Rifle to pistol conversions


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X9ballX
October 24, 2013, 10:59 AM
Wasn't sure if this was to go into pistols or rifles section. Mods please move accordingly.

I seen plenty of Ar15s set up as pistols under legal definition. I know that you may buy receivers that are set up as pistols in paperwork, even though there is no physical difference.

I also know putting stocks on handguns automatically makes it a short barreled rifle. Not legal without proper paperwork.

So what about rifle to pistol? I seen an m1carbine by iver johnson known as the enforcer. It was set up as a pistol from the start. But lets say somone wanted to build a similar setup on a mini 14 or rebuild a m1carbine as an enforcer?

I have also seen a mosin nagant turned into a pistol.

So how is this legally done?

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Sam1911
October 24, 2013, 11:26 AM
Hi!

We've just been discussing this in a few threads -- I'll dig up the links for you in a moment.

The ATF says if it starts out as a rifle, it IS a rifle. Therefore (matching the wording of the 1934 National Firearms Act) if you make it into a firearm with less than a 16" barrel, or with an overall length of less than 26", you're making an NFA Title II-regulated weapon. What most call a Short Barreled Rifle. (Technically a "firearm made from a rifle.") You'd have to file a Form 1 to "make and register" a Title II firearm first.

The ATF says that if you have a pistol you can build it into a rifle and then back again, and so forth at will.

If you buy an "other firearm" (e.g. -- a bare receiver or stock-less firearm longer than 26") you can build it into a pistol and then a rifle, etc.

There are problems with the ATF's claims here, but that's the jist of it.

Skylerbone
October 24, 2013, 11:30 AM
There are some odd exceptions to the above however like the U22 Neos Carbine Conversion that turns a pistol into a rifle with a buttstock and 16 1/4" barrel with no paperwork required.

Sam1911
October 24, 2013, 11:38 AM
Well, that's swapping a pistol into a rifle. There is no problem with that, and never was. (Up until a couple of years ago the ATF did maintain that you could not swap BACK once you'd made a rifle out of it, but that's since changed.)

Kit guns sold as both (like the T/C kits which started the whole court case back in the '90s) can be swapped at will.

Skylerbone
October 24, 2013, 12:22 PM
No problems after the matter was defined, perhaps I mistakenly believed it was not permissible before, but the OP said this:

I also know putting stocks on handguns automatically makes it a short barreled rifle. Not legal without proper paperwork.

X9ballX
October 24, 2013, 01:13 PM
The question I had is what if someone wanted to turn a rifle into a pistol.

Sam1911
October 24, 2013, 04:46 PM
Right. So in post 2 I said:

"The ATF says if it starts out as a rifle, it IS a rifle. Therefore (matching the wording of the 1934 National Firearms Act) if you make it into a firearm with less than a 16" barrel, or with an overall length of less than 26", you're making an NFA Title II-regulated weapon. What most call a Short Barreled Rifle. (Technically a "firearm made from a rifle.") You'd have to file a Form 1 to "make and register" a Title II firearm first."

aarondhgraham
October 24, 2013, 05:13 PM
One has to be careful, even with the kits,,,
My Beretta NEOS Carbine Kit came with a warning label.

It cautioned the owner to never have the pistol barrel on the receiver,,,
When attaching the rifle stock to the serial numbered frame,,,
Like emptying/clearing a semi-automatic pistol,,,
There is a definite order to the steps.

Remove the barrel first,,,
Change to the desired stock,,,
Then reattach the appropriate length barrel.

I solved that problem by purchasing a second NEOS pistol,,,
It got permanently converted to the carbine,,,
I then sold the pistol barrel/stock.

Aarond

.

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