a deer is just a big varmint


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mainecoon
October 23, 2013, 07:22 PM
I live in a state where 22 caliber centerfire rifles are legal for deer. I'm interested to use a 22-250 varmint rifle and hunt from a stand. Would this be considered ethical, and what type of shot placement would be acceptable for this caliber? "Perfect" shots only?

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KC45
October 23, 2013, 08:08 PM
I have a friend from GA who hunts hogs with me here every November and he has been using his Remington BDL 22-250 for past 10+ years and he always takes home couple hogs. He's a very good shot and he only takes head shots on hogs and never seen him miss... from 30 yards to 300 yards. Every hog dropped on the spot. I bet in past 10 years he's shot 40 rounds and got 40 hogs.

ClickClickD'oh
October 23, 2013, 08:13 PM
I cull does on the ranch with .223, so yeah .22-250 will work. I'd only use it when I knew I had an absolute kill shot at relative close range though.

Art Eatman
October 23, 2013, 10:28 PM
The last dozen or so years of R&D by the bullet makers has resulted in controlled-expansion 22-caliber bullets which will do well on Bambi.

Typically, in the weight range of 60 to 70 or so grains.

BigBore44
October 23, 2013, 11:24 PM
Have to agree with Art on this one. The new heavier 22 cal controlled expansion bullets are very capable at dispatching Bambi. They will shred lungs, and explode hearts. Just remember, "Aim small, miss small".

Geno
October 23, 2013, 11:29 PM
Have you looked into Hornaday's .224 caliber GMX projectiles? Solid copper, hollow point. That is a serious round!

Link: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/834080/hornady-gilding-metal-expanding-bullets-22-caliber-224-diameter-55-grain-gmx-lead-free-box-of-50

Geno

GooseGestapo
October 24, 2013, 11:23 AM
I've shot a number of deer with my .22-250 (Rem.ADL w/24"bbl). 12 or 13, I've lost count.
The biggest impediment to using the .22-250 for deer (our deer aren't that big... does run 90-130lbs and bucks 110-210lbs; -had a "spike" near smaller number in my back yard 30min ago.... He ignored the corn and was hitting the white oak acorns and persimmons... So much for "supplemental feeding" at this time of year...) is rifling twist.

My .22-250 has the "typical" 1/14" twist barrel. It will shoot a 63gr Sierra Semi-Pt Spt and Hornady 60gr PtSpt, but the 55 and 60gr V-max are a "disaster" and the 65gr Sierra BtSpt "GameKing" shoots ~4" groups with "tipped" bullets showing on the target.

Hence, I limit it to 60-63gr bullets... However, the 55gr Hornady's and Siera's do just as well.
Just as with a .243 or such, shot-placement is paramount.

I've killed over 150 deer in the past 25yrs with .22cf's. They are very capable with proper ammo and decent shot placement. A very significant "IF"....

Personnally, I prefer a .257wby to the .22-250; with 100gr or 115-117gr bullets.
But then again, the most spectacular bullet failure I've ever seen was with the 115gr Nosler Ballistic-tip at 3,350fps from my .257wby.... Next most spectacular failure was with 100gr BallisticTips from .257Roberts...
so, it's not just the .22's that need proper bullets and placement. That goes for any caliber/cartridge...

Under 75yds, a neck/head shot is "ok", but deer seldom "freeze" giving you a perfectly still shot. I prefer broadside heart/lung shots. I've seen them drop dead from hits from a .22Hornet and 35gr V-max, and same shot placement, one ran 100+yds hit by .35Rem with 200gr FTX... go figure!
The other draw back to .22cf's is lack of blood trail. It took 2hrs to track the first deer I shot with a .22-250, though he only ran ~150yds. It was a thick creek bottom and trail was just a drop here and a drop there....
My "fiest" made it look easy after I put her on the trail, however (small "squirrel dog" She's trained to "blood trail" wounded game... a real day/work saver for sure!).

thomis
October 24, 2013, 08:35 PM
.22 rimfire allowed here in NC to take whitetail, I believe their "idea" or "reasoning" is to allow low power rifles in the take of whitetails in more urbanized areas where deer increasingly occur. I, myself have take almost a dozen now with rimfire, both .22 LR and .22 WMR, all head shots, of course, with no problem and 100% effective drops on the animals.

thomis
October 24, 2013, 08:37 PM
I don't agree, however, that a deer is a varmint. Just had to add that..

Kachok
October 25, 2013, 03:20 AM
Just don't use varmint bullets, a V-Max will fail on contact leaving a nasty but shallow wound on a deer. Unless you hit the head or neck with that you will almost certainly cause a slow death for the animal. Stick to Sierra Game Kings, Barnes TSX, GMX, or Nosler Partition. Though Power Points and Core-Lokts seem to hold together well enough for smallish sized deer.
I do not recommend using a 22 on deer class game but with the right bullet and precise shot placement it can work reasonably well.
A 243 or 257 caliber is VASTLY better in every measurable way for deer class game.

tnxdshooter
October 25, 2013, 05:50 AM
Have to agree with Art on this one. The new heavier 22 cal controlled expansion bullets are very capable at dispatching Bambi. They will shred lungs, and explode hearts. Just remember, "Aim small, miss small".

Lol okay Mel

tahunua001
October 25, 2013, 02:58 PM
22-250 is a perfectly legitimate deer round. my older brother has killed deer with 22LR and 223 so your 22/250 is more than capable of killing deer given proper shot placement.

jmr40
October 26, 2013, 01:38 AM
With proper bullets I'm in the camp that believes the 223 and 22-250 are legitimate deer rounds. The only reservations I have with the 22-250 is that most of them have barrrel twists that may not shoot the heavier bullets designed for big game. I wouldn't use a varmit bullet in 223, 22-250 or even 30-06 for deer.

On the other hand I know several very successful hunters that have been using the 22-250 exclusively since the 80's. Never asked about loads, but am willing to bet they were probably using varmit bullets. Especially years ago. Hard to argue with success.

ugaarguy
October 26, 2013, 03:34 AM
I've seen the results of .224" 55 grain ballistic tip bullets out of .223/5.56 rifles used by friends. Deer aren't heavily built like hogs. Place the shot in the rib cage, behind the shoulder. They have enough velocity to get through the entry side of the rib cage, and then basically explode, turning the lungs into liquid. You'll rarely if ever get an exit wound, but the entry wounds tend to gush blood. Bambi doesn't walk far with his or her lungs vanished.

buck460XVR
October 26, 2013, 02:17 PM
I don't agree, however, that a deer is a varmint.


I agree. But even varmints deserve to be killed humanely and quickly using proper equipment and shot placement. When using marginal tools like the 22-250 for deer, using proper projectiles and waiting for a quality shot to present itself is more important than just what's legal to use.

Hanshi
October 26, 2013, 06:48 PM
Centerfire .22s can do the trick on deer. I've killed a few with a .22 Hornet and Hornet factory ammo. One shot each was all it took. Have to say, however, the rifle is a tack driver with a marvelous trigger (Kimber of Oregon) and easy to shoot. I shot carefully and hit two in the neck and they dropped DRT. Never lost a deer with this rifle. Shot a big buck behind the front leg and he only ran 40 to 50 yards with a blood trail you could follow at night!

CDW4ME
October 27, 2013, 10:24 AM
My two boys both killed their fist deer last fall using a .223
The bullet was a Nosler 60 gr. Partition going just over 2,800 fps out of the AR's short barrel.

jack44
October 27, 2013, 10:39 AM
I would use either Barnes or Hornady in 60gr or so - just make sure your not to far away and aim for the head.

gonefishin1
October 27, 2013, 08:06 PM
I have zero issues with shooting deer and hogs with my 223. I just don't take any shot I see though. a friend of mine has killed dozens of deer with a 22 hornet(but he is a better shot than me). I have always wanted a 22-250 for a general purpose rifle. you shouldn't have any problems under 125yards with a good 55 grain bullet.

hardluk1
October 28, 2013, 06:01 PM
Just got to know when to let a deer walk on by if that just right shot is not offered. I new a now gone on man that hunted with a 22hornet and a 55gr sp for 45 years takeing hogs deer and a few black bear. he let a lot walk on too. We never had to hunt for his game after a shot ether.

hipoint
October 28, 2013, 11:26 PM
I'll second that notion, deer are awful around here. I have constant battle with them, luckily they can't shoot back.

as posted earlier, .22 rimfire is legal in N.C., I no longer use .22 L.R. after a couple mishaps with squib ammo, but .22 mag does just fine for us. I can't count the deer that have been put either in my or my friend's freezers using our depredation permits and a .22 caliber.

However, unless I'm legally spotlighting (allowed with the permits on my farm) I opt to use something larger. Less chance for error there. I mainly only use the .22's so I don't bother the neighbors too much at night.

d2wing
November 1, 2013, 12:41 PM
I have shot large deer with 55 gr soft points. Lung and heart shot work really well, the lungs were mush and the 14 point buck was dead in seconds.

PapaG
November 5, 2013, 07:25 PM
I understand your premise but a deer is NOT a big varmint. Few people, if any, mount varmints or eat them. Deer deserve (as do all animals) a quick kill without suffering. I've had way too many clowns come in the shop and complain about their ARs or whatever not "knocking down" a deer at whatever yardage. I agree that you can humanely kill deer with the .22 cfs but hope that you are taking clear, clean shots with proper bullets and utilizing your harvest.
No derision intended. Just feel they deserve a little more respect than calling them "varmints".

Officers'Wife
November 5, 2013, 07:32 PM
I understand your premise but a deer is NOT a big varmint. Few people, if any, mount varmints or eat them. Deer deserve (as do all animals) a quick kill without suffering. I've had way too many clowns come in the shop and complain about their ARs or whatever not "knocking down" a deer at whatever yardage. I agree that you can humanely kill deer with the .22 cfs but hope that you are taking clear, clean shots with proper bullets and utilizing your harvest.
No derision intended. Just feel they deserve a little more respect than calling them "varmints".
You can say that, it's clear you have never picked a field of soybeans expecting a yield of 30 bushels to the acre and only seeing 4 to 5 bushel and a lot of deer tracks. Or picked corn seeing ears on the ground with maybe a half inch of kernels missing where deer have taken one bite then move on to the next plant.

While deer may be edible and challenging that doesn't negate the fact they are destructive pests. If it were allowed by Indiana law I would not only bait the animals but use deadfall trapping techniques I was taught on the Res.

PapaG
November 5, 2013, 08:19 PM
Didn't mean to sound preachy......if you have that big a problem go for the depredation permits and have at them.
I grow corn, sunflowers, millet, and a few garden crops besides. I lost five acres of corn to my neighbor's cows a couple years ago. Would have loved to harvest one of them.

Officers'Wife
November 6, 2013, 05:06 AM
Indiana only allows five dep permits.

IIRC Illinois has an at large law where the owner would be required to reimburse you for such damages. With deer, the great white father will take no such responsibility.

buck460XVR
November 6, 2013, 08:50 AM
Again....deer are a game animal, not a varmint. The main reason they have become pests in many areas is because hunters themselves protect and harbor them on private lands with no access. Most states have liberal hunting seasons for deer, but the hunters and landowners themselves limit the amount of deer taken. Many of these folks are the same ones with crop damage claims. They want lots of deer, limit the amount of deer taken on their property and don't allow access to others to harvest more of them. But they still want to be paid for crop damage.

Regardless, as I and others have said, Varmints and game animals, large and small, all deserve to die quickly and humanely. Using calibers and firearms marginal to doing that effectively only increases the odds they will suffer. Add to the use of marginal tools, an irresponsible attitude that the quarry deserves no respect and you have a wounded and irretrievable animal.

Art Eatman
November 6, 2013, 12:28 PM
When it's against the law to shoot any gun, as in most municipalities, and deer move in in large numbers because of drouth, yup, they're pestiferous varmints. :D

You can then wind up with a 50/50 split of opinions: "Oh, they're so cute!" vs. "Rats with hooves!"

One example: http://cityoflakeway.com/index.aspx?NID=195

The count at one time was some 1,500. Note that in general, there is a high mortality rate in trapped/transported deer--and the cost is not trivial.

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