i want to get into long range shooting.


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huntinfool87
November 3, 2013, 02:52 PM
I want to stick with standard hunting weight rifels. any ideas on a good rifles and caliber I would like to stay under $1000 on the rifle without the scope.

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plodder
November 3, 2013, 04:14 PM
How long range? (300 yds or 1,000+ yds??)
And for shooting what? (Paper, antelope, prairie dogs??)

Torian
November 3, 2013, 04:23 PM
Consider a Savage built 338 Lapua. A gentlmen had one of these at the range today...and after giving me a face full of muzzle blast (after I politely asked for warning so I could move), he felt bad and let me shoot her.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=373647833

huntinfool87
November 3, 2013, 05:26 PM
1000 and under more than likely. I can't find anyone around southern Nebraska that shoots long range.

taliv
November 3, 2013, 09:24 PM
did you have a particular type of competition in mind?

tomrkba
November 3, 2013, 09:57 PM
Savage 10FP in 308 Winchester with 3-9x scope worked just fine at 1000 yards. It's a good beginner setup. Try that while you learn the ropes. You will figure out what you want after awhile.

The real cost is the scope. It's going to cost as much as the gun. Going low cost does not help. It takes awhile for one to figure out what is needed and what you'll prefer.

huntinfool87
November 3, 2013, 10:20 PM
U don't know what kind of competition I really enjoy shooting long range. As far as a hunting aspect I'm not a fan of savage rifles or the 308 calaber. But like I said that's a hunting aspect. I was looking at a 270 in a Remington 700 with the heavy barrel any comments on that?

taliv
November 3, 2013, 10:43 PM
U don't know what kind of competition I really enjoy shooting long range.

I can't figure out what you're trying to say.

I'm trying to figure out if this thread belongs in the competition section, because it doesn't really sound like you are talking about competition.

huntinfool87
November 3, 2013, 11:06 PM
Sorry was suppose to say (I don't know what kind of competition ) I like shooting at 600 yards but I would like to try 1000 yards! I want to stick with basic hunting weight calibers bolt action rifles.

Jim Watson
November 4, 2013, 09:35 AM
Look up the Alliance Rifle Club. Not exactly in southern Nebraska, but it was the first thing I found on a search for Long Range.
Other ranges listed at http://rangelistings.com/state.php?state=NE

NRA has a sporting rifle category for matches, but it is not very popular, I saw one guy shooting a gun that qualified at F class in Georgia. A hunting rifle with the reach for 1000 yards is going to kick a good bit. I would not want to fire my 8 lb .30-06 all day, but my 16 lb .308 is not bad at all.

If you have some religious objection to the .308 Win, for which there is more choice in factory match ammunition and reloading data than any other caliber, I suggest the 7mm 08 or .260. The .270 is a good caliber for what a hunter would call "long range" but there is not a wide selection of high ballistic coefficient bullets that I want for Long Range. The 6.5mm, 7mm, and .30 cal are much better served with bullets and data for target shooting.
You ARE a proficient handloader, aren't you?

huntinfool87
November 4, 2013, 10:39 AM
Just getting into the hanloading so no I would not say proficient. I don't have a problem with the 308 as far as target shooting just from a hunting standpoint I'm not a fan. The longest range I can find around me is 600 yards so I'm not sure what you call long range but I see 1000 yards being my max.

tomrkba
November 4, 2013, 01:00 PM
Please start thinking and stop focusing upon premature optimization. You do not even know how to do 1,000 yard shooting yet.

The point I was making is that a $500 gun with reasonably good optic will get you hits on an 18" target. Many guns will do 3/4 to 1 MOA out of the box with Federal Gold Medal Match. My friend uses a Winchester Model 70 in 30-06 and has good results at 1,000 yards. We both use Pride Fowler RR800-1 scopes.

Start with any hunting rifle in you have in 308 or higher and a $400 scope that can do 1 MOA at 100 yards. Get some training and experience before buying more.

huntinfool87
November 4, 2013, 02:18 PM
I have a 257 weatherby that I can shoot 3/4 moa at 600 yards and a 270 that will soot just over moa at 600 yards. But I'm wanting to go to the next step. With a gun made for that.

Jim Watson
November 4, 2013, 03:04 PM
That is very good performance.
The "next step" for less than $1000 is going to be tough.

If you wore out your .270 barrel learning the game and had it replaced (I would pick a 6.5 or 7mm or .30 cal with more bullets available) with blueprinting the action and glass bedding the stock, you would have about what you describe.

huntinfool87
November 4, 2013, 03:40 PM
I am looking at a 7mm. I just don't know that much about the I have a 280 and I know as far as reloading goes there is a ton of options out there for the 7mm. Thank you Jim for the information.

Jim Watson
November 4, 2013, 04:02 PM
Clarification: There are a LOT of different 7mm cartridges. The .280 Rem is quite good. The 7mm 08 should work. There are getting to be a number of .284 Win rifles on the range. There are getting to be some 7mm WSMs but that would be a full custom proposition and not a budget build.

dubbleA
November 4, 2013, 05:26 PM
I have a 257 weatherby that I can shoot 3/4 moa at 600 yards and a 270 that will soot just over moa at 600 yards. But I'm wanting to go to the next step. With a gun made for that.


With that you should be able to compete at local F Class matches and be very competitive. With those cartridges(257WM and 270 Win) you will have to be in Open class. Of course the occasional 3 shot 3/4 moa group will not do, you'll have to do it with 10 and 20 shot strings consistently.

The 308 Win is a great choice, maybe a Savage 12 F/TR it would be nice entry level rifle.

huntinfool87
November 4, 2013, 10:52 PM
Thank you Jim and double a. I will keep looking I don't want to rush into this and get something I'm not happy with. I'm looking at a night force scope its about $900 but one thing I have learned from all you guys is that you can't go cheep with optics.

KingMedicine
November 5, 2013, 09:57 PM
I just bought my first long range rifle and was looking at the same thing. Almost got the Savage 111 in 338 lapua, but didn't want to deal with the cost of ammo and recoil. Ended up with a Savage 12 Lrp in 6.5 Creedmoor.

huntinfool87
November 6, 2013, 02:53 PM
How hard is it to get ammo for that?

nastynatesfish
November 6, 2013, 04:43 PM
If look into 260. It's a great range round and easy to load for. Sent you a pm

thegiff
November 6, 2013, 05:52 PM
If you mean the tactical style of match, then 6.5 and 6mm calibers dominate the field. Low recoil helps, good ballistics, especially wind drift helps a lot. Also, lots of good bullets and cases available in these sizes. The person with the fastest number of accurate shots wins these, which leads to a tendency for the 6 and 6.5mm .308 based case size for the reasons I just mentioned, and also helps because the rifle can be built on a short action so you don't have to move your head out of the way of the bolt when cycling (back to speed here...).

Our local comps and a lot of bigger comps don't allow 338 lapua because it damages steel targets too much, even the AR500 stuff. Something else to think about with caliber selection besides recoil, muzzle blast, barrel life and overall cost to own/run.

Saleen322
November 8, 2013, 10:57 AM
There is a reason why .308s are recommended so much, they work. Here is one of my .308s, a Savage, that I have shot at 1000 yards with the US made 10X Burris shown here.

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/Center%20Fire%20Rifles/110_zps45d345bf.jpg

If you want something more, here is a 40X factory chambered in 30-338. These rifles won both the Wimbledon and Leech cup 1000 yard matches at Camp Perry.

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/Center%20Fire%20Rifles/30-338-1_zps45986873.jpg

I also have another 40X in 7mm WSM that is a real shooter. That caliber at one time had the 1000 yard BR record in Great Britain. Anyone of these calibers will work at distance. Good luck.

Bart B.
November 13, 2013, 01:58 PM
While the big 30 caliber magnums were once the norm in long range winners circles for shoulder fired rifles used in the prone position, they've been out-scored by 26 and 28 caliber smaller cartridges. The big 30's recoil too much while the bullets go through the barrel making them harder to shoot accurately when hand held. But they're still very good in long range benchrest matches where the rifle's fired in return-to-battery rests free recoiling virtually untouched by the human firing it.

Nowadays, I'd go with the 6.5x.284 as the best compromise between accuracy and shootability. And the 7mm SAUM's a close second. They can be used in NRA matches when "any" rifle's allowed. Other long range matches, such as the Palma where the .308 Win's the international standard, are restricted to specific cartridges.

huntinfool87
November 13, 2013, 09:05 PM
I'm kinda gaining interest in the 260 rem or the 6.5 creed more. I would live to hear opinions on these 2 calibers.

taliv
November 13, 2013, 09:21 PM
either would be an excellent choice. if you plan to buy ammo, 6.5 cm is probably the way to go. if you handload, it's pretty close to a wash. the 6.5cm has a 30* shoulder which is generally preferable to the 20* shoulder (found on all the 308win based cartridges like 243win, 260rem, etc). The 260rem has a much better selection of brass though.

Hoser
November 19, 2013, 11:10 AM
The 260 and 243 are great choices for long range.

scottishkat
November 27, 2013, 07:28 PM
The 6.5 Creedmore and 260 Rem are both great from 26 inch barrels the 6.5x284 is it right now.

dprice3844444
November 27, 2013, 10:47 PM
http://www.snipercentral.com/milspec5r.phtml
http://www.snipercountry.com/inreviews/rem_m700_stainlessspecial5rmilspec.asp
http://www.snipercountrypx.com/p-5707-remington-700-ss-5r-milspec-20-wthreaded-muzzle-308.aspx
http://www.snipercountrypx.com/p-2576-scpx-700ss-5r-milspec-deployment-package-308.aspx

redneck2
November 28, 2013, 11:10 AM
....

chucknbach
December 7, 2013, 12:35 AM
Just get a scope with clickers on it and mount it up to what you already have and have fun.

pigger
January 1, 2014, 11:00 PM
You can't go wrong with the 6.5 Creedmoor, I have shot my share of different calibers but this one is very hard to beat, it shoots very well way out there. For me it will out shoot the 308 all day long, but I don't like a 308. I have had one in a Ruger M77, Ruger #1 which shot dang good, I now own a DPMS 6.5 Creedmoor
that I use to hunt hogs here in Texas. It will do the job that you are wanting without all the recoil!!

www.jimmyscreekguideservice.com

OldRook77
January 5, 2014, 09:55 PM
i can share a little real world experience with you. I too wanted to build a 1000 yard sporter.. spent a whole bunch of money and put a lot of time into it and am not happy with the results i obtained. have a great hunting rifle that is great to about 600 yards after that it gets real suspect. Now a good portion of that is the shooter (me), but a 1000 yards is a long way and a sporter is marginal. I bought a 700 custom shop gun in 300 win mag, get this in a light mountain contour - i truly had no clue. Again a great 600 yard gun, but real squirelly after that. If it were me and my money i'd buy a savage F class in 6.5 x 284 and a decent piece of glass and be shooting long range tomorrow. FWIW

savanahsdad
January 5, 2014, 10:46 PM
for around $900 on a glass take a look at a Shepherd 618-V1A don't hear much about them , don't know why , it is the best scope I have ever looked through , have one mounted on AR 15 in 25WSSM shoots great out to 800 yards , have not tried 1000 yards yet ,

docsleepy
January 5, 2014, 11:00 PM
OK, maybe I am just stupid, but I don't get the advice on scopes.
I have a desire to SEE what I am shooting at. When I shoot at 100 yards, I want to be able to SEE movement of the rifle that is only 1/4" or less. So I use a 32 power on my benchrest rifle. Most of the guys I shot with when I had the chance, were using 36X.

I have only shot at 800 yards three times. Each time I hit the target fairly easily with a $69 16X Centerpoint scope. For me, the key was caliber and barrel: 7mm08 to get velocity, which allows me to avoid so much drop (which changes dramatically with temperature). Unfortunately, I had only spire point flat base (chosen for deer hunting at shorter distances) - would have been a higher B.C. with boat tails, match style bullets but I made do with what I had.

The barrel is a bull Shilen that I put on a Savage receiver. Handloaded.

Maybe I just have poor eyesight, but with a 9X I don't think I would recognize movement of the barrel (which is bad) nearly as easily as I can with a 16X. WEre I shooting often at 800, I would probably go for a higher power scope.

(The 16X is available at Walmart. That's why I bought it. I have three of these and I have never had the zero wander.)

So y'all set me straight here.

savanahsdad
January 5, 2014, 11:23 PM
I was replying to the op's post 18 , and that scope is a 6-18X40

docsleepy
January 6, 2014, 07:02 AM
6x18 makes good sense.
I am not a scope guru, so don't know about the price

But again, my inexpensive Centerpoint has never seemed to lose zero. Have it on bunch of rifles, 7mm08, 308s, 223.

I put most of my $$ in the barrel. Then in reloading equipment. Getting a bullet comparator and case comparator tools (Hornady) for my calipers helped a lot.

If you want 1st shot to hit right, get an app for bullet ballistics for your smart phone, carry a thermometer and know the barometer. And buy a chronometer.


What has made much more difference to me is learning (somewhat!) how to control neck tension in multiply reloaded cases.

huntinfool87
January 6, 2014, 08:13 AM
Ok first off thank you everyone for the advice! I already have a scope its a u.s. optics tpal with the erect knob. My deer hunting rifle is a 257 wby. So I already have to order ammo and the place I get it from carries both 260 and 6.5 target grade ammo I spent a little over $1000 on the scope and looks like the custom build on the rifle is going to be around $2000 for either caliber I'm leaning twords the 260 because I'm going to eventually start reloading my own ammo.

docsleepy
January 6, 2014, 09:59 AM
Well I can see that I am a bit outclassed by the amount of money that you spend.

That's your perfect right, but I sure would drop $500 immediately on reloading equipment. I'm partial to lee neck collet dies, Wilson Seaters, RCBS charge master. But if you can find some Benchrest shooters who will show you the ropes on precision reloading, you can save a boatload of money over buying target ammo.

Pick your bullet early on, decide a seating from a loading table, and then have a barrel Made so you are just a few thousands off the lands, then you can adjust either way as you see fit. I made the mistake of having a barrel made without specifying exactly how I wanted, and I got a long throat suitable for a much heavier bullet that what I prefer. Since I use that barrel primarily for hunting, no big deal.

docsleepy
January 6, 2014, 10:02 AM
If you're going to have that rifle custom-made, discuss bullet seating depth with the maker, before you have it made.

For my money, I preferred to do things myself, so I gain the knowledge of their trade, rather than giving them the money, and take the knowledge. You can take a good savage action, or even a high end custom action, and mate a barrel into it, with a nut, and have something you can learn a great deal from. Gaining knowledge, is worth a great deal of money to me.

huntinfool87
January 6, 2014, 10:35 AM
I do not like savage and I will never own another one! And I do not have the tools to build my own. I lookedinto that option but the tools would cost more than the gun.

docsleepy
January 6, 2014, 02:11 PM
Well then, a good custom gun would be the best.

huntinfool87
January 6, 2014, 02:21 PM
Yes I was looking at snipercentral.com the Remington 700 build and although that isn't the cheapest rout I could take I think that's going to be my best option for what I want.

huntinfool87
January 6, 2014, 02:26 PM
Docsleepy. How do I go about choosing a seating depth? I know I want 1:8 twist for that caliber. But as far as seating depth goes I really have no clue on how to decide.

hatwerinrednek
January 6, 2014, 05:49 PM
ruger 6.5 creedmoor. hawkeye varmint/target or the hawkeye predator . they have an adj two stage trigger and also come in other callibers . i have a 223 in the varmint/target model and i was concerned about the weight but isnt that bad when you consider all the other crap you carry when you go hunting. and the two stage trigger is great. diddnt think i would like one but youll be amazed how fast you will get used to it.

docsleepy
January 6, 2014, 07:30 PM
As the number of shots through a barrel go up, the throat gets eroded

However, loaded right "at the lands" or even a few thousands "into" the lands, some guns produce tighter groups. The problem is, it may be very very sensitive, and a few thousandths error can be crucial.

Because of this, many people intentionally load .020" off the lands, where the group may not be as tight, but the sensitivity to seating depth may be much lower.

If you really want accuracy, I think you are going to have to develop some skills at reloading, and I don't mean novice reloading. That's why I would find a benchrest shooter and ask him to coach you.

You will need several tools, none of which are really expensive. Hornady makes a tool to find the depth of the lands. They also sell devices that go on calipers and allow you to find the spot at which your seating will contact the rifling lands. All this stuff might benefit you more than thousands spent on a gun.

There is a fellow -- I think it is Northwood Shoothing Supplies or something similar -- who sells "RemAge" barrel system that allows you to use a barrel nut to mount a barrel on a Remington 700 receiver, and set the headspace without needing a lathe or machinist or gunsmith. I prefer to do my own gunsmithing (I'm cheap). I learn more that way.

My hunting rifles I load differently than my benchrest rifle.

There is more to this, than I think I will be able to learn in one life.

Wish you the best of luck!

taliv
January 6, 2014, 07:36 PM
u.s. optics tpal with the erect knob

you got a USO TPAL with EREK knob for $1000??

huntinfool87
January 6, 2014, 08:08 PM
I have several guns with the 2 stage trigger I love them. But varmint rifles tend to have to much twist and don't stabilize the heavy rounds at longer ranges. I have been told to stay away from varmint guns for thatreason by a few long range shooters.

huntinfool87
January 6, 2014, 08:12 PM
Just over $1000 yes its a custom built scope so depending on the options you choose will determine the price.

huntinfool87
January 6, 2014, 08:15 PM
Docsleepy. I have started reloading but I'm very green at it! That's why I was going to stick with factory loaded ammo until I get more comfortable with the system.

As far as finding a long range shooter to learn from they are far and few between around here.

Thank you again for all your knoladge.

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