12 Gauge 2 3/4" Ammunition for Defense/ Hunting


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blarby
November 3, 2013, 08:18 PM
So, I'd just like to know what you use, or what you would use.

Like the poll says...

If you have something in the "other" category, lets hear it !


My "other" is a #1.5 buck load- it patterns better, and has much less chance of successfully engaging a secondary unintended target through a household barrier.

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Old Shooter
November 3, 2013, 08:24 PM
00 Buck for HD.

No problems with neighbors and over penetration so just go heavy and let it rip!

sappyg
November 3, 2013, 08:46 PM
For hunting I've used:

8 shot for quail
6 for rabbit/ duck
4/6 duplex for turkey

For HD I use #1 ATM but its pretty old stuff and I am replacing it with 0 buck ,because its availabe, as I go through the #1.

rcmodel
November 3, 2013, 08:52 PM
I would use buckshot from 00 on down a couple of sizes for SD.

I would not use buckshot of any size for any kind of hunting, unless required to by law in public hunting areas or something for deer & hogs.

SD range and hunting range are two very different things.

Buckshot is worthless for hunting small game or flying game birds because the pattern is to sketchy to hit them with more then a pellet or two, if you are lucky.

Birdshot suitable for most small game & bird hunting is not suitable for SD because the pellets are too small to give adequate penetration on a BG target.

rc

Fred Fuller
November 3, 2013, 09:18 PM
For defensive use, 00 in the magazine and Brenneke KO slugs in the Sidesaddle ...

Tony_the_tiger
November 3, 2013, 09:55 PM
Brenneke Classic Magnum Slugs.

490 Grains @ 1500 ft/s

huntsman
November 3, 2013, 09:59 PM
I hunt deer with slugs because buckshot is illegal but #4 buck for HD, this poll is too vague.

Texan Scott
November 3, 2013, 10:07 PM
If I had to use one 12ga shell for both? #4 Buck.

I couldn't hunt deer or hogs, but it would take smaller game (messily) while still being large enough for SD use.

Ideally, though, 00 or 000 for SD and rimfire/ centerfire rifle as appropriate for fur-bearing edibles ... I mean, mammals. ;)

M2 Carbine
November 3, 2013, 11:07 PM
I don't hunt.

For HD I use a Kel Tec KSG loaded with Federal 00 FliteControl buckshot.

With a full choke it gives a 13.5 inch spread at 35 yards.

Inebriated
November 3, 2013, 11:24 PM
Federal XM127 00 Buck for home defense, Brenneke slugs for any other defense and hunting.

M2, have you tried it through a CYL or IC choke? I believe I recall reading that Federal designed it to work best in IC chokes.

blarby
November 4, 2013, 09:09 AM
I hunt deer with slugs because buckshot is illegal but #4 buck for HD, this poll is too vague.

Sorry bout that- you can only do so much with the polls. If I included every possibility- it would be a long poll. Maybe when we get the overhaul we can do "if/then" polls- but I wouldn't hold my breath !

Thanks for your input- always cool to see someone else "smallballin" for HD !

huntsman
November 4, 2013, 11:01 AM
^ Ok I just assumed by hunting you meant big game because that and varmint are about all I can think of that I'd use buck or slug.

I'm not sure why my state chooses to ban buckshot but some of the area I hunt is thick and shots are close and quick so I believe buck would be a better fit but because of the law I switch to a handgun for that type of deer hunting.

Slugs for hunting are Brenneke classic mags, Sluggers for HD and plinking, I roll my own buck.

Rule3
November 4, 2013, 11:31 AM
I can not answer this as it is a Public Poll and the NSA is watching.;)

Different loads for hunting and defense

gamestalker
November 4, 2013, 03:49 PM
I couldn't really use your poll. I run different loads for self defense than I do for hunting, mainly because we don't use slugs or 00 for big game out here. So for wing shooting it's either 2-3/4" hulls with #6 or #7-1/2, for dove and quail. For turkey it's usually a 3" hull and either #4 buck or BB at full magnum velocities, but I have been known to use 2-3/4" at times.

For self defense I stagger 2-3/4" and, or 3" hulls, some 00 buck, #4 buck, and a slug or two. All of course are at magnum pressures / velocities that vary accordingly.

So you can see I was unable to vote in your poll, being that my choices don't really fit the poll options accurately.

GS

LeonCarr
November 4, 2013, 03:49 PM
For Defense: Federal Flitecontrol LE132 00 and Federal Low Recoil Truball Slugs

For Hunting Deer and Hogs: Remington 3 Inch Magnum 000 in conjunction with a Remington Factory Extra Full Extended Choke and/or Brenneke Classic Magnums depending on the location and range of possible shots.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

P5 Guy
November 4, 2013, 05:01 PM
#4 buckshot and slugs for SD/HD
When I shot at birds and water fowl the loads depend on the game.
4 shot thru 8 shot.

wnycollector
November 4, 2013, 07:03 PM
Federal Flitecontrol LE132 00 in the gun and Fiocchi Low Recoil slugs in the side saddle here for HD.

Hunterdad
November 4, 2013, 08:52 PM
HD-Federal 2.75" 00 Buck
Waterfowl 2's or 4's in 3"
Upland and small game-6's in 2.75"
Big Game-Federal Fusion 300gr 2.75" sabot

303tom
November 4, 2013, 09:04 PM
Yeah I have my M12 Riot loaded to the hilt with 2 & 3/4 in. max load BB`s................

748
November 4, 2013, 10:53 PM
I picked 00, but at 10 to 15 feet it doesn't really matter. At that range #9 is as deadly as a 00.

Tony_the_tiger
November 4, 2013, 11:23 PM
I picked 00, but at 10 to 15 feet it doesn't really matter. At that range #9 is as deadly as a 00.

I disagree. Numerous testing has shown that many commercially available birdshot rounds do not penetrate well enough to be considered adequate for defensive uses in my opinion.

ugaarguy
November 4, 2013, 11:27 PM
I suppose one could use the same load for hunting and defense depending on your quarry and the max shot range where one is hunting said quarry. I assume the poll is to spark discussion on a single all purpose HD / big game load? OP, if I'm wrong please clarify for me.

I picked 00, but at 10 to 15 feet it doesn't really matter. At that range #9 is as deadly as a 00.
Do you have a source for that assertion? I've yet to see a single ballistic test that supports such a claim.

blarby
November 4, 2013, 11:39 PM
I picked 00, but at 10 to 15 feet it doesn't really matter. At that range #9 is as deadly as a 00.

I'd be more afraid of the wad at 10'- but hey, thats me !

For those of you using the Federal with FC wad in 00 buck for HD- I'm curious as to your choice : Not that its wrong, I was just under the impression that the FC wad was more beneficial for long range use.... am I missing something ?

thedriver101
November 5, 2013, 12:54 AM
I've got some Winchester 12ga 00 buck, SB1200. 9 pellets copper plated. Unfortunately, it does not pattern very well out of my gun (20" bbl cylinder bore) at even 15yd. Helluva kick though, and it comes trucking at 1450 fps - a good 200+ over most other 00 buck shells on the market. Note that that's the claimed velocity, I have not tested it through a trap yet.

stressed
November 5, 2013, 01:42 AM
I picked 00, but at 10 to 15 feet it doesn't really matter. At that range #9 is as deadly as a 00.
Not really. Might look cool on paper, or might blow a hole through drywall, but it's not going any further. You would get 1"-3" penetration with such a load.

Fred Fuller
November 5, 2013, 08:36 AM
For those of you using the Federal with FC wad in 00 buck for HD- I'm curious as to your choice : Not that its wrong, I was just under the impression that the FC wad was more beneficial for long range use.... am I missing something ?

Shotguns are the go-to long guns here. We live in a rural area on several acres, it's 51 yards from the front door to the gate across the driveway, and another 100 yards out to the road from the gate. So potentially, longer range than across the room IS a consideration.

And at 30 feet, it doesn't much matter what buckshot load/choke you use...

303tom
November 5, 2013, 10:17 AM
Looks to me like you would be in a world of hurt even at 60 feet let alone 15 !...............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zhW9E3PDUk

ugaarguy
November 5, 2013, 01:43 PM
Looks to me like you would be in a world of hurt even at 60 feet let alone 15 !...............
Hurt, and effectively stopping a threat are two entirely different things. The first three inches of ballistic gel are equivalent to the elasticity of human skin. That's why the FBI minimum standard is twelve inches penetration in calibrated ballistic gel. Even at close range bird shot makes nasty looking wounds, but they're only superficial surface wounds. Bird shot is for birds.

stressed
November 5, 2013, 01:48 PM
303tom, that's 8 not 9. Also, try shooting a mammal with said combo. Won't work too well.

Pyro
November 5, 2013, 03:44 PM
Low-recoil slugs for HD.
3 inch 00B for hiking.
Whatever is appropriate for the hunt.

Bobson
November 5, 2013, 04:44 PM
Defense and hunting are two very different purposes. I'd use slugs for hunting, but I voted 00 Buck for defense.

351 WINCHESTER
November 5, 2013, 05:56 PM
I don't hunt with buckshot anymore. For hd any buckshot down to no. 4 will work if the distance isn't too far.

C0untZer0
November 5, 2013, 06:28 PM
For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates number 1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.

Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances.

A standard 2 ¾-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma. In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

Fred Fuller
November 5, 2013, 06:42 PM
The Firearms Tactical Institute report recommends #1 Buck

Yeah, so did the instructor in the first hunter safety class I ever had, back in the 1970s. Problem is, I have yet to find a barrel that will pattern #1 worth a darn, even in 40 years of looking. I have heard there are barrels that do well with #1 - I just haven't found one.

And I will take patterns over pellet count any day...

USAF_Vet
November 5, 2013, 07:24 PM
The beauty of the shotgun is to not be limited on ammo.
I stock slugs, 00 buck, #2 buck, #4 buck, #6 steel shot, 7 1/2 shot and #8 shot.

And that's just in 12 gauge 2 3/4" shells.

C0untZer0
November 5, 2013, 08:06 PM
I have yet to find a barrel that will pattern #1 worth a darn

Federal's FLITECONTROL® wad should keep the pattern relatively tight but you're losing one pellet, so the total combined cross sectional area and wounding is different for that loading.

But here is a denim gel test of it from plouffedaddy :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNb2uvezzx0

303tom
November 5, 2013, 08:49 PM
Hurt, and effectively stopping a threat are two entirely different things. The first three inches of ballistic gel are equivalent to the elasticity of human skin. That's why the FBI minimum standard is twelve inches penetration in calibrated ballistic gel. Even at close range bird shot makes nasty looking wounds, but they're only superficial surface wounds. Bird shot is for birds.
Do you have a clear 60 foot shot inside your house ?..............

ugaarguy
November 5, 2013, 09:11 PM
Do you have a clear 60 foot shot inside your house ?..............
That's completely irrelevant, because even at 10 feet small bird shot like you're recommending won't even penetrate seven inches. Any load capable of stopping an attacker is going to penetrate multiple layers of drywall.

bushmaster1313
November 5, 2013, 09:29 PM
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/images/ssi-2012/SS34353.jpg

MR.G
November 5, 2013, 09:34 PM
00 buck for hd.

ugaarguy
November 5, 2013, 10:43 PM
I saw the link the first time. Post a summary please. If you're trying to correlate drywall penetration to penetrate in ballistic gel, there is no correlation. What exactly are you trying to prove?

Mike1234567
November 5, 2013, 11:16 PM
I have 2-3/4 #4 buckshot in my HD shotgun because most of the tests I've seen indicate it's "just enough". I've been tempted to load bird shot as the first round to minimize the possibility of over-penetration through walls and it's likely to stop the average intruder from advancing plus they'll surely seek medical attention and get caught. However, I'm concerned I may not get a second shot if needed. I might stay with #4 for the first round or two and change to #1 or #0 though. I really wish folks would stop making me think... it hurts too much.

C0untZer0
November 5, 2013, 11:56 PM
I might stay with #4 for the first round or two and change to #1 or #0 though

Wouldn't you want to use #1 or #0 first since they are more effective at stopping an advance than #4 ?

If I could, I'd use a 10ga loaded with #1 Buck to increase my chances of stopping a threat immediately. I certainly would feel better with that setup if faced with an attacker.

Seems to be an error in logic ramping up from smaller shot to larger shot

Mike1234567
November 6, 2013, 12:05 AM
Wouldn't you want to use #1 or #0 first since they are more effective at stopping an advance than #4 ?

If I could, I'd use a 10ga loaded with #1 Buck to increase my chances of stopping a threat immediately. I certainly would feel better with that setup if faced with an attacker.

Seems to be an error in logic ramping up from smaller shot to larger shot
As I alluded to in my previous post, I do have some concern about over-penetration. I'm in a semi-rural environment with neighbors just a few hundred feet away in many directions. Most of them have young children. I don't know if I could live with myself if I accidentally seriously injured one of them with stray projectiles while saving my own neck. Don't misunderstand... I will defend myself. I just want to minimize the possibility of harming innocent bystanders.

RE #4 buckshot: Most tests I've seen show this to be "enough" most of the time.

EDIT: I should add that my answer/vote (#4 buck) is based on defense (home defense) only. Partly because I don't hunt and partly because that part of the question was too ambiguous to answer.

gp911
November 6, 2013, 12:10 AM
I would normally say 00 buck like the majority. I voted 000 buck simply because that is what I have on hand right now and after testing it I found it acceptable for my use. The patterns out of my coach gun are pretty good and the effects on targets are devastating. I'm sure there are better grouping loads but this is what I have and I am satisfied with it. 8 .36 caliber balls hitting at once is pretty impressive. For hunting I would choose specific loads for specific prey though. Slugs for deer, 7/8oz loads for doves, etc.

Arizona_Mike
November 6, 2013, 12:25 AM
I answered this unclear and somewhat silly "defense/hunting (game type/weight and range unspecified)" as if it for just "defense".

My favorite defense load is a hot 15-pellet plated 00 load in a 3". I usually use winchester Double-X Magnum.

Now what are you hunting? Deer? Rabbit? Coyote? Birds?

Mike

Tony_the_tiger
November 6, 2013, 12:48 AM
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/02/robert-farago/shotgun-penetration-with-various-rounds/

#8 Birdshot - 4.5"

#5 Birdshot - 8"

#4 Birdshot - 6.5"

#2 Birdshot - 9"

#1 Birdshot - 9.5"

Lead BB - 12.5"

#4 Buck - 14.5"

#4 Buck Magnum - 15.5"

#1 Buck - 16.5"

Foster Slug - 27"

Brenneke Slug - 26"

Note:

The nose design of these slugs is such that very controlled expansion occurs with the slug retaining 97% of it’s original mass. The slight expansion and geometry of the expanded head are such that as the slug travels through target media it cuts a larger diameter wound tract. As compared to most regular foster styled slugs cast/swagged from soft lead, the brennekes are manufactured from a harder alloy that largely accounts for the slug holding together better at the higher velocities.

When pushed in the neighborhood of 1600 fps, the softer lead slugs tend to deform significantly; losing their penetrating potential as the slug either expands so much as to present huge cross sectional area or breaks up into smaller, less efficient fragments. As the brennekes hold together better, they are a more appropriate slug when deep penetration in dangerous game is required.

748
November 6, 2013, 12:57 AM
Slugs really over penetrate. Years ago I shot up an old house/hunting cabin that was going to be burned by the fire department.
It was built to code and the slugs went in one side and out the other unless they hit a ceramic bathroom fixture.
They even went straight through the hot water heater, which was empty.

Years ago my dad shot a wild dog after he got back from bird hunting. A boring low brass shot shell packed with 7-1/2 or 8 put a hole in the dogs chest from 10 to 15 feet away. Killing the dog as effectively as buck shot. Had it been #9 instead 7-1/2 or 8 I don't think the dog would have noticed the difference.

Tony_the_tiger
November 6, 2013, 12:59 AM
We've never had a home break in, but last time we checked out a loud noise on the porch, there was a 300 lb black bear. It ran off and I don't intend to do bears any harm, but if I have to use the shotgun its because I need a slug. Slugs tend to be more precise for me on the range as well. No spread and I know with the Brennekes that the wad will be attached to the slug. That said I am fond of the plain old Remington 00 buckshot as well. I like the wax seals on the crimp.

blindhari
November 6, 2013, 08:42 AM
I know of no one who really enjoys being a juror. That said years ago I was a juror on a murder 1 trial where I lived. Victim was hit twice with a load of #8 shot from a 12 guage pump. Both wounds appeared to be lethal in autopsy photos. Saying bird shot is not lethal because of limited penetration in gel is in my limited experience not real life.

blindhari

Scrumbag
November 6, 2013, 10:03 AM
No. 1 buck for me, also known as SSG (used by quite a few PHs for dealing with wounded large cats in Africa)

Tony_the_tiger
November 6, 2013, 10:38 AM
Saying bird shot is not lethal because of limited penetration in gel is in my limited experience not real life.

Of course birdshot can be lethal. It can also be non-lethal. We have anecdotes to support both scenarios. Throw a barrier and/or multiple layers of clothes into the mix and the birdshot loses some of its capacity to be lethal. The gelatin gives us a basis for comparison upon which we may make assumptions about performance, but as you note it does not ultimately simulate real life shooting scenarios. I'm not aware of any mortality statistics on shotgun use. As a standard, many folks use the FBI's minimum penetration guideline of 12" in ballistic gelatin. Birdshot falls well below the minimum standard and would be entirely inappropriate for hunting larger mammals and questionable for self defense. That said, I respect your experience and the tragedy of the victim in that case.

blarby
November 6, 2013, 11:04 AM
For those of you using the Federal with FC wad in 00 buck for HD- I'm curious as to your choice : Not that its wrong, I was just under the impression that the FC wad was more beneficial for long range use.... am I missing something ?

Shotguns are the go-to long guns here. We live in a rural area on several acres, it's 51 yards from the front door to the gate across the driveway, and another 100 yards out to the road from the gate. So potentially, longer range than across the room IS a consideration.


Thanks fred- that is a situation I could appreciate having good patterns at distance on.

Just out of curiosity, what are your patterns looking like at 50 yards ?

Fred Fuller
November 6, 2013, 12:34 PM
The big issue with buckshot at extended ranges gets to be penetration, not patterns. In other words, with buckshot it's possible to run out of penetration before you run out of useful pattern, at a distance. That's another reason for 00 or 000 - more pellet weight, in the larger pellets, is likely to yield more penetration. Recent penetration tests in ballistic gelatin have helped confirm that 00 has useful amounts of penetration left at 40 - 50 yards.

Patterns will of course vary from barrel to barrel. I prefer tight patterning barrels on the off chance I ever need to make a longer than normal shot under circumstances that do not allow for a 'select slug' drill to be performed. Admittedly this is unlikely, but the ability to shoot what's in the chamber under a wider variety of circumstances is what started me out looking to eliminate the shotgun 'B zone' many years ago.

The classic shotgun 'zone system' is well described here:

The Zone System - While the use of sights will enable a target to be hit, a method is needed to help determine the optimum engagement distances for the ammunition used. The zone system sets up bands of weapon performance versus ammunition selection. The first or "A" zone extends from the muzzle to about seven to 10 yards, where the pattern has typically expanded to between four and seven inches. Within this range the shot charge is effectively a single projectile and it is quite easy to miss a human sized target unless sights are used.

The "B" zone extends from the end of the "A" zone to that range where charge of buckshot has spread to about the width of the human torso (about twenty inches). This occurs at a range of between twenty to thirty-five yards for most weapons. Since the shot charge is spreading out the pattern must be centered to effectively turn off an assailant. While hits can be obtained without proper sights, it is just as fast and much more positive to do it with sights. At the course that I attended the maximum range for the "B" zone for a given ammunition was determined by the range at which the shotgun would consistently knock down a 10 inch diameter steel lollipop target with the buckshot used. (One student's shotgun would consistently drop the target at 35 yards and about 50% of the time at 40 yards! That's patterning!)

Past end of the "B" zone, at thirty-five yards or so depending on the individual weapon, even with modern buffered loads and hardened buckshot the shot charge usually spreads so much that the majority of pellets may not strike the target that is aimed at. This area is called the "C" zone and this is where the rifled slug comes into play. At the course that I attended one of the techniques taught is a "select slug" drill that teaches the rapid switching to a slug round with a shotgun loaded with buckshot when a C zone target appears. While the approximate distances of the zones can be memorized, many of the students used the width of the thick ghost ring system front sight blade as a reference for the B/C break point but once practiced a couple of times you get a feel for when it's time to switch and it becomes automatic.

Some folks may comment at this point, "Why not just use slugs for everything and forget about buckshot" and some folks actually do that. Unfortunately, there are a couple of flies in the ointment with this approach. First, the use of buckshot is mandated by many organizations with slugs reserved for "special" use. Second, slugs will shoot clean through most soft targets so they must be employed carefully for general use.

The biggest problem with both buckshot and slugs is that their performance is highly individual weapon dependent, which brings us to the third principle.

Ammunition Selection -- http://www.frfrogspad.com/shotgun.htm

Patterns with my preferred shotgun and load at 50 yards are more open that I'd prefer but still potentially effective, given circumstances where there aren't any no-shoots nearby or downrange. At 50 yards I start losing pellets off a typical IPSC silhouette, but most of the pellets in a given load will still be on the cardboard. It's the ones that miss the intended target that cause worry though...

RMc
November 7, 2013, 07:29 AM
I will answer from a hunting perspective:

For the thick cover deer and hog hunting that is the norm for the Gulf Coast area, my favorite round is Dixie Tri-Ball buckshot. This tight patterning load shoots to the POA with the bead on a flat ( o ) sight picture of my vent rib 870 at 50 yards. Each pellet weighs 3/4th ounce.

Matthew Temkin
November 7, 2013, 09:08 AM
Hunting--Foster slug.
Home defense--20 gauge side by side with #3 buck.

hardluk1
November 7, 2013, 11:21 AM
My 12ga has carry's a full chock and has had onlyshot size used in it from my early years hunting in swamps and is very deadly on deer with its preferred 2 3/4" 1buck load at longer ranges than most think practical from a shotgun. Inside a house its pattern is more a large hole. No pattern to it.

Shawn Dodson
November 9, 2013, 09:40 AM
Federal LE132-1B 15 pellet #1 buckshot. It has features to facilitate tighter patterns than other #1 buckshot loads (hardened plated shot, shot buffering and the Flite-Control wad).

It can be purchased here, $3.99/box:
http://www.gtdist.com/ProductDetail.aspx?PartNumber=FC-LE1321B

C0untZer0
November 9, 2013, 10:29 AM
I think these tests are great:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/02/robert-farago/shotgun-penetration-with-various-rounds/

But everything seems to be penetrating a little more deeply than other similar tests I've seen.

The authors admit as much on one of the blocks.

So anyway I think their test may give shot a little more oooomph than you might see in other tests.

But in Brassfethcer's test #4 Buck did pretty good IMO, around 23 pellets penetrating over 12", around 13 pellets penetrating 14" or more and 6 pellets that penetrated 15" or more, I think a few exited the back of the block.

I'm happy with a 9mm that penetrates to 14" so I think to have 12 or 13 pellets .236" diameter penetrating to that depth has to be effective IMO.


http://www.brassfetcher.com/12%20gauge%20number%20four%20buckshot.pdf

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=508186

Shawn Dodson
November 9, 2013, 11:02 AM
Federal Premium Personal Defense #4 buck (PD156-4B) ought to perform better than the Federal PowerShok #4 buckshot load tested by BrassFetcher.

Keep in mind that BrassFetcher's test used a 24" bbl.

farscott
November 9, 2013, 11:17 AM
I voted for #4 Buck because that is why I use in my urban residence, a condo. There I want to balance penetration with concern for my neighbors. For me, #4 is a good compromise, and I get nice patterns at the ranges in which I expect to use it in the HD 870. It does seem a bit harder to find than in the past, but that may be due to the fact that I now live in areas where shotguns for deer are not very popular whereas in the past I lived in an area where deer hunting was shotgun-only.

In my main rural home, I prefer more penetration and have less concerns about neighbors due to distances. There I use #2 or #00 Buck. It patterns very well in my 870P guns, and it is readily available.

So, my real answer is, "It depends...."

Dr.Rob
November 9, 2013, 10:17 PM
Buckshot isn't legal for hunting big game here. I have slugs for that.

Winchester 2&3/4" 1oz max. 1600fps Used to get these in 15 packs at a really good price. Makes a decent 'back up' big game rifle.

HD is a 2&3/4 00 Buckshot, usually Winchester.

I bought some 3 inch Federal buffered buckshot once.. the buffering material doesn't stay in the shells and gets everywhere. I'd say the chance of that jamming up an action plus the extra recoil wasn't worth it.

Magnuumpwr
November 9, 2013, 10:23 PM
Depending on which shotgun is grabbed. 870 nitro-mag: 3 1/2" 00, I-12: 2 3/4" #2 steel, 600AT: 1 3/4" 4&1 buckshot, and the 1100 2 3/4" 00 . No loads are reduced recoil, well except for the aguilas.

Inebriated
November 9, 2013, 10:41 PM
Picked up some Brenneke KO and HD slugs today at the show. First Brenneke slugs I've seen in months. I like the HD slugs, they perform better almost all the way around than the Remington Foster slugs I used to use. So they're sitting on the side-saddle now, while the tube and chamber are still holding Federal 2-3/4" 00 Buck.

BaltimoreBoy
November 11, 2013, 07:26 PM
I voted #4 buck, but that was for SD. For hunting I would go Slug.

MTMilitiaman
November 11, 2013, 08:21 PM
Hornady eight pellet 00 buck. This load keeps all eight pellets COM out to 35 yards from the 20 inch IC bore barrel of my M590, and will put them all on a ten inch paper plate at 25 yards. That is incredible performance.

ugaarguy
November 11, 2013, 09:36 PM
Victim was hit twice with a load of #8 shot from a 12 guage pump. Both wounds appeared to be lethal in autopsy photos. Saying bird shot is not lethal because of limited penetration in gel is in my limited experience not real life.
I didn't say birdshot isn't lethal, or can't be lethal. I said it wont reliably stop a threat. If birdshot was reliably lethal on large mammals we'd use it for deer hunting. Ballistic gel isn't perfect, but it's very good at approximating wounds in human flesh, and it's repeatable.

Also, lethality and stopping a threat a two different things that unfortunately have significant overlap.

meanmrmustard
November 12, 2013, 08:44 AM
Had to vote slug. Can't hunt with buck shot in MO.

My shotty has 00 shot for HD though.

blarby
November 16, 2013, 02:36 PM
Thanks for all of the input ! Almost halfway there !

Deltaboy
November 16, 2013, 09:32 PM
HD 00 buck n slugs
Small game #4-6 shot

Captcurt
November 17, 2013, 03:28 PM
Got a hundred rounds of #4 Buck. The best surgeon in the U.S. couldn't put them back together if they were under 25 yards.

blarby
November 23, 2013, 05:11 AM
10 more days to vote ~

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