .45 caliber handgun.

9mmepiphany
October 22, 2013, 03:00 PM
Nor should you be taking a 50-yard shot with a handgun. What's your NEXT poll - When in space, which type of bullet is most effective?
50 yards really isn't that far away if a pack of wolves, or feral dogs, where charging at you. I'd think I'd want to drop the first one as far away as possible to give the rest of the pack plenty of time to reconsider their course of action

tommy.duncan
October 22, 2013, 03:39 PM
The 10mm is the best of the calibers listed at 50 yards. The 38 super would be a good round also.
You should add the Desert Eagle or Coonan for your next poll. That should get some of the above posters rabid!!

el Godfather
October 22, 2013, 03:44 PM
Lolz

What I take it there are certain people who do not like me or my threads yet feel compelled to post to make a point.

9mm.... is spot on the point.

In woods with ferocious creatures you dont take chances.

Mat, not doormat
October 22, 2013, 04:16 PM
Remember, an animal, no matter how big and scary, has to be close enough to touch you before he can hurt you. 50 yard shots need not apply.

But to answer the question as asked, silly as it is, 10 MM.

Teachu2
October 22, 2013, 04:43 PM
50 yards on a living, moving target in woods is a different shot entirely than 50 yards on a shooting range.

M2 Carbine
October 22, 2013, 04:55 PM
50 yards just isn't all that far.

My back yard (range) is over 50 yards across.
If there was something dangerous, man or beast in the yard and heading my way, I'm definitely going to be shooting it at 50 yards, or as far away as possible.

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Backyardrange.jpg (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/Bell-helicopter-407/media/Backyardrange.jpg.html)

Shipwreck
October 22, 2013, 04:58 PM
.223

This :D:D

el Godfather
October 22, 2013, 05:00 PM
How would the bullet drop effect the heavier bullets than the lighter 9mm?

Steve C
October 22, 2013, 05:39 PM
All the calibers listed have sufficient velocity to easily kill at 100 yds those things you would feel comfortable to take on at closer range. According to the ballistics charts a .45 acp 230gr fmj at 100 yds will still be traveling at 767 fps. The 9mm's and the .40 S&W will be between 900 and 1030 fps.

The problem with ranges beyond 50 yds with any of the service handguns isn't the caliber they shoot, it is the ability of the shooter to hit what they aim at with the short sight radius of a handgun. A good shot should have no problems hitting a dog sized target at 100 yds with a handgun, esp if they can walk in the shots. An expert shot can hit will beyond that range. If you have seen Bob Munden hitting a target with a handgun at 200 to 600 yds there is little doubt about the proficiency of a top notch shooter.

Steel Horse Rider
October 22, 2013, 10:03 PM
I have a Ruger New Blackhawk in .30 carbine that is almost as accurate and hard hitting as a .30 carbine shot from its namesake. I would also consider the .357 mag in a long barrelled revolver over any of the auto calibers mentioned but that is just my bias.

Kosh75287
October 22, 2013, 10:24 PM
I guess a 1911A1 with a .460 Rowland would be out of the question?

el Godfather
October 22, 2013, 11:25 PM
I guess a 1911A1 with a .460 Rowland would be out of the question?
Good point. Since its not very common like 475 WMag etc did not include them.

coolluke01
October 22, 2013, 11:58 PM
50 yards really isn't that hard with a handgun. 100 yards is very doable and 200 yards is an option with larger revolvers.
While is 10mm is the best of the options, 9mm will work just fine for small animal defense at 50 yards. A hog or black bear would require more firepower.

tarosean
October 23, 2013, 12:28 AM
Seems appropriate...


http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj507/tarosean/0B251328-1DA9-4EEF-81BF-1AF600BBD544-3493-0000038C53E03FB6_zps298e08ee.jpg (http://s1265.photobucket.com/user/tarosean/media/0B251328-1DA9-4EEF-81BF-1AF600BBD544-3493-0000038C53E03FB6_zps298e08ee.jpg.html)

MachIVshooter
October 23, 2013, 02:09 AM
Well, since the 10 has a flatter trajectory than a 9mm and more oomph at 50 yards than the .40 or .45 have at the muzzle, seems like a pretty easy answer to me....

That said, your odds of being the victim of a vicious animal attack as an adult male in the lower 48 states are slimmer than winning the lottery. I've spent a tremendous amount of time in the great outdoors in my 32 years, and been within spittin' distance of feral hogs and black bears, had cougars close enough to hear them breathing, yet never even felt threatened by them.

The closest I have ever been to an animal attack was a frightened mule deer doe that nearly ran me over trying to get away when I kinda cornered her in my driveway backing my truck in. I got out of the truck, heard a commotion, plucked my flashlight out of my pocket and turned it on just in time to see a frantic deer only a few feet away in a dead run coming straight at me. I ducked and covered, and she somehow went around/over me without contact.

Make no mistake; I absolutely carry in the woods. But it ain't the 4 legged things I'm concerned with.

armsmaster270
October 23, 2013, 02:13 AM
I vote 357Sig or 357 Magnum.

rskent
October 23, 2013, 04:34 AM
Tarosean Cute picture. Hope you don't mind if I steal it.

ChCx2744
October 23, 2013, 05:17 AM
I wouldn't engage anything at 50 yards with a pistol...But if I had to, I'd choose the 10mm. I've seen .44 mags and other high-caliber revolvers with the magnification scopes mounted on them, I think that would probably be okay at 50+ yards.

tarosean
October 23, 2013, 05:50 AM
rskent - Its been floating around various forums for sometime. I pilfered it from glocktalk.

hentown
October 23, 2013, 09:03 AM
Those of you "expertly" replying with an air of total authority about not ever taking a 50-yd shot have probably never shot beyond about 25-yds! :evil:

I'm confident that I could easily make a head shot on a deer @ 50 yds with any of my handguns. Lots of others can shoot a lot better than I at that range. I routinely shoot my handguns out to 100 yds, every time I go to the range.

I wouldn't hesitate to shoot at either a two-legged or four-legged predator @ 50 yds.

Oh, yeah, back to the poll. This is a no-brainer...the 10mm, of course!!

Brin
October 23, 2013, 09:31 AM
I vote 357 mag or 7.62x25mm.

Walt Sherrill
October 23, 2013, 10:33 AM
How would the bullet drop effect the heavier bullets than the lighter 9mm?

This is my understanding of physics theory, and I may have it wrong:

Bullet drop is a function of gravity -- and heavy bullets and lighter bullets all fall at the same rate. When fired at the same velocity, two rounds will tend to hit the ground at the same time regardless of their weight.

A faster round has less time to be affected by gravity than a slower round, as it moves from point A to point B. A heavier round CAN have a flatter trajectory than a lighter round if the heavier round moves more quickly than the lighter one -- or vice versa.

What those rounds do once they get there is a different issue, which is a function of other factors, such as the speed with which they arrive, their weight, caliber, bullet design, etc., etc. I don't pretend to understand all of those variables and their likely effect on the target end...

Charles S
October 23, 2013, 10:35 AM
In the woods, the trees get in the way. 50 yards will require shooting through the trunks...

Really.. Have you ever been in the woods? I have often taken shots at greater than 100 yards with a rifle in the woods. Open bottoms plenty of trees, but in the late fall after the foliage is off the trees I can see greater than 200 yards in places.

Nor should you be taking a 50-yard shot with a handgun. What's your NEXT poll - When in space, which type of bullet is most effective?

Really.. maybe you cannot shoot past 50 yards with a handgun, but some of us can. I can easily put rounds on target at 100 yards with most of my handguns and have killed deer and hogs at well over 200 yards with an Contender and an Encore. Just because you are not capable, do not assume others are not.

Of the calibers you have chosen I selected the 10 mm in the poll. However, I really think a revolver in 41 mag, 44 mag, or hand loaded 45 long Colt are better choices at that range.

I will take, and have taken, a shot at that range with a 357 or a 45 ACP, but it is less than optimal. Three years ago I made the shot on a walking hog, a small sow - 65#, at 53 steps (witnessed) with my 45 ACP. It did fine. Of course it was down hill and walking strait away.

M2 Carbine
October 23, 2013, 10:51 AM
You don't need no stinking 45, 9mm, 10mm at 50 yards.
A 380 Micro Desert Eagle will do just fine. :neener:


Standing, two hands at 52 yards.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/MDEat50yards-1_zps4c84aa5d.jpg (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/Bell-helicopter-407/media/MDEat50yards-1_zps4c84aa5d.jpg.html)


http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/52yards38Smith.jpg (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/Bell-helicopter-407/media/52yards38Smith.jpg.html)

Teachu2
October 23, 2013, 03:50 PM
Really.. Have you ever been in the woods? I have often taken shots at greater than 100 yards with a rifle in the woods. Open bottoms plenty of trees, but in the late fall after the foliage is off the trees I can see greater than 200 yards in places.



Really.. maybe you cannot shoot past 50 yards with a handgun, but some of us can. I can easily put rounds on target at 100 yards with most of my handguns and have killed deer and hogs at well over 200 yards with an Contender and an Encore. Just because you are not capable, do not assume others are not.

Of the calibers you have chosen I selected the 10 mm in the poll. However, I really think a revolver in 41 mag, 44 mag, or hand loaded 45 long Colt are better choices at that range.

I will take, and have taken, a shot at that range with a 357 or a 45 ACP, but it is less than optimal. Three years ago I made the shot on a walking hog, a small sow - 65#, at 53 steps (witnessed) with my 45 ACP. It did fine. Of course it was down hill and walking strait away.

It appears we differ on our interpretation of "the woods". Most of the wooded areas I've hunted in are dense enough to make such shots unreasonable. I have shot autoloading handguns (we are in that forum) at distances exceeding 100 yards in open country, but would choose a rifle for hunting.

Now, when you shoot a hog that's walking away - where do you hit it? Does it kill 'em quick when you shoot 'em in the ass?

el Godfather
October 23, 2013, 03:56 PM
You don't need no stinking 45, 9mm, 10mm at 50 yards.
A 380 Micro Desert Eagle will do just fine. :neener:


Standing, two hands at 52 yards.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/MDEat50yards-1_zps4c84aa5d.jpg (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/Bell-helicopter-407/media/MDEat50yards-1_zps4c84aa5d.jpg.html)


http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/52yards38Smith.jpg (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/Bell-helicopter-407/media/52yards38Smith.jpg.html)
Nice shots.
And people go on lengths to tell us how weak is 380

Charles S
October 23, 2013, 04:00 PM
It appears we differ on our interpretation of "the woods". Most of the wooded areas I've hunted in are dense enough to make such shots unreasonable.

Well... In my experience woods can vary... I hunt, at times in early growth pine thickets that a 30 yard shot would be tough, I hunt in deciduous forest and in the early season a 50 yard shot is tough secondary to foliage, I hunt in hardwood bottoms where I can easily see over 200 yards even early in the season. Hardwood bottoms do qualify as the woods, do they not?

Maybe the woods you hunt in are always so dense you cannot see. That is not the case in Texas, or Louisiana or, Arkansas, or Oklahoma.

Now, when you shoot a hog that's walking away - where do you hit it? Does it kill 'em quick when you shoot 'em in the ass?

Well, as I was in an elevated position and the hog was walking down the hill, when it raised it's head I shot it at the base of the brain (the back of the head). It died on the spot. I have never tried a low body shot (some people refer to that as a Texas heart shot) even with a rifle, so I have no experience regarding that.

allaroundhunter
October 23, 2013, 04:48 PM
Nice shots.
And people go on lengths to tell us how weak is 380

Just because the bullet travels 53 yards means that it isn't weak? Okay :rolleyes:

Dnaltrop
October 23, 2013, 05:04 PM
If 50 yards+ with no warning of the need to shoot at that range, I'd pick the 10mm.

With enough warning beforehand I'll stick to my .45 colt and just dial the sights in.

19-3Ben
October 23, 2013, 05:48 PM
Just because the bullet travels 53 yards means that it isn't weak? Okay :rolleyes:
I'll add to that, that one could throw a baseball 53 yards. Doesn't mean I'd want to count on a tossed baseball to stop an attacker.

And I do carry a .380 pretty often. I'm just not under any illusion that it is "powerful" even by handgun standards.

Teachu2
October 23, 2013, 07:41 PM
Well... In my experience woods can vary... I hunt, at times in early growth pine thickets that a 30 yard shot would be tough, I hunt in deciduous forest and in the early season a 50 yard shot is tough secondary to foliage, I hunt in hardwood bottoms where I can easily see over 200 yards even early in the season. Hardwood bottoms do qualify as the woods, do they not?

Maybe the woods you hunt in are always so dense you cannot see. That is not the case in Texas, or Louisiana or, Arkansas, or Oklahoma.



Well, as I was in an elevated position and the hog was walking down the hill, when it raised it's head I shot it at the base of the brain (the back of the head). It died on the spot. I have never tried a low body shot (some people refer to that as a Texas heart shot) even with a rifle, so I have no experience regarding that.
I've never been to your neck of the woods. When I think of woods, I think of M2Carbine's photo.

Thanks for the clarification on the pig. I'm looking at some mountain property to move to, and will have wild pigs to deal with - along with quail, cottontails, ground squirrels, raccoons, bobcats, coyotes, deer, and even the occasional mountain lion.

Jaxondog
October 23, 2013, 08:08 PM
I've seen .223 go through a 12" tree trunk easily.

It depends entirely on the bullet and density of the wood.
Yeah, maybe Balsa wood. :D

Hangingrock
October 23, 2013, 08:41 PM
The various sportsmen's clubs,range organizations and etcetera that I've been associated with thru the decades the 50yd line is the least used in in conventional pistol shooting endeavors. That said those that shoot 50yds and beyond on a regular basis are a minority as opposed to a majority. When the subject of shooting distances is broached there are apparently more individuals in this endeavor then I've observed in the last forty plus years of shooting. Mostly what I've observed is people shooting at spitting distances. I realize there are long range shooting competitions and endeavors for the most part that are shot with dedicated equipment.

M2 Carbine
October 23, 2013, 11:23 PM
And I do carry a .380 pretty often. I'm just not under any illusion that it is "powerful" even by handgun standards.


I put myself in the position of the guy being shot.
Now am I tough enough to take a couple 22LR, or 380, 9mm, etc, in the chest and still have much fight left?

Maybe I'm just a sissy, but I doubt it. :)


At 52 yards, from the short barrel guns like this SIG P238, the .380 bullets flatten when hitting the steel. I call them "dimes". (The SIG P238 was a accurate small gun)

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/SIG50yddimes.jpg (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/Bell-helicopter-407/media/SIG50yddimes.jpg.html)
























'

gym
October 23, 2013, 11:29 PM
Perform how. The 9 may not be the most powerful by far, but it shoots relatively flat at 100 yards, I think for a target round it would be fine, but for dropping an animal the 10 would be better although not that much better.

el Godfather
October 23, 2013, 11:32 PM
I'll add to that, that one could throw a baseball 53 yards. Doesn't mean I'd want to count on a tossed baseball to stop an attacker.

And I do carry a .380 pretty often. I'm just not under any illusion that it is "powerful" even by handgun standards.
Look at the steel plate- if I could do that to a steel plate with a baseball at 50 yards, then I will carry a couple golf balls for the heck of it as back up. Lets not get away from the topic.

This answers your point as well allroun[].,...

el Godfather
October 23, 2013, 11:35 PM
Perform how. The 9 may not be the most powerful by far, but it shoots relatively flat at 100 yards, I think for a target round it would be fine, but for dropping an animal the 10 would be better although not that much better.
You have a point. My cousin a couple of month ago shot and killed a few wild stray dogs near his ranch with a 9 at about 40-70 yards.

And about 2 years my another cousin did the same to a jackal with a .32acp.

Walt Sherrill
October 24, 2013, 08:52 AM
I put myself in the position of the guy being shot.
Now am I tough enough to take a couple 22LR, or 380, 9mm, etc, in the chest and still have much fight left?

Maybe I'm just a sissy, but I doubt it.

All the studies I've seen suggest that some folks will stop immediately when they realize they've been shot. Others won't.

Who won't? Those who don't feel the pain or don't care about the pain -- and that seems to be a pretty common thing if the person is ANGRY, is on drugs, or is simply VERY EXCITED. If they've been shot before, they aren't as likely to be put off by getting hit, either. You're assuming that your opponent (or opponetns) are rational and sensible, like you -- and that's not always going to be true.

The person or persons you've shot -- even if shot directly in the heart -- might not STOP their attack before they get to you. All of this is true whether you're using a .22 or .44 magnum. Just because a person is shot, perhaps fatally, doesn't mean they'll stop or that you're out of danger. It can take more time than you've got for the bad guy to quit being a danger to you.

Don't fool yourself about the deterrent effect of hitting someone with multiple shots of any handgun round -- unless you get lucky and hit the central nervous system (or brain). Then, too, head shots are probably the hardest shots to make successfully, and almost nobody recommends TRYING that when you're under pressure or stressed.

(All of the reading I've done on this topic over the past month or so makes me want to pack a semi-auto long gun...or a shot gun. Concealed carry permits generally don't allow that. <grin>)

wow6599
October 24, 2013, 09:02 AM
Your cousin killed a jackal with a .32acp at 40 - 70 yards......what was the firearm he used? And I'm guessing he lives in Africa or Asia?

Outstanding stuff here.

19-3Ben
October 24, 2013, 09:37 AM
Look at the steel plate- if I could do that to a steel plate

I see lead splashes from the bullets striking. I don't see any damage to the steel plate. Not that damaging a steel plate is a necessary feature of good carry ammo, I just don't see that you mean when you're telling me look at the steel plate. All I'm seeing is that the bullet struck it. Now with M2 Carbine's no pics, I can see that the bullet even flattened. I don't know how much force is needed to make a lead bullet flatten though...

Like I said, I carry .380 and I think the round has an awful lot going for it, as a round in deep concealment guns to be used at close ranges. Anything beyond that, and I'd rather step it up just a notch.

el Godfather
October 24, 2013, 03:20 PM
Your cousin killed a jackal with a .32acp at 40 - 70 yards......what was the firearm he used? And I'm guessing he lives in Africa or Asia?

Outstanding stuff here.
If not mistaken I think (guessing will ask him when he returns from his trip) he used either llma, star or a walther. Yes he lives in Asia.

Robbins290
October 24, 2013, 05:24 PM
I think all but the 45 would be good in the right platform

el Godfather
October 24, 2013, 05:40 PM
I think all but the 45 would be good in the right platform
This is interesting. Please elaborate.

huntsman
October 24, 2013, 06:04 PM
I voted for .45acp with the a specific ammo, BB 255gr HC FN

Robbins290
October 25, 2013, 05:32 AM
El godfather, i think the 45 would loose speed and drop too quick. I havent tried 50 yards. But i did do 75 yards with all my handguns. All the 45's did poor. Compared to 9mm, 7.62x25 and 357 sig.

JRWhit
October 25, 2013, 07:20 AM
I vote none of the above, the question is just to general. There is a myriad of differing barrel lengths and platforms that completely change the dynamic.
A 10" revolver chambered .357 magnum is going to out shoot Commander sized 1911 in 45acp. And a full frame 1911 in 45 acp is likely to out shoot a .357 snubby air weight.
Accuracy beyond 50yds is in my opinion, going to have more to do with the platform in use than the chambering. Some may be known for accuracy over others, but that could well be due to the platforms available and not the capability of the cartridge.

cfullgraf
October 25, 2013, 07:38 AM
I voted "None of the above".

If i knew I was going out where I might make a 50 yard shot, i would have a 6" or longer revolver.

I used to shoot IHMSA silhouette with a revolver and it is amazing the how much the sights get changed over the course of fire.

50 yard shots are not out of the question even with 380 ACP as shown, but if you have not practiced them knowing where to place your sights, you are wasting ammunition walking the shots on target. We are not talking flat shooting rifles here.

If the animal is charging, I would wait until it is closer and so that more hits were possible.

But, my opinion and $5 will get you a desiger coffee.

Steel Horse Rider
October 25, 2013, 09:27 PM
The penetration of the .380 standard round is not very much at 25 yards. When I first bought my Sig 232 it would not penetrate the back side of a plastic 5 gallon bucket at 25yards which disappointed me greatly. After reloading a batch (not with the max load but close to) I was much more favorably impressed with the power of the .380. A shot from 10 feet into the skull is going to stop anyone.......

Warp
October 25, 2013, 09:39 PM
Rifle.

Shotgun.

Big more magnum revolver

Small/Medium bore magnum revolver

Whatever you have.

Walt Sherrill
October 25, 2013, 10:06 PM
After reloading a batch (not with the max load but close to) I was much more favorably impressed with the power of the .380. A shot from 10 feet into the skull is going to stop anyone.......

Probably so. But that likely would be the case with a .22 or .25, too. The problem is getting that shot into the skull... of a moving target who may moving toward you erratically, or who has caught you by surprise from the back or side, etc., etc.

You can't PLAN for head shots -- you can only HOPE for them. (But that's true regardless of the caliber.)

TimboKhan
October 25, 2013, 10:38 PM
Uh... It seems to me like maybe this has run it's course? Has it? I don't really want to close it, but maybe this last page of discussion is pretty far off the original question....

allaroundhunter
October 25, 2013, 11:06 PM
I'm pretty sure there's no where else for this to go...

2zulu1
October 25, 2013, 11:52 PM
I've been in situations where I've taken long shots with a pistol. I didn't vote, for me it's platform based rather than caliber, to a point.

About 18 months ago I was out early in the morning working my German Shepherd. About two miles away a couple thousand sandhill cranes were lifting up from a couple of pivots (irrigated quarter sections) making quite a racket. A coyote came through the fence r-l at some distance and then changed direction, trotting toward us. The German Shepherd and I have shared about twelve rounds together, including automatic weapons fire, so he knew the drill when I drew my Colt 1911 in .38Super. Handloaded with .357cal XTPs, MV is ~1496fps, N105 powder, <33,350psi operating pressure.

I guesstimated ~80 yards when I fired the shot. Coyotes are extremely unpredictable in their behavior, especially with dogs. I bracketed the coyote's ears on both sides of the front sight, it's a tough shot to make, but the Super is very flat shooting and that's a necessity when making a frontal shot on a moving target. I was slightly off on my shot, the XTP tearing into its left shoulder, distance turned out to be 95 yards.

At that distance, 9s, 40s and 45s will have too much holdover to see the target, the sights will block the target. The 10mm will work fine with high velocity ammunition AND a narrow front post, G20 would have been iffy for me at that distance because I tend to carry 180gr JHPs or 200gr WFNs, plus the front post is relatively wide.

The yellow dog to the left of the t-post was 75+ yards away. After taking the picture it was confirmed that it was the leader of a feral dog pack that had killed livestock.

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g474/aztrekker511/Yellowdog026-1.jpg

As we can see, this ~70# dog didn't present much of a target profile, but larger than a coyote. Had I known that it was involved in killing livestock and there wasn't a home about a quarter mile away, I would have taken the shot with the Colt .38Super.

I've had night time mountain lion encounters at varying distances and have ordered a custom 1911 tactical commander (light rail) in 10mm. Now I have high velocity 125gr Barnes JHPs (1500fps+) for long distance shots and 200gr WFNs for bigger threats and brush. :)

Except for bears, the .38Super gives hammer of Thor performance on top tier 4 legged predators. The .357cal/125gr XTP is a wicked combination in the Super.

9mmepiphany
October 25, 2013, 11:59 PM
After an hour without comment, I think it is time to say goodnight

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