Re-Barreling


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andym79
November 3, 2013, 04:44 AM
Hi, I am thinking of getting an old Winchester 1892, as most of the affordable example have worn barrels, I got to thinking a new barrel might be the order, but which of the 4 original calibers would be the easiest/cheapest to get Re barreled?

The 25-20, 32-2-, 38-40 or the 44-40 (I would prefer on of the last two, but authenticity is more important, in terms of cartridge, I don't want to re-barrel to say a .357)

Thanks

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StrawHat
November 3, 2013, 06:38 AM
I believe the most popular cartridge for which the 1892 was chambered was the 44 WCF. If you can find a barrel for that, you should be good to go. Also consider getting a 38 WCF and having it rebored to 44 WCF. Dropping to the 32 and 25 will not help as the action needs work to go to the 40+ calibers. If all you can find is the 44 WCF with a toasted bore, it could be relined. In my opinion, all are good options for returning an 1892 to shooting condition. Good luck with the project.

You will soon hear from the folks who want you to think that rebarreling is a crime against humanity.

StrawHat
November 3, 2013, 06:40 AM
I just saw where you are located. I am not sure what gunsmithing services are readily available to you. I was speaking of what is easily available in the U.S.A.

Clark
November 3, 2013, 03:06 PM
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/Winchester92backtogetheragain3-4-2013.jpg
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/1892scopemountandbipodmountworkingb4-17-2013.jpg
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/RangeatIssaquah4-25-2013.jpg
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/2XLeupoldpistolscopemountedon1892Win25-20b4-13-2013.jpg
http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/25-204-25-2013cropped.jpg
I have bought 3 Win 92s this year and taken one apart.
All three were 25-20s.
I made a non invasive scope mount.
I wanted to run 40 kpsi, but due to an eroded bolt face / firing pin fit, I could not get over 26kpsi without CCI 550 small rifle magnum primers piercing.

That limited me to 2335 fps with 75 gr bullets.

I have uploaded pics of a good and a bad Win 92 bolt face.

I know someone who wants to convert from 25-20 to 256 Win Mag.

That is a different bolt face.

You can't find new bolts.

There would be a lot of machining to make one.

There would be some effort to open one up and get the bigger cartridges to feed.

rcmodel
November 3, 2013, 03:17 PM
As mentioned, re-lining would be the best thing to do in order to retain the original barrel markings.

http://redmansrifling.com/relining_prices.htm

On the other hand?
Don't write off a barrel because it looks like the inside of a coal burning smokestack.
Clean it very thoroughly and try it before you do anything else.

The old WCF calibers are all loaded with soft lead bullets, and if the last 1" or so of muzzle rifling isn't worn funnel shaped from cleaning rod wear?

Accuracy may surprise you no matter how bad the bore looks.

Even then, the muzzle can be counter-bored past the worn muzzle rifling and accuracy restored.

rc

Jim K
November 3, 2013, 09:25 PM
Changing a 92 from .32-20 or .25-20 to .38-40 or .44-40 would involve a whole lot of work, not just modification to the receiver but new parts. Possible, probably. Feasible, no way.

Lining a worn or rusted out barrel in low pressure calibers is reasonably inexpensive and quite easy.

Jim

Clark
November 3, 2013, 09:52 PM
Don't do 40 kpsi with a re line.

rcmodel
November 3, 2013, 11:09 PM
Mmmmm?

The WCF calibers are all under 16,000 CUP.

Not even close to 40,000 PSI.

rc

andym79
November 4, 2013, 04:51 AM
Changing a 92 from .32-20 or .25-20 to .38-40 or .44-40 would involve a whole lot of work, not just modification to the receiver but new parts. Possible, probably. Feasible, no way.

I don't want to change the calibre, I am looking to get a WIN92 and am making the assumption for the money I can afford it not going to be in excellent condition, therefore I am working toward the premise that re-barrel of barrel sleeve might be necessary! Ideally I would keep the original barre, so sleeve it?

I assume the larger calibre would be easier to sleeve?

Clark
November 7, 2013, 03:55 PM
November 3, 2013, 08:09 PM
rcmodel

Posts: 43,966
Mmmmm?

The WCF calibers are all under 16,000 CUP.

Not even close to 40,000 PSI.

rc

Reloader magazine did an article on the three levels of 32-20.

I think that the highest level is for Win92 and the second highest is for Colt double action revolvers after 1908.

I think Waters has written about this too.

SAAMI:
218 Bee 40,000 c.u.p.
25-20 28,000 c.u.p
32-20 16,000 c.u.p.

I think that the bolt thrust in a Rossi Puma Win 92 in 454 Casull 65,000 psi makes some of this conversation silly.

But the barrels re lined with a layer of epoxy are not worth a toot.

Jim K
November 7, 2013, 08:40 PM
FWIW, lining a barrel involves drilling it out full length, then inserting a liner which has the rifling in it and soldering or epoxying it in place, then running a reamer into the liner to set headspace just as with any other barrel change.

But you can't do it with a cartridge having a pressure over about 20k psi. The reason is that when the barrel is drilled out and the liner inserted, it can never fit perfectly partly because there has to be room for the solder or epoxy that will hole the liner in place. That means that the liner itself has to contain the full pressure of firing the cartridge; if it doesn't the pressure will expand and bulge it into any gaps or cavities between the liner and the original barrel. The result will be varying barrel dimensions with inaccuracy at best and a split lilner at worst.

Where the goal is to shoot a rifle but retain the original barrel markings, higher pressure barrels can be lined, but not with the conventional thin liners. What is done there is that the original barrel is drilled and reamed until there is nothing left but a shell. Then a regular barrel is turned down enough to fit, while retaining a more than adequate amount of barrel metal for safety with the cartridge to be used. But that is not what is generally meant by "lining" a barrel.

There are many cases where neither system can be used; a cartridge too powerful for a thin liner, and a barrel too small in diameter to accept an inside barrel that can take the pressure. Then, the only thing that can be done is to rebarrel the gun, sacrificing original markings, or just leave the barrel as is.

Jim

Jim Watson
November 7, 2013, 09:16 PM
Theory aside, I have a '92 that started out as a .38-40. It was rather roughly rebored to .44-40 and never shot well. I got it then. I could do no better with the rebore than the previous owner. I had it relined to .44 because the markings had been restruck and I already had .44 dies and components. It shoots about as well as I can hold the open sights.

The .38s and .44s are worth more and are more in proportion to their ammo.
But a.32-20 would be easier to find and buy.
It is not feasible to go from the small calibers to large.

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