D.C. businessman faces two years in jail for unregistered ammunition, brass casing


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steelerdude99
October 23, 2013, 02:00 PM
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/23/miller-dc-businessman-faces-two-years-jail-unregis/#ixzz2iZ6NoSDz

This is sad situation. This man is being charged for having ammo (not an actual firearm): The text below is from the above link.

Mark Witaschek, a successful financial adviser with no criminal record, is facing two years in prison for possession of unregistered ammunition after D.C. police raided his house looking for guns. Mr. Witaschek has never had a firearm in the city, but he is being prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The trial starts on Nov. 4.

chuck

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Sam1911
October 23, 2013, 02:12 PM
Yes, it is a sad situation. And, unfortunately, that is exactly what the law in the District says.

littlebluevette
October 23, 2013, 02:15 PM
It's getting harder and harder to believe this country is the "land of the free" and not a police state when you read stories like that.

gdcpony
October 23, 2013, 02:17 PM
Another reason not to live in our capital.

Sam1911
October 23, 2013, 02:18 PM
The thing is, that's been the law in D.C. for a long time. This is nothing new.

KMatch
October 23, 2013, 02:44 PM
Anyone who didn't read the article needs to do so. The amount of physical damage to the house, emotional damage to the family, ridiculous over-use of manpower... 30 officers in full riot gear based on a ticked ex-wife whose complaint was found to be without merit?

littlebluevette
October 23, 2013, 02:48 PM
Anyone who didn't read the article needs to do so. The amount of physical damage to the house, emotional damage to the family, ridiculous over-use of manpower... 30 officers in full riot gear based on a ticked ex-wife whose complaint was found to be without merit?
Exactly

gdcpony
October 23, 2013, 03:02 PM
After entering the house, the police immediately went upstairs, pointed guns at the heads of Mr. Witaschek and his girlfriend, Bonnie Harris, and demanded they surrender, facedown and be handcuffed.

In recalling what followed, Mr. Witaschek became visibly emotional in describing how the police treated him, Ms. Harris and the four children in the house.

His 16-year-old son was in the shower when the police arrived. “They used a battering ram to bash down the bathroom door and pull him out of the shower, naked,” said his father. “The police put all the children together in a room, while we were handcuffed upstairs. I could hear them crying, not knowing what was happening.”

...

The police shut down the streets for blocks and spent more than two hours going over every inch of his house. “They tossed the place,” said Mr. Witaschek. He provided photos that he took of his home after the raid to document the damage, which he estimated at $10,000.

The police found no guns in the house, but did write on the warrant that four items were discovered: “One live round of 12-gauge shotgun ammunition,” which was an inoperable shell that misfired during a hunt years earlier. Mr. Witaschek had kept it as a souvenir. “One handgun holster” was found, which is perfectly legal.

“One expended round of .270 caliber ammunition,” which was a spent brass casing. The police uncovered “one box of Knight bullets for reloading.” These are actually not for reloading, but are used in antique-replica, single-shot, muzzle-loading rifles.




From the article for those who don't realize how bad this was over something so minor that should never have been against the law in the first place

Blackstone
October 23, 2013, 03:41 PM
So all that for essentially a misfired 12-gauge round...

Ryanxia
October 23, 2013, 03:54 PM
That's ridiculous. Naked son in the shower taken down after they hit the bathroom door with a battering ram!

So many things American citizens could do to deter them from these frequent invasions but this being THR I'll keep my comments to myself.

ATLDave
October 23, 2013, 04:21 PM
When I went to school in D.C., I lived in fear that a piece of ammunition from a holiday shooting outing with my dad and brother would stick in a coat pocket, trouser cuff, or under a car floor mat, and make me a felon when I returned to school. Just ridiculous.

ngnrd
October 23, 2013, 04:39 PM
Just curious... would a mis-fired cartridge/shell be considered 'inert', or 'live' ammo?

bainter1212
October 23, 2013, 04:42 PM
When I went to school in D.C., I lived in fear that a piece of ammunition from a holiday shooting outing with my dad and brother would stick in a coat pocket, trouser cuff, or under a car floor mat, and make me a felon when I returned to school. Just ridiculous.

Right?

I spilled a brick of .22 years ago in my car and I am still finding it occasionally in the oddest spots.

Hopefully a good judge throws this out of court with prejudice....

Willie Sutton
October 23, 2013, 04:44 PM
This is obscene. We are truly becoming two nations.


Willie

.

mr.trooper
October 23, 2013, 04:47 PM
I am profoundly saddened by how far we have fallen.

The nations capitol is supposed to be a tangible vision of america - an phisical example of the American ideal.

Every day it becomes more difficult to continue waving the flag, and believing in America as the "Land of the free".

Old Shooter
October 23, 2013, 04:47 PM
This isn't the America I grew up in.... :(

ATLDave
October 23, 2013, 05:01 PM
This isn't the America I grew up in.... :(

Well, I don't know exactly when you grew up, but my recollection is that this has been the law in the District since 1975. Nothing new about this.

Ranger Roberts
October 23, 2013, 05:04 PM
Tyranny at its finest. How many people have fought and died for our rights just so we can have them stripped away? This country is in a terrible downward spiral...

Sam1911
October 23, 2013, 05:20 PM
This is obscene. We are truly becoming two nations.

Well, I don't know exactly when you grew up, but my recollection is that this has been the law in the District since 1975. Nothing new about this.

"We" may be a little closer to becoming one, actually. I guarantee this law has been enforced many thousands of times to put other sorts of people away for long periods of time. This time it happens to be an upstanding, successful, (fill in the blank), businessman instead of a "suspected drug-dealer's house" or "gang related" or whatever else.

MANY people have spent years in jail due to being caught in violation of DC's laws against guns and ammunition. It's just a bit harder to call this, "getting X,Y,Z off our streets."

(Ironically, I do know folks who have been caught and let go with a sternly wagged finger because they didn't fit ... well, they were "obviously" not the bad type.)

Godsgunman
October 23, 2013, 05:30 PM
Unbelievable. Welcome to Nazi Germany.

scythefwd
October 23, 2013, 05:36 PM
Believe it or not, this is a good thing. Just need to get GOA and NRA to back this guy all the way to the SCOTUS and get the law ruled unconstitutional.

Carl N. Brown
October 23, 2013, 06:11 PM
Originally Posted by ATLDave
When I went to school in D.C., I lived in fear that a piece of ammunition from a holiday shooting outing with my dad and brother would stick in a coat pocket, trouser cuff, or under a car floor mat, and make me a felon when I returned to school. Just ridiculous.
I am used to target practicing in the mountains using the truck as a rest. There are probably empty casings, mostly .22, all over the vehicle in odd corners. I regard them as debris like pine needles, etc. I could commit a felony just by driving through DC on vacation. This is insane to me.

Dnaltrop
October 23, 2013, 06:29 PM
Found a spent .22 casing in the under-trunk storage of my Station Wagon that I purchased in Nebraska this year.

Wouldn't that have been a hoot if for some bizarre reason I'd been en route to DC instead of back home to Oregon? "It's Not mine officer, I swear! I have no idea how that got there!"

19-3Ben
October 23, 2013, 06:40 PM
When i was in college in Massachusetts, I was president of the shooting club for our school.
After range trips I always had to remind the students not to bring any cases as souvenirs, and to check the tread of their shoes for any cases that might be stuck in the shoe, as they don't want to someone to find it in their car, or their dorm room later on for this exact reason.

ATLDave
October 23, 2013, 06:50 PM
I am used to target practicing in the mountains using the truck as a rest. There are probably empty casings, mostly .22, all over the vehicle in odd corners. I regard them as debris like pine needles, etc. I could commit a felony just by driving through DC on vacation. This is insane to me.

I agree 100%. It is insane, imbecilic, moronic, etc. It's just been the law for a long time in D.C. It's not new, it's not something that "is happening" to our country. It happened in Washington a long, long time ago. :(

steelerdude99
October 23, 2013, 06:51 PM
...
MANY people have spent years in jail due to being caught in violation of DC's laws against guns and ammunition. It's just a bit harder to call this, "getting X,Y,Z off our streets."

(Ironically, I do know folks who have been caught and let go with a sternly wagged finger because they didn't fit ... well, they were "obviously" not the bad type.)

From living close to there and their attitude towards guns, I am sure D.C is going to put everything they have behind Mr. Witaschek's prosecution. I hope he has a good legal team. Mr. Witaschek has to have a lot of guts to challenge. There was no mention of an offered plea deal or even if he was out on bail.

But the tactics the D.C police used by having a warrant for not just a firearm or ammo, but "gun cleaning equipment, holsters, bullet holders and ammunition receipts.” is just bizarre. It would be hard for anyone who ever owned any firearm ever to not have some "left over" gun related items. Possession of Hoppe's #9 is illegal?

chuck

Trent
October 23, 2013, 06:57 PM
Heck, when I traded in my last pickup truck, a week later the dealer called me and said "Hey, we pulled a bag worth of brass casings out of your truck when we were detailing it, come pick it up anytime."

In IL we can carry an unloaded gun in the console, with a loaded magazine next to it. I often practice draw-load-fire drills when driving out to change rifle targets. So there's brass every-frigging-where in my cars. :)

(Soon, we'll have CCW and I won't have to load the gun when I practice. Just draw and fire.)

This story is shocking, BTW.

I can't even describe how that article made me feel, in words.

KMatch
October 23, 2013, 07:03 PM
But... how long have they been battering down bathroom doors in riot gear with teens in the shower and holding home owners at gunpoint over reloading supplies, spent shells, and 1 dud 12 gauge shell??

clutch
October 23, 2013, 07:16 PM
On the warrant was "gun cleaning equipment, holsters, bullet holders and ammunition receipts.”

Items that are legal in Washington, DC, a place where if there is any place the Constitution and most importantly the 2nd Amendment should apply.

How am I supposed to respect the rule of law when this sort of egregious violation of the Constitution and basic civil rights keeps happening in the very capitol of our nation?

Please Second Amendment Foundation, take this one if this is a true rendition of events. I'll be more than happy to open my wallet again. If this is the good fight we should all join in.

gamestalker
October 23, 2013, 07:19 PM
So then, is reloading an illegal hobby in DC?

"When seconds count, the police are only minutes away"

GS

F-111 John
October 23, 2013, 07:36 PM
Just curious... would a mis-fired cartridge/shell be considered 'inert', or 'live' ammo?

Most definitely live. Until the powder is gone, it's got potential.

The kicker of the law in DC is it wouldn't matter anyway. According to the article a spent shell is considered "ammunition."

caribou
October 23, 2013, 07:42 PM
Ammunition registration is illegal, as per Volker -McClure gun owners protection laws from may 1986, when Regan stopped the manufacture, importation of machine guns in this country........same bill anyways.

HexHead
October 23, 2013, 07:56 PM
This is obscene. We are truly becoming two nations.


Willie

.
Not fast enough.

Trent
October 23, 2013, 08:44 PM
I'm still trying to decipher on what planet this all makes any sense.

Cripes.

A piece of brass?

tommy.duncan
October 23, 2013, 08:57 PM
The council members keep pushing for DC to become a state. This is crap. I hope he gets off and gets a damn good lawyer!!

AlexanderA
October 23, 2013, 09:01 PM
The rules in D.C. are, shall we say, "flexible." A few years ago (in the late 1980's) I was given written permission from the Metropolitan Police Department to bring a live, registered M60 machine gun into the District, for the purpose of a "living history" demonstration at the Soldiers' Home. (And BTW, the ATF was fine with this "interstate transportation" as long as I had the permission slip from the Metropolitan Police.) This probably violated a host of laws, as written, but, hey, since the Metropolitan Police was in charge of enforcing those laws, who was I to argue?

This same "flexibility" was on display recently, with David Gregory and Diane Feinstein flaunting large-capacity magazines on national TV. Nothing will happen to them. It's all a question of who you are and who you know.

The moral of the story in the OP of this thread is to stay on good terms with ex-spouses. Vindictive "significant others" have been the undoing of many a good man when guns are concerned.

medalguy
October 23, 2013, 09:08 PM
This may not be new, but it sure as hell isn't right. I hope the case gets tossed quickly, but considering the current bent of the courts, it probably won't.

ChaoSS
October 23, 2013, 09:58 PM
I don't see the problem. The 4th amendment clearly states:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, the persons or things to be seized, the property to be wantonly destroyed, and the minor children to be sexually assaulted.

Right? Isn't that what it says?

351 WINCHESTER
October 23, 2013, 10:16 PM
Our federal govt. is mad and sick with no cure. They are evil people with evil agendas and we keep letting them get away with it. We vote, but our votes are not counted.
This is something that I would expect in Mexico or Nazi Germany. Coming soon to a state near you if we don't put a stop to it soon.

Sam1911
October 23, 2013, 11:39 PM
Our federal govt. is mad and sick with no cure. They are evil people with evil agendas and we keep letting them get away with it.
Wait...this isn't the federal government sending in troops. This was passed by the DC City Council back in 1975. Being enforced by the DC police. Your Congressman didn't tell them to go do this, and the current President didn't either. This is local politics run amok.

We vote, but our votes are not counted. I rather fail to see how you can draw that conclusion from this. Did you vote in any DC City Council elections?

This is something that I would expect in Mexico or Nazi Germany. Coming soon to a state near you if we don't put a stop to it soon.Somehow I don't think a law prohibiting ownership of an empty fired case is coming soon to any state, any where. :scrutiny:

Let's not go completely barmy over this. It's disgusting, but it's just DC being DC. If you're not used to the local inside-the-beltway political culture it may shock you -- and it should! -- but don't assume they have anything at all to do with the rest of the nation. It's a bizarre little world in there.

herrwalther
October 23, 2013, 11:41 PM
DC PD is about as crooked as a winding road through the Alps. It no longer matters whether you broke the law or not. Politicians in Washington break it on a daily basis but they aren't touched. Nothing will happen to Diane Fianstein for having semi-automatic and even a few NFA firearms IN the Capitol. But this guy gets slammed for having ammo? I know the law isn't new but it certainly needs to be re done.

StrutStopper
October 24, 2013, 12:01 AM
Disgusting.

stressed
October 24, 2013, 12:12 AM
Disgusting. The founding fathers would be rolling in their graves. I wish the Confederacy would have won.

wrc
October 24, 2013, 12:21 AM
Police based their search on a charge made by Mr. Witaschek’s estranged wife, who had earlier convinced a court clerk to issue a temporary restraining order against her husband for threatening her with a gun, although a judge later found the charge to be without merit.

So, either his estranged wife is connected or this guy really ticked off a connected guy. Having Metro hit a Georgetown house in force to look for stray ammunition is quite an expenditure of time, effort, and political capital -- not the kind of thing a sgt or lt is going to initiate.

This kind of treatment is sending a message to someone, that's for sure. I'm not clear on who the audience is. Anyone local in DC know the players?

yzguy87
October 24, 2013, 01:40 AM
This is rediculous! D.C. or any other part of the nation, it's absurd!
For anyone who says this is just D.C. and a localized event, I respectfully disagree. This is a mentality that is spreading through our nation due to an unconstitutional agenda pushed on the American people by corrupt politicians.
Maybe things aren't this bad in your place of residence... yet!
Stuff like this reminds of why we REALLY have the Second Amendment.


I like Ranger Roberts' signature line a lot:
"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it"

rondog
October 24, 2013, 02:03 AM
Hey, it's safer for all those cops to go after that guy and his family than it is for them to go after REAL criminals in the DC ghettos and 'hoods. These folks offer no resistance, the real criminals might shoot back. Plus the cops get to play with their cool toys and practice Police State tactics.

Queen_of_Thunder
October 24, 2013, 02:39 AM
Apparently they have nothing to hold their ammo so instead of throwing away empty boxes of ammo maybe we should send it to them as long as its not illegal.

leadcounsel
October 24, 2013, 04:29 AM
Sad, the real criminals are the ones in power and exercising 'illegal' warrants; the politicians, the judges, and the law enforcement that conduct these actions.

Lest anyone think I'm kidding - when you pass and enforce illegal laws that violate the very US Constitution our nation was founded on, then you are a criminal.

These criminals need to go to prison and the laws reversed to align with our founding rights.

As an aside, I cannot understand why ANYONE would live in such a place like DC if you are at all interested in guns. Get a job elsewhere, move the family, do whatever. But it's better than the alteratives, which mean giving up your guns or going to prison, and in this case he's going to prison for having a bullet... There are about 45 'free' states. Why would you pick one of the places that is NOT free?!?!?! It's not that hard to move to free America.

Cryogaijin
October 24, 2013, 05:34 AM
Now, I am not a lawyer, but. . .

This going to trial is a good thing. By my read of this, the action and law are illegal under Heller. However until there is a successful legal challenge under Heller, the unconstitutional law remains on the books. If the judge does the right thing and makes a verdict in the case in the defendant's favor, there is now a legal challenge to the law, and it can thus be overturned.

It is sad what the family went through, and the amount of damage caused. However the court portion of this case could very well be a VERY good thing for the district.

barnbwt
October 24, 2013, 10:35 AM
I'd take a close look at this businessman's & competitions' local political dealings, but I'm sure that's just crazy talk and this whole thing was mistaken overreaction.

TCB

wow6599
October 24, 2013, 10:50 AM
"Mr. Gregory, here is your AR-15 clip".

Elitist Fascism at the least..........

Sentryau2
October 24, 2013, 10:58 AM
This is pretty sick. Law suit for personal grievance and emotional damage? I'd call being dragged out of your shower naked, cold and afraid pretty traumatic.

ATLDave
October 24, 2013, 11:12 AM
This going to trial is a good thing. By my read of this, the action and law are illegal under Heller. However until there is a successful legal challenge under Heller, the unconstitutional law remains on the books. If the judge does the right thing and makes a verdict in the case in the defendant's favor, there is now a legal challenge to the law, and it can thus be overturned.

What part of Heller does a requirement to have a registration card to buy and possess ammo violate?

Outlaw Man
October 24, 2013, 11:23 AM
Up until I read the part about what happened to his family, I thought this was someone trying g to be a test case. Generally, you "stage" those things better where the family isn't involved. I still hope he has a great lawyer.

Honestly, this doesn't surprise me from DC. I wouldn't have been surprised if they had skipped the warrant entirely.

Zoogster
October 24, 2013, 11:43 AM
The council members keep pushing for DC to become a state.

And Puerto Rico is strongly pushed as a state as well.

Both are highly anti-gun and if given statehood would add senators and votes in favor of anti-gun policies nationwide.


The warrant is a joke. Adding legal items that might be related to a hobby which is perfectly legal to take part in all over the region.

What judge signed that?



I don't know what motivated them to go extreme and raid him in such a fashion, but after doing an estimated $10,000 in damage to his home they probably are going to pursue these petty charges of unfireable ammunition to justify thier actions.
Otherwise they may be on the hook for the cost of damages.


He would be the joke of prison, in for having an unfireable round.
Of course they wouldn't actually send him to prison, which just goes to show how stupid the law is. Making things a felony you don't even feel justify sending someone to jail over. A felon and probably several years of probation with a government representative telling him what he can and cannot do.

ourichie
October 24, 2013, 12:08 PM
http://www.washingtonartillery.com/Bonnie%20Blue%20Flag.jpg

jbrown50
October 24, 2013, 12:53 PM
Wait...this isn't the federal government sending in troops. This was passed by the DC City Council back in 1975. Being enforced by the DC police. Your Congressman didn't tell them to go do this, and the current President didn't either. This is local politics run amok.

I rather fail to see how you can draw that conclusion from this. Did you vote in any DC City Council elections?

Somehow I don't think a law prohibiting ownership of an empty fired case is coming soon to any state, any where. :scrutiny:

Let's not go completely barmy over this. It's disgusting, but it's just DC being DC. If you're not used to the local inside-the-beltway political culture it may shock you -- and it should! -- but don't assume they have anything at all to do with the rest of the nation. It's a bizarre little world in there.
Sam,

Although DC has a form of home rule they still can't pass any laws unless Congress approves of them. The DC City Council has the ability to pass local laws and ordinances. However, pursuant to the District of Columbia Home Rule Act of 1973 all legislation passed by the D.C. government, including the city's local budget, remains subject to the approval of Congress.

In the case of DC, Congress simply allows the laws to take effect without opposition.

So it ultimately is our illustrious Congress who has actually allowed DC to get away with these onerous gun laws.

My personal take on this matter is that Congress uses DC to do their dirty work for them....... at least as it pertains to the gun laws.

Sam1911
October 24, 2013, 12:56 PM
Yes, that is so. Have you called your congressman about this? I wonder how interested he/she will be in "meddling" in DC local council laws.

jbrown50
October 24, 2013, 02:01 PM
Yes, that is so. Have you called your congressman about this? I wonder how interested he/she will be in "meddling" in DC local council laws.
Yes, I have complained to both current Senators and my House Rep about it and didn't get a response from their offices. Not much different than when the original DC gun ban was enacted way back in 1976......... or since then when many different members of Congress were in office.

I understand your point Sam but I have difficulty believing that Congress could do absolutely nothing about DC gun laws. I think they just didn't want to.

Sam1911
October 24, 2013, 05:44 PM
Well, I agree with that. They don't want to. Forcing a change in DC politics (that the citizens will OVERWHELMINGLY despise, remember) is rough going for any congresscritters. Perhaps a real gung-ho "conservative" might get a bit of traction with his base by grandstanding for it, but the majority of politicians aren't going to see getting tangled up with fighting the DC citizens and council and mayor and DC's non-voting representatives, etc., etc, as something that's going to make them look good.

It should be done, but it will almost certainly have to come through the courts.

steelerdude99
October 24, 2013, 07:13 PM
http://www.guns.com/2013/10/23/emily-miller-d-c-businessman-faces-two-years-jail-unregistered-ammunition-brass-casing/

Some of it is repeated info and some new. All of it appalling.

chuck

Nico Testosteros
October 24, 2013, 08:36 PM
Disgusting. The founding fathers would be rolling in their graves. I wish the Confederacy would have won.

Because it was so pro freedom? I take it you are for slavery.

ChaoSS
October 24, 2013, 09:39 PM
Read a real history book, Nico. Slavery was on it's way out anyway in the south. The civil war had nothing to do with slavery, other than it was the spark, so to speak. The real issue was, and is, state's rights. The right of the states to make their own laws, to not have the federal government interfere. And yes, they were freedom loving people.

danweasel
October 24, 2013, 11:56 PM
Huh? You gotta be kidding me. Way to back a loser...

Sam1911
October 25, 2013, 07:18 AM
[Let us not get off topic re-fighting the Civil War, guys.]

Outlaw Man
October 25, 2013, 09:51 AM
I agree Sam. They're (Congress) probably less likely to do anything counter to DC leadership than to overturn an executive order.

Sam1911
October 25, 2013, 10:07 AM
Yeah. There's no profit in it for them. It's very similar to the US sending in the Marines into some 3rd world country to clean up corruption or protect a religious minority or something. It's a worthy cause, but the benefits to the US are few and there will be howls from all sides about us outsiders meddling in someone else's local affairs and forcing our views and beliefs on people who don't want them.

Every time something like this is discussed, DC runs to the microphones and starts shouting about being oppressed by the "conservatives" in congress, not having representation, and not being allowed to conduct their own affairs. It's a bit like the old Uncle Remus story about the tar baby -- no politician comes out of that scuffle looking good.

Now there are a few who would be able to do it deliberately and welcome the notoriety that would come from it, but most wouldn't. They kind of have to be willing to say, "I love freedom SO MUCH that I won't let them make their own choices..." :scrutiny: :D

That's not politically appealing, even when the goal is laudable. When it goes through the court, however, and they're told that they have to bring their laws in conformance with the Constitution, they have much less room to squawk and cry "victim."

22-rimfire
October 25, 2013, 10:26 AM
I don't care what the DC law is. This is TYRANNY. The guy and his family were treated like common criminals.... disgusting.

OilyPablo
October 25, 2013, 11:32 AM
Electing Democrats has consequences.

Yet the bogyman is the Republican who may invade your bedroom. Somebody has been duped and it's not me.

4x4moses
October 25, 2013, 03:50 PM
This is the sort of thing that gives ALL law enforcement a bad reputation. It's also another reason I'm glad I am no longer a police officer. There was a time this would have been outrageously out-of-the-ordinary; but (sadly) this is becoming more and more commonplace. I'm glad I live in a "back-woods, hillbilly, southern state." It may happen here, but it'll be one of the last places to surrender.

Bubbles
October 25, 2013, 04:21 PM
Cases like this are why I never complain about getting called up for jury duty.

rem44m
October 25, 2013, 05:21 PM
Hopefully it get overturned. DC will never see a tourist or business dollar from me and I will NEVER go there.

Same goes for NJ, Chicago, California and any other communist states of America.

jaysouth
October 25, 2013, 06:47 PM
In 69, I got a job with the DC police (MPDC). It was a miserable job walking beats in ghetto neighborhoods in Feb where the wind tunnel effect made for 40 MPH winds in 20 degree temps. About 71, I saw home rule coming and racial grievances being the order of the day. I moved to Virginia and started college so I could find another line of work.

As outragous as the behavior of the police was, it is indicative of two things, the increased militarization of the police and the dysfunction of the city. They got home rule in 1975 and started passing horribly restrictive gun laws, including the one cited in this case.

I as disgusted with the actions of the police, but I have to question why a successful businessman would live in DC and ignore their draconian gun laws.. A city where the locals brag about their city being a school and work free drug zone. Sorry for the highhanded actions by the police, but this was not a test case of a new law. It is a very old law that has been enforced to the letter for a long, long time.

steelerdude99
October 25, 2013, 07:42 PM
Hopefully it get overturned. DC will never see a tourist or business dollar from me and I will NEVER go there.


The way this law gets overturned is that Mark Witaschek would have to be convicted and then appeal to a "higher court". That's where the law "may be" overturned. Not exactly a sure thing. Juries are not "supposed to" judge a law's constitutionality. I would speculate that anyone who knows anything about guns would be excused from serving by request of the DC Government.

Those who are caught and decide not to fight usually plead guilty to a lesser charge (and end up not being incarcerated). They hurt the chance of the law being overturned. BUT, how can you blame them for not wanting to risk spending time in prison.

Chuck

Sam1911
October 25, 2013, 07:44 PM
Juries are not "supposed to" judge a law's constitutionality.There's the whole idea of jury nullification that does allow for that, but it's a snowball's chance in DC.

JERRY
October 25, 2013, 08:03 PM
well, i don't know about the rest of you, but I for one will feel a lot safer once this violent criminal is in prison.

orionengnr
October 25, 2013, 09:05 PM
Subscribing...

Hardtarget
October 25, 2013, 09:09 PM
Just another reason I will not visit the D.C. area.

Mark

lionking
October 25, 2013, 09:23 PM
quote: "Police based their search on a charge made by Mr. Witaschek’s estranged wife, who had earlier convinced a court clerk to issue a temporary restraining order against her husband for threatening her with a gun, although a judge later found the charge to be without merit."

As wrongful it is that the cops acted in such a way usually I am so glad I have never let a woman rule my life , well I did once for a short while long ago lol. Confirmed bachelor I am, but still get decent action at least until they think they are moving in anyway........then they are faced with the reality of no they are not. George Clooney knows what I am talkin' about.

MagnunJoe
October 26, 2013, 12:08 AM
And that's why for 14 years I worked in Washington DC but lived right across the river in a much more civilized Virginia.

hovercat
October 26, 2013, 06:40 AM
I am puzzled that a court clerk can issue a restraining order.

OilyPablo
October 26, 2013, 09:19 AM
Anything is possible in DC.

Trent
October 26, 2013, 12:25 PM
Maybe more appropriate for Activism, perhaps, but it seems to me the logical way to protest this arrest, is for gun owners to send massive amounts of spent cartridges to Washington DC.

Maybe put a message in the boxes, too.

"NUTS!"

Willie Sutton
October 26, 2013, 01:17 PM
^^

:evil:


The Calvin in me (of Calvin and Hobbs fame) immediately visualized filling oversized pockets of cargo pants with spent .22 brass, and then trickling an endless stream of them up and down the walkways of the National Mall out of a hole in the bottom of the pockets (see "The Great Escape" and how the dirt was spread out in the prison yard). About, oh... a thousand or so new felons walking around aged from 8 to 80 would just about do it.....

:neener:



<sigh>

Just a fantasy, mind you, but... an amusing one.


Now:


You can walk right across the bridge to Arlington and when walking in the new graves area, reliably find much spent brass from honor guard salutes. I wonder how many people have pocketed a few and then walked back across the river to DC to become unknowing felons. The Old Guard sort of polices up their brass, but they hardly worry about getting back every one. I've found dozens of pieces of brass there as I walk the graves looking up old friends.


Well, you know what they say: One mans trash is another mans ticket for a year of free food and housing.


:banghead:


Willie

.

leadcounsel
October 28, 2013, 03:23 AM
Ah, would be funny to send spent cases to known liberals and then drop anonymous reports to the cops about contraband.

Carl N. Brown
October 28, 2013, 05:04 AM
After my father's military funeral, my uncle gave each of us kids a spendt casing from our father's honor guard salute. To think that if I lived in my nation's capitol, and retained possession of that "unregistered ammunition", I would be a felon is simply unfathomable. Woe, just wow.

tarosean
October 28, 2013, 08:14 AM
Just a fantasy, mind you, but... an amusing one.

till they followed the bread crumbs and you end up with back to back life sentences...

MachIVshooter
October 28, 2013, 05:18 PM
It will be interesting to see how the jury interprets this one. Inert rounds or empty cases do not constitute "ammunition" under any law that I'm aware of. The real question will be if he and his attorney can make a case for a misfired 12 ga shell being inert.

However, regardless of the outcome on the charge, the misconduct of the police is absolutely inexcusable. I suspect the accused will have a pretty decent shot in civil court, perhaps not for the way he was handled, but for the treatment of bona fide innocents in the home. Getting him convicted on the ammo charge will not make a case for violent felon that would warrant such a raid execution. I'm confident a civil case jury would agree.

rcoolbaugh
October 28, 2013, 05:34 PM
Massachusetts Law defines ANY component as "Ammunition" :

Section 121. As used in sections 122 to 131P, inclusive, the following words shall, unless the context clearly requires otherwise, have the following meanings:-

“Ammunition”, cartridges or cartridge cases, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun. The term “ammunition” shall also mean tear gas cartridges, chemical mace or any device or instrument which contains or emits a liquid, gas, powder or any other substance designed to incapacitate.

ATLDave
October 28, 2013, 06:03 PM
Getting him convicted on the ammo charge will not make a case for violent felon that would warrant such a raid execution. I'm confident a civil case jury would agree.

NOT LEGAL ADVICE:

You'd have to get to the jury first. There are (for better or worse) lots of protections for state actors against tort suits, and lots of hurdles to clear for a party suing the state or law enforcement.

arizona98tj
October 28, 2013, 10:46 PM
If you really want a crash course in how bad things in DC have gotten....up to and including putting our Vets in jail because of a these ridiculous "crimes", Emily Miller released her 1st book this year (a few months ago). It's titled "Emily Gets Her Gun but Obama wants to take yours away".

If you've not read it, you are missing out on the real world city gov't that most folks would only imagine being found in a book of fairy tales. She is a professional reporter and in my opinion did a great job writing the book. Every fact is footnoted.

If you can afford a box of ammo, you can afford to buy the book. Maybe it will stir up the fires enough that we can all help put an end to the craziness that is so getting out of control. ;)

barnbwt
October 29, 2013, 12:47 AM
"any device or instrument which contains or emits a liquid, gas, powder or any other substance designed to incapacitate"
Including firehoses/extinguishers? They damn sure will if used for such. An Anschutz 22LR single shot is "designed to incapacitate" about as much as a car or fire extinguisher is, but I'm sure their law is selectively interpreted in this case :rolleyes:

I really wish our legislators would write from a "Monkey's Paw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Monkey%27s_Paw)" perspective :banghead:, but unforeseen consequences are what keep them employed (otherwise they'd have resolved the last social/fiscal issue about 100 years ago)

TCB

steelerdude99
February 26, 2014, 08:23 PM
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/23/trial-mark-witaschek-washington-dc-one-shotgun-she/

Right before the trial began, Mr. Nathan’s office dropped the charge from possession of unregistered ammunition to attempted possession.

It’s unclear how Mr. Witaschek could attempt to possess something that was in his home, but the facts aren’t the reason for the shift. The lesser charge carries a penalty of six months in jail, which means Mr. Witaschek was not eligible for the jury trial he wanted.


While the first sentence of the quoted section seems like a good thing, it's NOT. The lessening of the charge drops the potential sentence to below a threshold that allows for a jury trail. So, a judge hears arguments and then decides guilty or not guilty. What's the chance of a D.C. judge being interested in being an advocate for gun rights?

Just the concept of having actual possession of an "illegal item" that is NOT charged; it's the "attempted possession of that illegal item". Sounds like something's is not right.

chuck

OilyPablo
February 26, 2014, 08:51 PM
This is what we have come to as a nation? We are ruled.

barnbwt
February 26, 2014, 08:59 PM
God, I hope that judge throws the book at him. It'll be the best thing that ever happened to folks in DC. Random judges (or in this case, judges on the take <David "30-Rounder" Gregory reference>) can get away with idiotic or arbitrary rulings, but district judges have to actually explain their motivations. They don't just do what a DA tells them to, normally

I can't see a published legal argument upholding a conviction yielding anything but bafflement and humiliation among a judge's peers and social circle. The best DC could hope for is that their PD is severely reprimanded in the ruling, and none of its organs are ordered to be investigated, or its laws struck down. I still haven't heard of much digging into the guy's wife (I hate to be this guy, but this whole affair smacks so strongly of punitive litigation that some journalists really need to do some investigating).

baseless accusation + administrative screw-up + massive corruption = Kafka and/or Braaaahhhh-ziiiiilllllllll...

TCB

kevinakaq
February 26, 2014, 09:01 PM
Reading something like this is simply incredulous. To think we are raising our children in a country that drags boys naked out of the shower in their own home while good men stand complacent. I couldnt imagine this happening before it happened. I cant help but consider myself guilty and ashamed for not doing more to help reverse this type of injustice. My inaction, and milions like me, allows this to transpire. I pray I will be braver and do better to stand for our constitutional rights. If not, my children will be next and the idea of such is intolerable.

I don't consider this an issue of gun rights, but inalienable human rights that are being taken away.

HOWARD J
February 26, 2014, 09:07 PM
This guys wife is the one that caused this problem----NO FURTHER COMMENT

tomrkba
February 26, 2014, 09:22 PM
If SCOTUS had wanted to declare that the Second Amendment rules in DC, and not DC council laws violating the 2A, they would have.

But they did not. The Heller decision shows that SCOTUS has no interest in ruling based upon the original intent of the Second Amendment.

I do not see 1 million gun owners marching on DC with their signs of evil black rifles and pictures of David Gregory holding an illegal magazine. Nobody is doing anything other than writing letters and checks. Politicians in DC, including the NRA-ILA, will continue to stretch out the "gun game" as long as possible so long as the people do nothing more than complain on forums, blogs and Facebook. They do not fear us and certainly do not take us seriously. If they did, we wouldn't be talking about this ridiculous court case, all the stupid restrictions on carry in Illinois, Connecticut's silly gun registration scheme, or any of it at all.

If we want gun rights in DC and Federal territory, then we're going to have to march. But, I'm not doing it alone or with just a few "Tea Party Patriots". That's a waste of time.

Maggie
February 27, 2014, 11:03 AM
I wonder if the ex-WIFE has any remorse in what the children went through because of Her. I wonder if they were HER children.

ohioshooter
February 27, 2014, 11:12 AM
WOW is all I can say...

MagnunJoe
February 27, 2014, 03:00 PM
Just another reason I will not visit the D.C. area.

Mark
Please do not say DC area. I'm from Annandale, Virginia, just across the bridge, it's like a whole other country only 10 miles away from the ghetto.

steelerdude99
March 28, 2014, 10:36 PM
In the Mark Witaschek trial, Judge Morin didn't know what a muzzleloader bullet was or if it was regulated under DC firearms laws. But he still convicted Witaschek and said, “I’m persuaded these are bullets. They look like bullets. They are hollow point. They are not musket balls.”

Emily Miller - Washington Times

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/26/miller-exclusive-shock-verdict-mark-witaschek-guil/

chuck

kevinakaq
March 28, 2014, 10:46 PM
Unbelievable....you need a lab to open up a shotgun shell. Just goes to show how out of touch with reality these people are. They have zero idea over the items they so vociferously despise. I don't even want to begin on the musket ball line...

Well since you cant argue with ignorant people i must sincerely ask how do we educate people like this? Such gross missunderstandings of blackpowder guns and shells is appalling when your fate is being decided. Was the defense any more knowledgeable and afforded the opportunity to correct? So many questions to ask once I close my jaw which still remains agape in suprise.

Willie Sutton
March 28, 2014, 10:53 PM
This is an absolutely obscene miscarriage of justice.

I assume an appeal of the facts is possible?


Willie

.

DHJenkins
March 28, 2014, 11:12 PM
I don't understand why people who don't live in DC care about what goes on there.

It's like The Vatican in Rome. Special this, special that - doesn't apply to the surrounding area, let alone the rest of the country.

DC is not a proving ground. It is a not a model city for anything. Yes, lots of important decisions are made there, but the people that make those decisions either don't live there or live in an economic "green zone".

Sorry to everyone who's getting railroaded there, but that's your choice; as a grown-up, you can choose where you live and where you go.

kevinakaq
March 28, 2014, 11:18 PM
"Sorry to everyone who's getting railroaded there, but that's your choice; as a grown-up, you can choose where you live and where you go."

It is part of the united states of america.....not a state, but part of nonetheless. Last i read the bill of rights and the constitution still 'legally' applied. Whether or not they are being upheld though is in question. If we all leave the states states (or districts) whose laws we dont agree with we will soon find ourselves outnumbered by those states we left and at the mercy of the voters who remain. Every state and district is a battleground worth fighting for....not one inch in retreat...each battle lost should be after a hard fight and not because we withdrew to safer ground.

The strong decision is to move to those states that are antigun and vote...and i freely would have to question if i am that dedicated.

Least that is my two overpriced cents of opinion spoken from the safety of a state who protects the second admendment rights of its voters.....

Kevin

SmugTuna
March 28, 2014, 11:19 PM
It's also illegal to have brass in your car....just the freaking brass!!

steelerdude99
March 28, 2014, 11:46 PM
I don't understand why people who don't live in DC care about what goes on there. ...

Hi DHJenkins,
I don’t live in DC, but an area with bad gun laws such a short distance from me in VA gives me reason for concern. I did not vote for the democratic governor VA now has, but if an anti-gun bill crosses his desk … it will be signed.

As a matter of fact, what if some locality in Northern VA decided preemption was no longer important and decided a local carry permit was needed and decided “may-issue” was going to be the way they roll. The new state democratic AG may say… “Fine by me”. By the way, this AG has already unilaterally decided that a 2006 amendment to the state constitution would not be enforced.

Chuck

CoalTrain49
March 29, 2014, 12:44 AM
DC is hole above ground. What do you expect?

km101
March 29, 2014, 01:47 PM
Our nation's capital has become a cesspool of corrupt politicians and unconstitutional laws, instead of the shining example that it was once intended to be.

If it weren't for the Smithsonian it would be a total embarrassment!

Elkins45
March 29, 2014, 02:20 PM
Thinking long term (since the article says they will appeal the conviction) wouldn't this law be found to be at odds with Heller? Sucks for him, but eventually this law might be overturned for permit holders if not the public altogether.

I'm still trying to figure out why they ever let this one go to trial.

MagnumDweeb
March 29, 2014, 02:27 PM
So I'm never ever going to D.C. because they might find a spent piece of brass under my driver's seat from years back and convict me on garbage charges. I just can't believe a jury convicted but since it's D.C. and the jury pool is likely more anti-american than what we have here in Florida, I realize I should believe it.

D.C. gave us Heller, but I'm still convinced we ought to turn it into a toxic waste dumping site.

kevinakaq
March 29, 2014, 02:32 PM
" I just can't believe a jury convicted but since it's D.C. and the jury pool is likely more anti-american than "

The way i understand it the charges were reduced by the DA specifically to avoid a jury trial. Case was decided by a judge.

strambo
March 29, 2014, 02:32 PM
Whew, I'm glad he was convicted of "attempted possession of unlawful ammunition"! No civilized society can let such heinous "attempted" crimes go un-punished.

Theohazard
March 29, 2014, 03:36 PM
I grew up in DC. Until I heard about this case, I didn't realize I've been breaking the law ever since I was a kid.

I spent a lot of time at my grandparents house in the country, and I used to bring home fired bullets, casings, and even a few live rounds.

My family owned a roofing business and my dad and I used to collect the fired bullets we found on roofs (the bullets came down with just enough force to puncture the roofing materiel but didn't penetrate the wood below). We had a collection of about 30 loose bullets.

Little did I know that I've been a criminal ever since I was a kid. I'm so glad I live in the other Washington now. It's pretty much the opposite when it comes to gun rights.

elephant_man
March 29, 2014, 05:55 PM
Does anyone know what the judge was actually looking for by opening the shells? And is he now a convicted felon? This whole thing is ridiculous.

kevinakaq
March 29, 2014, 05:57 PM
from the Washington times article -

"In the afternoon on Wednesday, Judge Morin shook the plastic shell and tried to listen to something inside. He said he could not hear any gunpowder. He then asked the lawyers to open the shell to see if there was powder inside.

(This seemed like a bizarre request since the lack of primer — not gunpowder — would be relevant to the interoperability of the misfired shell.)

Assistant Attorney General Peter Saba said that the government wanted to open the shell but that, “It is dangerous to do outside a lab.”

The prosecutors and police officers left the courtroom to try to find a lab that was open in the afternoon to bring the judge to cut the plastic off the section that holds the pellets. When that proved not possible in the same day, the judge decided to just rule on the bullets."

mgkdrgn
March 29, 2014, 06:03 PM
I don't understand why people who don't live in DC care about what goes on there.

It's like The Vatican in Rome. Special this, special that - doesn't apply to the surrounding area, let alone the rest of the country.

DC is not a proving ground. It is a not a model city for anything. Yes, lots of important decisions are made there, but the people that make those decisions either don't live there or live in an economic "green zone".

Sorry to everyone who's getting railroaded there, but that's your choice; as a grown-up, you can choose where you live and where you go.
And I'll also bet they don't know that a Private Pilot still CAN NOT fly into National Airport. Ever.
And can't fly into the "DC-3" (Hyde, Potomac, College Park) unless they DRIVE there first and spend a day schleping between various alphabet soup agencies to get a special security clearance and "code" to use when filing their "special flight plan".

The ONLY place in the country where you have to do that.

I spent 28 years living in that area before I "escaped" to SC in late 2006. For those of you living outside the DC beltway, the government isn't as screwed up as you think ... it's at least 10X worse than you can POSSIBLY imagine.

Sniper66
March 29, 2014, 06:13 PM
Good god!!!!! This is an absolute nightmare perpetrated by swat team lunatics, out of control prosecutors, and a woefully ignorant judge . I hope this gets the national attention and outrage it deserves. This family of victims should be the poster family for major government reform. This is terrifying for bystanders like us; one can only imagine what this is like for this family. May god be with them!!!!!!!!

tomrkba
March 29, 2014, 06:39 PM
This man is now a felon based upon the most ridiculous circumstance possible.

Look...we know the DC gun laws are unconstitutional without a SCOTUS decision. We also know SCOTUS will rule in such a way to maintain the status quo. We need to make a very strong push to return the 2A to prominence and remind the government that it has no power over the right to keep and bear arms in Federal territory. Unfortunately, gun owners will not do so.

Trent
March 29, 2014, 06:53 PM
What the hell ...

we are not amused
March 29, 2014, 07:26 PM
Same here! My MG Midget had a bulk pack of .22LR tear open and scatter the shells in and under the seat, carpeting and various nooks and crannies. I am still finding the occasional round when cleaning the car.

By the way, this may have been the law in D.C. for a few years, but I have never heard of it being enforced against an otherwise innocent person! This is KGB and Gestapo thuggery at its very worst! Another example of Liberal (in)Justice at work! I seem to remember NBC News hack David Gregory display an illegal 30 round magazine on air, with no charges being filed.

HexHead
March 29, 2014, 07:49 PM
This is obscene. We are truly becoming two nations.


Willie

.
From your lips to God's ears.

kevinakaq
March 29, 2014, 09:08 PM
http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/28/mark-witaschek-surrenders-to-dc-police-gun-offende/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS

He's right up there with pedophiles now in the mind of the district of columbia...gotta keep a list of the violent muzzleloader shooters. Guess he could go crazy at a rendevous or something....

jonnyc
March 29, 2014, 09:09 PM
"unregistered ammunition"
This is really a DC law??? How does one go about registering ammo???
And BTW, a miss-fired round is still considered live, both legally and practically.

sansone
March 29, 2014, 09:21 PM
I'm terribly ashamed of my government, the judicial system, and losing faith in the notion that cops are people too.. nobody had the decency to speak up during the raid? I would quit my job if that is what it entails .. very, very sad

kevinakaq
March 29, 2014, 09:23 PM
Good video here from fox explaining in detail.

http://p.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/28/video-emily-miller-fox-news-about-mark-witaschek-g/

Loved it when she says "law and order couldnt make up a trial as ridiculous as this one"

I think this is the model that we have to look forward to if we don't unite, vote, and stand up for our RIGHTS. We may be glad to not live in DC, but coming to a town near you if we aren't as dedicated as these people are ignorant.

atomd
March 29, 2014, 11:59 PM
Let's hope the appeal brings a lick of common sense to this. I'm going to edit myself and end it at that.

steelerdude99
March 30, 2014, 12:48 PM
Let's hope the appeal brings a lick of common sense to this. I'm going to edit myself and end it at that.

There is still one part of this miscarriage of justice that’s bothering me. I don’t know how the D.C. prosecution got away with “under charging the crime”. Mr. Witaschek’s charged “crime” was attempted possession; not actual possession. But he had these items in his home, and they were presented as evidence against him; so who else would have been the owner if he was only "attempting to possess" the items?

The reason for going to trail only for attempted possession of ammunition is that it carries a fine/prison term under the threshold required to entitle a defendant to a jury trial. Were they attempting to have him plead guilty to possession of ammunition or attempted possession? In essence, it gave a him a rigged "bench trail" for attempted possession because he did not plead "guilty" to the crime of possession of ammunition? In a D.C. bench trail, only one “firearms ignorant” person had to be convinced of guilt rather than a jury of 12 “possibly ignorant” persons (or maybe a lesser number of jurors for misdemeanors).

So, is such an "under charging" strategy legal for “jury rigging” purposes? Let's hope the appeal brings this up.

chuck

BamAlmighty
March 30, 2014, 03:04 PM
Time to sack the city.

Never thought I would see the day people could get arrested for having a spent shell.

barnbwt
March 31, 2014, 12:09 AM
So, is such an "under charging" strategy legal for “jury rigging” purposes? Let's hope the appeal brings this up.

Double jeopardy? Also brings up Constitutional issues in that Witashek has been debarred his rights (gun crime registry) without a jury of his peers.

TCB

MagnunJoe
March 31, 2014, 12:13 PM
U have gangbangers and murderers doing the same jail time. That's DC for u, ghetto loving and so corrupt it makes Russia look good.

Pilot
April 2, 2014, 08:12 AM
I am ashamed of our nation's capital, and its leadership. Worst than a third world country. Much worse.

rondog
April 2, 2014, 04:11 PM
I remember a story on some gun forum told by a LEO who responded to a call from a distraught vacationing family who found an "explosive device" in their rented minivan. When he arrived on-scene the family was huddled far from the van and trembling in terror. The "explosive device" was a shotgun shell rolling around in the van. I can't recall if it was even a live shell or an empty one, but they were all certain it would blow them to bits.

I'd love for that poster to tell the tale again. As a Public Safety announcement if nothing else. No idea where I read that, but it illustrates the levels of naiveté that sheeple can be driven to. Like kids drawing guns on paper, playing cowboys and indians with finger guns at recess, or (horrors!) gnawing a pop-tart into the "shape of a pistol".

steelerdude99
April 11, 2014, 08:42 AM
Here is a somewhat recent development: The day after the trial, an agent from the D.C. Office of Tax and Revenue showed up at Mr. Witaschek’s office.

see link: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/9/miller-how-government-tyranny-destroyed-a-dc-busin/#ixzz2yRfFTLJV

BullfrogKen
April 11, 2014, 06:23 PM
The day after the trial, an agent from the D.C. Office of Tax and Revenue showed up at Mr. Witaschek’s office.

Wow, what an abuse of power.

dmancornell
April 11, 2014, 06:28 PM
Classic example of prosecutorial "discretion". Basically the law is no longer the implement of justice, it's for bludgeoning fear of the state into the hoi polloi.

OilyPablo
April 11, 2014, 09:04 PM
Makes my blood boil.

barnbwt
April 12, 2014, 03:06 AM
They appear to be trying to drive him to suicide... I mean, they already threw him out of DC (they must not have annihilated his business interests and parceled them out to cronies yet; why else would they care, now?)

Hopefully he remains pissed off and financed long enough to get this to an appeal or two; to a court where this kind of ridiculousness won't go unnoticed.

TCB

230RN
April 12, 2014, 02:47 PM
Let's hope the appeal brings a lick of common sense to this. I'm going to edit myself and end it at that.

See signature line.

Terry, 230RN

Lex Luthier
April 12, 2014, 03:11 PM
I caught an expended .22 casing in my boot tread when I was last in our lovely capital, and they pass the law months after. Interesting to think that my flight home might have been in handcuffs.

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