Need suggestions for Ultra compact 1911 for carry use.


PDA






crash32
October 23, 2013, 02:25 PM
I have 5 handguns and my smallest one is a Glock 23 and the biggest one being a S&W 500 mag lol. Although my Glock 23 is technically a compact, it is too big for me to fit into my hunting pack when I go hunting so I am looking for a ultra compact.
I could not bring myself to buy a cheap gun so I have decided to go up to the 1911 platform for this. My price range is around $1,000 (900 to 1,300ish).
While I do not want to spend the coin associated for a Wilson Combat Ultra Compact ($3,000+) as I am waiting to spend that kind of money for a full size 1911 I still want to get something nice hence me going with a 1911 as opposed to a Kel-Tec etc.

Thanks guys

If you enjoyed reading about "Need suggestions for Ultra compact 1911 for carry use." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
hAkron
October 23, 2013, 02:32 PM
The Springfield EMP comes to mind, though you didn't mention a caliber, so I assume you are looking for 45ACP. I believe the EMP only comes in 9mm and 40S&W. I have an RIA compact model, and while it was about half of your proposed budget, it's a pretty nice compact 1911.

crash32
October 23, 2013, 02:34 PM
I looked into the EMP and it seems as if it is either an absolute hit or miss. Some people with the EMP love it to death and others say that even after sending it to the factory twice it still does not function (stove pipes etc). I am not set on any particular caliber and am perfectly fine with 40 cal.

9mmepiphany
October 23, 2013, 02:43 PM
The only Ultra Compact 1911 style pistol, barrel/slide shorter than 4.25" Commander length) I'd even consider reliable enough to carry would be the Springfield Armory EMP. It's down sized action, over .45ACP length ones, offer a larger operating window in a shortened 1911.

I'm not sure I'd feel very comfortable with a 1911 shoved into a backpack as opposed to a holster. My personal inclination would be something like a Kahr CW9

rockhopper46038
October 23, 2013, 02:44 PM
I personally would suggest you look to a different platform if you want to go that small. I carry a Bill Wilson Carry pistol, which is a 4" slide on an Officer size frame, and that is as short as I think is prudent in a 1911. I know that many sub-compact 1911s from various manufacturers perform fine, but the geometry of chambering plus the recoil impulse seems like it gets pretty sketchy in the 1911 once you get under 4". In fact, I had to be convinced on the BWC - I had always carried a full sized 5" and was only interested in seriously considering a 4-1/4" Commander model as an alternative. If you really want to get something shorter than the 4" BWC, I'd stay with one of the manufacturers that have been doing it for awhile - not one of the newer companies on the 1911 scene. Again, a Commander length model is going to carry awfully well; do you really need to take another inch off the slide for your purposes?

JTQ
October 23, 2013, 03:19 PM
I'm a 1911 guy, but you may want to read through this thread.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=731940

You're rolling the dice with those 3" guns. The 1911 works best as a 5" gun. Commander length, 4.25" are OK.

Madcap_Magician
October 23, 2013, 03:50 PM
I looked into the EMP and it seems as if it is either an absolute hit or miss. Some people with the EMP love it to death and others say that even after sending it to the factory twice it still does not function (stove pipes etc). I am not set on any particular caliber and am perfectly fine with 40 cal.

Well, that's more or less the story with all Officer- and Defender-sized 1911s, so you pays your money, and you takes your chances...

At least with a Springfield you know that if it doesn't work, they'll make it right.

David E
October 23, 2013, 04:31 PM
Although my Glock 23 is technically a compact, it is too big for me to fit into my hunting pack when I go hunting so I am looking for a ultra compact.

Seriously?

Consider the obvious: a Glock 27

.

oldandslow
October 23, 2013, 06:47 PM
crash, 10/24/13

I have a Springer Ultracompact .45 as well as a full size Govt. model and other non-1911's. Even after four thousand rounds and different mags, springs and extractor it still has a 3% failure to feed rate. In my reading from different forums the sub-4" 1911's are often problematic. The one pistol I see consistently good reviews on is the Colt Defender. So as others have said in the above posts it may be wise to consider other options. Good luck.

best wishes- oldandslow

Coltdriver
October 23, 2013, 07:44 PM
I would go with a Colt Officers. If you want lighter get a Colt New Agent.

When hunting I always have a side arm but I focus on lighter and even my Colt Officers weighs too much to lug all over the woods.

So I have a Glock 27. If you want .45 and capacity is not a problem look at the 36 or for capacity a 30.

I know you said 1911 and I think hunting is a great reason to buy any 1911.

Let us know what you decide on.

Zerodefect
October 23, 2013, 08:38 PM
Dan Wesson ECO.

A 4" 1911 is about the same size as a Glock 23. The above is a hair smaller.

gpjoe
October 23, 2013, 08:52 PM
I've got three 1911s that are compact (less than 5"):

A 9mm Springfield EMP, a Kimber Ultra CDP II, and a stainless steel Colt Commander XSE.

I don't have a high round count through any of them, less than 1000 rounds each, but I am confident enough in any of the three to bet my life on them. All three are in my regular carry rotation.

All of them fit your budget.

Yeah, I said it: I carry a Kimber. :neener:

Scuba_Steve
October 23, 2013, 09:06 PM
^^^^^^^
I've got three 1911s that are compact (less than 5")... :A 9mm Springfield EMP, a Kimber Ultra CDP II, and a stainless steel Colt. Yeah, I said it: I carry a Kimber.

Crash32- I agree with the above, check your PM please.

David E
October 23, 2013, 09:38 PM
If you want .45 and capacity is not a problem look at the 36 or for capacity a 30.

Except these are very, very close in size to the 23, which he says is too big to stow in his pack...

.

gym
October 23, 2013, 11:31 PM
Kimber has been making small 1911's longer than anyone else. I would stick with them when it comes to a 3 inch size.

tarosean
October 24, 2013, 12:09 AM
Im sure you have your reasons. However I have to ask, why would you not want a full size pistol for use while hunting? The longer sight radius would be ideal in the great outdoors.

9mmepiphany
October 24, 2013, 12:12 AM
Kimber has been making small 1911's longer than anyone else. I would stick with them when it comes to a 3 inch size.
I believe Colt produced their Officer's ACP quite a few years before Kimber started...and they are still in production.

Before that, the first production Sub-compact 1911 was the Detonics Combat Master

optimator
October 24, 2013, 12:56 AM
I've carried my Kimber UC II for quite a while now. I have over 1,000 trouble free rounds thru it. I have plenty of others that I could carry, but I have 110% confidence in my Kimber.

JDR
October 24, 2013, 10:24 AM
I agree with the Dan Wesson ECO

Tirod
October 24, 2013, 01:48 PM
Hunting pack carry, haven't heard that one yet.

Consider the SIG P938. If you want small, then it's about making the frame and slide smaller, too. Cutting down .45's makes them notoriously finicky, but when they are engineered from the start as a compact 9, it's different. The slide weight and style of lockup work better rather than forcing a traditional 1911 to work against it's design.

Most of the 1911's on the market have a wide variety of deviations, up to and include DA and double stack. I know "1911" has a recognizable look, but it's the controls that really define it's operation. The P938 has those controls in the same locations, just right sized for a small pistol. It's worth a look and it fits the budget realistically, cause after a few more mags, a couple new holsters, etc, tell me we don't overspend our budgets 25%.

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductList/pistols-p938.aspx

markallen
October 24, 2013, 09:52 PM
STI Spartan III. 3" .45ACP.

I have owned, carried, and shot a Springfield Micro, Detonics Combat Master, Para P-12, and currently the STI.

The Detonics was ammo sensitive it didn't like truncated bullets but otherwise was a 100% reliable. No problems with the Springfield. The Para was a piece of junk.
The STI has functioned with every type of bullet I have put through it so far, with no malfunctions of any kind.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc303/markallenfrancis/JULY7TH2013016_zps2efcddc1.jpg (http://s219.photobucket.com/user/markallenfrancis/media/JULY7TH2013016_zps2efcddc1.jpg.html)

Teachu2
October 25, 2013, 12:19 AM
Or just get a bigger pack....

gym
October 25, 2013, 01:00 AM
I just take that as a given "9". Kimber does make a variety of small guns though. I would think they outsell the other gun makers in that area. I remember about 3-4 yrs ago, Mass saying we have Kimber to thank for bringing back the 1911 craze. Since then it's gone even crazier. No doubt Colt has time and grade, in as far as the 1911, being the original manufacturers, but without getting into a long scenario, I would think that right now, Kimber make the best 3" gun out there. Unless you want to step up to the super grade guns, like the Wilsons Fusions and 5 thousand dollar toys that are hand crafted.
Kimber has had ups and downs but I would still opt for a 3" Custom Carry for the money. Or the no longer in production SIS, CDP, and a few others that are like a fine watch.
Just my 3 cents, An old German, gunsmiths wife once told me "Gun is like fine Jewlery for man". She was right.
I also would opt for a Cobra Custom Carry, from Ed Brown, if we could push the size up a notch.

UKWildcatFan
October 25, 2013, 08:07 AM
Kimber Ultra Raptor II

Johannes_Paulsen
October 25, 2013, 09:00 AM
I have to agree on the EMP -- if you can get it to work reliably, it is an awesome little carry pistol.

Mine jammed on day one. It worked perfectly for six months after it came back from the Springfield factory, then it started with the FTE's all over again. (Ammunition was not a factor.) I ended up trading it in, and now carry a Glock.

Lovely little gun, though. Shot wonderfully. Very little felt recoil, and fit my (smaller than average) hands quite nicely.

G27RR
October 25, 2013, 09:37 AM
I'm partial to the STI Shadow. See review in my signature.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n634/G27RR/STIloadout2.jpg

tarosean
October 25, 2013, 09:45 AM
Unless you want to step up to the super grade guns, like the Wilsons Fusions and 5 thousand dollar toys that are hand crafted.


Wilson's smallest gun is a 3.6", not sure about Fusion, but the other semi-custom makers dont go below 4"..


My shortest barreled 1911 is 4" (Gov, sized grip).
My newest one is a 4.25" on a (Officers Frame) I dont recall the common term for that
particular term that DW coined.. Although its not a DW.

4" is low as I would personally go.

PabloJ
October 25, 2013, 10:04 AM
I have 5 handguns and my smallest one is a Glock 23 and the biggest one being a S&W 500 mag lol. Although my Glock 23 is technically a compact, it is too big for me to fit into my hunting pack when I go hunting so I am looking for a ultra compact.
I could not bring myself to buy a cheap gun so I have decided to go up to the 1911 platform for this. My price range is around $1,000 (900 to 1,300ish).
While I do not want to spend the coin associated for a Wilson Combat Ultra Compact ($3,000+) as I am waiting to spend that kind of money for a full size 1911 I still want to get something nice hence me going with a 1911 as opposed to a Kel-Tec etc.

Thanks guys
I would not trust subcompact 1911. When I needed ultra compact defensive pistol used R9 "fell" into my pocket.

2wheels
October 25, 2013, 10:40 AM
Wilson's smallest gun is a 3.6", not sure about Fusion, but the other semi-custom makers dont go below 4"..


My shortest barreled 1911 is 4" (Gov, sized grip).
My newest one is a 4.25" on a (Officers Frame) I dont recall the common term for that
particular term that DW coined.. Although its not a DW.

4" is low as I would personally go.
CCO is the term you're looking for, and it was actually Colt that created the name.

gym
October 25, 2013, 11:51 AM
I still think that sticking with the guys who make the specialty 3" guns, "Kimber" gives you a better chance of a gun that will be reliable. Mainly because they specialize in those Ultra's. The EMP I had was a good gun, but I did have a Recoil spring assembly and sight failure. I replaced the front Night sight, "it blew out" I think the stiff recoil may have been responsible from the 40. and that little gun forever left a pain in my left hand from re assembling it, without the tool.
It still is not a true 1911 in the 9 and 40. cal, I always think of 1911's as a 45. The new Rock Island guns with the blank slide are nice guns to mess around with for 4-700, leaving you money for upgrades down the road. Why not try that compact tactical? it's a sharp looking gun with good reviews. Look at Buds, everyone seems to like it, you can get some nice grips, a good polishing of the internals, and a night sight put on it and have a nice little gun. Even get the frame bead blasted, for the two tone look.

rodinal220
October 25, 2013, 12:04 PM
Colt Officers,Defender,Agent. I still take out my old Colt LWOM in a Milt Sparks SS from time to time. After some much needed after market support it is a reliable gun.These short 1911 type guns are spring killers. I switch out my recoil spring every 300-500 rounds,firing pin spring 1k,and Wolff extra power mag springs in my Colt factory mag bodies when they show signs of not being able to keep up with slide velocity.

tarosean
October 25, 2013, 12:47 PM
CCO is the term you're looking for, and it was actually Colt that created the name.

That's it.... Cannot says as I've ever heard it referring to a Colt though.. Course I'm not as "plugged in" as most..

JTQ
October 25, 2013, 12:56 PM
That's it.... Cannot says as I've ever heard it referring to a Colt though.. Course I'm not as "plugged in" as most..

For reference

http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/23/massad-ayoob-the-colt-concealed-carry-officers-and-its-niche-mates/

gym
October 25, 2013, 11:59 PM
Springs a relatively inexpensive, changing them once or twice a year is not an Imposition.

orionengnr
October 26, 2013, 06:07 PM
Of the nearly 25 1911s I have owned, a number of them have been 3"ers, and all but one of those alloy framed.

My best experiences have been with Kimbers--two Stainless Ultra Carry IIs, one ultra CDP (pre-series II) and one Ultra CDP II (wife's current handgun).

As regards the EMP, my exploits have been posted previously, but the Cliff's Notes version is this: First one went back to Geneseo, stayed there for a while and was replaced by a second (different frame number), which also went back...twice for me and once more for the subsequent owner, who bought it with full disclosure and at a significant discount. And a whole bunch of spare mags, since Springfield sent me a spare mag every time I returned the pistol. Nice touch. :)

He actually offered to sell it back to me about two years ago (finally working correctly) and I actually met him at the range, tried it out and considered it.

But sanity prevailed. My Ultra Carry II (and the wife's Ultra CDP II) weigh the same as the EMP, fit the same holsters as the EMP, and shoot any type of .45acp ammo ...reliably.

The EMP is exquisitely designed, imperfectly executed and significantly overpriced for what it is. IMHO.

YMMV...and I hope it does.

But when people say that you cannot buy or own a 3" 1911 in .45acp, I call BS. I have owned at least four so far, and currently own two. Mine shoot my 200gr SWC handloads like candy...and any type of JHP equally easily.

flatlander937
October 26, 2013, 07:35 PM
I like 1911s but smallest I'd go is a CCO variation(commander length slide and officers grip length).

I have a Kahr CM9 for CCW and love it. I shoot it better than my 4.25 1911. I like it so much I'm pretty sure I'll buy a CW9 to match it and remain in my car. The CW9 holds 7+1 and you might really like it.

If you enjoyed reading about "Need suggestions for Ultra compact 1911 for carry use." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!