What Part is Viewed as the 'FIREARM"


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WALKERs210
October 25, 2013, 03:05 PM
I was thinking about this for some time, what part of an AR15 would be concerned the "FIREARM" or "GUN". If a rifle is disassembled into various parts so you could ship to another which is the one that would cause an issue.

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Sam1911
October 25, 2013, 03:06 PM
The lower receiver.

316SS
October 25, 2013, 03:06 PM
The lower receiver.

tahunua001
October 25, 2013, 03:24 PM
the stripped lower receiver is the part that is considered the firearm on AR15s. this varies from gun to gun though. with pistols, most often the frame is the gun but on rugers standard and 22/45s the upper half is the gun.

WALKERs210
October 25, 2013, 05:38 PM
Thanks for the input, but now another question is if the lower is stripped and each part removed is it still "The Gun"?

snorko
October 25, 2013, 05:40 PM
The bare lower receiver, devoid of all parts, is still a firearm legally.

Sam1911
October 25, 2013, 05:42 PM
Yes. That's the part that requires a 4473 for interstate transfers and is subject to the various regulations about shipping firearms.

WALKERs210
October 25, 2013, 07:16 PM
Like I have told my wife I have waaaay too much time on my hands now. First off I would never break any laws that might lead to me staying an a Cross Bar Hilton, cause their doors seem to stick closed. But I was just curious as to what could be done and what you should not even be concerned.

Thanks to all for input.

Vaarok
October 25, 2013, 07:28 PM
It's generally whatever is the most integral supporting component necessary for function. In the AR, it ties all the parts together in the proper spacing to function.

rcmodel
October 25, 2013, 07:48 PM
It's generally whatever is the most integral supporting component necessary for function.No, it's actually whatever part has the serial number & manufactures info stamped on it.

On an AR-15, it happens to be the lower receiver.

But stated above.
On the Ruger standard pistol, it's the barrel & tube 'upper' receiver.

Even though the lower receiver contains all the fire control parts.
Just like the AR-15 lower.

rc

Warp
October 25, 2013, 08:48 PM
No, it's actually whatever part has the serial number & manufactures info stamped on it.

On an AR-15, it happens to be the lower receiver.

But stated above.
On the Ruger standard pistol, it's the barrel & tube 'upper' receiver.

Even though the lower receiver contains all the fire control parts.
Just like the AR-15 lower.

rc

Just because a firearm part has a serial number on it, that does not mean it is a firearm or that it is subject to the laws regarding possession and transfer of firearms.

herrwalther
October 25, 2013, 09:48 PM
For ARs the serial number part of the lower receiver is "the firearm" as defined on the 4473. Some firearms use redundant serial numbers such as on the barrel, slide and a few places on the lower receiver.

rodinal220
October 26, 2013, 08:09 AM
Whatever BATFE says it is. The SIG P250 series is an example from the lower receiver deviation(normally it is the lower,but exceptions),the poly lower is not the GUN,the fire control module is.

The FN FAL lower is not the firearm,it houses the fire control group,the upper receiver is the controlled part.

Arizona_Mike
October 26, 2013, 12:46 PM
The whole gun (esp. when assembled) or the lower receiver.

Mike

WALKERs210
October 26, 2013, 04:23 PM
Years ago I had the unpleasant task of dealing with the ATF from time to time. Most of the agents I talked with were very helpful, and even close to being friendly. One time the ATF showed up one day for an audit, this time there was no since of humor, and don't even thing of offering any help. I don't do a lot of transfers where a FFL dealer would be required but it was something that I thought about, the disassemble of firearm.

Ar180shooter
October 26, 2013, 05:05 PM
Just because a firearm part has a serial number on it, that does not mean it is a firearm or that it is subject to the laws regarding possession and transfer of firearms.
You missed the part about the manufacturers info.

Many firearms have the serial no. stamped on all parts, but the part with the manufacturers info is always the firearm.

At least this is the case for split receiver designed guns. Many bolt actions will have the manufacturers info imprinted on the barrel, but the receiver is still the legal, serialized firearm.

Warp
October 26, 2013, 07:34 PM
You missed the part about the manufacturers info.

Many firearms have the serial no. stamped on all parts, but the part with the manufacturers info is always the firearm.

At least this is the case for split receiver designed guns. Many bolt actions will have the manufacturers info imprinted on the barrel, but the receiver is still the legal, serialized firearm.

I don't think I missed anything.

Just because a part has the serial number on it, that doesn't mean it is considered a firearm and subject to those laws.

Also, you just gave an example of "just because the manufacturers info is printed on it, that doesn't mean it is considered a firearm" (the bold)

Robert
October 26, 2013, 08:16 PM
Oh for the love of mike... I truly believe some of you guys would argue over what shade of blue the sky is..

Robert
October 26, 2013, 08:45 PM
Here are the legal requirements, dating back to the 1968 GCA, per the ATF.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/guides/i...-overview.html

Nobody said every part of a firearm with a serial number on it was a 'firearm'.

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