Percusssion SXS


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jgh4445
October 25, 2013, 10:40 PM
I have an opportunity to buy an unfired, 12 ga Navy Arms import. I believe its made by Fab Armi. Looks to have about 26 inch barrels. (may be 24 but certainly longer than a coach gun) Does anyone have any experience with this gun? Any guess at a fair price? Serial number is a 4 digit with an "N" prefix if that means anything.

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Snaggletooth
October 26, 2013, 01:09 PM
SXS are great. Navy arms imported a lot of the guns still shooting today. In my opinion the price will be between $300 to $400, I saw a gun on Gunbroker a couple if years ago advertised as New out of the box, Never fired. I punched the buy now and received it three days later. it was exactly as advertised, with one exception. It was a Kit gun. I made it a project gun and ended up with a real 12 ga. They shoot with any shotgun I own.

Col4570
October 26, 2013, 05:29 PM
I have been shooting a Navy Arms SxS Muzzleloader since 1975.It has never let me down,I converted it to Top Hat Musket Caps shortly after purchasing it.I will be using it next Sunday at our local Clay Shoot.One thing I noticed is the Locks Bridles are Aluminium,I was expecting some wear there but she still keeps going.I load with 23/4 Drams BP a Card a Wad another card 11/4 oz No 7 Shot and a Card.

AJumbo
October 26, 2013, 09:37 PM
They are excellent arms, pick it up and use it. Remember- if your first offer doesn't embarrass you, you offered too much.

swathdiver
October 27, 2013, 09:44 PM
Some of those Navy Arms imports were Pietta and Pedersoli too. If it's a Pedersoli, that's about as good as it gets for a production gun, they're great!

kbbailey
October 30, 2013, 07:59 AM
I bought a Navy Arms sxs 12ga to hunt turkeys with. I have had fun with this gun, even shot trap with it. It is well made and reliable.
I paid $350 for the gun, gun case, and wad punch.
...FWIW in punch 12ga wads out of the same duro-felt material that I use in my cap 'n ball revolvers.

elhombreconnonombre
October 30, 2013, 12:07 PM
This is an sxs 12 gauge made in the 1830s in Birmingham, England carried on the Texas frontier, and during the Mexican War, and Civil War.

ridgerunner1965
October 30, 2013, 07:45 PM
that last shotgun may have seen what you said but apparent from its condition it was not carried much.

Prairie Dawg
October 30, 2013, 08:13 PM
I had a Navy Arms 10 gauge made by Pietta.
Not as "pretty" as a Pedersoli, but it shot well.
Took a lot of squirrels and birds with that gun.
--Dawg

elhombreconnonombre
October 31, 2013, 12:05 AM
That old shottie was completely rebuilt/reconditioned/refinished maybe 85 years ago
Its owner passed away soon afterwards and it was passed down to susequent heirs. It spent all of its time since then broken down in a case stored in an old cedar chest. When it came, I to me I mounted the barrel and wiped it down
Looks good doesnt it?

elhombreconnonombre
October 31, 2013, 11:18 AM
In the shottie case was a letter from my ancestor who paid a gunsmith to restore it in 1934 for a Texas history exhibit for the Texas Centennial at Fair Park in Dallas.
It discussed the shotties hisfory and included several interestin items:
A 1847 New Orleans newspaper clipping describing the death
of Sam Walker, 5 1845 Mexican Reales, a newspaper clipping describing
the death of Ben McCollough at Elkhorn Tavern during the ACW, and
2 $1000 CSA unclipped war bonds. The letter said the gunsmith
found these in a compartment in the shoulder stock hidden by the buttplate. The Reales are missing from the envelope, but the newspaper clippings and war bonds are still intact. I have since put these in an acid free archival storage comtainer and put it in safety deposit.

gpb
October 31, 2013, 11:18 AM
I have never owned or shot a black powder firearm of any type. However, I do occasionally get the urge to buy a muzzle loading SXS black powder shotgun.

I have always heard that when shooting black powder there should not be any gap between the projectile and the powder charge. I have been told that this can lead to a burst barrel. If I am wrong in this please correct me.

Assuming that I am correct in this, how does one keep the shot charge tightly pressed against the powder charge in a double barrel shotgun? I would think that with the recoil of the first barrel that the second shot charge would have a tendency to move forward and leave a gap between it and the powder. Is this a potential problem that could lead to a burst barrel? How does one prevent this occurrence? I’m assuming that a very tight fitting over powder wads and over shot cards would be needed.

How much of a danger or problem is this when shooting a double barrel muzzle loading shotgun?

Any comments or advice will be appreciated.

elhombreconnonombre
October 31, 2013, 11:24 AM
In the shottie case was a letter from my ancestor who paid a gunsmith to restore it in 1934 for a Texas history exhibit for the Texas Centennial at Fair Park in Dallas.
It discussed the shotties hisfory and included several interestin items:
A 1847 New Orleans newspaper clipping describing the death
of Sam Walker, 5 1845 Mexican Reales, a newspaper clipping describing
the death of Ben McCollough at Elkhorn Tavern during the ACW, and
2 $1000 CSA unclipped war bonds. The letter said the gunsmith
found these in a compartment in the shoulder stock hidden by the buttplate. The Reales are missing from the envelope, but the newspaper clippings and war bonds are still intact. I have since put these in an acid free archival storage comtainer and put it in safety deposit.

Pete D.
November 2, 2013, 06:47 AM
About recoil upsetting the load in the unfired barrel.
Not to worry.....use properly sized wads and the load stays put, at least for a left right combo if it is needed.
If you were to do a lot of shooting from one barrel as opposed to the other, then it would be prudent to run the ramrod down the unfired barrel and reseat the charge if needed.
Pete

gpb
November 2, 2013, 11:08 AM
To: Pete D.
Thanks for the response concerning load shifting in a black powder muzzle loading double barrel shotgun. So basically, properly fitted wads and checking for shift when reloading after a single shot should prevent any problems.

I have watched this forum for discussions on muzzle loading shotguns, but seldom see any. It seems, to me at least, that double barrel muzzle loading shotguns are not that popular or widely used. This lack of popularity has caused me to wonder if there is a systemic problem with them, such as burst barrels due to improper loading or load shifting.

Col4570
November 2, 2013, 12:25 PM
Here in the Uk we do a lot of Shooting with black Powder doubles both Flint and Percussion.The Muzzleloaders Association Of Great Britain,(MLAGB) holds competitions through out the year.Black Powder Clay shooting is very popular here as is modern Clay Shooting.If anything shifts for the second shot it is in a rearward direction due to recoil of the first shot.

unspellable
November 2, 2013, 12:58 PM
Word of advice. When shooting a double wear a long sleeved shirt and a glove as the off hand lock is liable to spit on the tender underside of the wrist. Quite unpleasant if it spits on bare skin.

dickydalton
November 2, 2013, 03:18 PM
unspellable has that right. :)

Pete D.
November 2, 2013, 03:57 PM
I have watched this forum for discussions on muzzle loading shotguns, but seldom see any. It seems, to me at least, that double barrel muzzle loading shotguns are not that popular or widely used. This lack of popularity has caused me to wonder if there is a systemic problem with them, such as burst barrels due to improper loading or load shifting.
No problems that I have ever heard about. The Navy Arms SXS is a fine gun.

You don't hear much about MLing SGs because most folk (I base this on what I see here in the PA uplands) are happy with their 870/1100/etc. The only hunter that I have seen in years out with a Fowler or a MLing SXS is me. It is just a lot easier to load one in the chamber and two in the magazine than to deal with a BP shotgun. There is no advantage to a BP shotgun - used mostly for wingshooting - as there is using a MLing rifle and having early and late extended big game seasons
No criticism intended of those who hunt the "normal" way.
I use my Fowler more than the SXS because it weighs less and it is a flintlock and I prefer flint guns.
Pete

pohill
November 2, 2013, 04:47 PM
Good supply for wads, cards, info, etc.:
http://circlefly.com/

Good site for info:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?2605-The-Muzzleloading-Shotgun-by-V-M-Starr

I shoot trap with an original 10 ga British SXS muzzleloading shotgun. Most of the birds break...when they hit the ground. It's still a lot of fun.
I load...
Powder
nitro card (10 ga)
wad (10 ga)
shot
over-shot card (9 ga). This last card holds it all together.

gpb
November 2, 2013, 06:26 PM
Pete D. stated:
"There is no advantage to a BP shotgun - used mostly for wingshooting - as there is using a MLing rifle and having early and late extended big game seasons"

That statement offers an insight that I had not thought of. It certainly would explain why muzzle loading shotguns do not have the wide spread use that muzzle loading rifles do. Without the early or extended seasons afforded rifles, there is little driving force to encourage the use of muzzle loading shotguns.

Prairie Dawg
November 2, 2013, 08:04 PM
Gpb:
Here's a nice article by Bob Spencer ML shotgun basics -- A good read as is everything written by him
http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/shotgun.html
--Dawg

Col4570
November 3, 2013, 11:56 AM
Been Shooting my Navy Arms Double this Morning Sunday 3rd November,my Grandson shot his Pedersoli Double.both guns accounted for a pleasing amount of Clays.Most enjoyable 30 Bird shoot.2 1/2 Drams Black Powder,a Card a Wad a Card 1 1/4 oz No 7 Shot,an over shot Card.Just got back into BP shooting having been seduced by that modern stuff.

dickydalton
November 3, 2013, 03:28 PM
Thanks for the link, Prairie Dawg. It was an excellent read.

Col4570
November 8, 2013, 09:21 AM
http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s452/livebattery/Two%20Bullets/th_IMG_1723.jpg
The joys of BP clay Shooting.

Distorted picture but typical of BP Clayshooting here in the UK.

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