New Sphinx Pistols


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Safetyfirst
October 24, 2013, 03:43 AM
From what I can find they're a little pricey. The manufacturer states that parts are individually hand-fitted for tighter tolerances. The heaviest stainless steel model is still under 29 ounces. The SA pull is supposed to be one of the best out there at 3.3 pounds. I think they're great if you have that much cash lying around, what do you think?

http://www.sphinxarms.com/index.php/sdp-compact-line

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PabloJ
October 24, 2013, 07:09 AM
Sorry no comment.

Walt Sherrill
October 24, 2013, 09:01 AM
I've had several of the older, 2000 series Sphinx pistols. They are every bit as good as claimed. They are, in effect, semi-custom CZs.

Mine were just so pretty (high gloss stainless frames) that I didn't want to mess up their prettiness. Some of the newer ones have different frames: steel, steel/polymer, or polymer.

bannockburn
October 24, 2013, 11:08 AM
I remember the earlier Sphinx models as well and they had a very high level of fit and finish. These new ones don't appear to be as nicely finished and look more like they're copies of the CZ P-07 design.

Walt Sherrill
October 24, 2013, 02:14 PM
I remember the earlier Sphinx models as well and they had a very high level of fit and finish. These new ones don't appear to be as nicely finished and look more like they're copies of the CZ P-07 design.

The new Sphinx guns do look somewhat like a P-07, but the frame design is quite different. The new Sphinx models have modular frames which can be all steel, half steel half polymer, or all polymer. The company says they are designed for mass production, so the level of fit and finish is likely to be less high-end than prior models; the prices are supposed to be less than half the price of the older (more hand-fit) models. Here's a link to their website.

http://www.sphinxarms.com/

To satisfy my own curiousity, I downloaded the USERS manuals from both the Sphinx and CZ websites, and the two guns have major differences that range from the barrel lockup method (which in the case of the CZ is more like the SIG, while the Sphinx is more like the older CZ-75), to many other differences in how the guns perform similar functions.

The P-07 is clearly seems designed to be a polymer-framed design, with more reliance on MODULAR units internally than the Sphinx. Externally, they look a LOT alike; internally, they're quite different.

.

mmissile
October 25, 2013, 08:06 PM
I have the compact in lay-away, plus a sub-compact and Kryptonight coming in the first batch shipped to my FFL's from Kriss.:)

Walt Sherrill
October 25, 2013, 10:08 PM
I have the compact in lay-away, plus a sub-compact and Kryptonight coming in the first batch shipped to my FFL's from Kriss.

It's not nice to brag like that.... (Let us know how they shoot!!)

Edarnold
October 25, 2013, 10:33 PM
Goodness! 29 ounces: won't that enormous weight drag your trousers down when holstered? Why would you want funny looking gun made by furriners and costing a lot of money when you could get a Glock?

Sorry, I was having a flashback to the HK P7 discussion...

Pilot
October 26, 2013, 08:53 AM
Meh. More railed, boxy crap.

M2 Carbine
October 26, 2013, 09:54 AM
I've had the AT.380M for some years now. As I recall it was a little expensive but it's a nice gun.

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Sphinx_zpsacae93d8.jpg (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/Bell-helicopter-407/media/Sphinx_zpsacae93d8.jpg.html)


Mostly I'm not a fan of DAO guns but the Sphinx is right smooth and accurate. This one shoots a little low and left though.

10 yards.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Sphinx10yards_zpsa25eb5b3.jpg (http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/Bell-helicopter-407/media/Sphinx10yards_zpsa25eb5b3.jpg.html)


Can't say I like the looks of those new guns.



.

PabloJ
October 26, 2013, 10:21 AM
Goodness! 29 ounces: won't that enormous weight drag your trousers down when holstered? Why would you want funny looking gun made by furriners and costing a lot of money when you could get a Glock?

Sorry, I was having a flashback to the HK P7 discussion...
The high cost is for privilege of owning and shooting one of their products. You know like the "prestige" of wearing watch with little gold crown on the dial. While not as accurate as my Casio these are frighteningly expensive and only very rich people wear them.

5-SHOTS
October 26, 2013, 01:07 PM
Yes, they are pricey, but they are very, very fine pieces of machinery with tight tolerances and high quality materials. The new ones are not as good looking as the old ones (they are kind of more aggressive looking) with a particular two piece frame, but I'm jet to see better groups on paper than the Sphinx's ones on the gun magazines.

bc1023
October 26, 2013, 09:44 PM
From what I can find they're a little pricey. The manufacturer states that parts are individually hand-fitted for tighter tolerances. The heaviest stainless steel model is still under 29 ounces. The SA pull is supposed to be one of the best out there at 3.3 pounds. I think they're great if you have that much cash lying around, what do you think?

New?

This line is newer, but there is nothing new about Sphinx pistols. They are very high quality clones of the CZ 75 design.

bc1023
October 26, 2013, 09:51 PM
I have a Sphinx Competitor, which is a very rare competition oriented version of the 2000 series. In my opinion, the 2000 series where the best pistols they ever built. :)

The Competitor has the comp and is factory drilled for mounting optics. I'm not one for optics, but the gun is extremely well built and shoots lights out.


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/000_1914.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/ollituc/media/000_1914.jpg.html)

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/000_1915.jpg (http://s636.photobucket.com/user/ollituc/media/000_1915.jpg.html)

runlevelsix
October 26, 2013, 10:39 PM
Pass. We already have enough pistols on the market with a ridiculous price because of the name.

Walt Sherrill
October 26, 2013, 11:09 PM
This line is newer, but there is nothing new about Sphinx pistols. They are very high quality clones of the CZ 75 design.

The company that later became Sphinx (or was a predecessor), ITM, built a number of licensed clones of the CZ. The earliest was the AT-84. Their later guns were similar, but based on the Tanfoglio-pattern, which was and is similar, but no longer a clone. I have had several AT-84s models, and have a custom AT-84s that is as good or better than the two Sphinxes I once owned. They (both 2000 series) were very high quality.

The newest guns, if you examine them closely (by comparing the parts diagrams, etc., which I did a day or so ago), are even less clones than before -- they've gone a somewhat different route that either CZ or Tanfoglio.

They seem to be nice guns, and the company has a reputation for building quality guns. If the new ones are priced much lower than the old ones, and that is their claimed intent, they should be real competition for all of the CZ-pattern guns with which they will compete. (It's hard to call these CZ-pattern, as they are quite different internally.)

TennJed
October 27, 2013, 12:11 AM
that AT 380 is very interesting. I am a big fan of slide mounted safety/decockers. Is it a double stack? Do you have the specs on it?

PabloJ
October 27, 2013, 05:40 AM
that AT 380 is very interesting. I am a big fan of slide mounted safety/decockers. Is it a double stack? Do you have the specs on it?
It's rich man's CZ83.

mmissile
October 27, 2013, 12:02 PM
They[Sphinx/Kriss] are lowering the retail prices of the new models. I shot the compact, and it's VERY nice.

Walt Sherrill
October 27, 2013, 01:32 PM
It's rich man's CZ83.
The AT380 is double-stack (10 rounds), Double Action Only (with safety) and much smaller than the CZ-83. I'd argue that it's more like a slightly larger double-stack Seecamp than a CZ-83.

Tirod
October 28, 2013, 10:10 PM
Ok, time out.

The manufacturer states that parts are individually hand-fitted for tighter tolerances.

That's not how it works. Either they can build the parts to standard, or they can't.

Tolerances are whatever you say they are, especially if they are ISO cert. All ISO does is certify whatever you say your standards are, they are, but only if you document it. That's all.

So, if someone says they have "tight tolerances," well, ain't that nice. What numbers do they say they are using? What do they mean, and are they even any good?

Tolerances of plus and minus .030" aren't much to write home about, and .015" is pretty normal for combat guns. Are they going even smaller? Fine - which then leaves me asking, why do they have to hand file the part to fit if it's already within .015?

In the day, the reason you hand fitted the parts (and why you still have to for 1911's,) is that the parts don't hold a tolerance within the window of functioning if they were just put together. All those wonderful Pre '64 Winchester HAD to be hand fitted because the parts were actually pretty horrible and couldn't hold a working tolerance.

Note very carefully - you buy parts for an AR15, you get parts that work together regardless if they came from 5 different sources. Like mine. Can't do that with the 1911. Apparently, you can't do that with this maker, either.

This doesn't have anything to do with clearances - which is the space a gun has to have for the parts to actually work with each other and not hang up. Oh, look, the 1911 again. Get a rattly loose one that you can shake the slide and see the front sight tip from side to side, sure, standard issue in the day, even after an arsenal rework. Plenty of us shot them Expert. Tighten up the clearances and oops, it starts hanging up and you get FTF and FTE - like all the new ones.

AR15 - same thing. You can have enough slop between the upper and lower receiver to insert playing cards, it will still shoot expert. Ask me how I know. Add orings, wedges, whatever, and all you do is think it's better - it's still a 2MOA barrel. That's all the Army asked for, and all they issue.

You can tighten up the tolerances all day, but it's expensive. What gun makers do is measure that batch and combine it with other parts that are also in tolerance - and which, when assembled, meet the tolerances for the assembly. Do that, the assemblies work better. If you don't, you can stack up a whole bunch of tight tolerance parts and still be OUT of tolerance as an assembly.

What it sounds like is these guys then pass a file on the important surfaces and get them back. In which case what you are really seeing is that it was cheaper to do it by hand than make the parts conform to the window in the first place. That's not a good testimony of the quality manufacture of parts. It really means either the tooling is in poor shape, or the operators don't know what they are doing.

Having spent time on the production floor making parts on an Amada 100 ton brake press, and working for a contractor expediting battery production for Dept. of Defense powered projectiles, you get an understanding of what tolerances, clearances, and marketing hype is. From my perspective, a gun maker claiming tighter tolerances and hand fit assembly is a gun maker talking out of two sides of their face at the same time.

What's nice is that it doesn't mean any thing about the product. It stands on it's own reputation, it either shoots or it doesn't. Enjoy it for what it is, not what marketing claims is going on. Frankly, those guys are the last ones I would ask.

mmissile
October 29, 2013, 08:42 AM
The new Sphinx SDP series, is their first "production" gun. Swiss stuff is amazing in quality. They build stuff sometimes, just because they can.[show-off] Anything that was Swiss-SIG, is nicer than the German counterpart/copy. Same with the newer American rifles/pistols.

J.Boyette
October 29, 2013, 12:51 PM
Guys,

I do not post much on THR. Heck it's been since 2011. Lol

But we have a SPHINX® SDP in use now for the last 60 days. Also with Bravo Concealment holsters. These are our short term findings when CCH and training.

New Pistol in Testing

We have a new pistol in testing now with Trace Armory Group .LLC. (www.tracearmory.com) We were offered to test out the new SPHINX® SDP compact. To say the staff was not a fan of DA/SA pistols was a understatement. But we inform you this mindset was based on the 92FS in our military days.

Once Scott and John went to a striker fired pistol they both fell for the old myth, same trigger pull on every shot is better than DA/SA. Well we must eat crow, the last 60days running the SPHINX® SDP compact has changed our view. It's funny that after running 92FS, some HK's and even Sig's we have found that a properly tuned DA/SA is not all that bad. Let us tell you the short end of why:


On rhythm fire or controlled pairs we teach to run the trigger reset for the follow on shots, so the pull weight of shots 2 to 14 does not matter, the crispness of the reset and travel to the trigger reset matters. The SPHINX® SDP has a reset where it should reset at, physically and mentally.
Having a hammer is nice, when re-holstering you should place your thumb over it, if any debris is in the holster from rolling on the ground the debris could manipulate the trigger. If you feel the hammer start to cock, you stop the pistols motion in holstering and clean out the holster, this prevents ND’s into your leg. Granted this is not unique to the SPHINX® SDP, but it's a imposable act on a striker fired pistol.
The DA trigger pull is not a weight issue, it’s a quality trigger work issue. The SPHINX® SDP compact has a DA pull of 10lbs, but its smooth, so smooth during the total travel of the European style trigger pad, students and the staff get first shots on the target where we want it at. No low ball shots like on every other DA/SA pistol we have used or seen others use.

That’s just some of the findings on the SPHINX® SDP compact for now. We have a long time to go, and when you come to a Trace Armory Group .LLC Sentinel Program Course in 2014, you can try it out for yourself.

John

alexander45
October 29, 2013, 07:19 PM
Can't say I like the look of the new ones too much. But the older ones posted here are quite nice

Walt Sherrill
October 29, 2013, 07:27 PM
I had a couple of the 2000 series Sphinx guns. They were marvelous. The only negative, for me, was the high gloss stainless frames -- which (as all high-gloss finishes do) showed all the little marks and scratches that come from use.

The blemishes could be polished out without too much trouble, but I found myself leaving the guns in the gun safe to keep from dealing with the cosmetic issues. They were THAT pretty.

Dumb? Probably, as they were great shooting guns. But, I also had a couple of others that shot almost as well, and one that shot just as well, so I let them go. I don't "worry" about the prettiness of my other guns.

The new ones are true service pistols, rather than semi-custom service-pistol-like weapons. I'm looking forward to seeing one, and someday trying one out.

If the prices are lower, we may soon see a LOT MORE Sphinx weapons.

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